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Make me an argument

LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/26/2014 3:26:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I don't "choose" to be an atheist anymore than I "choose" to disbelieve in fairies. I don't believe fairies exist because there is no evidence to suggest that they do. I don't believe God exists because...
- There is no evidence that God exists
- The Bible is a pure atrocity of monumental ignorance
- Nothing in the universe demonstrates anything but indifference to life
- Religions all seem to contradict themselves and show every indication of being the imagined constructs of men

Do you "choose" to believe that the sky isn't a plastic dome, or is there no evidence to suggest it to be other than a collection of gasses, drawn to Earth by gravity?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/26/2014 1:49:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

Why don't you go first?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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9/26/2014 1:52:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 3:26:19 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I don't "choose" to be an atheist anymore than I "choose" to disbelieve in fairies. I don't believe fairies exist because there is no evidence to suggest that they do. I don't believe God exists because...
- There is no evidence that God exists
- The Bible is a pure atrocity of monumental ignorance
- Nothing in the universe demonstrates anything but indifference to life
- Religions all seem to contradict themselves and show every indication of being the imagined constructs of men

Do you "choose" to believe that the sky isn't a plastic dome, or is there no evidence to suggest it to be other than a collection of gasses, drawn to Earth by gravity?

I always come into these threads thinking "I'm going to thoughtfully respond with why I'm an atheist." And then I see you've posted already.

So, yeah, what Beastt said.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/26/2014 4:30:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
...Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I believe in Bible God, because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible says, because it seems to be true about everything it says. I don"t believe people could have made it only by themselves, without God, because else even atheists would understand it.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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9/26/2014 4:41:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 4:30:04 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
...Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I believe in Bible God, because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible says, because it seems to be true about everything it says. I don"t believe people could have made it only by themselves, without God, because else even atheists would understand it.

And there's absolutely NOTHING circular about that, is there?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Skikx
Posts: 132
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9/26/2014 4:44:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

P1) If there is not enough evidence to suggest X exists, it is unreasonable to believe X exists.
P2) There is not enough evidence to suggest that any deity exists.
C) It is unreasonable to believe that any deity exists.
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/27/2014 11:10:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 4:41:38 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 9/26/2014 4:30:04 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
...Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I believe in Bible God, because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible says, because it seems to be true about everything it says. I don"t believe people could have made it only by themselves, without God, because else even atheists would understand it.

And there's absolutely NOTHING circular about that, is there?

I have created this post for people to post their arguments, not for everyone to bag on each other. You've got a dozen other forums where you can do that.
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/27/2014 11:58:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/26/2014 1:49:20 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
I am looking for the arguments of Atheists in particular but Christians as well. I want to know their reasoning behind Atheism and specifically. Why do you choose to be Atheist? Why do you choose your particular branch of religion? I keep seeing many people who get angry because they are unable to get their argument across and so I want to see all of these arguments in one place where they can be seen clearly. This would help me in understanding where people stand on religion and why. Otherwise none of us are really getting anywhere with each other besides making each other angry and making everyone frustrated. Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

Why don't you go first?

I actually thought that someone would say that. I didn't have enough time as I was on school computers but here we go.

I am going to break this down into three sections. First, why I believe in a being at all. Second, my reasoning behind Christianity. Third, why I am a Mormon.

1. I have lived for a whole of 16 years and 2 months. While this is not a very long amount of time, I have lived a very difficult and vigorous life in those short years. More than once I have reflected on the fact that I would be justified in believing that any deity would be sick and twisted. This is not the case, as I have seen. Now, I am a very factual person. One of my favorite quotes from a Ted Talk was show me the data. Prove it. Then I look at several things. First, is an analogy I heard. Let us say there is a cosmic printer that prints out copies of planets. In order to get Earth as we have it, it is less than one chance in 10 to the 139th power (ten thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion) exists that Earth would occur anywhere in the universe.(http://www.mankinds-last-hope.org...) Then, even after these odds, I still think that there is a chance and the universe is so huge that it would make sense. Then you ask the question, what or who is this cosmic printer? Something had to put us down here. Without a celestial being existing, we have absolutely no explanation. The big bang had to be set off, so who did it? It didn't just decide one fateful day that, "I'm going to create all the universe now". Then I still look at science, and science says two recurring things. The law of conservation of mass and the law of conservation of energy. Well, according to these laws, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Thus, how does a sudden explosion of matter and energy make any sense? That is, unless it is possible for something beyond nature to create it. All the evidence we have seen solidifies the idea that nothing in the physical world can do anything to create or destroy matter. What you get is what you got. So if this is the case, then it is either that the universe has always existed or that all matter and energy was created by someone or something. I chose the latter.

2. Many times, I have seen in the history books the horribleness of Christians in the Dark Ages. I wonder how people who had a book that said to love one another was contorted to profit men of power. Then I look at the history of humans. In almost every society, someone will use the major religion of the era to further themselves, thus making Christianity just another victim to politicians. Then, if you look at the time just after the Dark Ages, this religious hold on the European Continent seemed to shatter. I look to see what did the shattering and the Protestant Revolution seemed to be the likely culprit. We see how the religions of the time became more about thinking for yourself, reading for yourself, and praying for yourself. That people should figure it out for themselves. This idea led me to think better of Christianity but the largest factor in my focus on Christianity is two things. The Bible and the Holy Ghost. I have read much of the Bible, both Old and New Testament. What I found when I read was peace. Now, LostintheEcho, where is the data for peace? The data I found was from doing something unexpected. I spent most of my childhood doing what I should and being overall righteous and so had the spirit with me almost always. The data was when I was unrighteous. I could feel the spirit telling me, urging me, to stop whatever it was and do what was right. I could quite literally feel it in my gut. Then, if I did what I should not have and did not repent, then I could feel this gift rescinded. As a child, I was(and hope I still am)wickedly smart and extremely knowledgeable for my age. I now credit the Holy Spirit because as of recent I did something I should not have and have a feeling of stupor whenever I try to learn. It is like there is a cloud on my thoughts and it won't break. I looked to see an explanation which I found in the New Testament and the Mormon Church's Doctrine and Covenants. I do not have the exact verses for this but on one occasion it said that if something is of God, you will feel a burning in your bosom but if it was not of God you would have a stupor of thought. That brought me to conclude on why I was in the stupor but not how I gained my smarts. So, upon further reading, I found the gifts. There are certain gifts that God gives to us. Some are the gifts of tongues, wisdom, understanding, and in my case, knowledge. While I know this section is for Christianity, but I use this not further my case for Mormonism but for Christianity as it was pertaining to scripture from Christ. I move on as I am running out of space.

3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, otherwise known as Mormonism, is the religion that I believe. Many people have asked me why that is. I will refer back to Christianity to prove my point here but that is a little later. Many times in Mormon church, every first Sunday to be exact, we are asked to give our testimony. A testimony is a statement of what you believe. Many times I have seen people go to give theirs and have given mine on occasion. The one thing they ask us in Sunday School, however, is do you believe that the Book of Mormon is true? If the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith was a true prophet, his church is true, and all of its teachings are true. To find if the book is true, we are challenged in the beginning and end of the book to read it, pray of it, and find out for ourselves if it is true. To ponder what it says and seek to find the truth. Thus, I did as the challenge suggested, and found that the Book of Mormon is true through personal revelation. Then we go to show me the data. How do we know that it should even exist or could exist? I have three things that I use to understand the probability that the Book of Mormon is of God. Joseph Smith spent about 65 working days to complete the BoM. Now some people think he must be some mad genius but I remember meeting a missionary who had the same level of education as Joseph Smith which was a 2nd or 3rd grade education, I am unsure. Either way, he told me that there was no possible way for Joseph Smith to have written that book. A book that has an intricate story that reconnects to itself without any mistakes and ties in to the Bible made in 65 days? The first Harry Potter book took longer than that to make. Then there are the artifacts. Weapons made of steel and paintings that show white men fighting dark men that were created long before the explorers. Lastly, my own experiences and the Holy Ghost. I do not know if I had grown up differently then I may not be a Christian but I am grateful for my own experiences and the strength of my belief.
Your turn DPMartin.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/29/2014 3:14:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:10:39 AM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/26/2014 4:41:38 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 9/26/2014 4:30:04 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
...Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I believe in Bible God, because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible says, because it seems to be true about everything it says. I don"t believe people could have made it only by themselves, without God, because else even atheists would understand it.

And there's absolutely NOTHING circular about that, is there?

I have created this post for people to post their arguments, not for everyone to bag on each other. You've got a dozen other forums where you can do that.

Thanks :)
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/29/2014 10:33:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:14:36 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:10:39 AM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/26/2014 4:41:38 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 9/26/2014 4:30:04 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 5:19:43 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
...Make your argument and show us what makes you believe what you do.

I believe in Bible God, because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible says, because it seems to be true about everything it says. I don"t believe people could have made it only by themselves, without God, because else even atheists would understand it.

And there's absolutely NOTHING circular about that, is there?

I have created this post for people to post their arguments, not for everyone to bag on each other. You've got a dozen other forums where you can do that.

Thanks :)

Absolutely no problem :)