Total Posts:45|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Affirmation

DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 5:50:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

You are correct that we look for affirmation. We all want to know we are right. The only correct affirmation, though, is the confirmation from God. Otherwise, we are simply saying we are right and looking to everyone else to agree with us.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 6:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 5:50:14 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

You are correct that we look for affirmation. We all want to know we are right. The only correct affirmation, though, is the confirmation from God. Otherwise, we are simply saying we are right and looking to everyone else to agree with us.

That"s true, and one can see a lot of that, do you agree with me stuff, on these web sites. When it comes to the Lord one must be in agreement with the Lord in the Lord, first.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 6:09:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

Atheists don't look to words of another atheists to affirm their beliefs. They just could care less about religion being their belief. They simply have no reason.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 6:36:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 6:09:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Atheists don't look to words of another atheists to affirm their beliefs. They just could care less about religion being their belief. They simply have no reason.

Oh is that why you are always here in the religion section because, how did you say it:"They just could care less about religion being their belief. They simply have no reason."

I can almost believe what you are saying considering you are posting in the religion section of the web site quite frequently. If its true you have not interest why post here?

Most atheists that post, like many others here, are always looking for those who agree with them, whether its prominent writers on the subject, or fellow posters. Its not hidden.

Despite what you say, though you may not believe what is recognized as a religion, you have some sort of system of belief you live by, daily. Could be of your own making, but it is a system of belief.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 6:38:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 6:36:38 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 6:09:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Atheists don't look to words of another atheists to affirm their beliefs. They just could care less about religion being their belief. They simply have no reason.


Oh is that why you are always here in the religion section because, how did you say it:"They just could care less about religion being their belief. They simply have no reason."

I can almost believe what you are saying considering you are posting in the religion section of the web site quite frequently. If its true you have not interest why post here?

Most atheists that post, like many others here, are always looking for those who agree with them, whether its prominent writers on the subject, or fellow posters. Its not hidden.

Despite what you say, though you may not believe what is recognized as a religion, you have some sort of system of belief you live by, daily. Could be of your own making, but it is a system of belief.

Are you calling me an atheist?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 6:39:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

I agree with that statement, as well as some of the statements by others in this thread.

But is it for real, or is it all pious talk?

What about those truths contained in the Bible which deeply offend the natural (unconverted) man?

Do you acknowledge that God loves some and hates others, as it is declared in Romans 9:13?

Do you acknowledge that God has mercy on whom he will and hardens others, per Romans 9:15-18?

What about the fall of Man in Adam?
Was God JUST to charge the whole human race for Adam's sin, per Romans 5:18?

You see, when it comes to these things, most so-called "Christians" will attempt to explain them away.
And their pretense of looking to the Scriptures as the source of all truth is exposed as the utter sham it is.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 6:29:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

What is truly sad is that this view seems to be so prevalent. One should not seek affirmation, if one is not certain. One should seek that which is true, before making a decision. If one is seeking affirmation, they will find it, no matter what.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 6:32:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

No. You theists look after words of other people because apparently you can't/you are too lazy/you simply don't want to think for yourselves. Atheists don't do that/are not required to do that, they don't have a leader or an idol.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:02:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 6:39:39 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

But is it for real, or is it all pious talk?

It"s probably pious over bloated horse dump. ;)

What about those truths contained in the Bible which deeply offend the natural (unconverted) man?

What about the trues, that are in the Bible, aren"t they subjects for threads?

Do you acknowledge that God loves some and hates others, as it is declared in Romans 9:13?

Do you acknowledge that God has mercy on whom he will and hardens others, per Romans 9:15-18?

What about the fall of Man in Adam?
Was God JUST to charge the whole human race for Adam's sin, per Romans 5:18?

Those are things written in the Torah. If one"s God is the Lord God of Israel then yes He Has Grace on who He will. But this and the life we receive when we come into the world that is of Adam are subjects for other threads, correct?

You see, when it comes to these things, most so-called "Christians" will attempt to explain them away.
And their pretense of looking to the Scriptures as the source of all truth is exposed as the utter sham it is.

Well if you ever noticed, some look to the sins and mistakes the people in the bible made, and some spew morals and law to condemn the already condemned, and some look to what God said and did. There is a reason for that, but the wisdom is, you observe it and discern what type of person they are. Silencing them would be like taking the rattle of the rattle snake, and you would have no warning before they try to strike.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:17:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 6:29:17 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
What is truly sad is that this view seems to be so prevalent. One should not seek affirmation, if one is not certain. One should seek that which is true, before making a decision. If one is seeking affirmation, they will find it, no matter what.

A most excellent point, but do you seek affirmation that the sun is the sun? Or do you experience that the sun is the sun? To know is to experience or be present to revelation, therefore the truth, correct?
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:31:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
DPMartin, would you please stop posting Paul's ideology and posing as a follower of Jesus Christ?

You are not a follower of Jesus Christ nor are any of you who follow Paul's ideas instead of the teachings of Jesus Christ who told you to seek the truth that sets you free of man-made political bullhockey that was never of the Spirit of Christ. Such as believing in man-made ideas posing as "Word of God".

You are not Jewish I will presume and as a Gentile follower of Paul who was the creation of Gentile Church Fathers, i.e, a creation of words in a book without factual basis in historical reality, this proven by scholarship showing multiple authors of "Paul" Letters. Since you are not Jewish you don't really get Yeishu ben Pantera's theology as it is purely Jewish in origin and in correct spiritual interpretation and I'm not talking about Torah/Tanakh/Talmud interpretation either, the product of the tribe of Judah and not representative of full Hebrew historical spiritual destiny. This is what happens when men use God for political reasons, they get exposed as phonies eventually and that happened with the scholarship revealing multiple Paul authorship being sold to Christians in the New Testament as historical truth. Sold to people like you and all fundies who think God resides in a bound stack of paper and ink. You're exactly like Muhammadan idolators who also believe their Allah lives in the Quran.

Well, God is not with you anymore as my people have produced evidence of my people's forgeries that you Gentiles take as real history when it never was. Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman archeological work has completely debunked the Bible stories as real history of my peoples, the Hebrews. You Gentile true believers in man-made words that even Jesus warned you not to take as word of God are just passing on Bad Religion to yourselves and future Gentile Christians all taken in by Rome's ruses starting with the Paul forgeries. But actually this monkey business with Scriptures has been going on for a long long time as the Israeli archeology shows in ancient Bible forgeries. "Word of God" is not to be trusted, just look what these "Word of God" books do to people who are gullible like you guys, never bothering to check your sources for political manipulation, only swallowing words by "Faith" instead of Knowledge of God. Faith gets you snake-oil salesmen every time preying on stupidity of believers who think God can be reduced to one set of words in a book.

It has always been The Library that is the Word of God, not any one of the books contained in the libraries. Follow truth of Jesus who told you to seek the truth and not be slaves of man-made words as little black idols lined up in rows on pieces of paper.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 10:01:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

Christians don't even know that the Word of God is so how could they look to the Word of God for affirmation? It certainly isn't a book called the Bible which was produced by antichrists who had no idea what the Word of God was.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 10:19:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 6:32:57 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

No. You theists look after words of other people because apparently you can't/you are too lazy/you simply don't want to think for yourselves. Atheists don't do that/are not required to do that, they don't have a leader or an idol.

Most atheists that post here, like many others, are always looking for those who agree with them, whether its prominent writers on the subject, or fellow posters. Its not hidden.

It"s hard to believe that the common view of "thinking for one"s self" is actually true in the sense that the thoughts are of one"s self. There"s nothing new under the sun. Choosing for one"s self or believing in one"s own judgement of what is good for one"s self, is still a choice of what is already there. Even one"s imagination or creativity is made up of what has been experienced, seen, or heard, one way or the other. Therefore what you think isn"t of one"s self but the one"s choice what to think, or one can agree that what someone else thinks is correct, if they believe they know better.

There maybe reason for someone to not trust the judgement of others, but surly the Creator and Judge"s Judgements are Good.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 10:23:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 10:19:19 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 6:32:57 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

No. You theists look after words of other people because apparently you can't/you are too lazy/you simply don't want to think for yourselves. Atheists don't do that/are not required to do that, they don't have a leader or an idol.

Most atheists that post here, like many others, are always looking for those who agree with them, whether its prominent writers on the subject, or fellow posters. Its not hidden.

It"s hard to believe that the common view of "thinking for one"s self" is actually true in the sense that the thoughts are of one"s self. There"s nothing new under the sun. Choosing for one"s self or believing in one"s own judgement of what is good for one"s self, is still a choice of what is already there. Even one"s imagination or creativity is made up of what has been experienced, seen, or heard, one way or the other. Therefore what you think isn"t of one"s self but the one"s choice what to think, or one can agree that what someone else thinks is correct, if they believe they know better.

There maybe reason for someone to not trust the judgement of others, but surly the Creator and Judge"s Judgements are Good.

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.

Only God's saints were designed to listen to God's voice and obey His commandments to learn about the past, present and future that not even His prophets understood as they wrote for Him.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 11:12:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:17:43 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 6:29:17 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
What is truly sad is that this view seems to be so prevalent. One should not seek affirmation, if one is not certain. One should seek that which is true, before making a decision. If one is seeking affirmation, they will find it, no matter what.


A most excellent point, but do you seek affirmation that the sun is the sun? Or do you experience that the sun is the sun? To know is to experience or be present to revelation, therefore the truth, correct?

I require no affirmation, with respect to the sun. The sun does not reveal itself, I perceive it. My senses are capable of telling me that the sun is there. This is not true of a deity (in my experience). While I cannot, and would not deny to someone else that they have "experienced" what they believe they have experienced, it cannot be real to me, until that "experience" has been mine. The experience of each and every one of us is what makes us individuals. That "experience is not something that can be "shared," or accurately described such as to share it with another. The sun was a good analogy, but the experience is completely unique to each individual.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 11:35:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 10:19:19 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 6:32:57 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

No. You theists look after words of other people because apparently you can't/you are too lazy/you simply don't want to think for yourselves. Atheists don't do that/are not required to do that, they don't have a leader or an idol.

Most atheists that post here, like many others, are always looking for those who agree with them, whether its prominent writers on the subject, or fellow posters. Its not hidden.

It"s hard to believe that the common view of "thinking for one"s self" is actually true in the sense that the thoughts are of one"s self. There"s nothing new under the sun. Choosing for one"s self or believing in one"s own judgement of what is good for one"s self, is still a choice of what is already there. Even one"s imagination or creativity is made up of what has been experienced, seen, or heard, one way or the other. Therefore what you think isn"t of one"s self but the one"s choice what to think, or one can agree that what someone else thinks is correct, if they believe they know better.

There maybe reason for someone to not trust the judgement of others, but surly the Creator and Judge"s Judgements are Good.

That is irrelevant. Atheists construct their own reasoning, even if they do it from puting together the thoughts of many different people. They don't follow blindly those people, they think freely and are not fanatic in their reasoning.

Theist do not construct their reasoning, they copy it from the Bible, what renders them captives of the book, and at the same time fanatics.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 11:55:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:02:49 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 6:39:39 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

But is it for real, or is it all pious talk?

It"s probably pious over bloated horse dump. ;)

What about those truths contained in the Bible which deeply offend the natural (unconverted) man?

What about the trues, that are in the Bible, aren"t they subjects for threads?

Do you acknowledge that God loves some and hates others, as it is declared in Romans 9:13?

Do you acknowledge that God has mercy on whom he will and hardens others, per Romans 9:15-18?

What about the fall of Man in Adam?
Was God JUST to charge the whole human race for Adam's sin, per Romans 5:18?

Those are things written in the Torah. If one"s God is the Lord God of Israel then yes He Has Grace on who He will. But this and the life we receive when we come into the world that is of Adam are subjects for other threads, correct?

You see, when it comes to these things, most so-called "Christians" will attempt to explain them away.
And their pretense of looking to the Scriptures as the source of all truth is exposed as the utter sham it is.


Well if you ever noticed, some look to the sins and mistakes the people in the bible made, and some spew morals and law to condemn the already condemned, and some look to what God said and did. There is a reason for that, but the wisdom is, you observe it and discern what type of person they are. Silencing them would be like taking the rattle of the rattle snake, and you would have no warning before they try to strike.

For some reason, I'm having a hard time understanding your responses.

Either they are poorly worded, or I just need some caffeine.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 12:16:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:31:24 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
DPMartin, would you please stop posting Paul's ideology and posing as a follower of Jesus Christ?

You are not a follower of Jesus Christ nor are any of you who follow Paul's ideas instead of the teachings of Jesus Christ who told you to seek the truth that sets you free of man-made political bullhockey that was never of the Spirit of Christ. Such as believing in man-made ideas posing as "Word of God".

You are not Jewish I will presume and as a Gentile follower of Paul who was the creation of Gentile Church Fathers, i.e, a creation of words in a book without factual basis in historical reality, this proven by scholarship showing multiple authors of "Paul" Letters. Since you are not Jewish you don't really get Yeishu ben Pantera's theology as it is purely Jewish in origin and in correct spiritual interpretation and I'm not talking about Torah/Tanakh/Talmud interpretation either, the product of the tribe of Judah and not representative of full Hebrew historical spiritual destiny. This is what happens when men use God for political reasons, they get exposed as phonies eventually and that happened with the scholarship revealing multiple Paul authorship being sold to Christians in the New Testament as historical truth. Sold to people like you and all fundies who think God resides in a bound stack of paper and ink. You're exactly like Muhammadan idolators who also believe their Allah lives in the Quran.

Well, God is not with you anymore as my people have produced evidence of my people's forgeries that you Gentiles take as real history when it never was. Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman archeological work has completely debunked the Bible stories as real history of my peoples, the Hebrews. You Gentile true believers in man-made words that even Jesus warned you not to take as word of God are just passing on Bad Religion to yourselves and future Gentile Christians all taken in by Rome's ruses starting with the Paul forgeries. But actually this monkey business with Scriptures has been going on for a long long time as the Israeli archeology shows in ancient Bible forgeries. "Word of God" is not to be trusted, just look what these "Word of God" books do to people who are gullible like you guys, never bothering to check your sources for political manipulation, only swallowing words by "Faith" instead of Knowledge of God. Faith gets you snake-oil salesmen every time preying on stupidity of believers who think God can be reduced to one set of words in a book.

It has always been The Library that is the Word of God, not any one of the books contained in the libraries. Follow truth of Jesus who told you to seek the truth and not be slaves of man-made words as little black idols lined up in rows on pieces of paper.

It seems what you are saying is the whole of the NT and what the Gentiles consider OT is bogus, and that its not God"s will that the Gentiles should be saved. Besides I don"t recollect anyone proving that Apostle Paul taught to the contrary of any scripture.

I would remind you that it is well known that there are more Jewish writings in relationship to Israeli history. But I do believe if my memory serves, the Christian collection of OT is considered to be only that which is understood as sound scripture for Christian interests. Documents like Tanakh/Talmud collections may not be of interest to the Christian need to know. Especially when hand written scribing was the method in those days. As far as the many possible copies of any document, I do believe it was the Lord God of Israel that stated something to the effect to go with more that one witness that agrees. I guess in your expressed opinion it seems the Gentiles are to studied to follow that.

Anyways, some can confuse using the scripture to verify if some one is preaching or teaching correctly accordingly, with thinking it"s the Word of God. Though much of what is written in the scriptures is a documentation of what the Lord God said or Jesus Christ said to someone, and that is the Word of God to them, and in most cases for our sakes, but the Word of God is of God in God"s Presence and is Lord. Hence not a document, but has been documented. And I don"t remember saying that the Word of God was a document.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 12:23:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?

So now god has a book that he reads to you from or does he tell you his words directly?
Where can you direct me to the words of god, so that I too can find them?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 1:00:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 11:35:45 AM, Otokage wrote:
That is irrelevant. Atheists construct their own reasoning, even if they do it from puting together the thoughts of many different people. They don't follow blindly those people, they think freely and are not fanatic in their reasoning.

Theist do not construct their reasoning, they copy it from the Bible, what renders them captives of the book, and at the same time fanatics.

Na, na na na, same people different views, just because one"s view or belief is different from another doesn"t change the human nature. The atheist is self serving and some other view maybe serving something else. But surly men are just as passionate and loyal or otherwise on both sides of the fence.

In the case of those who trust what the bible says, everyone else can examine what it is they may be committed to, where as someone self-serving can change his stance or mind for any purpose he sees fit at that moment. Therefore the integrity of what they say in relationship to what they may or may not believe can be questionable (no offence). But if a bible believer is incorrect or correct, its no secret to those who would check the scriptures.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 1:09:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 12:23:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?

So now god has a book that he reads to you from or does he tell you his words directly?
Where can you direct me to the words of god, so that I too can find them?

Ask the Lord Jesus Christ yourself, call upon His name and acknowledge Him as the Son of God (meaning Creator and Judge) requesting that He have Mercy on you and that He be your Lord and Savior. Don"t bother mocking, it would be wiser not to then. He sees you heart like someone sees your face, if its lying, He can see that. If your request is genuine, then the rest He will take care of.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 1:14:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 1:09:10 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 12:23:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?

So now god has a book that he reads to you from or does he tell you his words directly?
Where can you direct me to the words of god, so that I too can find them?

Ask the Lord Jesus Christ yourself, call upon His name and acknowledge Him as the Son of God (meaning Creator and Judge) requesting that He have Mercy on you and that He be your Lord and Savior. Don"t bother mocking, it would be wiser not to then. He sees you heart like someone sees your face, if its lying, He can see that. If your request is genuine, then the rest He will take care of.

Well we all know that such an idea is ridiculous. Your god is omniscient, so what's the point in you telling me what to do? You have no idea what god knows. If god chose me to be saved before creation then there is nothing I can do about it............I'm saved. Either that or god is WRONG.
If god didn't choose me to be saved before creation then I'm not saved or god is WRONG.
I have no say in the matter.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 2:14:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 1:14:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:09:10 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 12:23:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?

So now god has a book that he reads to you from or does he tell you his words directly?
Where can you direct me to the words of god, so that I too can find them?

Ask the Lord Jesus Christ yourself, call upon His name and acknowledge Him as the Son of God (meaning Creator and Judge) requesting that He have Mercy on you and that He be your Lord and Savior. Don"t bother mocking, it would be wiser not to then. He sees you heart like someone sees your face, if its lying, He can see that. If your request is genuine, then the rest He will take care of.

Well we all know that such an idea is ridiculous. Your god is omniscient, so what's the point in you telling me what to do? You have no idea what god knows. If god chose me to be saved before creation then there is nothing I can do about it............I'm saved. Either that or god is WRONG.
If god didn't choose me to be saved before creation then I'm not saved or god is WRONG.
I have no say in the matter.

What you're talking about is fatalism.

That's an entirely different animal than faith.

Fatalism says, "Well, God is in control of all things, so I may as well not do anything."

And so the fatalist does nothing.

But faith, on the other hand, says, "God is in control of everything, so he will do everything he promises to do."

And so the one who has faith in God seeks to know God and to obey his will.

AND he trusts that God will fulfill his promise to pardon the sins of all those who seek him.

The Word of God says:

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon."
(Isaiah 55:6-7)
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 2:18:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 2:14:20 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:14:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 1:09:10 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 12:23:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:59:29 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:24:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/24/2014 9:05:59 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/23/2014 11:34:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/23/2014 4:34:53 PM, DPMartin wrote:
What is interesting is those who are, or seek to be faithful to their belief, whether it be atheist, theist or priest, always look to affirmation in their belief, so that they may trust it. What is affirmation for the atheist, but the words of another atheist. And the theist the words of another theist. But a follower of Jesus Christ looks to the Word of God for affirmation.

And where do you propose you would find these words of a god?

That would probably require the Presence of God, wouldn"t it? It does stand to reason that something from something would have to be from the presence thereof, correct?

What I asked was where would you find the word of god?
You claim to "look to the word of god", where would you find that?

Right, in the Presence of God, where else would you find it?

So now god has a book that he reads to you from or does he tell you his words directly?
Where can you direct me to the words of god, so that I too can find them?

Ask the Lord Jesus Christ yourself, call upon His name and acknowledge Him as the Son of God (meaning Creator and Judge) requesting that He have Mercy on you and that He be your Lord and Savior. Don"t bother mocking, it would be wiser not to then. He sees you heart like someone sees your face, if its lying, He can see that. If your request is genuine, then the rest He will take care of.

Well we all know that such an idea is ridiculous. Your god is omniscient, so what's the point in you telling me what to do? You have no idea what god knows. If god chose me to be saved before creation then there is nothing I can do about it............I'm saved. Either that or god is WRONG.
If god didn't choose me to be saved before creation then I'm not saved or god is WRONG.
I have no say in the matter.

What you're talking about is fatalism.

That's an entirely different animal than faith.

Fatalism says, "Well, God is in control of all things, so I may as well not do anything."

And so the fatalist does nothing.

But faith, on the other hand, says, "God is in control of everything, so he will do everything he promises to do."

And so the one who has faith in God seeks to know God and to obey his will.

AND he trusts that God will fulfill his promise to pardon the sins of all those who seek him.

The Word of God says:

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon."
(Isaiah 55:6-7)

Try again
Is your god omniscient?

BTW it was you who claimed that god chose the elect before creation, remember?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/24/2014 4:01:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 1:14:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
Well we all know that such an idea is ridiculous. Your god is omniscient, so what's the point in you telling me what to do? You have no idea what god knows. If god chose me to be saved before creation then there is nothing I can do about it............I'm saved. Either that or god is WRONG.
If god didn't choose me to be saved before creation then I'm not saved or god is WRONG.
I have no say in the matter.

God chose His Son before creation friend, of which Adam died from (see Luke 3:38)

Since it is true that when we come into the world we receive the life Adam had, and don"t receive the life he lost. Noah found Grace in God"s sight and we are all sons of Noah. Therefore Grace can be found, for we have the same life Noah had, and then faith which is declared by God to be accounted as righteousness in the case of Abraham. And the Gospel is by grace through faith are we saved. And it doesn"t matter what anyone says, Jesus says:

Jn:10:9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Peter reiterates

Acts:2:21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

As far as God"s choice, Jesus is God"s choice, make no mistake about it. And its through Him are we saved. That"s why He is the Messiah the Christ. One must be chosen through His Son, or they are not chosen at all. The thief on the cross acknowledged Him and Jesus told the thief He would see him in paradise.

have nice day there bulproof