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Christian and biblical magic

HandsOff
Posts: 504
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3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.
Floid
Posts: 751
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3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A burning bush that talked.

A detached finger appearing and writing on a wall (Daniel 5:5-9)

The whole Noah story (how did 2 of every animal fit on a boat, how did the boat hold enough food and water for all of them, how did animals from other continents get to Noah to get on the boat, how did those animals get back to their native lands, etc)

The Tower of Bable being the origin of there being multiple languages on Earth and why humanity is scattered across the world

Samson, long hair magically gave him super human strength. He also killed 1000 men with the jawbone of a donkey

The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/25/2010 5:56:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM, Floid wrote:
The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses

actually those are not that absurd to belive scientifically anymore.
geology and archeology line up in showing how a volcano they know erupted around that time would cause a chain reaction that leads to all the plauges and in the order of the ten plages came in.
like when we have seen a lake turn red before in modern times it released gasses that killed the nearby village in there sleep. if anyone in the village had not died it was because they were elevated enough to avoid the fumes. In the egyptian culture the first son slept in the first floor as an honor, No hebrews slaves were killed because first son or not they all slept upstairs.

So its not so miraculose to us today.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/25/2010 6:02:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Which is why Christianity was a major world religion by 40AD... oh no wait...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Floid
Posts: 751
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3/25/2010 8:02:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 5:56:42 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM, Floid wrote:
The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses

actually those are not that absurd to belive scientifically anymore.
geology and archeology line up in showing how a volcano they know erupted around that time would cause a chain reaction that leads to all the plauges and in the order of the ten plages came in.

Well, lets look:

staff turning into a snake: absurd
water turning into blood: absurd

a plague of frogs: possible
a plauge of lice: possible
a plauge of flies: possible
livestock dying: possible
a bunch of people getting boils: possible
hail and fire: possible
a plauge of locust: possible
darkness: possible

All of the above happening in a short time span at the command of a person: absurd

an angel of death killing a bunch of kids: absurd (now if you want to say this was a natural event misinterpreted by the people of time, well that probably explains a lot of the Bible).
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/25/2010 9:36:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 8:02:02 AM, Floid wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:56:42 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM, Floid wrote:
The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses

actually those are not that absurd to belive scientifically anymore.
geology and archeology line up in showing how a volcano they know erupted around that time would cause a chain reaction that leads to all the plauges and in the order of the ten plages came in.

Well, lets look:

staff turning into a snake: absurd
scientifically, I agree on this one.
water turning into blood: absurd
you know blood has an Iron taste, kind of like that lake that turned read cause of oxidation.

a plague of frogs: possible
Frogs unlike fish that die when the water turns red, can hop out.
a plauge of lice: possible
a plauge of flies: possible
livestock dying: possible
a bunch of people getting boils: possible
hail and fire: possible
a plauge of locust: possible
darkness: possible

All of the above happening in a short time span at the command of a person: absurd
The bible dosent say it happened at the command of a person, it was at the command of God.

an angel of death killing a bunch of kids: absurd (now if you want to say this was a natural event misinterpreted by the people of time, well that probably explains a lot of the Bible).

a natural catastrophy can explain the plages. I dont see how it could explain the sun stoping in the sky, the walls of jericho coming down, or reserection of the dead by laying on top of there corpse.

there is a scientific explanable way for the fire that consumed Elizhas offering without wood or important fire starting stuff like that. Its not just explainable but repeatable, They are apparently three rocks around that region that when mixed with water react to each other and ignite. It actually makes a large fire very fast. and in the part of 1 kings the story includes a reference to Elizha pouring gallons of water on the alter.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/25/2010 12:23:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Or so weve heard. Can you name any of the 500 people who witnessed this event? Do we have their eyewitness accounts? Did any of them write books that we could rely upon?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/25/2010 12:24:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 5:56:42 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM, Floid wrote:
The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses

actually those are not that absurd to belive scientifically anymore.
geology and archeology line up in showing how a volcano they know erupted around that time would cause a chain reaction that leads to all the plauges and in the order of the ten plages came in.
like when we have seen a lake turn red before in modern times it released gasses that killed the nearby village in there sleep. if anyone in the village had not died it was because they were elevated enough to avoid the fumes. In the egyptian culture the first son slept in the first floor as an honor, No hebrews slaves were killed because first son or not they all slept upstairs.

So its not so miraculose to us today.

So, volcanoes erupting can turn staffs into snakes? Really?

youre right, not so miraculous or absurd to us today.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/25/2010 12:25:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

No no, you got it wrong. It says Big fish, not a whale!!!
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/25/2010 12:29:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:24:45 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:56:42 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/25/2010 3:23:45 AM, Floid wrote:
The 10 plagues, a staff turning into a snake, and all that to do with Moses

actually those are not that absurd to belive scientifically anymore.
geology and archeology line up in showing how a volcano they know erupted around that time would cause a chain reaction that leads to all the plauges and in the order of the ten plages came in.
like when we have seen a lake turn red before in modern times it released gasses that killed the nearby village in there sleep. if anyone in the village had not died it was because they were elevated enough to avoid the fumes. In the egyptian culture the first son slept in the first floor as an honor, No hebrews slaves were killed because first son or not they all slept upstairs.

So its not so miraculose to us today.

So, volcanoes erupting can turn staffs into snakes? Really?

youre right, not so miraculous or absurd to us today.

I guess not the snake part, the 'Exodus Decoded' thing on history channle delt with the ten plauges and dividing of the read sea, not the snake staff.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/25/2010 12:39:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 6:02:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Which is why Christianity was a major world religion by 40AD... oh no wait...

Speaking of which, statistics say that Islam could surpass Christianity soon. xD
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/25/2010 12:42:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:39:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 6:02:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Which is why Christianity was a major world religion by 40AD... oh no wait...

Speaking of which, statistics say that Islam could surpass Christianity soon. xD

Yeah, 'cause they breed like rabbits.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/25/2010 12:42:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:39:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 6:02:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Which is why Christianity was a major world religion by 40AD... oh no wait...

Speaking of which, statistics say that Islam could surpass Christianity soon. xD

I thought it had a while ago?

But hopefully it will continue to liberalise and secularise.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/25/2010 12:44:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:42:21 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:39:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 6:02:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/25/2010 5:25:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/24/2010 10:52:34 PM, HandsOff wrote:
Can you guys help me with a list of absurd stories and miracles the old and new testament make? My friend doesn't think believing in the religions of ancient societies is not anywhere near like believing in magic.

Here's the beginning of my list:
making the earth and universe in 6 days, making a man out of mud, making a woman out of a rib. a talking snake, parting a sea, living inside a whale, characters living to rediculously old ages, going 40 days without food or water, being inpregnated by god, making blind people see, turning water to wine, walking on water, raising people from the dead, coming back to life after dying.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only one you need to believe, over five hundred people saw Him on one occasion.

Which is why Christianity was a major world religion by 40AD... oh no wait...

Speaking of which, statistics say that Islam could surpass Christianity soon. xD

Yeah, 'cause they breed like rabbits.

Don't forget the high conversion rates as well.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.

Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2010 12:50:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^
Yes but the knowledge of Islam is disappearing (sign of Day of Judgement), and general knowledge too. People won't even know enough about prayer, fasting, zakat etc.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/25/2010 12:54:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.

Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^

Actually, it doesnt. Majority does not equal truth. Neither did Christianity = Truth when it was the fastest growing religoin 200 years ago, nor does Islam = Truth now. Sorry to crush your hopes. :(
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/25/2010 12:56:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:54:57 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.

Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^

Actually, it doesnt. Majority does not equal truth. Neither did Christianity = Truth when it was the fastest growing religoin 200 years ago, nor does Islam = Truth now. Sorry to crush your hopes. :(

Well that's because you're atheist, silly.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/25/2010 12:57:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.

Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^

I think not.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2010 12:58:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:54:57 PM, tkubok wrote:
Actually, it doesnt. Majority does not equal truth. Neither did Christianity = Truth when it was the fastest growing religoin 200 years ago, nor does Islam = Truth now. Sorry to crush your hopes. :(
The fact that Muslims and Islam were oppressed since the Qur'an was revealed, yet the prophecy of the beloved Prophet that Muslims will be large in numbers is true, is a sign of something special.
tkubok
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3/25/2010 12:59:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:56:59 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Well that's because you're atheist, silly.

Oh, i KNEW there was some sort of reason why i didnt accept Islam as the true religion! Omigosh, thanks for clearing that up.

But actually, no. Regardless of whether or not im an atheist, majority opinion does not equal truth. :(
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/25/2010 1:15:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:48:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:45:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
It has surpassed Catholicism. Technically Islam is the largest religion in the world, but soon it will be greater in numbers even than all sects of Christianity combined.

Well I think that says something about the truth of Islam. ^^

1. The recent growth of Islam has next to nothing to do with conversion rates. The only reason Islam is growing so rapidly is because of Islamic countries with far above average birth rates.

2. Yes, because there are no differing sects of Islam.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/25/2010 1:24:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 1:18:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
Still, a prophecy coming true. That's the thing here.

Also regarding point number two you made, is it sarcasm?

Yes it's sarcasm, lol.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2010 1:28:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Good. Funnily enough, the major sect makes up about 90% of all Muslims, and 90% of 1.57 billion Muslims = 1,413,000,000 Muslims, which is still more than Catholics. Thank God.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/25/2010 1:30:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/25/2010 12:58:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/25/2010 12:54:57 PM, tkubok wrote:
Actually, it doesnt. Majority does not equal truth. Neither did Christianity = Truth when it was the fastest growing religoin 200 years ago, nor does Islam = Truth now. Sorry to crush your hopes. :(
The fact that Muslims and Islam were oppressed since the Qur'an was revealed, yet the prophecy of the beloved Prophet that Muslims will be large in numbers is true, is a sign of something special.

Well by the time the koran was written Islam had conquered a pretty tasty Empire. So it's not much of a prophecy.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.