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Will God allow us to become his equal?

Blade-of-Truth
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9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?
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neutral
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9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Well, that is not what God's plan of Salvation is all about. The entire purpose of Creation is that man may learn and grow and become more like God. If God did not desire us to be his equals, he certainly would not have created a process to make us more like him.

In regard to Lucifer, there is a fundamental difference in CHOICE. God, if we are his equals, would require us to be completely selfless. That is a choice we can make. It would be an acceptance of equality without is declaration - in service of one another. Where Lucifer went wrong was with pride, the express demand for equality, for recognition, and the choice was one that did not serve others but himself. That choice alone marked him as unequal, and rather than repent - he fought - and fell as a result.

Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.
Blade-of-Truth
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9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Well, that is not what God's plan of Salvation is all about. The entire purpose of Creation is that man may learn and grow and become more like God. If God did not desire us to be his equals, he certainly would not have created a process to make us more like him.

In regard to Lucifer, there is a fundamental difference in CHOICE. God, if we are his equals, would require us to be completely selfless. That is a choice we can make. It would be an acceptance of equality without is declaration - in service of one another. Where Lucifer went wrong was with pride, the express demand for equality, for recognition, and the choice was one that did not serve others but himself. That choice alone marked him as unequal, and rather than repent - he fought - and fell as a result.

Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?
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stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/28/2014 2:34:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

How do you come to that conclusion based on the text?
Blade-of-Truth
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9/28/2014 2:41:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:34:17 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

How do you come to that conclusion based on the text?

They were attempting to reach God. Nowadays we know that it is impossible to reach "God" through tall buildings but if we take the story as literal then it seems that God didn't want them reaching him even though he knew they wouldn't due to space. Even though he knew it was a futile attempt he still struck them all with different languages so that they wouldn't be able to complete a task that was already impossible to achieve. Why? Because God did not want them reaching him (even though they wouldn't have anyways). This begs me to wonder if God doesn't want us to achieve his level of being due to the fact that he struck us down in our first attempt to do so.

I could also point to the flood. Those are the times when the Nephalem were on the Earth, and those hybrids were probably closer to God-hood than any human could achieve. Yet God killed them all with a flood. Why? Because God did not want us reaching God-hood. Considering the Nephalem were believed to be half-human, it's sensible to say that our human DNA was one step closer to reaching that goal.

God has stopped us twice. Then, as we all know, the church stunted scientific progress for about 1,000 years during the last millennium. Considering that science is constantly lifting the veil of that which is unknown, we can safely assume that science will be the next method we pursue for achieving god-hood. This is why I'm wondering if God is going to stop us for a third time.
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Otokage
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9/28/2014 6:16:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Well, that is not what God's plan of Salvation is all about. The entire purpose of Creation is that man may learn and grow and become more like God. If God did not desire us to be his equals, he certainly would not have created a process to make us more like him.

In regard to Lucifer, there is a fundamental difference in CHOICE. God, if we are his equals, would require us to be completely selfless. That is a choice we can make. It would be an acceptance of equality without is declaration - in service of one another. Where Lucifer went wrong was with pride, the express demand for equality, for recognition, and the choice was one that did not serve others but himself. That choice alone marked him as unequal, and rather than repent - he fought - and fell as a result.

Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

That's an interesting question.

IMO, you are having this confusion because christian mythology is simply self-incoherent on this matter, and thus leads to confusion if if analyzed in depth. God supposedly made humans in his image, and thus this alone would mean we are equals, however, God constantly shows unnecessary displays of power, exaggerated punishments, does not tolerate attempts to match him (babel, lucifer), and in short seems to have be in a mixture of strict father role and absolutist king, which makes me think it is unlikely that he wants us to be his equals.

Again the question of the tree of knowledge is pretty interesting, I wanna know what christians think about that.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/28/2014 7:05:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

God could have made you as an animal which only does what that animal is made to do, and have perfect control over you. You could have been made as a dog or a pig and done nothing but what dog or pig does. He made you like Himself, and He wants you to serve Him willingly. He gave you free will so you choose to serve yourself and accuse Him of trying to control you. Doing what He says is right is best for you, but you are choosing to do it your own way. You are making yourself God to yourself in rejecting God's rule over you. The only thing you are really doing is setting yourself up to be rejected forever away from God in Hell where you will serve Him unwillingly as your free will choice is to defy Him and accuse Him of being evil. He will always appear to be evil to you if that's the way you want to look at Him, and in all your deep thinking, you obviously have decided that God to you is evil. You are living out the atheist delusion, trying to deny God and blaming Him for your choice of rejecting His rule over you. It's your own fault if you find one day that you can't get out of Hell. God came down from heaven and died in your place, paid for your wrongs so that in His resurrection, you can be forgiven if you will believe on Him, Jesus, and receive Him as your Saviour. God loves you, but you are pushing for His rejection....not wise. You are making yourself equal to God to yourself in your own eyes and you are going to lose everything if you finalize your death against God.

Technology does not make you anything more than what you are. Technology does not make you anything more than Adam was........a siinner. God will not allow you to take His glory to make yourself a God by your works or by your imaginations. Lucifer lost his position in God's blessings because he was exalting himself in pride, desiring to be glorified as God. You with your "deep thoughts" about technology are doing the same thing. Knowledge is not the problem, knowing evil is the problem and that evil is in your heart to exalt yourself as God. You are making a mistake and will share in Lucifer, who fell from being the shining one into being Satan, the adversary. God wants you to be like Him but you are choosing to be like Satan and your technology cannot earn you pardon from death and God will not allow you to have eternal life through technology any more than He would allow Satan to take His throne through self-exaltation.

Your deep thoughts are doctrines of demons; they know they have lost and will be imprisoned in Hell with it's torments forever. They are keeping you in the dark so you don't see where you are going as you try to exalt yourself to be glorified. Your end will be the same as the devils' end in Hell where God will be glorifed for creating you and not allowing you to rule His world while He gives all of His blessings and everythng He has, except His throne, to His creatures who serve Him willingly and give Him the honor He is due for creating them.

I hope you wake up from your delusion before you wake up in Hell. You can be saved from Hell. I know I am saved from Hell and I have eternal life: I know my sins are forgiven and I am going to heaven and God will freely give me good beyond what I can begin to imagine, and I will serve Him willingly and joyfully forever and give Him all the thanks, praise, and honor He is due, give Him all the glory for creating me and saving me from Hell. I can show you how you can be saved from Hell by God. You can know that you have eternal life if you will get saved from Hell. Will you get saved or will you say you don't need to be saved from Hell? Will you fool yourself into proving you are like god only to find you are imprsoned in Hell like the devil when your death is finalized?
Beastt
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9/28/2014 7:06:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
God, if we are his equals, would require us to be completely selfless.
Wow! You don't even see it, do you.
If we were God's equals, he could no more require anything of us, than we could of him. That's what "being equal" means.

You're so indoctrinated in the belief that God is in charge, that even when speaking of us being his equal, you still talk about God being in charge.

As for being selfless; what part of existing for glory, demanding glory, demanding obedience and demanding that others love you (even when there is nothing to love), is consistent with selflessness?

That is a choice we can make. It would be an acceptance of equality without is declaration - in service of one another. Where Lucifer went wrong was with pride
Because "worship me, obey me, believe in me, never question me, never speak badly of me, love me.. I COMMAND IT", has nothing to do with pride, right?
No matter how you wish to twist it, Christianity comes down to a being with an over-blown ego, who because he is more powerful than his creations believes he should be able to control them, dictate to them, and force them into compliance with his wishes. It's no different than any other dictator. Dictators are known to kill by the millions to execute their ideas, and so is God (according to the Bible). He's just an extension of human tyrannical dominance over others - projected to be the absolute pinnacle of such behavior, and depicted to be exactly that - the worst possible dictator humans could imagine.

Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.
So condemning someone to a eternal torment of endless burning is a show of respect?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
YamaVonKarma
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9/28/2014 7:13:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Give me 60 gallons of pure alcohol and I'll consider it.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
neutral
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9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

Because in order to learn, to have free will, we must be separated from God. We MUST sin. In doing so, we are separated that we might learn. The way back? Jesus Christ.

What else should be the mechanism of separation? Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?
Composer
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9/29/2014 1:41:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power.
You speak absolute garbage neutral!

Show us your biblical evidence that this Lucifer = / a.k.a Satan?

&

Also fatal to your drivel!

The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to jebus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16. (Composer's original Source: http://lds-mormon.com...)

At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.
I am already vastly superior to the biblical gods you have offered e.g. I didn't Create Evil (Col. 1:16) I don't permit rapes, murders, diseases, amputees etc. etc. as does your as_hole of a god that doesn't prevent them!

I'm also NOT the lealous kind either as is your Story book one! (e.g. Deut. 4:24) ESV propaganda

Your god is Unworthy of my respect let alone my worship!

You are obviously content with an as_hole of a god that is also fallible!
Composer
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9/29/2014 1:43:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?
Show us your Satanic ideology using the YLT & Or EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT bible versions?

Meanwhile you remain a fraud & BS artist!
neutral
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9/29/2014 1:46:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:43:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?
Show us your Satanic ideology using the YLT & Or EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT bible versions?

Meanwhile you remain a fraud & BS artist!

I think someone is smoking something.

God's Plan of Salvation is hardly hidden.

http://lmgtfy.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/29/2014 2:05:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

Because in order to learn, to have free will, we must be separated from God. We MUST sin. In doing so, we are separated that we might learn. The way back? Jesus Christ.

What else should be the mechanism of separation? Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?

So god's plan is that we must be separated in order that we have free will and when he achieves his design he decides to punish all of humanity for eternity for doing precisely what he wanted?

Is this the plan, part one?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Blade-of-Truth
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9/29/2014 2:07:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:16:16 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:54:08 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Well, that is not what God's plan of Salvation is all about. The entire purpose of Creation is that man may learn and grow and become more like God. If God did not desire us to be his equals, he certainly would not have created a process to make us more like him.

In regard to Lucifer, there is a fundamental difference in CHOICE. God, if we are his equals, would require us to be completely selfless. That is a choice we can make. It would be an acceptance of equality without is declaration - in service of one another. Where Lucifer went wrong was with pride, the express demand for equality, for recognition, and the choice was one that did not serve others but himself. That choice alone marked him as unequal, and rather than repent - he fought - and fell as a result.

Can we be God's equal? Yes. That is what he wishes. But he also respects the choices we make.

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

That's an interesting question.

IMO, you are having this confusion because christian mythology is simply self-incoherent on this matter, and thus leads to confusion if if analyzed in depth. God supposedly made humans in his image, and thus this alone would mean we are equals, however, God constantly shows unnecessary displays of power, exaggerated punishments, does not tolerate attempts to match him (babel, lucifer), and in short seems to have be in a mixture of strict father role and absolutist king, which makes me think it is unlikely that he wants us to be his equals.

I'd agree with your analysis of the situation.

Again the question of the tree of knowledge is pretty interesting, I wanna know what christians think about that.

Me too. Hopefully some will come and attempt to tackle this.
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Composer
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9/29/2014 2:39:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:43:31 AM, Composer wrote:
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?
Show us your Satanic ideology using the YLT & Or EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT bible versions?

Meanwhile you remain a fraud & BS artist!

At 9/29/2014 1:46:13 AM, neutral wrote:
I think someone is smoking something.
I accept you capitulation!

At 9/29/2014 1:46:13 AM, neutral wrote:
God's Plan of Salvation is hardly hidden.

http://lmgtfy.com...
Your evidence for a literal supernatural god remains a total zero!

You remain a fraud and a BS artist incapable of sustaining their ideology!
bulproof
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9/29/2014 2:43:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

Because in order to learn, to have free will, we must be separated from God. We MUST sin. In doing so, we are separated that we might learn. The way back? Jesus Christ.

What else should be the mechanism of separation? Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?

So god's plan is that we must be separated in order that we have free will and when he achieves his design he decides to punish all of humanity for eternity for doing precisely what he wanted?

Is this the plan, part one?

Addendum to the above.

Why does an omnipotent god require some contrived device in order that he supply his creations with the free will he commands they possess?

Does he not understand the consequences of omnipotence?
Or is he just a creation of man, who obviously doesn't understand the consequences and needs to contrive a device in order that he can make some sense out of the story he is telling?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
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9/29/2014 3:00:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 2:39:33 AM, Composer wrote:
Your evidence for a literal supernatural god remains a total zero!

You remain a fraud and a BS artist incapable of sustaining their ideology!

As opposed to this 'science'?
Composer
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9/29/2014 3:06:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 2:43:18 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/29/2014 1:25:45 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/28/2014 11:39:52 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

If he wants us to be his equal, then why did he command us to stay away from the tree of knowledge?

Because in order to learn, to have free will, we must be separated from God. We MUST sin. In doing so, we are separated that we might learn. The way back? Jesus Christ.

What else should be the mechanism of separation? Should we be caste out like Satan? Who also ran afoul of God's commandments?

So god's plan is that we must be separated in order that we have free will and when he achieves his design he decides to punish all of humanity for eternity for doing precisely what he wanted?

Is this the plan, part one?

Addendum to the above.

Why does an omnipotent god require some contrived device in order that he supply his creations with the free will he commands they possess?

Does he not understand the consequences of omnipotence?
Or is he just a creation of man, who obviously doesn't understand the consequences and needs to contrive a device in order that he can make some sense out of the story he is telling?

The biblical god is fallible and not omnipotent! Proof from Story book bible -

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. (Judges 1:19) KJV propaganda
Otokage
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9/29/2014 3:33:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Overall I think that if you worship someone, you can't be his/her equal. In this sense atheists would be more God-like than christians.

"Admiration is the emotion furthest from understanding."
neutral
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9/29/2014 3:43:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:33:34 AM, Otokage wrote:
Overall I think that if you worship someone, you can't be his/her equal. In this sense atheists would be more God-like than christians.

"Admiration is the emotion furthest from understanding."

And yet imitation is the finest form of flattery.

Precisely because we do understand.

And again, if you think you are God's equal - then surely you are not. Precisely because the service is universal and unasked and unqualified. To find a way to stand ahead of others about a God you do not believe in? Smacks of pride.
Otokage
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9/29/2014 3:56:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:43:51 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:33:34 AM, Otokage wrote:
Overall I think that if you worship someone, you can't be his/her equal. In this sense atheists would be more God-like than christians.

"Admiration is the emotion furthest from understanding."

And yet imitation is the finest form of flattery.

Precisely because we do understand.

And again, if you think you are God's equal - then surely you are not. Precisely because the service is universal and unasked and unqualified. To find a way to stand ahead of others about a God you do not believe in? Smacks of pride.

No I don't think I am God's equal. But I do think that being God's equal means stop wasting time on worshipping him, because, as far as I know, God would never worship anyone or anything.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/29/2014 8:21:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:41:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:34:17 PM, stubs wrote:
They were attempting to reach God. Nowadays we know that it is impossible to reach "God" through tall buildings but if we take the story as literal then it seems that God didn't want them reaching him even though he knew they wouldn't due to space. Even though he knew it was a futile attempt he still struck them all with different languages so that they wouldn't be able to complete a task that was already impossible to achieve. Why? Because God did not want them reaching him (even though they wouldn't have anyways). This begs me to wonder if God doesn't want us to achieve his level of being due to the fact that he struck us down in our first attempt to do so.

I don't think you can come to that conclusion based upon the text. That doesn't seem to be the reason for God's action. It is much more likely that He sees the evil going on and knows how much worse it can get. Quoting from Walter Brueggemann's (who is pretty much the guy for OT studies) Genesis commentary, "The issue is not simply scattering, for we have seen that scattering may be either an act of punishment or the plan of salvation. Nor is the issue oneness, which may be the purpose of God or an act of human resistance. Either unity or scatteredness has the possibility of being either obedient or disobedient. The issue is whether the world shall be organized for God's purposes of joy, delight, freedom, doxology, and caring. Such a world must partake of the unity God wills and the scattering God envisions."

I could also point to the flood. Those are the times when the Nephalem were on the Earth, and those hybrids were probably closer to God-hood than any human could achieve. Yet God killed them all with a flood. Why? Because God did not want us reaching God-hood. Considering the Nephalem were believed to be half-human, it's sensible to say that our human DNA was one step closer to reaching that goal.

I believe it was Augustine that always held to the view that we cannot use the unclear verses as our theological foundation, but rather we should use the clear verses to shed light on the unclear verses. Given the vast speculation on this passage it seems irresponsible to lay the ground work of our theology on this passage. Nevertheless this seems not to be the reason God acts either. As one commentary states, "The narrative must not be pressed too far because we do not understand it. But it seems to assert that in heaven and on earth, in order and in disorder, God still is the only giver of life."

God has stopped us twice. Then, as we all know, the church stunted scientific progress for about 1,000 years during the last millennium. Considering that science is constantly lifting the veil of that which is unknown, we can safely assume that science will be the next method we pursue for achieving god-hood. This is why I'm wondering if God is going to stop us for a third time.

Has the church thought some dumb stuff? Sure. I'm not sure by any logic we can then portray that upon God. In reference to science being the next method to achieve god-hood, that has no biblical foundation. That is not to say that through science people cannot come to a revelation of God. For we have seen that before.
DPMartin
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9/29/2014 10:02:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Or is it, God wants a certain result, from man and the tower of babel was counter productive in His Judgement.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I haven"t heard it put together that way, besides, most scholars I do believe, conclude that Lucifer is the name of a babylonian god or related empire maybe persia . Scripturally satan is the father of lies and the one cast out, as Jesus said like lightning. Anyways, what is acceptable in God"s Presence in spirit, is the case there.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

As far as mans knowhow these days, its generally believed that Daniel"s prophesy of: Dan:12:4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Is what is being experience the last hundred or so years. Note the run to and fro is simply mobility, and military success is based on that capability. And these days the average person can be on the other side of the earth within hours. Were it used to take months if not years in some cases. Same with knowledge, communication has the same effect militarily and socially. But its not God putting His foot on man"s throat, in that thinking its those who ask for it. The fulfillment that will be done, isn"t the will that is found in human nature. Human nature is contray to God"s nature and will.
12_13
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9/29/2014 3:40:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Disciples of Jesus should be the lights in this world, so I think it is wrong to say that God doesn"t want us to have light.

You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can't be hidden. Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house. Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matt. 5:14-16

I think "Lucifer" brings only darkness (lies) to this world.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/30/2014 2:02:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:40:00 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

Disciples of Jesus should be the lights in this world, so I think it is wrong to say that God doesn"t want us to have light.

You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can't be hidden. Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house. Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matt. 5:14-16

I think "Lucifer" brings only darkness (lies) to this world.
You understand then that Lucifer means Light Bringer.
Good for you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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9/30/2014 8:48:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe. (Quran 21:22)

But if the Truth had followed their inclinations, the heavens and the earth and whoever is in them would have been ruined. Rather, We have brought them their message, but they, from their message, are turning away. (Quran 23:71)

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him]. (Quran 23:91)

This opens the door to many contradictions. It is like having two captains for a ship.
If god 1 has a different will than god 2, then what? If a god's will is not fulfilled than that is not a god by definition.
If a god simply follows the will of god 1, then god 2 is helpless, not needed, and not a god by definition.
If two gods create the same thing at the same time then it is a contradiction. It is like two hammers striking the same nail at the same spot at the same time.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/30/2014 10:54:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 2:49:02 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It seems to me that much of the Bible shows God in the position of power over man, who is not worthy of his knowledge and ability. In stories like the tower of Babel, God is shown confusing man in order to better control him.

Lucifer, or the "Light-bringer/Light-bearer" is thrown out of Heaven for wanting God's knowledge and power. Depending on how you interpret a lot of this, it would seem that God is an oppressive force trying to keep man from attaining certain enlightenment and ability.

I have also been putting a lot of thought in to this and how we are coming to a point in technology that is making us God-like. Are we going to be put down again by God or enlightened?

God's created voice is enlightened during this age but God's people are kept from His knowledge until we begin to live His knowledge in the next age.

Put it this way, no man was created to become like his Creator.