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Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true

Beastt
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9/27/2014 11:46:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Since there are at least four demonstrably false claims in just the first 17-verses of Genesis, one would have to conclude that the Bible is no where near entirely true.

Earth before stars? False
Water before an atmosphere? False
Liquid water before the sun? False
Plants before the sun? False

In fact, the Bible is known to contain known forgeries (such as the Johannine Comma, known fables such as the Pericope Adulteraea and false claims such as those above.

So no, absolutely not.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/28/2014 12:34:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

I have yet to come across a logical/philosophical argument for this yet, even if the argument is bunk.

I have come across plenty of arguments for the existence of a god, but none for the inerrancy of the bible.
Beastt
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9/28/2014 1:13:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The point is, if we can show even one falsehood in the Bible, then it's not entirely true. And the book contains hundreds of demonstrably false claims. Many of these are easy to show to be purely false... like fruit trees growing on an Earth which is more than 400 degrees below zero. (Gen 1:11-12/Gen 1:14-17)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
mendel
Posts: 73
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9/28/2014 3:11:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:46:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
Since there are at least four demonstrably false claims in just the first 17-verses of Genesis, one would have to conclude that the Bible is no where near entirely true.

Earth before stars? False

False! so presumptuous whys that false

Water before an atmosphere? False

Learn the bible with the talmud and midrash and you'll clearly see that the atmosphere was there from day one.

Liquid water before the sun? False

Whith what proof do you say that

Plants before the sun? False

There was clearly a source of light at the bible says there was night and day, the talmud explains what a special light it was that will be returned with the messiah.

All that's clear is that beastt is a presumptuous fellow totally not interested in considering the possibility of the truth of the bible.

In fact, the Bible is known to contain known forgeries (such as the Johannine Comma, known fables such as the Pericope Adulteraea and false claims such as those above.

I'm not gonna defend the christian bible.

So no, absolutely not.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/28/2014 3:31:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Yes, I noted that.

There will be one day, but so far there is no way of gathering evidence about some of teh things it tells us.

However, because it has so far proven to be historically, prophetically and scientifically accurate in as far as it touches on science, including things which could not possibly be known by human beings at the time, then people like myself, including a number of scientists in fields as diverse as microbiology, engineering and space research, feel that it can only be the word of someone who does know these things which can only be the creator himself, Jehovah, the God and Father of the one who became the Christ when he walked the earth in human form.

Since it has proven itself beyond reasonable doubt to be the word of God, it can only be 100% true.

Therefore, it is simply down to whether or not you accept the evidence which exists, though many refuse to.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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9/28/2014 3:45:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:31:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Yes, I noted that.

There will be one day, but so far there is no way of gathering evidence about some of teh things it tells us.

However, because it has so far proven to be historically, prophetically and scientifically accurate in as far as it touches on science, including things which could not possibly be known by human beings at the time, then people like myself, including a number of scientists in fields as diverse as microbiology, engineering and space research, feel that it can only be the word of someone who does know these things which can only be the creator himself, Jehovah, the God and Father of the one who became the Christ when he walked the earth in human form.

Did you not see the examples Beastt just gave, in which the Bible is scientifically inaccurate? Did all your science buddies overlook the blatantly incorrect assertions the Bible makes?

Since it has proven itself beyond reasonable doubt to be the word of God, it can only be 100% true.

There is no proof whatsoever that God exists, ergo any proof of his 'word' is also false.

Therefore, it is simply down to whether or not you accept the evidence which exists, though many refuse to.

You have presented no evidence. I refuse to accept your lack of evidence as fact.
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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9/28/2014 3:52:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The bible doesn't even get local geography correct. It's an absolutely shamefully bad document for anything concerning real facts about the world.

Essentially nothing is correct.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/28/2014 5:10:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:11:20 PM, mendel wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:46:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
Since there are at least four demonstrably false claims in just the first 17-verses of Genesis, one would have to conclude that the Bible is no where near entirely true.

Earth before stars? False

False! so presumptuous whys that false
This is pretty typical. You're insisting that it's not false, even before you have a clue why it is false.
It's false because Earth is composed of 92 naturally occurring elements and 89 of those elements were fused in stars. So stars existed before Earth.

Water before an atmosphere? False

Learn the bible with the talmud and midrash and you'll clearly see that the atmosphere was there from day one.
Read Genesis and you'll clearly see that it wasn't. Genesis claims the atmosphere was there on Day-2 (Gen 1:6-7), but the Earth was formed covered in water (Gen 1:2).

Liquid water before the sun? False

Whith what proof do you say that
This one is pretty simple. The mean temperature of space is -454 degrees Fahrenheit. Without the sun, the Earth would be only slightly warmer than that. Water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit, meaning the water would be hundreds of degrees below freezing... yet liquid.

Plants before the sun? False

There was clearly a source of light at the bible says there was night and day, the talmud explains what a special light it was that will be returned with the messiah.
Your problem isn't just light (which the Bible claims existed without a source). Your main problem is heat... as in... you don't have any. So this leaves grasses, herbs and fruit trees (plants which are very sensitive to temperature), growing in temperatures of less than 400 degrees below zero.

All that's clear is that beastt is a presumptuous fellow totally not interested in considering the possibility of the truth of the bible.
What's clear is that you didn't even have a clue what I was talking about, yet you were more than willing to claim it was all false. None of it was false. And then, just to show that you operate completely on emotional subjectivity, you added this slur against my person.

In fact, the Bible is known to contain known forgeries (such as the Johannine Comma, known fables such as the Pericope Adulteraea and false claims such as those above.

I'm not gonna defend the christian bible.
So why did you try to defend Genesis when you obviously didn't even have a clue why the things I mentioned HAVE TO BE false?

So no, absolutely not.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/28/2014 5:13:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:31:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Yes, I noted that.

There will be one day, but so far there is no way of gathering evidence about some of teh things it tells us.

However, because it has so far proven to be historically, prophetically and scientifically accurate in as far as it touches on science, including things which could not possibly be known by human beings at the time, then people like myself, including a number of scientists in fields as diverse as microbiology, engineering and space research, feel that it can only be the word of someone who does know these things which can only be the creator himself, Jehovah, the God and Father of the one who became the Christ when he walked the earth in human form.

Since it has proven itself beyond reasonable doubt to be the word of God, it can only be 100% true.

Therefore, it is simply down to whether or not you accept the evidence which exists, though many refuse to.

Of course you're completely aware that pretty much everything you've said here has already been shown to be false. But somehow, you still believe that God exists and will reward the most gullible for their lack of integrity.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/28/2014 5:35:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course your going to get what many here don"t believe, its their self calling in life, but actual proof? Probably not.

You might go to a catholic web site and ask there, if there"s any "proof" in respect to accuracy, they would most likely have it.

It"s trusted by the faithful, that God can see to it that the scriptures are sufficient to know the Truth of God.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/28/2014 5:39:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 5:35:24 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course your going to get what many here don"t believe, its their self calling in life, but actual proof? Probably not.

You might go to a catholic web site and ask there, if there"s any "proof" in respect to accuracy, they would most likely have it.

It"s trusted by the faithful, that God can see to it that the scriptures are sufficient to know the Truth of God.

Or... the lack of truth in the scriptures which is easy to see for anyone willing to accept the truth rather than their favorite myth.

The first step is to recognize that there is no connection between God and the Bible.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/28/2014 6:18:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 5:39:28 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 5:35:24 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course your going to get what many here don"t believe, its their self calling in life, but actual proof? Probably not.

You might go to a catholic web site and ask there, if there"s any "proof" in respect to accuracy, they would most likely have it.

It"s trusted by the faithful, that God can see to it that the scriptures are sufficient to know the Truth of God.

Or... the lack of truth in the scriptures which is easy to see for anyone willing to accept the truth rather than their favorite myth.

The first step is to recognize that there is no connection between God and the Bible.

Thanks for informing everyone what you don"t believe, about religion and the discussions and documents of and about religion. It"s important that we all know what you don"t believe about what the OP asked about. You have fulfilled your self calling.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/28/2014 6:25:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:18:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/28/2014 5:39:28 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 5:35:24 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course your going to get what many here don"t believe, its their self calling in life, but actual proof? Probably not.

You might go to a catholic web site and ask there, if there"s any "proof" in respect to accuracy, they would most likely have it.

It"s trusted by the faithful, that God can see to it that the scriptures are sufficient to know the Truth of God.

Or... the lack of truth in the scriptures which is easy to see for anyone willing to accept the truth rather than their favorite myth.

The first step is to recognize that there is no connection between God and the Bible.

Thanks for informing everyone what you don"t believe, about religion and the discussions and documents of and about religion. It"s important that we all know what you don"t believe about what the OP asked about. You have fulfilled your self calling.

And thank you for showing everyone that you're too cowardly to even attempt to defend your beliefs. This indicates that you likely realize they're completely indefensible, but you're still willing to condemn people who are more honest than yourself, and are actually willing to admit that religion is mere superstitious bullcrap.

You see, it's not just about what I believe. It's about what's true. For you, it's just about belief and trying to force reality to fit with your beliefs. For me, it's about learning about reality, and accepting reality as my belief.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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9/28/2014 6:54:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:25:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 6:18:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/28/2014 5:39:28 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 5:35:24 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course your going to get what many here don"t believe, its their self calling in life, but actual proof? Probably not.

You might go to a catholic web site and ask there, if there"s any "proof" in respect to accuracy, they would most likely have it.

It"s trusted by the faithful, that God can see to it that the scriptures are sufficient to know the Truth of God.

Or... the lack of truth in the scriptures which is easy to see for anyone willing to accept the truth rather than their favorite myth.

The first step is to recognize that there is no connection between God and the Bible.

Thanks for informing everyone what you don"t believe, about religion and the discussions and documents of and about religion. It"s important that we all know what you don"t believe about what the OP asked about. You have fulfilled your self calling.

And thank you for showing everyone that you're too cowardly to even attempt to defend your beliefs. This indicates that you likely realize they're completely indefensible, but you're still willing to condemn people who are more honest than yourself, and are actually willing to admit that religion is mere superstitious bullcrap.

You see, it's not just about what I believe. It's about what's true. For you, it's just about belief and trying to force reality to fit with your beliefs. For me, it's about learning about reality, and accepting reality as my belief.

I"m sorry, was I supposed to do something you want, and care about it? Is that some entitlement you have because you posted something? You are kidding right?

There"s no reason to talk to someone that assumes everything he doesn"t think is wrong. Assuming of course that you call yourself an atheist, and it"s the atheist"s position that he thinks for himself, therefore what he thinks is the only valued opinion in his own mind, and any thing he doesn"t think, or disagrees with what he thinks, has to be wrong. You know, correct about what he thinks, but doesn"t know what he thinks is incorrect.

And if you want to say that I take the position that anything that doesn"t agree with what the Lord God thinks says or does? You are right, your are correct, absolutely.
Beastt
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9/28/2014 7:20:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:54:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 9/28/2014 6:25:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 6:18:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:

I"m sorry, was I supposed to do something you want, and care about it? Is that some entitlement you have because you posted something? You are kidding right?
It's a debate forum. Yet we find you cowering behind your desk shooting spit wads, and refusing to stand up and address any specific issues. It's clear that you hate atheists and yet do not understand them. Perhaps if you weren't so afraid to actually test your ideas, you'd figure out why atheists, are atheists.

There"s no reason to talk to someone that assumes everything he doesn"t think is wrong. Assuming of course that you call yourself an atheist, and it"s the atheist"s position that he thinks for himself, therefore what he thinks is the only valued opinion in his own mind, and any thing he doesn"t think, or disagrees with what he thinks, has to be wrong. You know, correct about what he thinks, but doesn"t know what he thinks is incorrect.
Your error is to assume that this is about opinions. It isn't. There is no objective evidence for God - NONE! See? That's not an opinion. That's a reality. There is no connection between God and the Bible. The texts of the Bible were written by men, debated by men, selected by men (not even unanimously among Christians), and proclaimed to be "the word of God" BY MEN. That's not an opinion either. That's a reality. The Bible contains numerous false claims, misrepresentations of history, fables, fallacies and forgeries. That's not an opinion. That's a reality.
So deal with these realities, or go waste your time on www.hatefulcowering.org.

And if you want to say that I take the position that anything that doesn"t agree with what the Lord God thinks says or does? You are right, your are correct, absolutely.
You have no idea what "the Lord God" thinks, says or does. You have no way to know. You can no more tell us what "the Lord God" thinks, says or does, than you can tell us what the life forms at the core of Uranus think say or do. All you have are the superstitious writings of men, selected by different men, opposed by many of those men (all of whom were Christians), and subsequently claimed as "the word of God". And yet God had absolutely no part in any of it.

Reality, not opinion.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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9/28/2014 7:36:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course there is proof. You die because you have sinned against God. That's the first proof.

Second, Every prophecy of the Bible either was fullfilled in the timeframe foretold (proving the prophet was speaking in obedience to God, the test for a prophet in the Bible was 100 percent accuracy and death the penalty for claiming to be a prophet but having less than 100 percent accuracy). The prophecies of the Bible regarding the future as told by the prophets who God endorsed by acting according to the Word He gave His prophets, will be fullfillled in the future. We can see the world lining up more and more to fulfill the prophecies of God's dealings with all of the nations and people of the world. Thousands of years ago the Bible said that the Jews would be dispersed throughout the world, and in the end times they would return to their land and all of the armies of the world will come up against them in battle. Russia, China, and all of the Arab nations are making their alliances and plans for the upcoming battles as foretold by the Bible.

If you come to know God personally through Jesus Christ who is God the Creator who came down from heaven to die in your place to save you from Hell, you will understand that He always has been and always will be true to His Word and His Word never has, never does, and never will fail People fail. God does not fail.
Beastt
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9/28/2014 7:48:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 7:36:12 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course there is proof. You die because you have sinned against God. That's the first proof.
People have been dying since long before anyone ever thought to imagine the Christian God.

Second, Every prophecy of the Bible either was fullfilled in the timeframe foretold (proving the prophet was speaking in obedience to God
That's not true at all. In the Bible God tells Adam that if he eats of the fruit, he will die that same day. Adam eats the fruit and lives another 900-years.

In Matthew 16:27-28, the Bible claims that Jesus was to return for the rapture (to reward each man according to his works), before all of the disciples died. This was echoed in Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32 and Matthew 24:34. The last of the disciples died some 1,900-years ago. No rapture.

the test for a prophet in the Bible was 100 percent accuracy and death the penalty for claiming to be a prophet but having less than 100 percent accuracy). The prophecies of the Bible regarding the future as told by the prophets who God endorsed by acting according to the Word He gave His prophets, will be fullfillled in the future. We can see the world lining up more and more to fulfill the prophecies of God's dealings with all of the nations and people of the world. Thousands of years ago the Bible said that the Jews would be dispersed throughout the world, and in the end times they would return to their land and all of the armies of the world will come up against them in battle. Russia, China, and all of the Arab nations are making their alliances and plans for the upcoming battles as foretold by the Bible.
You're focusing on verses in the Bible to which actual events have been twisted to match. Oahspe, the Qur'an and most other religious books do the same thing, and also claim fulfilled prophecy.

Your task is to focus on those which obviously have not been fulfilled.

If you come to know God personally through Jesus Christ who is God the Creator who came down from heaven to die in your place to save you from Hell, you will understand that He always has been and always will be true to His Word and His Word never has, never does, and never will fail People fail. God does not fail.
You don't know God, Jesus likely never existed, and you're just spewing what you've been convinced you're supposed to believe, in order to be a "good person".

And, if LifeMeansGodIsGood, what does "death" mean?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/28/2014 8:37:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 7:48:00 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/28/2014 7:36:12 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

Of course there is proof. You die because you have sinned against God. That's the first proof.
People have been dying since long before anyone ever thought to imagine the Christian God.

Second, Every prophecy of the Bible either was fullfilled in the timeframe foretold (proving the prophet was speaking in obedience to God
That's not true at all. In the Bible God tells Adam that if he eats of the fruit, he will die that same day. Adam eats the fruit and lives another 900-years.

In Matthew 16:27-28, the Bible claims that Jesus was to return for the rapture (to reward each man according to his works), before all of the disciples died. This was echoed in Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32 and Matthew 24:34. The last of the disciples died some 1,900-years ago. No rapture.

the test for a prophet in the Bible was 100 percent accuracy and death the penalty for claiming to be a prophet but having less than 100 percent accuracy). The prophecies of the Bible regarding the future as told by the prophets who God endorsed by acting according to the Word He gave His prophets, will be fullfillled in the future. We can see the world lining up more and more to fulfill the prophecies of God's dealings with all of the nations and people of the world. Thousands of years ago the Bible said that the Jews would be dispersed throughout the world, and in the end times they would return to their land and all of the armies of the world will come up against them in battle. Russia, China, and all of the Arab nations are making their alliances and plans for the upcoming battles as foretold by the Bible.
You're focusing on verses in the Bible to which actual events have been twisted to match. Oahspe, the Qur'an and most other religious books do the same thing, and also claim fulfilled prophecy.

Your task is to focus on those which obviously have not been fulfilled.

If you come to know God personally through Jesus Christ who is God the Creator who came down from heaven to die in your place to save you from Hell, you will understand that He always has been and always will be true to His Word and His Word never has, never does, and never will fail People fail. God does not fail.
You don't know God, Jesus likely never existed, and you're just spewing what you've been convinced you're supposed to believe, in order to be a "good person".

And, if LifeMeansGodIsGood, what does "death" mean?

Matthew 16:27-28 was spoken by Jesus shorlty before He took Peter, James, and John up into the mountain where He revealed His Glory to them. Jesus was always in His kingdom but the disciples did not understand or believe Him fully before His resurrection. He fullfilled His prophecy that some of His disciples would not taste death before they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom when He was transfigured in front of Peter, James and John revealing His glory as God to them.

Mark 13:30 was the conlusion of Jesus's desciption of what would happen in the future, as he began this paragraph in Mark 13:34. To say Jesus was talking about the current generation and not a future generation is just plain ignorant. Mark 13:30 is referring to the generation that sees the great tribulation. This is a future prophecy that has not yet been fullfilled but will be and it is obvious by the way things are lining up in the world that the time is near. We may or may not be the last generation before when the rapture occurs, you as an unbeliever may or may not be in the last generation that will be left on earth to die in or suffer through the Great Tribulation that is coming.

Again, in Luke 21:32, the "this generation" Jesus was referring to was a future generation as He made clear in verse 8 after Jesus was asked about signs of when things would happen in the future. Jesus went on to tell about events of the last days, The "this generation" He refereed to was clearly the generation alive in the time of that future prophecy. Again, Mathew 24: and verse 34 is talking about the generation that witnesses the fullfilling of the prophecies He gave for the end times.

The Beast in the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is part of the ungodly imitation trinity. The Beast in this post acts in the spirit of anti-christ trying to obscure and change God's Word by twisting meanings and taking things out of context, comparing things in the Bible that are not comparable to each other based on their context.

I encourage all readers to open their Bibles and read these passages for themselves.

The Quran says you will bow and say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his prophet or you will be put to death. Is that a prophecy from God? The Quran is totally ruled out by Jesus Christ and the Bible. The Quran tries to change Jesus into a subservient of Muhammed. The Quran does not compare to the Bible in any way other than to show that they cannot both be true.

Somebody who cannot see the differences in the prophecies discussed here relating to the words of Jesus in the gospels is not qualified to teach Bible.

Notice how this guy who tries to change the Bible ignores the facts of Israel and the unavoidable wars that are coming and will be fought over Israel as foretold by the Bible.
The Jewish people and nation are proof of the Bibles veracity. So we have the fact that we die, the fullfilled prophecies and the prophecies that will be fullfilled, and the entire history of the jewish people ......including their return to Israel after they had been dispersed thoughout the world for thousands of years. The promises of God to bless all the families of the earth through israel are the reason Israel is always targeted for destruction. The enemy of God thinks they can eliminate God's rule by eliminating his promised means of fulfilling His Word, so they think they can and will forever destroy Israel and forever prevent them from being a nation. God has plans for Israel which were foretold thousands of years ago and He will stop the armies of the world which are trying to stop His plan and take over His world and His creation. Dumb enemies of God.
Troublesome times are here, filling men's hearts with fear
Freedom we all hold dear, now is at stake.
Humbling our hearts toward God, spared from the chastening rod,
Seek the way Pilgrims trod, Christians awake!

Jesus is coming soon, morning or night, or noon.
Many will meet their doom, trumpets will sound.
All of the dead shall rise,
righteous meet in the skies.
going where noone dies,
heaven-ward bound.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/28/2014 8:39:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

You can believe God or call Him a liar, that's up to you. You won't win by saying He is not true to His Word. His Word will remain forever. All words agaisnt Him will fail forever.
bulproof
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9/28/2014 8:45:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:39:11 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

You can believe God or call Him a liar, that's up to you. You won't win by saying He is not true to His Word. His Word will remain forever. All words agaisnt Him will fail forever.
Why don't you try this thread?
http://www.debate.org...
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/28/2014 8:56:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

People say there are errors and discrpencies in the Bible because they want to believe they have an excuse for hating God. What they say are errors and discrepencies are not. The things they point at have to be taken out of context and/or read from a hypothecial viewpoint which excludes explanations contrary to the hypothesis.
God keeps His Word, and He guided specially chosen men to record it and He preserved it throughout the centuries and we have it today in English in the King James Bible. I am not going to get into a lengthy argument with the atheists on this topic. It is not a big thing when you know God has given you His Word and told you to pass it on for you to obey God and do it. He keeps His Word and He preserved it in spite of people like the anti-christs who speak against Him and the multtudes of people who tried to change His Word or make fraudulent imitations of it thoughout History.
The Word of God is an heirloom initiated and preserved by God Himself. It has been correctly tranlated into English by men who knew God personally as you can know Him today.

If you will not believe God's Word, you will not believe God's Word. That is your choice.
It is easy to believe lies when you know the truth will change your life and put you at odds with old time friends and family. People spend their lives and make carreers out of fabricating lies against God. God never has, never does, and never will lie. Let God be true but every man a liar.

God proves Himself and He keeps His Word. If you say there is no proof, you will always believe lies. You are free to believe lies and liars. God gave you that freedom. You are responsible for who and what you choose to beleive. You will give account to God for every word, thought, action, and imagination regardless of what you believe.
You will be saved from Hell through faith in God's atoning blood in God the Son, Jesus Christ (I suggest you research the meaning of "atonement") or you will be lost to Hell.
Who thinks they know God is not there ? When are you going to prove it? Who thinks their word is better than God's Word? When are you going to prove it? Who thinks there is no Hell? when are you going to prove it? God proves Himself. If you say He does not, the burden of proof on you is impossible to meet. I cannot prove God proves Himself, but I know He always has, always will, and always does. If you will not beleive God proves Himself, you will never know God, and you will deny He is good in Hell, the same as you deny He is good now.
Beastt
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9/28/2014 9:36:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:37:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/28/2014 7:48:00 PM, Beastt wrote:

Matthew 16:27-28 was spoken by Jesus shorlty before He took Peter, James, and John up into the mountain where He revealed His Glory to them. Jesus was always in His kingdom but the disciples did not understand or believe Him fully before His resurrection. He fullfilled His prophecy that some of His disciples would not taste death before they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom when He was transfigured in front of Peter, James and John revealing His glory as God to them.

Sorry, no. You're simply ignoring the parts of the prophecy which don't fit the transfiguration. Jesus said he would return to reward each man according to his works. That didn't happen at the transfiguration. That's referring to the rapture.


Mark 13:30 was the conlusion of Jesus's desciption of what would happen in the future, as he began this paragraph in Mark 13:34. To say Jesus was talking about the current generation and not a future generation is just plain ignorant.
If I tell you that you will die "this week", is there any question what week I'm talking about?
If I tell you the average temperature of the planet will be two-tenths of a degree higher "this year", than it was last year, are you left to puzzle, which year is meant by "this year"?

Obviously not. Does it somehow make you feel better about your stupidity and gullibility to suggest that I'm "ignorant"? Have a look, silly. Obviously, the scholars who read and studied the scriptures in order to divide them into chapter and verse saw fit to separate that prophecy from the transfiguration, and the prophecy includes the rewarding of men in accordance to their works, which is not part of the transfiguration.

Mark 13:30 is referring to the generation that sees the great tribulation. This is a future prophecy that has not yet been fullfilled but will be and it is obvious by the way things are lining up in the world that the time is near. We may or may not be the last generation before when the rapture occurs, you as an unbeliever may or may not be in the last generation that will be left on earth to die in or suffer through the Great Tribulation that is coming.
Once again, the phrase "this generation" is clearly understood to mean the current generation. Only when Christians are squirming to try to separate themselves from the failure of prophecy do they suddenly have such difficulty understanding language.

Again, in Luke 21:32, the "this generation" Jesus was referring to was a future generation as He made clear in verse 8 after Jesus was asked about signs of when things would happen in the future. Jesus went on to tell about events of the last days, The "this generation" He refereed to was clearly the generation alive in the time of that future prophecy. Again, Mathew 24: and verse 34 is talking about the generation that witnesses the fullfilling of the prophecies He gave for the end times.
Yes, he's talking of future events. But not the distant future - events which were to happen in "that same generation". Even if you read the writings of Paul; Paul isn't telling the Christians of things to happen 2,000 years or more in the future. He's telling them to prepare themselves for these events.

The Beast in the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is part of the ungodly imitation trinity. The Beast in this post acts in the spirit of anti-christ trying to obscure and change God's Word by twisting meanings and taking things out of context, comparing things in the Bible that are not comparable to each other based on their context.
You're the only one trying to twist what the Bible says. I don't care what it says since it's only the stupidity of ancient ignorance, conceived, of, written and combined into a book, by men. God had no part of it. Jesus - if he even existed - had no part of it. And I was a theist when I was given the nickname "Beastt". There is a good reason for the double-"t"s. So you're as wrong in your assumptions there as you are in your biased assumptions of scripture.

I encourage all readers to open their Bibles and read these passages for themselves.
Ditto

The Quran says you will bow and say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his prophet or you will be put to death. Is that a prophecy from God? The Quran is totally ruled out by Jesus Christ and the Bible. The Quran tries to change Jesus into a subservient of Muhammed. The Quran does not compare to the Bible in any way other than to show that they cannot both be true.
That's nice. And all you've done is show exactly what I was pointing out - that followers of nearly every religious book proclaim that they contain fulfilled prophecy. Some of them actually do. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Oahspe was written in the late 1800s and references the tiny glass beads in the dust of the moon. NASA found these beads in the 1960s. Is it so hard to figure out how someone in the 1800s might realize the very good odds that these beads would exist? It might be for you. But for anyone willing to remain skeptical about claims of "prophecy", it's not at all difficult to figure out.

Somebody who cannot see the differences in the prophecies discussed here relating to the words of Jesus in the gospels is not qualified to teach Bible.
And anyone who claims the Bible contains "the words of Jesus", doesn't know his Bible from a French cook book. The Bible DOES NOT contain any words of Jesus, silly. There isn't a single word in that book written by anyone who knew Jesus, if - as I stated - Jesus ever even existed. Do you seriously think a former Jew, studious enough to become a secretary, would have written in a crude form of Koine Greek rather than Hebrew? Do you honestly believe a studious former Jew would misquote the 10 Commandments or attribute what Jewish tradition credited to God, instead to Moses? The "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by Mark. It was an anonymous manuscript - as were the other three canonized gospels. And a little critical textual criticism shows that none of them were written by any kind of eye-witness.

Do you seriously think Matthew witnessed the events surrounding the life of Jesus, but when it came to writing them down, he ignored his own memory of them and instead copied over 600-verses from "The Gospel of Mark"? Even devout theistic scholars aren't that gullible. In fact, they try to tell Christians the reality. But you don't care enough to even study the facts.

NIV Study Bible
Preface to the Gospel According to Matthew

- "Although the first gospel is anonymous, the early church fathers were unanimous in holding that Matthew, one of the 12 apostles, was its author. However, the results of modern critical studies, in particular, those that stress Matthews alleged dependence on Mark for a substantial part of his gospel have caused some biblical scholars to abandon Matthian authorship. "Why," they ask, "would Matthew, a witness to the events of the Lord's life depend so heavily on Mark's account?"

Sorry, Bub... Matthew didn't write it. It even refers to seeing Matthew (the tax collector), in the third-person.

As for "Luke", if you think Luke wrote it, then you haven't read it - ANY of it. Because the very first thing it tells you (Luke 1:1-4), is that the author isn't an eye-witness. Of course the actual author also produced parallel verses for some 300 of the verses from the "Gospel of Mark", and merged two verses where he couldn't read the text between Mark 6:46 and Mark 8:27, producing the ridiculous Luke 9:18 in which Jesus is both alone, and with his disciples.

"Luke" also contains information copied from two works of Flavius Josephus, as does "John".

None of them are eye-witness and none of the authors knew, or quoted, Jesus. They quoted verse from the Old Testament as "the words of Jesus".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/28/2014 9:37:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:39:11 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

You can believe God or call Him a liar, that's up to you. You won't win by saying He is not true to His Word. His Word will remain forever. All words agaisnt Him will fail forever.

You don't have "God's word". And the fact that you think you do, shows that you've never studied the origin of the Bible.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/28/2014 10:03:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:37:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/28/2014 7:48:00 PM, Beastt wrote:

Notice how this guy who tries to change the Bible ignores the facts of Israel and the unavoidable wars that are coming and will be fought over Israel as foretold by the Bible.
Show me where the Bible says when these wars will be fought.
Now... show me any country which hasn't been involved in a war in the past 2,000 years.

The Jewish people and nation are proof of the Bibles veracity.
No, they're proof that if people believe something will happen, they'll keep trying to make it happen until it either happens, or they get wiped out.

So we have the fact that we die, the fullfilled prophecies and the prophecies that will be fullfilled, and the entire history of the jewish people
What a load of malarkey. You're simply repeating the very claim I just refuted. Take a good look at the history of the Jewish people, LMGIG. Show me an ancient Jewish document that even mentions Jesus. You can't. No such documents exist. There are Christian documents, and five historical documents - all from historians writing long after the supposed time of Jesus. Every one of the historical documents are mere hearsay. There were more than 2-dozen historians in that time and region at the time Jesus was supposed to have lived. There exists not a single indication that any historian - or anyone else - ever wrote a single word about Jesus in the time he was said to exist.

Jesus is coming soon, morning or night, or noon.
Many will meet their doom, trumpets will sound.
All of the dead shall rise,
righteous meet in the skies.
going where noone dies,
heaven-ward bound.

This is the same silly rhetoric Christians have been selling each other for the past 2,000 years. But if you actually read the Bible (Matthew 16:27-28), and don't ignore where it claims Jesus will reward each man according to his works, it's very clear that the original claim was that this would happen before all of the disciples died. And quite clearly, it didn't.

But despite the stupidity involved, you really can't blame any Christian for denying what his own Bible says when it shows him that he has lived his entire life according to a ridiculous lie, unintentionally produced by the superstitious ignorance of men barely as intelligent at the goats they herded.

Do you actually care where the "words of Jesus" came from? As I stated before, they were taken from the Old Testament.

Mark 15:34 is taken word-for-word from Psalms 22:1
Matthew 11:5 comes from paraphrasing Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 26:19 and Isaiah 61:1.
Matthew 21:2 is taken from Zechariah 9:9. But the author obviously couldn't read or write Hebrew (while Matthew most likely could), and instead took his wording from the Greek Septuagint which contains a translational error. Where the Hebrew talks about the king riding a single donkey, the Greek Septuagint mistranslates this to two donkeys. And if we look to Matthew 21:2, how many donkeys do we find Jesus telling his disciples to steal for him? He tells them to loose two donkeys and bring them to him. So not only did the author take the "dialog" for his fictional Jesus from the Old Testament, he couldn't even read Hebrew and included the mistranslation from the Septuagint, confirming that the words came from the Old Testament, and not from Jesus.

The gospel authors even did this for other fictional characters such as the unnamed heckler in the crowd in Matthew 11:5. The dialog is simply paraphrased from Psalms 22:8.

So the Bible has no "words of Jesus". It contains a fictional Jesus character, who speaks paraphrased verses from the Old Testament, as do other characters invented by the gospel authors. Only if you listen to these mindless, robotic, obedient Christians who believe whatever their parents, teachers and clergy tell them to think, will you find them insisting that the quotations in the Bible are actually the words of Jesus. If you talk to scholars, they'll quickly admit that there is no reason to suspect that the New Testament contains any actual words of Jesus.

And many scholars are starting to wonder at the incredibly thin evidence to support the claim that Jesus ever actually existed. The evidence for Jesus, is no stronger than the evidence for Zeus. So if you realize that Zeus wasn't an actual historical character, you should understand that Jesus is - likewise - a myth sold to the intellectually unfortunate, in exchange for the pacifier of their early childhoods.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/28/2014 10:05:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 10:00:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This thread actually hurts my eyes.

Then read it as a Christian reads his Bible... eyes closed, mind dormant.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
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9/28/2014 10:12:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:37:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
He took Peter, James, and John up into the mountain where He revealed His Glory to them.

I'd never noticed the double entendre until just now.
That is so fukin' FUNNY. ROFLMA.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
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9/28/2014 10:26:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:56:17 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/27/2014 11:31:55 PM, harrymate wrote:
Is there any proof the Bible is entirely true? Please note I wrote ENTIRELY.

People say there are errors and discrpencies in the Bible because they want to believe they have an excuse for hating God. What they say are errors and discrepencies are not. The things they point at have to be taken out of context and/or read from a hypothecial viewpoint which excludes explanations contrary to the hypothesis.

Dry your eyes. Atheists don't "hate" God. That's like claiming you "hate" fairies because you find no cause to believe they exist. It's stupidity. And when one repeats stupidity, they look stupid. So think it through or be assumed to be as stupid as it makes you look.

Now. . . understand that when you have every reason to know something to be false, and yet you state it anyway, that makes you a liar. And Christians of old used to believe God didn't want them to lie.

Here are the first 19-verses of Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


The Bible claims Earth was created in Day-1 (Gen 1:1), yet stars weren't created until Day-4 (Gen 1:16)
- Earth is composed of 92 different elements. Eighty-nine of those elements were fused in stars. So stars had to exist before Earth.

We also see the claim that Earth was formed covered in water on Day-1, (Gen 1:2), and yet didn't receive an atmosphere until Day-2 (Gen 1:6-7)
- If you remove atmospheric pressure from water, it vaporizes at an explosive rate. So the atmosphere had to exist before the water.

Looking to Gen 1:9, we find the liquid water flowing into the valleys, to expose the first dry land on Day-3. The sun is created on Day-4 (Gen 1:14-17)
- But without the sun, Earth would be only slightly warmer than space which is -454 degrees Fahrenheit. Water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit. So the water couldn't have been flowing.

And without the sun, it's rather silly to be referring to "Days".

If we look to Gen 1:11-12, we find the Bible claiming that plants were thriving on Earth on Day-3.
- But remember, without the sun (created on Day-4), Earth would be about the temperature of space, which is only 5-degrees warmer than the absolute coldest anything can ever get. So do grasses, herbs and fruit trees thrive in sub-cryogenic temperatures - temperatures which leave steel as brittle as glass? Of course they don't. They'd freeze solid and die in mere seconds.

So in just the first 19-verse of the Bible, we find FIVE completely ridiculous claims which are demonstrably false and utterly absurd. And yet, here we have LifeMeansGodIsGood, insisting that the Bible doesn't contain any errors or discrepancies. He needs to believe that or his little fairytale might begin to melt away. And the more people he can get to believe in his little fairytale, the more secure it appears to him.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/28/2014 10:33:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 8:37:29 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/28/2014 7:48:00 PM, Beastt wrote:

He took Peter, James, and John up into the mountain where He revealed His Glory to them.

ROFL!!!!
Nor had I, bulproof! I guess we can emit a sigh of relief that the Carpocratian version of "Mark" only made Jesus out to be a pedophile.

Gotta grab some Drain-O to get that image out of my head.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire