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Exclusive Understanding

Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/18/2014 6:00:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christians really need to let this one go. Many Christians love to pretend that, as Christians, they have an exclusive understanding of the Bible. They parade this unearned arrogance by attempting to explain the Bible to all non-Christians. Well, that's just horse-pucky.

Here is the reality. Christianity currently has more than 38,000 different denominations - ALL based upon the Bible. What this demonstrates is an extreme LACK of understanding. Christians need to accept that having 38,000 DIFFERENT interpretations, does NOT indicate understanding. It shows a rather extreme misunderstanding.

And why is this? It's because Christians read the Bible with an extreme bias and pre-conceptions. Pre-conceptions rarely assist anyone in attaining an accurate understanding of anything. Non-Christians are free to simply read what the book says. When it says something absurd, it's due to the fact that the men who wrote the various texts - and those who selected them - had very limited knowledge. They were highly ignorant, and thus wrote and selected, highly ignorant statements. But in light of our knowledge today, these things are instantly noticed for their ignorance. And anyone who reads the Bible honestly, can simply accept that.

But a Christian can't allow themselves to understand what the Bible says. They HAVE to try to change it to say what they expect it to say. They're assured that the Bible is the word of God, and that God is loving, compassionate, benevolent and caring. So when they read about God demanding the deaths of infants, the slaughter of children the raping of women and the destruction - even of animals - simply because they belong to "evil" people, they have to try to wedge, hammer, twist and distort this into their preconceived notions about a caring, loving, compassionate, benevolent God. And obviously, the two things don't fit.

So recognize that you've limited your ability to understand, by adopting a preconception which simply DOES NOT fit with the writings of the Bible. It's time that Christians understand that they are the ones with the least understanding of the Bible, because they simply won't accept what the book says. They will only accept what they want it to say. They'll ignore entire verses, play word-substitution games, assert that anything which is demonstrably wrong is a metaphor, and scream "CONTEXT!" as though that somehow changes beating a slave to death, into a compassionate, loving, benevolent act. It doesn't.

The people who DO NOT understand the Bible, are those who will only allow it to say what they want it to say. And the only people who do that, are Christians. You prevent yourself from understanding the Bible, because you don't want it to say what it says.

So don't try to tell those who read it objectively, what it says. They know what it says. YOU don't!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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9/18/2014 7:42:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The nine-year old boy atheist continues to parade his ignorance of Christians and Christianity. He never learns as his prejudices won't let him that he is attacking only traditional Pauline Christianity which isn't Christianity but mostly Paul's theology. He never addresses the Gnostic Christianity that possessed the core of real Christian theology based on Knowledge of God instead of blind faith in liars and their stories. And lo and behold! Historical science, God's real revelators, shows the Gnostics had it right all along not to trust Bible authority as Bible authority has collapsed with historical discovery of the ruses and fables of the writers of the Torah/Tanakh.

Beast, why don't you ever learn? You need to be a bully everyday attacking Pauline Christians and what is the point of it? You are as ignorant as any Pauline Christian about the Bible and waste everyone's time beating your dead horses that atheists have been flogging for eons, all of you unable to overcome your prejudiced views to actually learn the real ins and outs of what you are so riled up about.
bulproof
Posts: 25,260
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9/18/2014 8:27:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Mad is the only one with a decoder ring.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/18/2014 9:38:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 7:42:03 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
The nine-year old boy atheist continues to parade his ignorance of Christians and Christianity. He never learns as his prejudices won't let him that he is attacking only traditional Pauline Christianity which isn't Christianity but mostly Paul's theology.
Well, if you'd take a look, you're the one attacking Christianity. I'm only objecting to this ridiculous believe so many Christians have, that being a Christian gives them a superior understanding of the Bible.

He never addresses the Gnostic Christianity that possessed the core of real Christian theology based on Knowledge of God instead of blind faith in liars and their stories.
And just like most other Christians, despite the fact (which you're demonstrating), that you have a much different interpretation of the Bible than most other Christians (EXACTLY what I'm addressing), you assert that you understand the Bible better than I do, because you believe it.

If someone reads the novel "Peter Pan" and believes it to be true; is it more likely that they have a poorer understanding of it than someone who sees it as fiction, or do they have a superior understanding, because they believe it?

And lo and behold! Historical science, God's real revelators, shows the Gnostics had it right all along not to trust Bible authority as Bible authority has collapsed with historical discovery of the ruses and fables of the writers of the Torah/Tanakh.
And if you want to appeal to gnostic Christianity, then you're looking to a time long before the Bible existed, when men like Satornilus, Valintinus, Meander, Cerdo and Basilidies were the primary evangilists for Christianity. And in that case, nothing you've said has anything to do with the thread topic.

Beast, why don't you ever learn? You need to be a bully everyday attacking Pauline Christians and what is the point of it?
I'm not "attacking" anything, you Twit! I'm simply pointing out that the belief most Christians have that they have a superior understanding of the Bible, is demonstrated to be wrong by the fact that Christians have so many different interpretations of the Bible, most of which have little to do with the words in the book.

You are as ignorant as any Pauline Christian about the Bible and waste everyone's time beating your dead horses that atheists have been flogging for eons, all of you unable to overcome your prejudiced views to actually learn the real ins and outs of what you are so riled up about.
Look, are you willing to contest the fact that there are more than 38,000 Christian denominations? Are you willing to contest the fact that Christians tend to think they hold a superior understanding of the Bible, over non-Christians? Because if you're not, then you're just being a loud-mouthed douche-nozzle and you're welcome to close your trap and go away.

Do you think you hold a superior understanding of the Bible over what I understand about the Bible? If so, then demonstrate that to be true. If not, then you realize that everything I've said is true, and you're just unloading because you're primitive mindset won't allow you to accept accurate comments from people who hold a different belief than yours. I welcome you to try to demonstrate a superior understanding of the Bible. Put your money where your apologize and back away.

Do you believe the Bible is God's word? If so, on what basis do you hold that belief? Why does it contain known forgeries, fables and demonstrable fallacies? Put some substance behind your words and stop behaving like a sub-human street-thug.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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9/19/2014 4:14:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/18/2014 8:27:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
Mad is the only one with a decoder ring.

Not so! Mad only has the inferior REDYELLOW decoder ring. Anna, on the other hand, has the magic BLUE decoder ring (which glows when evil is nearby), which is the ORIGINAL decoder ring that was implemented by the messiah, himself. The malignant YELLOW decoder ring that was forged in the heart of Mount DOOM (East of Eden), by pope Sauron and the Orc council of Nicea, was made to control all 38,000 REDYELLOW decoder rings, and will be destroyed by the Apostle Frodo, upon the return of the messiah... Can't you ever get anything right?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/19/2014 4:43:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I see, it"s your interpretation of the bible that"s true. WOW and all those people and generations of people that have over the millenniums have had it wrong all this time, because they don"t know what you know. Do you really expect anyone but idiots to believe or take seriously what you are saying?

If you don"t believe it, then isn"t that an interpretation in and of itself? Therefore your interpretation would be according to you 38,000+1 interpretations. So how is it that you got it right over the thousands of others?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/19/2014 9:49:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/19/2014 4:43:01 PM, DPMartin wrote:
I see, it"s your interpretation of the bible that"s true. WOW and all those people and generations of people that have over the millenniums have had it wrong all this time, because they don"t know what you know. Do you really expect anyone but idiots to believe or take seriously what you are saying?

If you don"t believe it, then isn"t that an interpretation in and of itself? Therefore your interpretation would be according to you 38,000+1 interpretations. So how is it that you got it right over the thousands of others?

I'll explain this again. One who does not read preconceptions into a book, is more likely to grasp the understanding intended than someone who reads their own thoughts, beliefs and expectations into the book. Understand? Just consider, for instance, that none of the authors even intended their writings to become a small part of a book, merged in with and against the beliefs and ideas of many other authors.

So I'm not claiming that I have THE correct interpretation. I'm not even claiming there is a singular correct interpretation. When you take the conflicting ideas of dozens of authors and try to mix them together into one book, it's nearly impossible to come up with a single contiguous message. And the Bible most certainly doesn't provide any such unified message. It contradicts itself continually throughout. It merges a God of anger, wrath, jealousy, vengeance and killing, with an "unchanging" God of love, sacrifice, compassion, tolerance,and passive direction.

BUT... Christians who believe they hold a superior understanding because they are Christians, need to understand that their preconceptions likely serve to provide false perceptions and interpretations. So try to grasp that.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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9/19/2014 10:31:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Put some substance behind your words and stop behaving like a sub-human street-thug."

Hey, whassamatta, atheist boy? You dish out your trash comments every farooking day on these boards boring the hell out of us Christians who have heard every single on of your atheist mantras hundreds of times. I tried to get you to shut up and learn something about Christianity but your ego won't let you learn anything that interrupts your atheist religious beliefs that are a mirror to the evangelicals you continually harass and stalk and bully as one of Debate's homie atheist trolls.

I wish you would grow up and stop being a child picking on weaker children.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/19/2014 10:33:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/19/2014 9:49:56 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/19/2014 4:43:01 PM, DPMartin wrote:
I see, it"s your interpretation of the bible that"s true. WOW and all those people and generations of people that have over the millenniums have had it wrong all this time, because they don"t know what you know. Do you really expect anyone but idiots to believe or take seriously what you are saying?

If you don"t believe it, then isn"t that an interpretation in and of itself? Therefore your interpretation would be according to you 38,000+1 interpretations. So how is it that you got it right over the thousands of others?

I'll explain this again. One who does not read preconceptions into a book, is more likely to grasp the understanding intended than someone who reads their own thoughts, beliefs and expectations into the book. Understand? Just consider, for instance, that none of the authors even intended their writings to become a small part of a book, merged in with and against the beliefs and ideas of many other authors.

So I'm not claiming that I have THE correct interpretation. I'm not even claiming there is a singular correct interpretation. When you take the conflicting ideas of dozens of authors and try to mix them together into one book, it's nearly impossible to come up with a single contiguous message. And the Bible most certainly doesn't provide any such unified message. It contradicts itself continually throughout. It merges a God of anger, wrath, jealousy, vengeance and killing, with an "unchanging" God of love, sacrifice, compassion, tolerance,and passive direction.

BUT... Christians who believe they hold a superior understanding because they are Christians,

Not because anyone is or is not a Christian, but because one has intently studied it.

need to understand that their preconceptions likely serve to provide false perceptions and interpretations. So try to grasp that.

Preconceptions are not necessarily false. They could be, but I wouldn't say they are likely to result in false interpretations.

What you are doing is lifting passages about which Bible scholars have disagreed for centuries. And the passage in Matt 16 is a prime example. Some say it was fulfilled at Pentecost. Others say it was fulfilled in AD 70. Still others claim that it's not yet fulfilled. The first two choices are plausible. The latter position is wholly untenable as its proponents generally find out in debate. The problem is that you are hypothetically taking the last position, the one which has the least support.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."