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These Bible Studies Seem to Miss the Point

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/18/2014 10:51:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Even if:

1. Jesus Existed
2. Noah's Flood really happened
3. We could verify Jesus Walked on Water....
4. Turned water into wine
5. Rose from the dead
6. Ascended/Floated to the sky
7. The Bible really was the best possible scripture
8. The Bible really did contain true prophecies, and ALL prophecies within it were true
9. Moses parted the oceans
10. Humans once lived for hundreds of years

Etc.

Even if these facts were 100% true, it would in no way affirm that a God, let alone a Christian God etc would exist. Because God necessarily is the least likely epistemic possibility, and ANY physical explanation, including ones we don't know about yet would be by default a more likely explanation if it explains the facts. Indeed many such explanations can be concocted, visiting aliens for one would be capable of explaining everything we see within the bible, including the first chapters of Genesis (!). There is simply no way to justify the facts of the Bible, even if true, with the metaphysical claims, that a God exists. Indeed such acts would indistinguishable from virtually any more advanced non-deistic consciousness, including today's humans & our current technology.

No apologist, let alone historian/scientist/philosopher/whatever gets even remotely close to demonstrating this much of the bible/quran/etc to be true, but even if they did it wouldn't prove what they want to prove.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/18/2014 11:13:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 10:51:37 AM, Envisage wrote:
Even if:

1. Jesus Existed
2. Noah's Flood really happened
3. We could verify Jesus Walked on Water....
4. Turned water into wine
5. Rose from the dead
6. Ascended/Floated to the sky
7. The Bible really was the best possible scripture
8. The Bible really did contain true prophecies, and ALL prophecies within it were true
9. Moses parted the oceans
10. Humans once lived for hundreds of years

Etc.

Even if these facts were 100% true, it would in no way affirm that a God, let alone a Christian God etc would exist. Because God necessarily is the least likely epistemic possibility, and ANY physical explanation, including ones we don't know about yet would be by default a more likely explanation if it explains the facts. Indeed many such explanations can be concocted, visiting aliens for one would be capable of explaining everything we see within the bible, including the first chapters of Genesis (!). There is simply no way to justify the facts of the Bible, even if true, with the metaphysical claims, that a God exists. Indeed such acts would indistinguishable from virtually any more advanced non-deistic consciousness, including today's humans & our current technology.

No apologist, let alone historian/scientist/philosopher/whatever gets even remotely close to demonstrating this much of the bible/quran/etc to be true, but even if they did it wouldn't prove what they want to prove.

Some people believe they are Superman after reading a Superman comic book, too.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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9/18/2014 12:22:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 10:51:37 AM, Envisage wrote:
Even if:

1. Jesus Existed
2. Noah's Flood really happened
3. We could verify Jesus Walked on Water....
4. Turned water into wine
5. Rose from the dead
6. Ascended/Floated to the sky
7. The Bible really was the best possible scripture
8. The Bible really did contain true prophecies, and ALL prophecies within it were true
9. Moses parted the oceans
10. Humans once lived for hundreds of years

Etc.

Even if these facts were 100% true, it would in no way affirm that a God, let alone a Christian God etc would exist. Because God necessarily is the least likely epistemic possibility,

What? Why would you think that?

and ANY physical explanation, including ones we don't know about yet would be by default a more likely explanation if it explains the facts.

No.

Indeed many such explanations can be concocted, visiting aliens for one would be capable of explaining everything we see within the bible, including the first chapters of Genesis (!). There is simply no way to justify the facts of the Bible, even if true, with the metaphysical claims, that a God exists. Indeed such acts would indistinguishable from virtually any more advanced non-deistic consciousness, including today's humans & our current technology.

No apologist, let alone historian/scientist/philosopher/whatever gets even remotely close to demonstrating this much of the bible/quran/etc to be true, but even if they did it wouldn't prove what they want to prove.

Well, yeah, if you have unreasonable standards nothing will EVER come close to being "demonstrated" to you.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/18/2014 12:37:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 12:22:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/18/2014 10:51:37 AM, Envisage wrote:
Even if:

1. Jesus Existed
2. Noah's Flood really happened
3. We could verify Jesus Walked on Water....
4. Turned water into wine
5. Rose from the dead
6. Ascended/Floated to the sky
7. The Bible really was the best possible scripture
8. The Bible really did contain true prophecies, and ALL prophecies within it were true
9. Moses parted the oceans
10. Humans once lived for hundreds of years

Etc.

Even if these facts were 100% true, it would in no way affirm that a God, let alone a Christian God etc would exist. Because God necessarily is the least likely epistemic possibility,

What? Why would you think that?

Because proposing metaphysical entities which violate every single our known conceptions of what occurs within the physical world in every single way (omnipotence? omniscience? disembodied mind? existing external to spacetime?), to explain any physical phenomenon is bottom of the bucket. Every single attribute is of questionable coherence, and metaphysical possibility.

and ANY physical explanation, including ones we don't know about yet would be by default a more likely explanation if it explains the facts.

No.

Bayes Theorum is probably a better way of demonstrating this.

Indeed many such explanations can be concocted, visiting aliens for one would be capable of explaining everything we see within the bible, including the first chapters of Genesis (!). There is simply no way to justify the facts of the Bible, even if true, with the metaphysical claims, that a God exists. Indeed such acts would indistinguishable from virtually any more advanced non-deistic consciousness, including today's humans & our current technology.

No apologist, let alone historian/scientist/philosopher/whatever gets even remotely close to demonstrating this much of the bible/quran/etc to be true, but even if they did it wouldn't prove what they want to prove.

Well, yeah, if you have unreasonable standards nothing will EVER come close to being "demonstrated" to you.

I don't think there is a such thing as an unreasonable standard in this case, when we are making an empirical justification for a most extreme metaphysical claim, a strong case can be made that God (even if he exists) is unknowable by empirical methods (which would be the case of using the bible, as an inference to the best explanation).

But this misses the point, the hypothetical I gave is prima facie physically possible (we know physical life exists, and that technology rapidly progresses), which is a significant advantage over the God Hypothesis in explaining the facts of the bible, even if completely true. God has yet to be demonstrated to be more than epistemically possible (i.e. it's not known if it's objectively possible within this world). Which is the point of my post, any explanation that is physically possible is going to have a significant advantage over God.
jh1234lnew
Posts: 225
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9/18/2014 2:41:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 10:51:37 AM, Envisage wrote:
Even if:

1. Jesus Existed
2. Noah's Flood really happened
3. We could verify Jesus Walked on Water....
4. Turned water into wine
5. Rose from the dead
6. Ascended/Floated to the sky
7. The Bible really was the best possible scripture
8. The Bible really did contain true prophecies, and ALL prophecies within it were true
9. Moses parted the oceans
10. Humans once lived for hundreds of years

Etc.

Even if these facts were 100% true, it would in no way affirm that a God, let alone a Christian God etc would exist. Because God necessarily is the least likely epistemic possibility, and ANY physical explanation, including ones we don't know about yet would be by default a more likely explanation if it explains the facts. Indeed many such explanations can be concocted, visiting aliens for one would be capable of explaining everything we see within the bible, including the first chapters of Genesis (!). There is simply no way to justify the facts of the Bible, even if true, with the metaphysical claims, that a God exists. Indeed such acts would indistinguishable from virtually any more advanced non-deistic consciousness, including today's humans & our current technology.

No apologist, let alone historian/scientist/philosopher/whatever gets even remotely close to demonstrating this much of the bible/quran/etc to be true, but even if they did it wouldn't prove what they want to prove.

Bible studies focus more on the intepretation rather than factuality of the Bible as all of the participants already believe in it, meaning that it is unecessary as all of the people in the bible study class all agree that the Bible is true.