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POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...
Never fart near dog
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
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9/25/2014 3:09:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

You obviously know very little of Catholic Theology. You are essentially asking protestants about Catholicism.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/25/2014 3:19:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

You mean like the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts? How does some people believing in there false books in any way disprove the Bible?

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

A Muslim's the one to speak. Tell me sone fulfilled prophecies from the Quran or the Hadith or some other Islamic Text which isn't the Old Testament.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

That's just plain wrong. Jesus once said "Before Abraham I AM!" This is significant because to the Jews, "I AM" was a title which belonged solely to God. As Jesus was a Jew, He was fully aware of this, and yet He called Himself I Am anyway. Claim of divinity. There you go.

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.

He is God, but in the Trinity there is also the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son, but the other two are also God.

Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.

John 10:30 says "I and the Father are one."

Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Because the man did not believe Jesus to be God. If Jesus was a man, then He couldn't be good. Therefore, He was saying, "Why do you call me good when you don't believe that I am God?"

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

Christian Theology has the answer to this question.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

We don't know...but as God intended for all to be saved, He possibly accepts people into Heaven on a basis of whether or not they would've accepted His Gift of Salvation had they heard it.

Does that answer your questions?
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12_13
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9/25/2014 4:14:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

I believe it, because I don"t see any good reason not to believe it.

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

I think the main point in the Bible is this: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Is there any good reason not to believe that? What would you need to believe it is good and right? What would you need to live according to it? If you have no problem with it, then I think everything is quite fine.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

I agree that Jesus didn"t claim that he is God. However, according to him God dwells in him, so he has so divinity. And also according to the Bible,. God has given him all power, which also makes him quite divine, even though not the one true God.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works"
John 14:10-14

And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:18

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

According to the Bible, eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Jesus declared forgiveness, but it is not useful, if person doesn"t repent and there happens no change for better in the heart of a person.

Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

Forgiveness gives a new start, but if person continues in sin, and don"t become righteous, the forgiveness doesn"t help.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

As said before, eternal life is for righteous. It may be possible that person who has not heard of Jesus is also righteous, because:

For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:13-16
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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9/25/2014 5:45:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:09:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

You obviously know very little of Catholic Theology. You are essentially asking protestants about Catholicism.

the first 3 questions are not about dominations like cathilics or protestants. maybe there are differences concerning to 4 and 5... but i think 4 and 5 also not changing for catholics or protestants.. anyway if you got some answer good to see...
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DPMartin
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9/25/2014 6:16:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

Which books are those?


2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.


That not necessarily true, I know of many who were raised in a God fearing home and have no fear of God.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..

That is not true Jesus stated that He was from heaven

Jn:6:38: For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

There are other versus that support this but I"m not going to go there.

And He said many time He was of His Father in HeavenMt:7:21, Mt:11:25, Mt:24:36

I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

Why? From what you are posting, it seems to be missinforming.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

Once saved one can grow in the Lord, the fulfillment in Christ is what God wants to take place, there is such thing as treasures in Heaven, He is or Great Reward. How did Apostle John say it, when we, (meaning the saved) see Him, we will be like Him. The Grace for all who are sons of Noah, has been fulfilled. Hence one must acknowledge what is their"s, in order to have it.


5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

Read the OT, there are many people that trusted the salvation of God, and never heard of Jesus Christ.
POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 8:16:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:19:17 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

You mean like the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts? How does some people believing in there false books in any way disprove the Bible?

no im talking about books inside the bible.. like the gospels, most scholars now days say they are anonymous, tradition says otherwise but its not academic approach its what people say.

or for example the book of Hebrews.. if you know James Whites he admits that the author of Hebrews is anonymous and he got no problem with that, well why not?


2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

A Muslim's the one to speak. Tell me sone fulfilled prophecies from the Quran or the Hadith or some other Islamic Text which isn't the Old Testament.

in the Quran and the Hadiths.. its full with prophecies believe me, but im here to ask if you are believe because of prophecies im certainly sure there are prophecies also in other religions like islam hinduism or perhaps in the chinese religions...


3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

That's just plain wrong. Jesus once said "Before Abraham I AM!" This is significant because to the Jews, "I AM" was a title which belonged solely to God. As Jesus was a Jew, He was fully aware of this, and yet He called Himself I Am anyway. Claim of divinity. There you go.

wait first of all historically from the first gospel (according to dating..) to the last one which is the gospel of John, there are evulotion of Jesus from merely human to God in some sense.. but even that there is no claim of Jesus of declaring to be God... its how you look and interpret it. "I AM" doesnt mean God, i think you reffaring to the old testmant where God says "I Am Who I Am", first in the hebrew langauge its not saying "i am" its your translations who put there "i am", the words thre simply say - i will be whatever i will be" (אהיה אשר אהיה/ aheya asher aheya") the word "i am" in Hebrew is "ani/אני". even if you translate it wrong putting there "i am" its has context, God only says " i am whatever i am" because Moses asked about him what hes name, and God says " i am whatever i am".


For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.

He is God, but in the Trinity there is also the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son, but the other two are also God.

So the son God (Jesus) has a God who is the father right? beacuse he said "my god" so God has a God according to your explanation? and i dont get it, he was acting right? because he is God also the same person praying to himself. why he must pray to the father if he is God? thats doesnt make any sense.


Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.

John 10:30 says "I and the Father are one."

if you read the next verses from 30 to 35 you will see jesus rebuked the jews for accusing Jesus to be God (in verse 31-32), read the verses before and after 10:30 he doesnt claiming to be God because of "i and my father are one".


Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Because the man did not believe Jesus to be God. If Jesus was a man, then He couldn't be good. Therefore, He was saying, "Why do you call me good when you don't believe that I am God?"

but wait the person who asked him is a Jew, how on earth he can know if Jesus is God or not in the first place? secondly you are changing the words from "there is none good but one, that is, God." TO "when you don't believe that I am God?" - so you putting words there to justify your claims. clearly jesus didnt mean that he says im not good only god is good.


There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

Christian Theology has the answer to this question.

how it answers? maybe i dont know enough informatio about the bible but yet never saw somebody answering that question.


5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

We don't know...but as God intended for all to be saved, He possibly accepts people into Heaven on a basis of whether or not they would've accepted His Gift of Salvation had they heard it.

so you are not sure about that? well for us its not a problem but someone lives in the jungle its a huge problem... if God intetnded for all to be saved (i dont know how he did it) why there are people who dont and cant have the chance to the choose christ or not.


Does that answer your questions?

i think not...
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LogicalLunatic
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9/25/2014 8:39:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 8:16:29 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:19:17 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

You mean like the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts? How does some people believing in there false books in any way disprove the Bible?

no im talking about books inside the bible.. like the gospels, most scholars now days say they are anonymous, tradition says otherwise but its not academic approach its what people say.

or for example the book of Hebrews.. if you know James Whites he admits that the author of Hebrews is anonymous and he got no problem with that, well why not?

Dude, they found a copy of the Gospel of Luke dating back to the first century. Don't tell me that none of the Gospel writers met Jesus.


2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

A Muslim's the one to speak. Tell me sone fulfilled prophecies from the Quran or the Hadith or some other Islamic Text which isn't the Old Testament.

in the Quran and the Hadiths.. its full with prophecies believe me, but im here to ask if you are believe because of prophecies im certainly sure there are prophecies also in other religions like islam hinduism or perhaps in the chinese religions...

Let's see...
The Jews maintained its cultural, religious, and ethnic heritage for 2000 years. In fact, just staying alive after countless pogroms and the Holocaust is in itself a feat.
THEN, they established a nation and it stands today, despite being surrounded by crazy Muslim nations and having been attacked multiple times. They have become enormously successful for a state that:
1. Was founded in the Middle East
2. Has no known oil deposits
3. Has been in existence for slightly less than 70 years.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

That's just plain wrong. Jesus once said "Before Abraham I AM!" This is significant because to the Jews, "I AM" was a title which belonged solely to God. As Jesus was a Jew, He was fully aware of this, and yet He called Himself I Am anyway. Claim of divinity. There you go.

wait first of all historically from the first gospel (according to dating..) to the last one which is the gospel of John, there are evulotion of Jesus from merely human to God in some sense.. but even that there is no claim of Jesus of declaring to be God... its how you look and interpret it. "I AM" doesnt mean God, i think you reffaring to the old testmant where God says "I Am Who I Am", first in the hebrew langauge its not saying "i am" its your translations who put there "i am", the words thre simply say - i will be whatever i will be" (אהיה אשר אהיה/ aheya asher aheya") the word "i am" in Hebrew is "ani/אני". even if you translate it wrong putting there "i am" its has context, God only says " i am whatever i am" because Moses asked about him what hes name, and God says " i am whatever i am".

No offense, but what I see here is a whole bunch of numbers and symbols. But anyway, right after Jesus said this, the Pharisees tried to stone Him, meaning that He had said something they considered worthy of execution under their law, something blasphemous. Voila! There's your claim of divinity.


For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.

He is God, but in the Trinity there is also the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son, but the other two are also God.

So the son God (Jesus) has a God who is the father right? beacuse he said "my god" so God has a God according to your explanation? and i dont get it, he was acting right? because he is God also the same person praying to himself. why he must pray to the father if he is God? thats doesnt make any sense.

Jesus, while equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, exalts the Father above Himself, taking on the role of the obedient son. And you must consider that at the time that Jesus said this, He was a man.

Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.

John 10:30 says "I and the Father are one."

if you read the next verses from 30 to 35 you will see jesus rebuked the jews for accusing Jesus to be God (in verse 31-32), read the verses before and after 10:30 he doesnt claiming to be God because of "i and my father are one".

Jesus was rebuking them for trying to kill Him. And in this very passage He admitted that He had (at least at some point) called Himself the Son of God.

Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Because the man did not believe Jesus to be God. If Jesus was a man, then He couldn't be good. Therefore, He was saying, "Why do you call me good when you don't believe that I am God?"

but wait the person who asked him is a Jew, how on earth he can know if Jesus is God or not in the first place? secondly you are changing the words from "there is none good but one, that is, God." TO "when you don't believe that I am God?" - so you putting words there to justify your claims. clearly jesus didnt mean that he says im not good only god is good.

As I have shown that Jesus had admitted to being God, the text of this verse shouldn't be translated to say what you think it says.


There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

Christian Theology has the answer to this question.

how it answers? maybe i dont know enough informatio about the bible but yet never saw somebody answering that question.

It's kind of complicated and hard to explain, so perhaps you should find some Christian websites and get your answers there.
And I tried explaining here, but I quickly ran out of characters.


5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

We don't know...but as God intended for all to be saved, He possibly accepts people into Heaven on a basis of whether or not they would've accepted His Gift of Salvation had they heard it.

so you are not sure about that? well for us its not a problem but someone lives in the jungle its a huge problem... if God intetnded for all to be saved (i dont know how he did it) why there are people who dont and cant have the chance to the choose christ or not.

Like I said, perhaps they will have a chance after they die.


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POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 8:59:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 4:14:16 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

I believe it, because I don"t see any good reason not to believe it.

what? anonymous forgeries additions interpolations are not good reasons? well what can i say...


2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

I think the main point in the Bible is this: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Is there any good reason not to believe that? What would you need to believe it is good and right? What would you need to live according to it? If you have no problem with it, then I think everything is quite fine.

im sure reading the bible there are many stuff we should as humans to follow like the one you qouted but it just an idea.. islam says the same thing:
(prophet mohammed s.a.w said - "None of you will believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself.")
in Budahisim there are many amazing stuff. but it doesnt makes it right or to be from God. in every religion we can find good morals and examples to follow... but its not a proof to be from God.


3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

I agree that Jesus didn"t claim that he is God. However, according to him God dwells in him, so he has so divinity. And also according to the Bible,. God has given him all power, which also makes him quite divine, even though not the one true God.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works"
John 14:10-14

the father in him doesnt mean he is God, its a metaphorical, for example the same John says in 17:12
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

so the father jesus and the disciples are in one body? including the traitor judas... it doesnt mean that clearly.. in the old testament the jews called "Gods" but its doesnt mean that, its a metaphor.. meaning a pious person a godly person , like "son of God" its how the hebrew aramaic arabic langauges works.


And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:18

yep God given all power to him (jesus) its not his own power... so he is not God, jesus says 5:30
"I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

God do anything, Jesus do nothing by his own.


4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

According to the Bible, eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Jesus declared forgiveness, but it is not useful, if person doesn"t repent and there happens no change for better in the heart of a person.

Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

Forgiveness gives a new start, but if person continues in sin, and don"t become righteous, the forgiveness doesn"t help.

but what the definition of "righteous" according to the bible? good athiests or good muslims will go heaven? no. righteous means according to Jesu/bible not our interpretations... Mattew 5:18 -5:
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21... keeping reading it gives commands.. jesus says following the law and believing in him - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

but Pual says only your faith gonna save you, not your actions...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

http://www.gotquestions.org...

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

As said before, eternal life is for righteous. It may be possible that person who has not heard of Jesus is also righteous, because:

For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:13-16

thats not making sense in certain way, what i mean is for example, lets say i born in a village in africa with some evil practices like incest... the society brainwashing us, how on earth i can see the right from the wrong? brainwashing makes one to see by the stuff they brainwashed... its not just "written in the heart"... in africa there are people walking naked without shame because its theIr practice they brainwashed by others (their older generations..) or if brainwash kids with some stuff, it will change their character and morality.. their right and wrong would be different from the law.
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POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 9:39:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:16:26 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

Which books are those?

the 4 Gospels. book of Hebrews or Acts.




2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.


That not necessarily true, I know of many who were raised in a God fearing home and have no fear of God.

im not asking about whether somebody believe it or not, im talking about the people who already believe already chrsitain, the reason for their belief is their the environment, like many muslims (like my self), athiests or hindues.. im asking if the environment decieded for you what faith you will have it a blind faith, if there any proof to say the bible is from God or perhaps you have proofs to convince me go a head.


3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..

That is not true Jesus stated that He was from heaven

Jn:6:38: For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

so coming down from heaven makes him a God? he says in the second part of your sentence - "not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." so he came down to do God's will not his own.


There are other versus that support this but I"m not going to go there.

And He said many time He was of His Father in HeavenMt:7:21, Mt:11:25, Mt:24:36

so being "of the father" means God? "son of God" means God according to you? "of" has meaning you know.



I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

Why? From what you are posting, it seems to be missinforming.

i say to watch them because Ahmed Deedat (a muslim) debated many times with giants of christainity at his time.. to see the view of the opponent so you can learn both sides on one time arguing face to face... and Bart Ehrman is a famous scholar of the Bible worldwide known..... he debated with christains (he has a christain past) like Jmes White craige and many more who are apprecaited in the christain world, why not see the 2 view at one debate and decide what is true?


4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

Once saved one can grow in the Lord, the fulfillment in Christ is what God wants to take place, there is such thing as treasures in Heaven, He is or Great Reward. How did Apostle John say it, when we, (meaning the saved) see Him, we will be like Him. The Grace for all who are sons of Noah, has been fulfilled. Hence one must acknowledge what is their"s, in order to have it.

you didnt answer the question, ok why monk wasting time prasing all the years without marrying enjoying life, and a christain guy a normal guy who believes in the bible will get the same heaven? or the rapist? who done bad stuff?



5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...


Read the OT, there are many people that trusted the salvation of God, and never heard of Jesus Christ.

and what you say about the indians before colombus discovered america? whats their salvation?
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POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 10:47:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 8:39:49 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

no im talking about books inside the bible.. like the gospels, most scholars now days say they are anonymous, tradition says otherwise but its not academic approach its what people say.

or for example the book of Hebrews.. if you know James Whites he admits that the author of Hebrews is anonymous and he got no problem with that, well why not?

Dude, they found a copy of the Gospel of Luke dating back to the first century. Don't tell me that none of the Gospel writers met Jesus.

Copy of Luke dating to the first century? there is no such a thing. the oldest surviving copy is P52 a fragment of 3.5 by 2.5 inches (8.9 by 6 cm) from the second century, most copies comes after a thousand years of their original writing, its not my idea of my own desires this is what christain scholars telling us. its not my opinion. here Bart answeing this question if the Gospels contain eye witnesses:
https://www.youtube.com...



2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

A Muslim's the one to speak. Tell me sone fulfilled prophecies from the Quran or the Hadith or some other Islamic Text which isn't the Old Testament.

in the Quran and the Hadiths.. its full with prophecies believe me, but im here to ask if you are believe because of prophecies im certainly sure there are prophecies also in other religions like islam hinduism or perhaps in the chinese religions...

Let's see...
The Jews maintained its cultural, religious, and ethnic heritage for 2000 years. In fact, just staying alive after countless pogroms and the Holocaust is in itself a feat.
THEN, they established a nation and it stands today, despite being surrounded by crazy Muslim nations and having been attacked multiple times. They have become enormously successful for a state that:
1. Was founded in the Middle East
2. Has no known oil deposits
3. Has been in existence for slightly less than 70 years.

so its a prophecy? wow support weapons by america britain and france against arabs with camels and whips makes your prophecy being true? yeah calling them crazy muslims who the jews expelled them to be in live like a rubbish in Gaza (most densely populated area in the world). i dont want to get into politics its not the subject here sorry. so what you say if in other religion there are prophecies you will accept them as a divine origin? if its your way to decide you must accept also prophecies in other religions.


wait first of all historically from the first gospel (according to dating..) to the last one which is the gospel of John, there are evulotion of Jesus from merely human to God in some sense.. but even that there is no claim of Jesus of declaring to be God... its how you look and interpret it. "I AM" doesnt mean God, i think you reffaring to the old testmant where God says "I Am Who I Am", first in the hebrew langauge its not saying "i am" its your translations who put there "i am", the words thre simply say - i will be whatever i will be" (אהיה אשר אהיה/ aheya asher aheya") the word "i am" in Hebrew is "ani/אני". even if you translate it wrong putting there "i am" its has context, God only says " i am whatever i am" because Moses asked about him what hes name, and God says " i am whatever i am".

No offense, but what I see here is a whole bunch of numbers and symbols. But anyway, right after Jesus said this, the Pharisees tried to stone Him, meaning that He had said something they considered worthy of execution under their law, something blasphemous. Voila! There's your claim of divinity.

it cant write Hebrew words here.. anyway there is no "i am" in this passage... its should be "i will be" thats the correct words, if you dont trust me just translate it the hebrew words it to Google translation or ask a somebody who knows hebrew.

ok the Pharisees tried to stone Him because they thought he claiming to be a God in some sort, but the same happened in John 10:30, and every place in the bible where they tried to stone him, but read john 10:30 Jesus rebuked them its clear simple english juts go read it.


So the son God (Jesus) has a God who is the father right? beacuse he said "my god" so God has a God according to your explanation? and i dont get it, he was acting right? because he is God also the same person praying to himself. why he must pray to the father if he is God? thats doesnt make any sense.

Jesus, while equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, exalts the Father above Himself, taking on the role of the obedient son. And you must consider that at the time that Jesus said this, He was a man.

He was a man and not God at that time? you cant have the cake and it eat at the same time. God says "my god my god why you forsaking me" and he is the God for whom he pray for help?. irrational, so he must acting right? that is the implication. not only this one but in every place in the bible where Jesus pray or describing his father the only true God, Jesus being God is a contradicion according to Jesus himself actions and sayings.


if you read the next verses from 30 to 35 you will see jesus rebuked the jews for accusing Jesus to be God (in verse 31-32), read the verses before and after 10:30 he doesnt claiming to be God because of "i and my father are one".

Jesus was rebuking them for trying to kill Him. And in this very passage He admitted that He had (at least at some point) called Himself the Son of God.

when the Jews accused him claiming to be a God (blasphemy for them), Jesus says -
34 jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law (Torah), "I said, you are gods"? (Psalm 82:6)
35 If he (he = God, if Jesus was part of him he would say "I" or some sort like that including himself) called them gods to whom the word of God came (the Jews) "and Scripture cannot be broken (cannot contradict him, meaning he is not blasphemying)
36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God"? (Jesus rebuking them by their own law, the jews called "God" and he jesus only called "son of God" which is a lesser degree, so he saying why you have problem with me when others called God).

but wait the person who asked him is a Jew, how on earth he can know if Jesus is God or not in the first place? secondly you are changing the words from "there is none good but one, that is, God." TO "when you don't believe that I am God?" - so you putting words there to justify your claims. clearly jesus didnt mean that he says im not good only god is good.

As I have shown that Jesus had admitted to being God, the text of this verse shouldn't be translated to say what you think it says.

how you shown that Jesus admission to be God? he says why you call me good God is the only one who is good, thats telling you he is a God? -_-

It's kind of complicated and hard to explain, so perhaps you should find some Christian websites and get your answers there.
And I tried explaining here, but I quickly ran out of characters.

yeah i need to wipe out words here.. anyway i dont find a clear answer,

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

Like I said, perhaps they will have a chance after they die.

its your opinion, the bibke doesnt says so.
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LogicalLunatic
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9/25/2014 11:18:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 10:47:05 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 8:39:49 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

no im talking about books inside the bible.. like the gospels, most scholars now days say they are anonymous, tradition says otherwise but its not academic approach its what people say.

or for example the book of Hebrews.. if you know James Whites he admits that the author of Hebrews is anonymous and he got no problem with that, well why not?

Dude, they found a copy of the Gospel of Luke dating back to the first century. Don't tell me that none of the Gospel writers met Jesus.

Copy of Luke dating to the first century? there is no such a thing. the oldest surviving copy is P52 a fragment of 3.5 by 2.5 inches (8.9 by 6 cm) from the second century, most copies comes after a thousand years of their original writing, its not my idea of my own desires this is what christain scholars telling us. its not my opinion. here Bart answeing this question if the Gospels contain eye witnesses:
https://www.youtube.com...

http://www.cogwriter.com...: : :

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

A Muslim's the one to speak. Tell me sone fulfilled prophecies from the Quran or the Hadith or some other Islamic Text which isn't the Old Testament.

in the Quran and the Hadiths.. its full with prophecies believe me, but im here to ask if you are believe because of prophecies im certainly sure there are prophecies also in other religions like islam hinduism or perhaps in the chinese religions...

Let's see...
The Jews maintained its cultural, religious, and ethnic heritage for 2000 years. In fact, just staying alive after countless pogroms and the Holocaust is in itself a feat.
THEN, they established a nation and it stands today, despite being surrounded by crazy Muslim nations and having been attacked multiple times. They have become enormously successful for a state that:
1. Was founded in the Middle East
2. Has no known oil deposits
3. Has been in existence for slightly less than 70 years.

so its a prophecy? wow support weapons by america britain and france against arabs with camels and whips makes your prophecy being true? yeah calling them crazy muslims who the jews expelled them to be in live like a rubbish in Gaza (most densely populated area in the world). i dont want to get into politics its not the subject here sorry. so what you say if in other religion there are prophecies you will accept them as a divine origin? if its your way to decide you must accept also prophecies in other religions.

There are several inaccuracies in what you have said. First of all, the Gaza Strip is not the most densely populated region on Earth. That dubious honor goes to either Macau or a certain European city state (Monaco, I think it was). People are quite prosperous in Monaco, so a densely populated region isn't necessarily less prosperous.
Anyway, you exaggerate in describing the Israeli-Arab war. The Arabs were not armed solely with "camels and whips". They had what at the time was modern weaponry, as these were the armies of modern governments. Multiple governments. And the Jewish forces consisted mostly of either settlers or perhaps Holocaust survivors. They weren't armed with huge battleships or B-29 Superfortresses or anything that good. They probably weren't even a professional army.
Also, don't forget that it was the Arabs who rejected the Partition Plan and then attacked Israel. Many of the Palestinians fled the region expecting to come back whenever the Arabs had won. But alas, the Arabs lost. Thus, refugees. Of course, some of them actually were expelled by Jewish militia groups. But they were at war with the Israelis; by no means was it a one-sided attack.
Then, the Jews were attacked during the 6-Day War and the Yom Kippur War in 1973. The Jews were undeniably outnumbered during the Yom Kippur War. And nations like Cuba and even North Korea participated in the coalition. The U.S. provided support, but overall the Jews had to fight against overwhelming odds on their own; and they won. Israel is invincible.



wait first of all historically from the first gospel (according to dating..) to the last one which is the gospel of John, there are evulotion of Jesus from merely human to God in some sense.. but even that there is no claim of Jesus of declaring to be God... its how you look and interpret it. "I AM" doesnt mean God, i think you reffaring to the old testmant where God says "I Am Who I Am", first in the hebrew langauge its not saying "i am" its your translations who put there "i am", the words thre simply say - i will be whatever i will be" (אהיה אשר אהיה/ aheya asher aheya") the word "i am" in Hebrew is "ani/אני". even if you translate it wrong putting there "i am" its has context, God only says " i am whatever i am" because Moses asked about him what hes name, and God says " i am whatever i am".

No offense, but what I see here is a whole bunch of numbers and symbols. But anyway, right after Jesus said this, the Pharisees tried to stone Him, meaning that He had said something they considered worthy of execution under their law, something blasphemous. Voila! There's your claim of divinity.

it cant write Hebrew words here.. anyway there is no "i am" in this passage... its should be "i will be" thats the correct words, if you dont trust me just translate it the hebrew words it to Google translation or ask a somebody who knows hebrew.

ok the Pharisees tried to stone Him because they thought he claiming to be a God in some sort, but the same happened in John 10:30, and every place in the bible where they tried to stone him, but read john 10:30 Jesus rebuked them its clear simple english juts go read it.


So the son God (Jesus) has a God who is the father right? beacuse he said "my god" so God has a God according to your explanation? and i dont get it, he was acting right? because he is God also the same person praying to himself. why he must pray to the father if he is God? thats doesnt make any sense.

Jesus, while equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, exalts the Father above Himself, taking on the role of the obedient son. And you must consider that at the time that Jesus said this, He was a man.

He was a man and not God at that time? you cant have the cake and it eat at the same time. God says "my god my god why you forsaking me" and he is the God for whom he pray for help?. irrational, so he must acting right? that is the implication. not only this one but in every place in the bible where Jesus pray or describing his father the only true God, Jesus being God is a contradicion according to Jesus himself actions and sayings.


if you read the next verses from 30 to 35 you will see jesus rebuked the jews for accusing Jesus to be God (in verse 31-32), read the verses before and after 10:30 he doesnt claiming to be God because of "i and my father are one".

Jesus was rebuking them for trying to kill Him. And in this very passage He admitted that He had (at least at some point) called Himself the Son of God.

when the Jews accused him claiming to be a God (blasphemy for them), Jesus says -
34 jesus answered them, "Is it not written
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POPOO5560
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9/25/2014 11:44:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 11:18:17 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

There are several inaccuracies in what you have said. First of all, the Gaza Strip is not the most densely populated region on Earth. That dubious honor goes to either Macau or a certain European city state (Monaco, I think it was). People are quite prosperous in Monaco, so a densely populated region isn't necessarily less prosperous.
Anyway, you exaggerate in describing the Israeli-Arab war. The Arabs were not armed solely with "camels and whips". They had what at the time was modern weaponry, as these were the armies of modern governments. Multiple governments. And the Jewish forces consisted mostly of either settlers or perhaps Holocaust survivors. They weren't armed with huge battleships or B-29 Superfortresses or anything that good. They probably weren't even a professional army.
Also, don't forget that it was the Arabs who rejected the Partition Plan and then attacked Israel. Many of the Palestinians fled the region expecting to come back whenever the Arabs had won. But alas, the Arabs lost. Thus, refugees. Of course, some of them actually were expelled by Jewish militia groups. But they were at war with the Israelis; by no means was it a one-sided attack.
Then, the Jews were attacked during the 6-Day War and the Yom Kippur War in 1973. The Jews were undeniably outnumbered during the Yom Kippur War. And nations like Cuba and even North Korea participated in the coalition. The U.S. provided support, but overall the Jews had to fight against overwhelming odds on their own; and they won. Israel is invincible.

hhhhh what we are getting into politics fight? :D
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9/26/2014 12:23:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 11:44:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 11:18:17 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

There are several inaccuracies in what you have said. First of all, the Gaza Strip is not the most densely populated region on Earth. That dubious honor goes to either Macau or a certain European city state (Monaco, I think it was). People are quite prosperous in Monaco, so a densely populated region isn't necessarily less prosperous.
Anyway, you exaggerate in describing the Israeli-Arab war. The Arabs were not armed solely with "camels and whips". They had what at the time was modern weaponry, as these were the armies of modern governments. Multiple governments. And the Jewish forces consisted mostly of either settlers or perhaps Holocaust survivors. They weren't armed with huge battleships or B-29 Superfortresses or anything that good. They probably weren't even a professional army.
Also, don't forget that it was the Arabs who rejected the Partition Plan and then attacked Israel. Many of the Palestinians fled the region expecting to come back whenever the Arabs had won. But alas, the Arabs lost. Thus, refugees. Of course, some of them actually were expelled by Jewish militia groups. But they were at war with the Israelis; by no means was it a one-sided attack.
Then, the Jews were attacked during the 6-Day War and the Yom Kippur War in 1973. The Jews were undeniably outnumbered during the Yom Kippur War. And nations like Cuba and even North Korea participated in the coalition. The U.S. provided support, but overall the Jews had to fight against overwhelming odds on their own; and they won. Israel is invincible.

hhhhh what we are getting into politics fight? :D

Yup. Politics are great.
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DPMartin
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9/26/2014 10:17:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:39:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:16:26 PM, DPMartin wrote:

the 4 Gospels. book of Hebrews or Acts.


What is it about those books that are in error?



im not asking about whether somebody believe it or not, im talking about the people who already believe already chrsitain, the reason for their belief is their the environment, like many muslims (like my self), athiests or hindues.. im asking if the environment decieded for you what faith you will have it a blind faith, if there any proof to say the bible is from God or perhaps you have proofs to convince me go a head.

Many are agreeable to their environment, for social, family, business, and political reasons that they value, but the true believer in Jesus Christ believes as they do because they have called on God in the name of Jesus Christ, acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God, and their Lord and Savior, and are born of the Holy Spirit. And most of those true believers come to a piont in their lives where they have to call on the Lord and seek His mercy.


so being "of the father" means God? "son of God" means God according to you? "of" has meaning you know.

no, according to scripture

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Note the fist two versus, and note in 14 that the Word that is from God, the same the was in the beginning with God, was made flesh.

(Don"t bother to say that the Gospels are bogus, you"ve got to prove that, and scholars that say, means little these days because you can find a scholar that is saying anything you want. Over 1600 yr"s of scrutiny by the many in many generations, v"s a few rogue scholars doesn"t prove anything that changes what 1600 yr"s have done.)



i say to watch them because Ahmed Deedat (a muslim) debated many times with giants of christainity at his time.. to see the view of the opponent so you can learn both sides on one time arguing face to face... and Bart Ehrman is a famous scholar of the Bible worldwide known..... he debated with christains (he has a christain past) like Jmes White craige and many more who are apprecaited in the christain world, why not see the 2 view at one debate and decide what is true?


There are many Muslims that have coverted, to follow Jesus Christ, what's your piont?

you didnt answer the question, ok why monk wasting time prasing all the years without marrying enjoying life, and a christain guy a normal guy who believes in the bible will get the same heaven? or the rapist? who done bad stuff?

I just told you there is treasure in heaven, hence not everybody gets the same.


and what you say about the indians before colombus discovered america? whats their salvation?

Your kidding right? And how is it, the same will be aware of what you believe? And how is that fair?

Gen:4:26: And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

That would include your big consern for indians correct?

If you fancy yourself as some sort of Christian theology harasser, at least get a little more original.
12_13
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9/26/2014 4:09:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 8:59:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
what? anonymous forgeries additions interpolations are not good reasons?

Maybe, if they would be true. I think those claims are not true.

im sure reading the bible there are many stuff we should as humans to follow like the one you qouted but it just an idea.. islam says the same thing:
(prophet mohammed s.a.w said - "None of you will believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself.")

So, shouldn"t we then have all things well? People don"t really care about God (love him), because people don"t live as he has commanded. People are really in my opinion mainly unloving and evil and that I think is the main reason why they want to get rid of books that encourages to love.

but what the definition of "righteous" according to the bible?

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

but Pual says only your faith gonna save you, not your actions...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Paul really teaches same that is in the OT.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Righteous person is faithful to God. It means he stays loyal to God and keeps his words.

thats not making sense in certain way, what i mean is for example, lets say i born in a village in africa with some evil practices like incest... the society brainwashing us, how on earth i can see the right from the wrong? brainwashing makes one to see by the stuff they brainwashed... its not just "written in the heart"... in africa there are people walking naked without shame because its theIr practice they brainwashed by others (their older generations..) or if brainwash kids with some stuff, it will change their character and morality.. their right and wrong would be different from the law.

I don"t believe in brainwashing. I believe every person decides by himself what he thinks is good and right.

Every African person can also think by himself what is good and right and could come up to right conclusion. But it seems to me that many love more evil than good, even though they would know what is good and right.
POPOO5560
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9/26/2014 6:17:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 10:17:20 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:39:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:16:26 PM, DPMartin wrote:

the 4 Gospels. book of Hebrews or Acts.


What is it about those books that are in error?

The authors who wrote them are anonymous. its not a problem?




im not asking about whether somebody believe it or not, im talking about the people who already believe already chrsitain, the reason for their belief is their the environment, like many muslims (like my self), athiests or hindues.. im asking if the environment decieded for you what faith you will have it a blind faith, if there any proof to say the bible is from God or perhaps you have proofs to convince me go a head.


Many are agreeable to their environment, for social, family, business, and political reasons that they value, but the true believer in Jesus Christ believes as they do because they have called on God in the name of Jesus Christ, acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God, and their Lord and Savior, and are born of the Holy Spirit. And most of those true believers come to a piont in their lives where they have to call on the Lord and seek His mercy.

the same claims can be coming from a muslim or a hindu, proof is something else.



so being "of the father" means God? "son of God" means God according to you? "of" has meaning you know.

no, according to scripture

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Note the fist two versus, and note in 14 that the Word that is from God, the same the was in the beginning with God, was made flesh.

(Don"t bother to say that the Gospels are bogus, you"ve got to prove that, and scholars that say, means little these days because you can find a scholar that is saying anything you want. Over 1600 yr"s of scrutiny by the many in many generations, v"s a few rogue scholars doesn"t prove anything that changes what 1600 yr"s have done.)

this is what John wrote, trying to insert his Theology about christ, the gospel of John was the last gospel to be written, about 70 years after Jesus's death, the earlier gospels mattew mark luke are written before that, comparing the 4 gospel we can see the evulotion taking place of Jesus's position from mere human to some sort of divine.

yet taking the gospel of john and examing the actions and sayings of Jesus clearly he didnt claim to be God, 1 example is when the jews accused him claiming to be God in John 10:30 Jesus rebuked them, if you want examples i will show you plenty.




i say to watch them because Ahmed Deedat (a muslim) debated many times with giants of christainity at his time.. to see the view of the opponent so you can learn both sides on one time arguing face to face... and Bart Ehrman is a famous scholar of the Bible worldwide known..... he debated with christains (he has a christain past) like Jmes White craige and many more who are apprecaited in the christain world, why not see the 2 view at one debate and decide what is true?


There are many Muslims that have coverted, to follow Jesus Christ, what's your piont?

whats my point? my point is check the real evidence and look at it through the 2 views the pro and con, you know every coin has its other side.


you didnt answer the question, ok why monk wasting time prasing all the years without marrying enjoying life, and a christain guy a normal guy who believes in the bible will get the same heaven? or the rapist? who done bad stuff?


I just told you there is treasure in heaven, hence not everybody gets the same.

nobody gets the same? where did you get it from?



and what you say about the indians before colombus discovered america? whats their salvation?

Your kidding right? And how is it, the same will be aware of what you believe? And how is that fair?

i know my religion got the answer for that but here im talking about the bible not quran.


Gen:4:26: And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

That would include your big consern for indians correct?

If you fancy yourself as some sort of Christian theology harasser, at least get a little more original.

look again there are (and were) people who will never hear the massage of Jesus, people in some jungle desert or what not... if God is just he must just also to these people. if God is not concerned about them, he is unjust.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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9/26/2014 6:32:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 4:09:25 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 8:59:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
what? anonymous forgeries additions interpolations are not good reasons?

Maybe, if they would be true. I think those claims are not true.

its a facts, christain scholars saying that its not popoo's conspiracy theory.


im sure reading the bible there are many stuff we should as humans to follow like the one you qouted but it just an idea.. islam says the same thing:
(prophet mohammed s.a.w said - "None of you will believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself.")

So, shouldn"t we then have all things well? People don"t really care about God (love him), because people don"t live as he has commanded. People are really in my opinion mainly unloving and evil and that I think is the main reason why they want to get rid of books that encourages to love.

my point is no matter what commands good or bad evil or not, for that its not gonna make it true or from God.


but what the definition of "righteous" according to the bible?

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

dude not believing in Jesus (according to the new testament) you cant have salvation. righteous atheist wont go to heaven, you are making a new theology now.


but Pual says only your faith gonna save you, not your actions...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Paul really teaches same that is in the OT.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Righteous person is faithful to God. It means he stays loyal to God and keeps his words.

"but the righteous will live by his faith." in the new testament paul puts a condition that salvation is by faith alone.


thats not making sense in certain way, what i mean is for example, lets say i born in a village in africa with some evil practices like incest... the society brainwashing us, how on earth i can see the right from the wrong? brainwashing makes one to see by the stuff they brainwashed... its not just "written in the heart"... in africa there are people walking naked without shame because its theIr practice they brainwashed by others (their older generations..) or if brainwash kids with some stuff, it will change their character and morality.. their right and wrong would be different from the law.

I don"t believe in brainwashing. I believe every person decides by himself what he thinks is good and right.

Every African person can also think by himself what is good and right and could come up to right conclusion. But it seems to me that many love more evil than good, even though they would know what is good and right.

what? do you think the people in the jungles who walking naked commiting incest all day know what its wrong or not? the stuff you read the mentally you will have. right or wrong is changing according to owns persons mind.
Never fart near dog
DPMartin
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9/26/2014 7:17:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 6:17:19 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/26/2014 10:17:20 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:39:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:16:26 PM, DPMartin wrote:

the 4 Gospels. book of Hebrews or Acts.


What is it about those books that are in error?

The authors who wrote them are anonymous. its not a problem?



I"m not going to bother arguing with you, but you are wrong on that.


im not asking about whether somebody believe it or not, im talking about the people who already believe already chrsitain, the reason for their belief is their the environment, like many muslims (like my self), athiests or hindues.. im asking if the environment decieded for you what faith you will have it a blind faith, if there any proof to say the bible is from God or perhaps you have proofs to convince me go a head.


Many are agreeable to their environment, for social, family, business, and political reasons that they value, but the true believer in Jesus Christ believes as they do because they have called on God in the name of Jesus Christ, acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God, and their Lord and Savior, and are born of the Holy Spirit. And most of those true believers come to a piont in their lives where they have to call on the Lord and seek His mercy.

the same claims can be coming from a muslim or a hindu, proof is something else.


What claims? Proof of what? What planet are you from?

this is what John wrote, trying to insert his Theology about christ, the gospel of John was the last gospel to be written, about 70 years after Jesus's death, the earlier gospels mattew mark luke are written before that, comparing the 4 gospel we can see the evulotion taking place of Jesus's position from mere human to some sort of divine.


Now here"s where you have shown us you"re a liar. You just said previously said that "The authors who wrote them are anonymous " meaning the "4 gospels" therefore you talk out one side of your mouth "The authors who wrote them are anonymous " and then the other side you say "this is what John wrote, trying to insert his Theology about christ". You just stated that John was the writer. So its quite obvious that you will say anything if you think that person is stupid enough to believe it, hence what you say shouldn"t be trusted at all, correct?

you didnt answer the question, ok why monk wasting time prasing all the years without marrying enjoying life, and a christain guy a normal guy who believes in the bible will get the same heaven? or the rapist? who done bad stuff?


I just told you there is treasure in heaven, hence not everybody gets the same.

nobody gets the same? where did you get it from?



Look it up, what the Lord Jesus Christ says about treasure in the Kingdom of Heaven, also there are a few parables on the same concept of reward in Heaven. You can probably google it and find a on line bible to find it.


look again there are (and were) people who will never hear the massage of Jesus, people in some jungle desert or what not... if God is just he must just also to these people. if God is not concerned about them, he is unjust.

I"m sorry it doesn"t say here in Gen. that anyone knew the name of Jesus Christ to call upon the name of the Lord. Everyone is a descendant from Seth other than those from Cain. And all are from Noah who found Grace in God"s sight.
12_13
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9/29/2014 3:13:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 6:32:42 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
dude not believing in Jesus (according to the new testament) you cant have salvation. righteous atheist wont go to heaven, you are making a new theology now.

Righteous person don"t need salvation. Only unrighteous, sinful people need salvation.

But you go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Matt. 9:13

I am not making own theology. It was Jesus who said that eternal life is for righteous. And it is OT that says righteous will live by his faith.

Righteous person is faithful (=loyal) to God and that is why he gets the gift.

what? do you think the people in the jungles who walking naked commiting incest all day know what its wrong or not?

I think they could understand it. And maybe many understand, but want to do so anyway.
POPOO5560
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9/29/2014 8:22:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:13:53 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/26/2014 6:32:42 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
dude not believing in Jesus (according to the new testament) you cant have salvation. righteous atheist wont go to heaven, you are making a new theology now.

Righteous person don"t need salvation. Only unrighteous, sinful people need salvation.

But you go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Matt. 9:13

I am not making own theology. It was Jesus who said that eternal life is for righteous. And it is OT that says righteous will live by his faith.

Righteous person is faithful (=loyal) to God and that is why he gets the gift.

what? do you think the people in the jungles who walking naked commiting incest all day know what its wrong or not?

I think they could understand it. And maybe many understand, but want to do so anyway.

so in short you saying that a righteous atheist will go to heaven? if so whats the point believe in God then or any holy book... maybe my righteous is different from yours. anyway its not true according to the bible.
Never fart near dog
12_13
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9/30/2014 1:13:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 8:22:45 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
so in short you saying that a righteous atheist will go to heaven? if so whats the point believe in God then or any holy book... maybe my righteous is different from yours. anyway its not true according to the bible.

Yes, I think the point that Jesus made is that righteous atheist will have eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

However I don"t think any righteous person says that God is not real. It would be irrational claim, because no one could prove that.

Point of believing what the Bible tells is that it can show right understanding and way for person to live. (Love).

And the point I s also to tell people that sins have been forgiven.

And righteous person can be recognized by this:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
POPOO5560
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9/30/2014 2:43:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/30/2014 1:13:03 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/29/2014 8:22:45 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
so in short you saying that a righteous atheist will go to heaven? if so whats the point believe in God then or any holy book... maybe my righteous is different from yours. anyway its not true according to the bible.

Yes, I think the point that Jesus made is that righteous atheist will have eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

However I don"t think any righteous person says that God is not real. It would be irrational claim, because no one could prove that.

Point of believing what the Bible tells is that it can show right understanding and way for person to live. (Love).

And the point I s also to tell people that sins have been forgiven.

And righteous person can be recognized by this:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

dude you are talking parts of the bible and forgeting others... if you believe in the bible you talk all of it or not, not parts to suit yourself. righteousness according to the bible not our definitions, i dont know except you saying that athiests will end at heaven. if we muslims too will go to heaven right?
Never fart near dog
12_13
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10/1/2014 1:32:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/30/2014 2:43:21 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
dude you are talking parts of the bible and forgeting others... if you believe in the bible you talk all of it or not, not parts to suit yourself. righteousness according to the bible not our definitions, i dont know except you saying that athiests will end at heaven. if we muslims too will go to heaven right?

Jesus says in the Bible that eternal life is for righteous. That is why I say, if Muslim or atheist is righteous, he gets eternal life. Different thing is, are they really righteous. If not, they need forgiveness that is offered through Jesus.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And Bible defines righteous by this:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.

1 John 3:7-10

If anyone fulfils that definition, then they should be righteous, according to the Bible and get eternal life.

I think this is not my own teaching, but what the Bible tells.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/1/2014 1:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The muslims have you brainwashed. Do you live in a place where they will kill you if you say you do not believe the Quran and you beliieve Muhammed is a liar?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/1/2014 1:57:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you live in a place where the Muslims will kill you if you say you do not believe the Quran and you believe Muhammed was a liar who stunk like a rotting pig in the mud when he bit the dust?.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/1/2014 2:00:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:09:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

You obviously know very little of Catholic Theology. You are essentially asking protestants about Catholicism.

Catholic religkion is the same as Islam, it's a religion that is all about what you do in hope of making God owe you something. Islam is the same. And they have both been huge instruments of murder agaisnt Jews and Christians, Hitler was in bed with the Catholics in WW11 as the Catholics hoped to be the world religious organization under Hitler if he won.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/1/2014 2:02:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 2:00:10 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:09:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

You obviously know very little of Catholic Theology. You are essentially asking protestants about Catholicism.

Catholic religkion is the same as Islam, it's a religion that is all about what you do in hope of making God owe you something. Islam is the same. And they have both been huge instruments of murder agaisnt Jews and Christians, Hitler was in bed with the Catholics in WW11 as the Catholics hoped to be the world religious organization under Hitler if he won.

And lets not forget the Crusades of the Catholic church against Muslims. Catholics adn Muslims always fight to dominate the world.
POPOO5560
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10/1/2014 6:08:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 1:32:42 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/30/2014 2:43:21 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
dude you are talking parts of the bible and forgeting others... if you believe in the bible you talk all of it or not, not parts to suit yourself. righteousness according to the bible not our definitions, i dont know except you saying that athiests will end at heaven. if we muslims too will go to heaven right?

Jesus says in the Bible that eternal life is for righteous. That is why I say, if Muslim or atheist is righteous, he gets eternal life. Different thing is, are they really righteous. If not, they need forgiveness that is offered through Jesus.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And Bible defines righteous by this:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.

1 John 3:7-10

If anyone fulfils that definition, then they should be righteous, according to the Bible and get eternal life.

I think this is not my own teaching, but what the Bible tells.

ok what you say about these stuff?

paul says -
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

so its not thoruth works of rightous according to saint paul so you have to contradict him.

also -
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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10/1/2014 6:10:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 2:00:10 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:09:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:16:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I never saw direct answers about some questions on christianity and people trying to just dance around it. Here some

1 christian scholars telling us that there are many books in the bible whether it be anonymous or forgeries... or additions and interpolations... so why people still believing or including as part of the holy bible?...

2 if you born as christian you would believe the bible is from god... but how you can convince somebody? Any proof? If you say prophecies well maybe there are other prophecies in other holy books... if you faith is standing on your family's religion is just like following what people say around you... blind faith wouldnt convince people.

3 following the bible historically its quite clear that the original Jesus never claimed divinity it just what people attributed to him. Whether looking in the gospels or historically speaking...

For example jesus prayed on the cruss
"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" How god pray for himself or he must acting.
Or
Jesus rebuked the jews when they acussed him claiming to be a god in john 10:30.
Or
Jesus said : Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

There are many examples you got the point..
I encourage you to watch debates of Ahmed Deedat or Bart ehrman.

4 If our sins are forgiven for jesus's crussifiction, whats the point whether you are a monk reading the bible all day or regular christian or perhaps a rapist, all have salvation so the monk wasting his life praising god all day and not.. not marrying and stuff.. the normal guy just lives his life as everybody else and the rapist enjoying life and his final goal is heaven. Its irrational.

5 whats will happen to people who never heard Jesus? There are verses in the bible talking about that? One of bart ehrman debates, his opponent said 'i dont know'.... well maybe there are some answers...

You obviously know very little of Catholic Theology. You are essentially asking protestants about Catholicism.

Catholic religkion is the same as Islam, it's a religion that is all about what you do in hope of making God owe you something. Islam is the same. And they have both been huge instruments of murder agaisnt Jews and Christians, Hitler was in bed with the Catholics in WW11 as the Catholics hoped to be the world religious organization under Hitler if he won.

and you cant answer the questions so you shooting and dancing around the issue. please run away of the questions if you cant answer dont write in the first place.
Never fart near dog