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What makes the bible the be all & end all?

bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/23/2014 2:27:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you mean the Word of God is Lord over all and on God"s Word does everything rest, then yes it would be God that made the rule that on His Word does everything rest. The bible isn"t everything there is in God"s Word, but it does cover what is necessary for man to know and understand in the relationship between man and man"s Maker in His Word to man.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.
SevenDust
Posts: 50
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9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.
Albert Einstein
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/23/2014 10:46:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 2:27:33 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you mean the Word of God is Lord over all and on God"s Word does everything rest, then yes it would be God that made the rule that on His Word does everything rest. The bible isn"t everything there is in God"s Word, but it does cover what is necessary for man to know and understand in the relationship between man and man"s Maker in His Word to man.

Do you mean the bible is the word of god in your opinion?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/23/2014 10:51:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Society doesn't dictate my actions.
But back to the topic.
Are you saying that the bible is not the word of god and if so why?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/24/2014 12:58:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 2:27:33 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you mean the Word of God is Lord over all and on God"s Word does everything rest, then yes it would be God that made the rule that on His Word does everything rest. The bible isn"t everything there is in God"s Word, but it does cover what is necessary for man to know and understand in the relationship between man and man"s Maker in His Word to man.

Why do you believe the Bible to be at all connected to God? Do you understand the origin of the Bible?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/24/2014 1:03:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.
Why do you believe it to be the word of God? God didn't write a single word of it, nor did Jesus. This particular mix of writings was selected by men of the 4th century, and none of them demonstrated any special intellect or ability to select writings or authors. In fact, they didn't always agree on what texts should be included. There was often a rather large minority voice against certain books which are in the Bible.

So with no authors aside from ordinary men, no edict from God, and even the lack of unanimous agreement among the council, what makes you think the collection of writings in the Bible has anything to do with God?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/24/2014 1:06:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

What makes you think it was God drawing you back? When you hold the belief that you have the word of God, you believe that the biggest questions of your life are answered, that you need never die, that you are headed for a better existence, and will always be loved.

When you start to leg go of that, is it not normal that you would feel a loss? What makes you think it isn't the longing for that feeling of security which draws you back?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/24/2014 10:10:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

If all the holy books ( Bibles, Quran, book of Mormon, etc. ) were burned up, God's Law ( Word of God, also known as His voice, Mind, or Consciousness ) would still exist, which is where we were all created as invisible vibrations. In the next age, after this world is destroyed within God's mind, we will enter a new age where we won't be deceived by man's laws again. Man's laws were all created by the Law of God to deceive man from knowing Him during this age.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/24/2014 10:52:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."

So you are claiming that god himself told you that the bible is the word of god?
That is a new one.
Are you sure it's the truth?
Or did men tell you that?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/24/2014 11:50:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 10:52:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."

So you are claiming that god himself told you that the bible is the word of god?
That is a new one.
Are you sure it's the truth?
Or did men tell you that?

Well, not in some kind of audible voice, but yes, God speaks to me through his Word.

An illustration of this is in John, Chapter 9, when Christ healed the man who was born blind.

The man who was born blind received sight from Jesus, and was grilled about it by the chief priests and elders.

And the man didn't know the mechanics of what happened, he just knew that he was blind, and Christ made him see.

And that's all I can tell you.
I've encountered Jesus Christ in his Word, and the lights have come on.

Now I can see clearly that the Bible is, in fact, the Word of God, and that it is God himself who enables me to see it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/24/2014 12:17:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 11:50:04 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:52:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."

So you are claiming that god himself told you that the bible is the word of god?
That is a new one.
Are you sure it's the truth?
Or did men tell you that?

Well, not in some kind of audible voice, but yes, God speaks to me through his Word.

An illustration of this is in John, Chapter 9, when Christ healed the man who was born blind.

The man who was born blind received sight from Jesus, and was grilled about it by the chief priests and elders.

And the man didn't know the mechanics of what happened, he just knew that he was blind, and Christ made him see.

And that's all I can tell you.
I've encountered Jesus Christ in his Word, and the lights have come on.

Now I can see clearly that the Bible is, in fact, the Word of God, and that it is God himself who enables me to see it.

So now it's the bible that tells you that the bible is the word of god, because it's the word of god?
You do realise that that makes no sense at all to a thinking person?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 12:17:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 11:50:04 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:52:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."

So you are claiming that god himself told you that the bible is the word of god?
That is a new one.
Are you sure it's the truth?
Or did men tell you that?

Well, not in some kind of audible voice, but yes, God speaks to me through his Word.

An illustration of this is in John, Chapter 9, when Christ healed the man who was born blind.

The man who was born blind received sight from Jesus, and was grilled about it by the chief priests and elders.

And the man didn't know the mechanics of what happened, he just knew that he was blind, and Christ made him see.

And that's all I can tell you.
I've encountered Jesus Christ in his Word, and the lights have come on.

Now I can see clearly that the Bible is, in fact, the Word of God, and that it is God himself who enables me to see it.

So now it's the bible that tells you that the bible is the word of god, because it's the word of god?
You do realise that that makes no sense at all to a thinking person?

No, I was very clear about it being GOD who revealed it to me through the Word.

I'm talking about a supernatural revelation, and if you didn't get that already, let me say it again:

GOD revealed it to me THROUGH the WORD, SUPERNATURALLY.

To be specific, he revealed it to me by the power of his Spirit.

And I don't understand all the mechanics of how it works, but I know that I was "BLIND" and now I "SEE."

Now, I completely understand that makes no sense to the unconverted mind.
And it's not supposed to.
It's completely SUPERNATURAL.

When God enlightens the mind, it's a MIRACLE.
Coming to Christ by faith is not mere assent to propositions.

It's an all-out miracle of divine regeneration--of raising the spiritually dead person from the "grave."

When Christ raised Lazarus from the grave, he couldn't explain in detail how Christ did it.
He just came to life, and he knew that CHRIST was the one who performed it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/24/2014 2:10:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 12:17:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 11:50:04 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:52:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 10:43:08 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:50:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:57:04 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 2:50:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?

The Bible is not the end all and be all.
Christ himself is the end all and be all.

But the Bible is the Word of God, and as such, it is the most important book in existence.

Man's entire purpose for existence is to know God and to have fellowship with him.

And Man lost the privilege of fellowship with God when Adam sinned in the Garden.

But God has mercifully revealed the way of salvation and reconciliation in the Bible.

Christ said,
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

And he said to his Father:
"...this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

There is no knowledge of God apart from the revelation He's given us through his Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Scriptures.

God spoke, in times past, through the prophets and apostles, and he now speaks to men through his Word.

Both the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and the written Word, called the Bible, are the means by which God saves sinners.

So you claim that the bible is the word of god because you want to believe that the bible is the word of god?
Or is there another reason you claim that the bible is the word of god?

It's not that I want to believe it, I find that I couldn't stop believing it even if I tried.

To be honest, I've struggled to believe it at times, but I find that God graciously keeps drawing me back.

So you've convinced yourself, independently, that the bible is the word of god.
No external influences involved?

No, God himself is the external influence.

God enlightens the mind to understand these things.

Now, I don't claim to know all the mechanics of how it works, I just know that I was "blind" and now I "see."

So you are claiming that god himself told you that the bible is the word of god?
That is a new one.
Are you sure it's the truth?
Or did men tell you that?

Well, not in some kind of audible voice, but yes, God speaks to me through his Word.

An illustration of this is in John, Chapter 9, when Christ healed the man who was born blind.

The man who was born blind received sight from Jesus, and was grilled about it by the chief priests and elders.

And the man didn't know the mechanics of what happened, he just knew that he was blind, and Christ made him see.

And that's all I can tell you.
I've encountered Jesus Christ in his Word, and the lights have come on.

Now I can see clearly that the Bible is, in fact, the Word of God, and that it is God himself who enables me to see it.

So now it's the bible that tells you that the bible is the word of god, because it's the word of god?
You do realise that that makes no sense at all to a thinking person?

No, I was very clear about it being GOD who revealed it to me through the Word.

I'm talking about a supernatural revelation, and if you didn't get that already, let me say it again:

GOD revealed it to me THROUGH the WORD, SUPERNATURALLY.

To be specific, he revealed it to me by the power of his Spirit.

And I don't understand all the mechanics of how it works, but I know that I was "BLIND" and now I "SEE."

Now, I completely understand that makes no sense to the unconverted mind.
And it's not supposed to.
It's completely SUPERNATURAL.

When God enlightens the mind, it's a MIRACLE.
Coming to Christ by faith is not mere assent to propositions.

It's an all-out miracle of divine regeneration--of raising the spiritually dead person from the "grave."

When Christ raised Lazarus from the grave, he couldn't explain in detail how Christ did it.
He just came to life, and he knew that CHRIST was the one who performed it.

Well we know that these contentions absolutely contradict your professed doctrine.

You profess that god chose the saved before creation.

Why would god need a miracle to make his decision reality?

Wouldn't his decision be the only influence necessary?

Is a miracle required to ensure that god's decision and knowledge is not defeated by a pathetic human?

Surely god's decision is final and binding? Surely?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/24/2014 2:15:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Has anyone else noticed that no-one has said because that's what they've been taught?

Maybe because their belief would be proved to be the word of man?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/24/2014 2:45:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 2:10:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

No, I was very clear about it being GOD who revealed it to me through the Word.

I'm talking about a supernatural revelation, and if you didn't get that already, let me say it again:

GOD revealed it to me THROUGH the WORD, SUPERNATURALLY.

To be specific, he revealed it to me by the power of his Spirit.

And I don't understand all the mechanics of how it works, but I know that I was "BLIND" and now I "SEE."

Now, I completely understand that makes no sense to the unconverted mind.
And it's not supposed to.
It's completely SUPERNATURAL.

When God enlightens the mind, it's a MIRACLE.
Coming to Christ by faith is not mere assent to propositions.

It's an all-out miracle of divine regeneration--of raising the spiritually dead person from the "grave."

When Christ raised Lazarus from the grave, he couldn't explain in detail how Christ did it.
He just came to life, and he knew that CHRIST was the one who performed it.


Well we know that these contentions absolutely contradict your professed doctrine.

No, there is no contradiction.

You profess that god chose the saved before creation.

That's correct.

Why would god need a miracle to make his decision reality?

GOD doesn't NEED a miracle.
The SPIRITUALLY DEAD need it.

They can't GIVE THEMSELVES spiritual life, any more than a PHYSICALLY DEAD man can give himself life.
THEREFORE, GOD HIMSELF must REGENERATE them.

Wouldn't his decision be the only influence necessary?

Yes, if God decrees something, the no one can prevent it.
But it still has to take place IN TIME.

Surely, you're INTELLIGENT enough to comprehend that CONCEPT, but you're SPIRITUALLY BLIND and DEAD, so it doesn't AFFECT you.

It's like I'm shining a bright light into the eyes of a BLIND man.
The light is BRIGHT, but your DEAD EYES CAN'T SEE IT.

It's like I'm preaching to a DEAD MAN.
The words are coming out, but to you I'm saying nothing, because you're DEAD.


Is a miracle required to ensure that god's decision and knowledge is not defeated by a pathetic human?

Not at all.

In fact, the pathetic state of the human IS the VERY REASON WHY a MIRACLE must take place.


Surely god's decision is final and binding? Surely?

ABSOLUTELY.

And ALL that God ORDAINS to come to pass FROM ETERNITY MUST and SHALL come to pass IN TIME.

That's not really too hard to understand.

But again, you are DEAD and BLIND to all things SPIRITUAL.

You're PHYSICALLY alive, and you can READ what I'm saying.
But you cannot BELIEVE what I'm saying because you're SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

Christ said, to those Pharisees, who heard his words, but did not believe:
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God"s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God." (John 8:43-47)

Now, if YOU are one of God's elect, AT SOME POINT you will HEAR HIS VOICE.
At SOME POINT, you'll hear the Gospel and BELIEVE.

But if you are NOT one of his elect, you will NEVER hear his voice.
You will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

Christ said:
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father"s hand. 30 I and My Father are one." (John 10:27-30)

So then, Christ is in ABSOLUTE, SOVEREIGN CONTROL.

Only the ELECT will be saved, THAT'S TRUE.

But, now, DON'T BE a FATALIST.

Christ ALSO said THIS:

"Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."

Now, if you think that's a contradiction, it's because you are SPIRITUALLY BLIND.

And I pray that God might be pleased to GIVE you SPIRITUAL SIGHT.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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9/24/2014 5:07:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 2:45:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:10:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

No, I was very clear about it being GOD who revealed it to me through the Word.

I'm talking about a supernatural revelation, and if you didn't get that already, let me say it again:

GOD revealed it to me THROUGH the WORD, SUPERNATURALLY.

To be specific, he revealed it to me by the power of his Spirit.

And I don't understand all the mechanics of how it works, but I know that I was "BLIND" and now I "SEE."

Now, I completely understand that makes no sense to the unconverted mind.
And it's not supposed to.
It's completely SUPERNATURAL.

When God enlightens the mind, it's a MIRACLE.
Coming to Christ by faith is not mere assent to propositions.

It's an all-out miracle of divine regeneration--of raising the spiritually dead person from the "grave."

When Christ raised Lazarus from the grave, he couldn't explain in detail how Christ did it.
He just came to life, and he knew that CHRIST was the one who performed it.


Well we know that these contentions absolutely contradict your professed doctrine.

No, there is no contradiction.

You profess that god chose the saved before creation.

That's correct.

Why would god need a miracle to make his decision reality?

GOD doesn't NEED a miracle.
The SPIRITUALLY DEAD need it.

They can't GIVE THEMSELVES spiritual life, any more than a PHYSICALLY DEAD man can give himself life.
THEREFORE, GOD HIMSELF must REGENERATE them.

Wouldn't his decision be the only influence necessary?

Yes, if God decrees something, the no one can prevent it.
But it still has to take place IN TIME.

Surely, you're INTELLIGENT enough to comprehend that CONCEPT, but you're SPIRITUALLY BLIND and DEAD, so it doesn't AFFECT you.

It's like I'm shining a bright light into the eyes of a BLIND man.
The light is BRIGHT, but your DEAD EYES CAN'T SEE IT.

It's like I'm preaching to a DEAD MAN.
The words are coming out, but to you I'm saying nothing, because you're DEAD.


Is a miracle required to ensure that god's decision and knowledge is not defeated by a pathetic human?

Not at all.

In fact, the pathetic state of the human IS the VERY REASON WHY a MIRACLE must take place.


Surely god's decision is final and binding? Surely?

ABSOLUTELY.

And ALL that God ORDAINS to come to pass FROM ETERNITY MUST and SHALL come to pass IN TIME.

That's not really too hard to understand.

But again, you are DEAD and BLIND to all things SPIRITUAL.

You're PHYSICALLY alive, and you can READ what I'm saying.
But you cannot BELIEVE what I'm saying because you're SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

.... and, you see, you MUST take the position that a man can listen to the arguments in favor of a false religion and believe them, but .. mark it down ... cannot listen to the arguments in favor of Christianity and believe them.

That alone should tell you that you preach nonsense.

To you, Christianity is an irrational, illogical, "better-felt-than-explained" religion.

I repeat what I've said before:

(1) A man can read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the Koran and decide to become Islamic with no outside help from God.

(2) The same man read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the OT and decide to become a Jew with no outside help from God.

(3) Then the same fella can read the Book of Mormon, study it, meditate upon it, etc. and decide become a Mormon with no outside help from God.

(4) THEN the fella comes across the NT! He studies it. He discusses it. He meditates upon it. BUT HE CANNOT BELIEVE IT unless God effects a miracle on him.

The natural conclusion would be that you believe the claims of NT are so ridiculous that no sane person would believe them.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/25/2014 12:35:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 5:07:48 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:45:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:10:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


I repeat what I've said before:

(1) A man can read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the Koran and decide to become Islamic with no outside help from God.

(2) The same man read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the OT and decide to become a Jew with no outside help from God.

(3) Then the same fella can read the Book of Mormon, study it, meditate upon it, etc. and decide become a Mormon with no outside help from God.

(4) THEN the fella comes across the NT! He studies it. He discusses it. He meditates upon it. BUT HE CANNOT BELIEVE IT unless God effects a miracle on him.

The natural conclusion would be that you believe the claims of NT are so ridiculous that no sane person would believe them.

Please provide evidence for assertion #4. And if assertion #4 is correct, then God is unjust in treating anyone in differently for not believing, since you claim people can't believe it unless God "effects a miracle" on them. That means that if a person doesn't believe, it's God's fault for not effecting them with a miracle.

And aren't you the same one who claims no miracles have been performed since 74CE?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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9/25/2014 5:33:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 12:35:08 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/24/2014 5:07:48 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:45:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:10:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 2:00:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


I repeat what I've said before:

(1) A man can read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the Koran and decide to become Islamic with no outside help from God.

(2) The same man read, study, meditate upon, and discuss the OT and decide to become a Jew with no outside help from God.

(3) Then the same fella can read the Book of Mormon, study it, meditate upon it, etc. and decide become a Mormon with no outside help from God.

(4) THEN the fella comes across the NT! He studies it. He discusses it. He meditates upon it. BUT HE CANNOT BELIEVE IT unless God effects a miracle on him.

The natural conclusion would be that you believe the claims of NT are so ridiculous that no sane person would believe them.

Please provide evidence for assertion #4. And if assertion #4 is correct, then God is unjust in treating anyone in differently for not believing, since you claim people can't believe it unless God "effects a miracle" on them. That means that if a person doesn't believe, it's God's fault for not effecting them with a miracle.

And aren't you the same one who claims no miracles have been performed since 74CE?

What are you babbling about? I was recounting the doctrine of sovereigngrace.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/25/2014 4:34:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So far the only answer is from gracie and he says it's because god personally told him the bible is god's word through the words of the bible. I got dizzy there.

Anybody know What makes the bible the be all & end all?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/25/2014 5:11:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 4:34:14 PM, bulproof wrote:
So far the only answer is from gracie and he says it's because god personally told him the bible is god's word through the words of the bible. I got dizzy there.

Anybody know What makes the bible the be all & end all?

That they've been told that it is... and they want it to be.

Kudos to SovereignGrace for being the only one brave enough to even approach the question. Every other Christian here should be ashamed that they have no clue why they believe the Bible is God's word.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
SevenDust
Posts: 50
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9/25/2014 6:26:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 10:51:07 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Society doesn't dictate my actions.
But back to the topic.
Are you saying that the bible is not the word of god and if so why?
Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.
Albert Einstein
SevenDust
Posts: 50
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9/25/2014 6:27:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 10:51:07 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Society doesn't dictate my actions.
But back to the topic.
Are you saying that the bible is not the word of god and if so why?
I believe, and this is my opinion that the Bible is the inspired word of God, not necessary the words themselves. So to answer your question, no the Bible is not the word of God.
Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.
Albert Einstein
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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9/25/2014 6:36:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:27:56 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:51:07 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Society doesn't dictate my actions.
But back to the topic.
Are you saying that the bible is not the word of god and if so why?
I believe, and this is my opinion that the Bible is the inspired word of God, not necessary the words themselves. So to answer your question, no the Bible is not the word of God.

I believe, and this is my opinion that the Bible is the inspired word of God
no the Bible is not the word of God.

Ya think?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/26/2014 4:08:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:27:56 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 10:51:07 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 8:09:30 PM, SevenDust wrote:
At 9/23/2014 9:53:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
That is the question.
Is there a rule that declares such?
If so who made the rule?
Did your god make the rule?
Did your satan make the rule?
Did men make the rule?
Who made the rule?
What made the rule?
Bulproof,
I believe that the Bible in itself is not necessary the "be all end all" per-say. I feel it is what you believe as an individual. You are an atheist, so you do not need the Bible to know right from wrong, but you do know that if you drive while intoxicated more than likely you will go to jail. So, in essence society dictates our actions, but as a Christian, the Bible reinforces that behavior for the greater good on behalf of society.
Society doesn't dictate my actions.
But back to the topic.
Are you saying that the bible is not the word of god and if so why?
I believe, and this is my opinion that the Bible is the inspired word of God, not necessary the words themselves.
If not the words, then what... the paper?

So to answer your question, no the Bible is not the word of God.
I agree. But you seem to be presenting the opinion that God is somehow involved in the Bible. Can you be more specific about that?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire