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Hitler and The Nazis Were NOT Christian!

sovereigngracereigns
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9/14/2014 7:16:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm sick and tired of hearing people claim that Hitler and the Nazis were "CHRISTIAN".

Hitler and the Nazis were AGAINST Christianity.

Even the Nazi cult called "Positive Christianity" was NOT CHRISTIANITY AT ALL!

It was a pragmatic attempt to NEUTRALIZE Christianity until it could eventually be ELIMINATED from Germany.

From Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org...) :

"...Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.
To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Christianity and is considered apostasy by Catholics and Protestants......"


".......Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity, and historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterise his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and involvement in religious policy as driven by opportunism, and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany....."


".....The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".
Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.
During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches....."



".....Leading Nazis like Himmler, Rosenberg, Bormann and Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianize Germany. However, Germany had been Christian for over a thousand years, and Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "


So there you have it.

The Nazis were FAR FROM "CHRISTIAN."

They were absolutely AGAINST Christianity.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/15/2014 1:54:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
WRONG!

Anyone can understand why a Christian would have a strong interest in claiming that Hitler wasn't a Christian, but the plain fact of the matter is that he was a Christian, and openly declared himself to be.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." - Adolf Hitler, [personal letter to Gerhard Engel, 1941]

Hitler also declared that he considered that he was continuing the fight against the Jews, which he believed was started by Jesus.

"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude." - Adolf Hitler, [Christmas Party, 1926]

But even more interesting than Hitler's personal beliefs, were the reactions of other Christians. It should be noted that Hitler didn't take Germany by force. He was voted into office by a population of mostly Christians. And what about the upper clergy members of the church? Cardinal Michael Faulhaber was a personal friend of Hitler's and one of the few allowed to visit Hitler in his private hide-aways. He reported back to the German people that Hitler, was most certainly, "a man of God".

So here we have someone who is supposed to be very well studied, who you might well expect would realize the treatment of the Jews and the attempt at world domination weren't exactly "Christian values", and yet, he remained a personal friend to Hitler and insisted he was a good Catholic.

And what of the pope? In 1939, Hitler unwittingly defeated an assassination attempt in Munich. The pope responded by sending Hitler personal congratulations, while Hitler declared his save escape to be a sign of Providence. Apparently, the pope agreed.

So, nice try, but not only did Hitler consider himself a good Catholic, but the Christian population of Germany, as well as the upper clergy members of the Catholic church, also considered him to be a good Catholic, and a proper Christian... despite his barbaric and horrific acts.

When you worship a barbaric tyrant God, it becomes difficult to recognize that barbaric tyrants are not worthy of worship.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/15/2014 4:20:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 1:54:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
WRONG!

Anyone can understand why a Christian would have a strong interest in claiming that Hitler wasn't a Christian, but the plain fact of the matter is that he was a Christian, and openly declared himself to be.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." - Adolf Hitler, [personal letter to Gerhard Engel, 1941]

May we see a photocopy of that letter? I thought not.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/15/2014 5:00:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 4:20:27 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/15/2014 1:54:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
WRONG!

Anyone can understand why a Christian would have a strong interest in claiming that Hitler wasn't a Christian, but the plain fact of the matter is that he was a Christian, and openly declared himself to be.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." - Adolf Hitler, [personal letter to Gerhard Engel, 1941]

May we see a photocopy of that letter? I thought not.

I have the original.

But like god, only true believers can read it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 5:09:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/14/2014 7:16:36 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I'm sick and tired of hearing people claim that Hitler and the Nazis were "CHRISTIAN".

Hitler and the Nazis were AGAINST Christianity.

Even the Nazi cult called "Positive Christianity" was NOT CHRISTIANITY AT ALL!

It was a pragmatic attempt to NEUTRALIZE Christianity until it could eventually be ELIMINATED from Germany.

From Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org...) :

"...Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.
To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Christianity and is considered apostasy by Catholics and Protestants......"


".......Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity, and historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterise his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and involvement in religious policy as driven by opportunism, and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany....."


".....The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".
Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.
During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches....."



".....Leading Nazis like Himmler, Rosenberg, Bormann and Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianize Germany. However, Germany had been Christian for over a thousand years, and Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "


So there you have it.

The Nazis were FAR FROM "CHRISTIAN."

They were absolutely AGAINST Christianity.

Do you really expect the trolls of atheism to acknowledge real history?

At some point you just have to accept that the claims are not being made for rational reasons. And if its a fundamentally irrational position, blind animus to religion, then it simply makes sense to call it what it is: bigotry.

Is social darwinism anywhere in Christianity? Of course not. ALL men are created as loved children of God.

Is social darwinism the driving force of Nazism? Obviously.

That some people would deny the obvious truth?

That is because the claim is an obvious fallacy.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

Its a common variation of the guilt by association fallacy. The same template the bigots of atheism will reject when we point out that Stalin, Mao, etc happened to be atheist. Its just a double standard with no bearing in history. Some people are just beyond reason, and if they think debauching history to fallaciously poison religion makes them look like anything other than tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts? Let them.

Their argumentation exposes them. All you can do is calmly point out facts, and eventually they will be reduced to the hateful base when they are reduced to personally insulting you. Any pretend of rationalism in the position, obviously fallacious on the merits, is removed. Job done.

Again, not all atheists are bigots, but the ones reduced to pedantically playing the Hitler card, followed by emotive screeching and cherry picking of evidence, most definitely are.

Let's just call a spade a spade here. Bigotry is not rational, and you will not 'convert' a bigot with reasoning. You most certainly can expose them for what they are though.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:09:10 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/14/2014 7:16:36 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I'm sick and tired of hearing people claim that Hitler and the Nazis were "CHRISTIAN".

Hitler and the Nazis were AGAINST Christianity.

Even the Nazi cult called "Positive Christianity" was NOT CHRISTIANITY AT ALL!

It was a pragmatic attempt to NEUTRALIZE Christianity until it could eventually be ELIMINATED from Germany.

From Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org...) :

"...Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.
To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Christianity and is considered apostasy by Catholics and Protestants......"


".......Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity, and historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterise his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and involvement in religious policy as driven by opportunism, and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany....."


".....The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".
Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.
During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches....."



".....Leading Nazis like Himmler, Rosenberg, Bormann and Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianize Germany. However, Germany had been Christian for over a thousand years, and Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "


So there you have it.

The Nazis were FAR FROM "CHRISTIAN."

They were absolutely AGAINST Christianity.

Do you really expect the trolls of atheism to acknowledge real history?

At some point you just have to accept that the claims are not being made for rational reasons. And if its a fundamentally irrational position, blind animus to religion, then it simply makes sense to call it what it is: bigotry.

Is social darwinism anywhere in Christianity? Of course not. ALL men are created as loved children of God.

Is social darwinism the driving force of Nazism? Obviously.

That some people would deny the obvious truth?

That is because the claim is an obvious fallacy.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

Its a common variation of the guilt by association fallacy. The same template the bigots of atheism will reject when we point out that Stalin, Mao, etc happened to be atheist. Its just a double standard with no bearing in history. Some people are just beyond reason, and if they think debauching history to fallaciously poison religion makes them look like anything other than tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts? Let them.

Their argumentation exposes them. All you can do is calmly point out facts, and eventually they will be reduced to the hateful base when they are reduced to personally insulting you. Any pretend of rationalism in the position, obviously fallacious on the merits, is removed. Job done.

Again, not all atheists are bigots, but the ones reduced to pedantically playing the Hitler card, followed by emotive screeching and cherry picking of evidence, most definitely are.

Let's just call a spade a spade here. Bigotry is not rational, and you will not 'convert' a bigot with reasoning. You most certainly can expose them for what they are though.

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

It doesn't get any scarier on the internet.

But then, it is an apt demonstration of those who would play the Hilter Card - abusive stalker types.

Need I say more.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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9/15/2014 5:41:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is this really the only thing you all have to do?
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 5:44:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:41:57 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Is this really the only thing you all have to do?

Is this a relevant question?

If you don't want to participate, don't.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/15/2014 6:53:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

It doesn't get any scarier on the internet.

But then, it is an apt demonstration of those who would play the Hilter Card - abusive stalker types.

Need I say more.

I'll tell you again, as I have ad infitinum, I wouldn't stalk you if you were the hottest porn star in the world. You aren't worth it.

I respond to posts on a public forum, as is my right.

For you to consider my responses to your posts as stalking says a lot more about either your paranoia or associated insecurities.

Ya see mate, I have as much right to respond to you're posts as you have to respond to everyone elses.

And despite your LIES I have reviewed the communications I have had with airmax and I have never been told to stay away from you.

Which would of course be incompatible with the way airmax allows this forum to run anyway.

Feel free to check.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 6:56:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 6:53:11 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

It doesn't get any scarier on the internet.

But then, it is an apt demonstration of those who would play the Hilter Card - abusive stalker types.

Need I say more.

I'll tell you again, as I have ad infitinum, I wouldn't stalk you if you were the hottest porn star in the world. You aren't worth it.

And yetm you follow me around the forum insulting me, setting me up with stupid inane comments, and then just flame away ... with


I respond to posts on a public forum, as is my right.


The excuse to keep doing it anyway. I'm not stalking you! It's my right to follow you around and insult you! Even though you are attempting to avoid me and are telling me this (as are several posters and the mods).

What is the discussion? And others ARE discussing it?

And are you particpating? Or purusing a personal vendetta.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/15/2014 7:06:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let's try it again good sir and this time try to respond to everything, a new experience perhaps?

I'll tell you again, as I have ad infitinum, I wouldn't stalk you if you were the hottest porn star in the world. You aren't worth it.

I respond to posts on a public forum, as is my right.

For you to consider my responses to your posts as stalking says a lot more about either your paranoia or associated insecurities.

Ya see mate, I have as much right to respond to you're posts as you have to respond to everyone elses.

And despite your LIES I have reviewed the communications I have had with airmax and I have never been told to stay away from you.

Which would of course be incompatible with the way airmax allows this forum to run anyway.

Feel free to check.

You can stop your lies regarding me being ordered to stay away from you or I will spend as long as it takes to have your lies stopped.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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9/15/2014 7:07:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

Bulproof posted first in this thread (post #5). You followed him. How is that stalking?

Need I say more.

You would be doing us all a favour if you said much, much less.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 5:00:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/15/2014 4:20:27 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/15/2014 1:54:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
WRONG!

Anyone can understand why a Christian would have a strong interest in claiming that Hitler wasn't a Christian, but the plain fact of the matter is that he was a Christian, and openly declared himself to be.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." - Adolf Hitler, [personal letter to Gerhard Engel, 1941]

May we see a photocopy of that letter? I thought not.

I have the original.

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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9/15/2014 8:10:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.

Hitler was a Christian. The world is not shocked.

If you bother to look, you'll find Hitler publicly affirmed his faith in his books, speeches and notes.

http://www.nobeliefs.com...
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 8:18:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 7:07:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

Bulproof posted first in this thread (post #5). You followed him. How is that stalking?

Need I say more.

You would be doing us all a favour if you said much, much less.

You may want to see who bulproof responded to.

I ignore him completely, not check to see if he proceeded to me. I responded to the OP.

That my comment was picked up unilaterally by the stalker, rather than ignored as I do him is the point.

As ethan pointed out ... I am glad I know have the dynaic duo following me around not actually participating in the discussion - its just all personal.

And its solved if bully boy just ignores me as I do him - as I have asked him. Pretty simple.

Trolling breeds trolling - thanks for the proof dee.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 8:28:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:10:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.

Hitler was a Christian. The world is not shocked.

If you bother to look, you'll find Hitler publicly affirmed his faith in his books, speeches and notes.

http://www.nobeliefs.com...

Addressed in OP.

Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "
neutral
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9/15/2014 8:39:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:28:14 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:10:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.

Hitler was a Christian. The world is not shocked.

If you bother to look, you'll find Hitler publicly affirmed his faith in his books, speeches and notes.

http://www.nobeliefs.com...

Addressed in OP.

Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "

Sorry wrong quote.

".......Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity, and historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterise his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and involvement in religious policy as driven by opportunism, and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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9/15/2014 8:41:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:18:06 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:07:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

Bulproof posted first in this thread (post #5). You followed him. How is that stalking?

Need I say more.

You would be doing us all a favour if you said much, much less.

You may want to see who bulproof responded to.
Yep it was not YOU.
I ignore him completely, not check to see if he proceeded to me. I responded to the OP.
You ignore me by "jumpng into a thread", I think is your claim , and then accusing me of stalking. That takes a certain level of problems.
That my comment was picked up unilaterally by the stalker, rather than ignored as I do him is the point.
You responded to my post, I didn't respond to yours.
What is it about that, that you don't understand?
As ethan pointed out ... I am glad I know have the dynaic duo following me around not actually participating in the discussion - its just all personal.
Again! Can you make this understandable?
And its solved if bully boy just ignores me as I do him - as I have asked him. Pretty simple.
I'm sorry sweety, but as I have already told you, it was you who responded to my post
Trolling breeds trolling - thanks for the proof dee.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/15/2014 8:44:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:41:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:18:06 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:07:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

Bulproof posted first in this thread (post #5). You followed him. How is that stalking?

Need I say more.

You would be doing us all a favour if you said much, much less.

You may want to see who bulproof responded to.
Yep it was not YOU.
I ignore him completely, not check to see if he proceeded to me. I responded to the OP.
You ignore me by "jumpng into a thread", I think is your claim , and then accusing me of stalking. That takes a certain level of problems.
That my comment was picked up unilaterally by the stalker, rather than ignored as I do him is the point.
You responded to my post, I didn't respond to yours.
What is it about that, that you don't understand?
As ethan pointed out ... I am glad I know have the dynaic duo following me around not actually participating in the discussion - its just all personal.
Again! Can you make this understandable?
And its solved if bully boy just ignores me as I do him - as I have asked him. Pretty simple.
I'm sorry sweety, but as I have already told you, it was you who responded to my post
Trolling breeds trolling - thanks for the proof dee.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, Post #7 is not in response to me? Seriously?

Evidence proves you a liar - I responded after reading Beasty's post. Period.

Your I skip until and unless you hit mine - and occassionally when I see you locked in stupidity with other posters ... whom you are also not stalking or fighting with.

And again, its great that you have even once addressed a point about Social Darwinism rather than play this petty trolling game of yours.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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9/15/2014 8:48:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:28:14 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:10:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.

Hitler was a Christian. The world is not shocked.

If you bother to look, you'll find Hitler publicly affirmed his faith in his books, speeches and notes.

http://www.nobeliefs.com...

Addressed in OP.

Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "

What wasn't addressed was the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

The quote from wiki "Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity ..." does not necessarily mean Hitler was anti-Christian from his own perspective, but more along the lines from a retrospective look he was hostile to the Christian doctrines that he disagreed with and the overall message of today's 'God loves everybody' interpretation. Just because the religion was co-opted and twisted from more orthodox interpretations does not mean the Nazi's weren't Christian. Has even you have said neutral, even the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian despite their highly unorthodox beliefs.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/15/2014 9:01:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/14/2014 7:16:36 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I'm sick and tired of hearing people claim that Hitler and the Nazis were "CHRISTIAN".

Hitler and the Nazis were AGAINST Christianity.

Even the Nazi cult called "Positive Christianity" was NOT CHRISTIANITY AT ALL!

It was a pragmatic attempt to NEUTRALIZE Christianity until it could eventually be ELIMINATED from Germany.

From Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org...) :

"...Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.
To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Christianity and is considered apostasy by Catholics and Protestants......"


".......Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity, and historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterise his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and involvement in religious policy as driven by opportunism, and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany....."


".....The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".
Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.
During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches....."



".....Leading Nazis like Himmler, Rosenberg, Bormann and Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianize Germany. However, Germany had been Christian for over a thousand years, and Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "


So there you have it.

The Nazis were FAR FROM "CHRISTIAN."

They were absolutely AGAINST Christianity.

So what? Neither are many millions of people who claim to be truly Christian today eitehr.

Why?

Because most of their teachers teach lies.
neutral
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9/15/2014 9:04:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:48:56 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:28:14 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:10:52 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:

Could you post it for us? I think if someone possesses an actual statement from Hitler confirming his Christianity, the world will be shocked.

Hitler was a Christian. The world is not shocked.

If you bother to look, you'll find Hitler publicly affirmed his faith in his books, speeches and notes.

http://www.nobeliefs.com...

Addressed in OP.

Hitler recognized the practical reality of the political significance of the Churches in Germany and determined that any moves against the churches must be made in stages.... "

What wasn't addressed was the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

The quote from wiki "Hitler himself was hostile to Christianity ..." does not necessarily mean Hitler was anti-Christian from his own perspective, but more along the lines from a retrospective look he was hostile to the Christian doctrines that he disagreed with and the overall message of today's 'God loves everybody' interpretation. Just because the religion was co-opted and twisted from more orthodox interpretations does not mean the Nazi's weren't Christian. Has even you have said neutral, even the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian despite their highly unorthodox beliefs.

The issue has been, though not admittedly in response to you.

#1 - Hilter's interaction with Christianity was political in nature and manipulative. For example, he put Protestants and Catholic into position sof animus, very similiar to what Saddam Hussein did with Suna/Shia

#2 - The guiding ideology of Nazism, also in the OP, was Social Darwinism. This is the driving force behind Nazi Germany and reflects in their world view and conduct of policy - both internal and external - the viciousness of the Eastern front againt inferior Slavs, for example, contratss noteably with the 'superior' Western ethnicities.

In short, Hitler certainly used Christiniaty to selectively manipulate the political process, but its an illusion to that that Hitler was Christian or atheist. He was a blind bigot.
bulproof
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9/15/2014 9:09:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 8:44:42 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:41:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/15/2014 8:18:06 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 7:07:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:37:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 5:30:50 AM, bulproof wrote:

The Godwins Law champion accuses others of playing the Hitler card.

It doesn't get any funnier.

The the forum stalker is following me around and insulting me against me wishes ... again.

Bulproof posted first in this thread (post #5). You followed him. How is that stalking?

Need I say more.

You would be doing us all a favour if you said much, much less.

You may want to see who bulproof responded to.
Yep it was not YOU.
I ignore him completely, not check to see if he proceeded to me. I responded to the OP.
You ignore me by "jumpng into a thread", I think is your claim , and then accusing me of stalking. That takes a certain level of problems.
That my comment was picked up unilaterally by the stalker, rather than ignored as I do him is the point.
You responded to my post, I didn't respond to yours.
What is it about that, that you don't understand?
As ethan pointed out ... I am glad I know have the dynaic duo following me around not actually participating in the discussion - its just all personal.
Again! Can you make this understandable?
And its solved if bully boy just ignores me as I do him - as I have asked him. Pretty simple.
I'm sorry sweety, but as I have already told you, it was you who responded to my post
Trolling breeds trolling - thanks for the proof dee.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, Post #7 is not in response to me? Seriously?
Yes I did and I replied to your claim of nazism, which is one reason you attacked me rather than respond to the points provided.
Evidence proves you a liar - I responded after reading Beasty's post. Period.
What you responded to is irrelevant when you use nazi's as your justification and when called on it start crying to mummy.
Your I skip until and unless you hit mine - and occassionally when I see you locked in stupidity with other posters ... whom you are also not stalking or fighting with.
This "para" is meaningless, as are most of your erstwhile paragraphs.
And again, its great that you have even once addressed a point about Social Darwinism rather than play this petty trolling game of yours.

Social Darwinism has absolutely nothing to do with with whether the leaders of nazism were christian.

History RECORDS that they were. Even someone such as you should understand that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
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9/15/2014 9:26:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 9:04:55 AM, neutral wrote:


#1 - Hilter's interaction with Christianity was political in nature and manipulative. For example, he put Protestants and Catholic into position sof animus, very similiar to what Saddam Hussein did with Suna/Shia

I'd argue most use of religion is political and manipulative, but that doesn't mean those who use religion as a tool don't also prescribe to its doctrines. Pitting Catholics and Protestants against each other is not evidence that Hitler wasn't a Christian. Hitler wanted Germany to accept his third path, so having the 2 main branches squabble would help this aim.

Saddam was a Muslim, not a good Muslim by their standards, but a professed Muslim none the less. Just as Hitler was at least a professed Christian. Given that we can't read his mind we can only go by historical evidence, speeches, books etc. and they point to his belief in Christianity.

#2 - The guiding ideology of Nazism, also in the OP, was Social Darwinism. This is the driving force behind Nazi Germany and reflects in their world view and conduct of policy - both internal and external - the viciousness of the Eastern front againt inferior Slavs, for example, contratss noteably with the 'superior' Western ethnicities.

Being a social Darwinist, or a racist, does not exclude being a Christian. In the antebellum south there were many slave holders who also held Bibles and also believed in their innate racial superiority. They were still Christian. Or at least like Hitler, they claimed they were Christian.
neutral
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9/15/2014 9:30:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 9:09:00 AM, bulproof wrote:

Oh, Post #7 is not in response to me? Seriously?
Yes I did and I replied to your claim of nazism, which is one reason you attacked me rather than respond to the points provided.

You are delusional. How is avoiding you equate to you being attacked? You responded to me ... and are claiming that your response to me was an attack on you?

Evidence proves you a liar - I responded after reading Beasty's post. Period.
What you responded to is irrelevant when you use nazi's as your justification and when called on it start crying to mummy.

When I see atheists deliberaly getting Christianity wrong, yes that is like Nazi's talking about Jews - who ALSO deliberately get it wrong. There are several open bigots who are atheists on this forum - who have NO INTENTION of getting things correct.

That is EXACTLY like what Nazis write of Jews.

Have you addressed dee-um factually incorrect statements? Offered up an tangible thoughts about why so many atheists respond to questions aimed at Christians? Deliberately incorrectly? Why you, beasty, dee-um, IG, run around teh forum flaming peoel as rapists, genocidal morons - and with stupiod frivilous accusations of comprehension problems?

No, YOUR solution is to not address a point in the correct thread, its to find an excuse to pursue a nakedly aggressive personalized issue.

Most people, seeing a potential contradiction ASK the question. They do not stalk people around a forum attacking them because they have lame exucse they don;t actually want to discuss.

And of course, when Christians point out that Hitler was technically an atheist based on his Darwinistic claims, people like me point out Social Darwinism, and people like you screm bloody victim - because it give you the use to go ballistic.

Just stay away.

Really, the stupidiy of demanding answers from people, which are all immediately dismissed as insults anyone, so can play victim (standard flame bait), and then run around demanding people respond to you anyway? Which then become insults ...

The dysfunctional abuse cycle of the internet troll.

Just stay away. Problem solved.
neutral
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9/15/2014 9:35:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 9:26:27 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/15/2014 9:04:55 AM, neutral wrote:


#1 - Hilter's interaction with Christianity was political in nature and manipulative. For example, he put Protestants and Catholic into position sof animus, very similiar to what Saddam Hussein did with Suna/Shia

I'd argue most use of religion is political and manipulative, but that doesn't mean those who use religion as a tool don't also prescribe to its doctrines. Pitting Catholics and Protestants against each other is not evidence that Hitler wasn't a Christian. Hitler wanted Germany to accept his third path, so having the 2 main branches squabble would help this aim.

Saddam was a Muslim, not a good Muslim by their standards, but a professed Muslim none the less. Just as Hitler was at least a professed Christian. Given that we can't read his mind we can only go by historical evidence, speeches, books etc. and they point to his belief in Christianity.

#2 - The guiding ideology of Nazism, also in the OP, was Social Darwinism. This is the driving force behind Nazi Germany and reflects in their world view and conduct of policy - both internal and external - the viciousness of the Eastern front againt inferior Slavs, for example, contratss noteably with the 'superior' Western ethnicities.

Being a social Darwinist, or a racist, does not exclude being a Christian. In the antebellum south there were many slave holders who also held Bibles and also believed in their innate racial superiority. They were still Christian. Or at least like Hitler, they claimed they were Christian.

No, but adhereing to Paganist ideologies outside of Christianity does. The Order of the Deaths Head, etc.

Commandment #1.

Could we get very technical about him 'being' a Christian? I suppose so, but any claim that this is what influenced his murderous tendancy is just pure flame bait - same as drawing n these paganistic tendancies in Nazism to make Hilter an atheist, which I suppose we can make the same 'technicality' claim by cherry picking data points as well.

What would it prove? Other than our ability to cherry pick pieces to support a view that is ... inaccurate? In order to ... flame a group of people we disagree with?

It makes no sense.

the appeal to hitler does not work in general - work very well with bigots openly engaged in hateful misrepresentation.
bulproof
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9/15/2014 9:53:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 9:30:38 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/15/2014 9:09:00 AM, bulproof wrote:

Oh, Post #7 is not in response to me? Seriously?
Yes I did and I replied to your claim of nazism, which is one reason you attacked me rather than respond to the points provided.

You are delusional. How is avoiding you equate to you being attacked? You responded to me ... and are claiming that your response to me was an attack on you?
I know that this is pointless, but here goes.
Quote where I claimed you were attacking me. This of course will be ignored.
Evidence proves you a liar - I responded after reading Beasty's post. Period.
What you responded to is irrelevant when you use nazi's as your justification and when called on it start crying to mummy.

When I see atheists deliberaly getting Christianity wrong, yes that is like Nazi's talking about Jews - who ALSO deliberately get it wrong. There are several open bigots who are atheists on this forum - who have NO INTENTION of getting things correct.
Produce evidence of your contentions here.
That is EXACTLY like what Nazis write of Jews.
What has this to do with our "discussion"?
Have you addressed dee-um factually incorrect statements? Offered up an tangible thoughts about why so many atheists respond to questions aimed at Christians? Deliberately incorrectly? Why you, beasty, dee-um, IG, run around teh forum flaming peoel as rapists, genocidal morons - and with stupiod frivilous accusations of comprehension problems?
Here's your chance to actually supply those quotes of incorrect and inflammatory statements. All you need to do is produce a post quoting all of these claims you make and we can all discuss them.
No, YOUR solution is to not address a point in the correct thread, its to find an excuse to pursue a nakedly aggressive personalized issue.
I haven't been aggressive to you since airmax asked me to tone down my posts, What you mean by the wrong thread is beyond my comprehension.
Most people, seeing a potential contradiction ASK the question. They do not stalk people around a forum attacking them because they have lame exucse they don;t actually want to discuss.
You , in my experience, have never, ever answered a question put to you by either theist or atheist. I've been very honest about your insecure stalking claims, please drop that insanity if you wish to be taken even sub seriously.
And of course, when Christians point out that Hitler was technically an atheist based on his Darwinistic claims, people like me point out Social Darwinism, and people like you screm bloody victim - because it give you the use to go ballistic.
Hitler was, as recorded in written history, a catholic. The pathetic attempts by xtians to deny that is really pathetic. Only the seriously unaware of history could possibly believe such nonsense. Why don't you lot just accept the truth?
Just stay away.
I've told you about that.
Really, the stupidiy of demanding answers from people, which are all immediately dismissed as insults anyone, so can play victim (standard flame bait), and then run around demanding people respond to you anyway? Which then become insults ...
If your responses are in fact just abusive insults, then that is what they are. Most people on here understand that and your attempts to evade that are even more pathetic than your insults.
The dysfunctional abuse cycle of the internet troll.
You need to believe that for the simple reason that you can't respond on my level of intelligence to the positions, questions and refutations I make.
Just stay away. Problem solved.
I've told you about that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
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9/15/2014 9:55:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 9:35:30 AM, neutral wrote:

No, but adhereing to Paganist ideologies outside of Christianity does. The Order of the Deaths Head, etc.

Christianity itself is an amalgamation of pagan rituals/beliefs. Hitler was trying to reinterpret Christianity, so using outside material could be consider a new Nazi testament. But if you're going to criticize the use of paganism as a litmus test to disbar Christians, Martin Luther has already disavowed all of Catholicism as non-Christian (worshiping saints, the pope etc.).

Could we get very technical about him 'being' a Christian? I suppose so, but any claim that this is what influenced his murderous tendancy is just pure flame bait

Yes I agree, but the point of this forum is to ask "Was Hitler a Christian?" not "Was Christianity the reason for Hitlers violence?" The answers of course being 'yes' to the former and 'no, but it made a great tool' for the latter.

same as drawing n these paganistic tendancies in Nazism to make Hilter an atheist, which I suppose we can make the same 'technicality' claim by cherry picking data points as well.

Proving Hitler had paganistic tendencies would not prove Hitler was a atheist, it would prove he was a pagan.

the appeal to hitler does not work in general - work very well with bigots openly engaged in hateful misrepresentation.

The point of this forum is to talk about Hitler and to deny that the appeal to Hitler does not work against Christianity. But there's evidence to show Hitler was a Christian so at least we can say Hitler does not make a good poster child for Christianity.