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Ten Rigorous Proofs for Atheism

Springheeledjack
Posts: 25
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10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Or we could pay attention to what atheists actually argue, instead of a list of absurd strawmen.

There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

And since the historical evidence for Jesus is about equal to that for Zeus, some of us recognize that Jesus is a myth. ALL of the supposed "historical evidence" is just hearsay.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Springheeledjack
Posts: 25
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10/2/2014 4:04:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
Or we could pay attention to what atheists actually argue, instead of a list of absurd strawmen.

Actually these arguments were in response to what a group of atheists called "the godless geeks" were arguing was ridiculous about theism http://www.godlessgeeks.com....

There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

Notice how we already have negative evidence against fairies and leprachauns, namely they were made up explicitly as fiction, with God it's different. God is a historical claim.

And since the historical evidence for Jesus is about equal to that for Zeus, some of us recognize that Jesus is a myth. ALL of the supposed "historical evidence" is just hearsay.

*About* equal? So you admit there is evidence, and therefore it would not be rational to conclude he didn't exist?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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10/2/2014 9:30:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

No, but when talking about the Christian God, showing flaws in the Bible is a good way to lower the probability of the Bible being correct, which lowers the probability of the Christian God being real.

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

1) Whether Jesus was a historical figure or not has no bearing on atheism. It only impacts modern Christianity.
2) I recommend that you read "Proving History" and "On the Historicity of Jesus" by Richard Carrier. It uses Bayes's Theorem to calculate the probability of a historical Jesus after analyzing the evidence that exists on both sides.

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Premise 2 is false, this is the entire point of the debate of materialism vs dualism. The thing is, I have yet to run into someone in the religion forums that knows how to debate dualism.

If dualism is correct, an immaterial world is real.
If materialism is correct, there is no immaterial world.

Now, in my view, there is no good reason to believe in an immaterial world.
Since premise 2 is false, the conclusion is also flawed.

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

There have actually been studies of prayer, and the studies show that prayer does not work. This does not mean that there is no god, but it does mean that the probability of certain gods lowers (like how the Bible says ask and you shall receive).

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Premise 2 is completely wrong. Atheism is a lack of belief, which shows that it is not a claim. The issue comes to probability. Is there a higher probability that there is or is not a god? I think there is a higher probability that there is not a god.

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Look up B-Theory of time.

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Never heard this before.

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

The analogy is to show that there is a burden of proof on the theist, yet many theists do not even try to fill it. It does not mean there is no god, but lowers the probability.

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Never heard this before. I doubt anyone would even use it.

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist

I have never heard this one, and doubt it has been used. I have heard the argument that there are, have been, and will be MANY religions, and not all of them can be correct, so why should anyone believe in a specific religion without good reason? This (what I have stated), once again, only lowers the probability of specific gods.
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#WarOnDDO
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/2/2014 11:45:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

Disproving the books of Christianity doesn't disprove god, and it's questionable if it even disproves Christianity, since many readily accept that the bible is not the word of god, and is largely imperfect.

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

This is logically invalid, and again only addresses a subset of Christianity, and not god in general.

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Prove premise 1, also some interpretations of God hold god as fundemental to matter and energy, I.e. Matter and energy are manifest of god. Hence you need to prove matter and energy are fundemental.

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

Wtf, this is not even logically valid.

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Invalid.... Premise #2 is false too

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Oh, you are trolling. Well f*ck you.

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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10/3/2014 2:43:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 9:30:08 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

No, but when talking about the Christian God, showing flaws in the Bible is a good way to lower the probability of the Bible being correct, which lowers the probability of the Christian God being real.

What about the probability that the "flaws" aren't really flaws?

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Premise 2 is false, this is the entire point of the debate of materialism vs dualism. The thing is, I have yet to run into someone in the religion forums that knows how to debate dualism.

Have you ever met anyone in the religion forum who agreed that you were the sole judge on how to debate dualism?

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

There have actually been studies of prayer, and the studies show that prayer does not work. This does not mean that there is no god, but it does mean that the probability of certain gods lowers (like how the Bible says ask and you shall receive).

Telling a girl she is beautiful before asking her out will greatly increase your chance of her accepting your proposal. Is that true or false? The materialist says, "Let's test it."

So he puts together a camera crew and has a guy approach random girls. He says, you're beautiful. Will you go out with me?

He puts together another camera crew and the guy, this time, the guy only says, "Will you go out with me?" and compares the results. Do you think the results will be very different? .......God is NOT an algorithm.

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Premise 2 is completely wrong. Atheism is a lack of belief, which shows that it is not a claim.

Untrue. It claims that God does not exist.

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

The analogy is to show that there is a burden of proof on the theist, yet many theists do not even try to fill it. It does not mean there is no god, but lowers the probability.

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist

I have never heard this one, and doubt it has been used. I have heard the argument that there are, have been, and will be MANY religions, and not all of them can be correct, so why should anyone believe in a specific religion without good reason? This (what I have stated), once again, only lowers the probability of specific gods.

There are many theories.....
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/3/2014 4:07:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist

If anyone ever tried to use those arguments to "prove" atheism, I would have some sincere concerns about that person's ability to avoid choking to death on his/her own saliva.
Springheeledjack
Posts: 25
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10/3/2014 7:01:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:07:47 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist

If anyone ever tried to use those arguments to "prove" atheism, I would have some sincere concerns about that person's ability to avoid choking to death on his/her own saliva.

Not quite sure that I understand what you're saying.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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10/3/2014 7:34:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 4:04:02 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

Notice how we already have negative evidence against fairies and leprachauns, namely they were made up explicitly as fiction, with God it's different. God is a historical claim.

So is big foot, the loch ness monster, and alien abductions. Do you believe in those as well?
Springheeledjack
Posts: 25
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10/4/2014 10:47:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:34:09 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 10/2/2014 4:04:02 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

Notice how we already have negative evidence against fairies and leprachauns, namely they were made up explicitly as fiction, with God it's different. God is a historical claim.

So is big foot, the loch ness monster, and alien abductions. Do you believe in those as well?

So you assume the holy books of all the religions to be false, while I assume a good portion of them to be true. Can you prove they are false or are you going to continue the nonsensical comparison to things that were just invented as fictitious ideas?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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10/4/2014 10:54:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 10:47:55 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:34:09 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 10/2/2014 4:04:02 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

Notice how we already have negative evidence against fairies and leprachauns, namely they were made up explicitly as fiction, with God it's different. God is a historical claim.

So is big foot, the loch ness monster, and alien abductions. Do you believe in those as well?

So you assume the holy books of all the religions to be false, while I assume a good portion of them to be true. Can you prove they are false or are you going to continue the nonsensical comparison to things that were just invented as fictitious ideas?

Please tell me where I said anything about my beliefs. As I recall, this discussion is about yours.

Second, try reading your claim and my response again, slowly. You stated that what separates God from fairies is that God is an actual historical claim. The things I listed are historical claims, so you have drawn no distinction. If you disagree I suggest you make use of your google search bar.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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10/4/2014 11:05:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:31:39 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
Argument from arbitrary bible verses

1. [arbitrary cherry-picked passage from OT]
2. [arbitrary cherry-picked contradictory passage from NT]
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from historical evidence

1. there is some evidence for Jesus in history
2. but there is really not that much
3. therefore, it's stupid to believe he existed
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from matter and energy

1. everything is composed of matter and energy
2. [nobody is allowed to argue with that]
3. god is not composed of matter and energy
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from prayer

1. I prayed for X
2. I did not get X
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from lack of belief

1. atheism is just a lack of belief in a god
2. therefore, it can't be proven wrong
3. much like lacking belief in gravity while jumping out of a plane with a parachute could not be wrong
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from cosmology

1. if I say something doesn't have a cause, it does not have a cause
2. I say the universe doesn't have a cause
3. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from racism

1. lots of rich white people believe in Jesus
2. therefore, god does not exist

Carl Sagan's argument from a dragon in the garage

1. [crazy person]: I believe there is a dragon in my garage
2. [atheist]: really, can I see it?
3. [crazy person]: no, it's invisible!
4. [atheist]: that makes your claim "veridically worthless"
5. [crazy person]: what does that mean?
6. [atheist]: it just means "you're an idiot"
7. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from oppression

1. stop making fun of atheism!
2. we only want to destroy your beliefs!
3. just let us do that and please don't struggle!
4. therefore, god does not exist

Argument from popularity

1. Christianity is popular
2. popular beliefs are usually wrong or only popular for the sake of being popular
3. therefore, god does not exist

Oh holy atheist thou hath disproven my primitive 2000 year old beliefs I shalt turn to atheism and worship Hitler and Charles Darwin and Euthanasia is good so checkmate Christians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/4/2014 11:10:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 10:47:55 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:34:09 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 10/2/2014 4:04:02 AM, Springheeledjack wrote:
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

Notice how we already have negative evidence against fairies and leprachauns, namely they were made up explicitly as fiction, with God it's different. God is a historical claim.

So is big foot, the loch ness monster, and alien abductions. Do you believe in those as well?

So you assume the holy books of all the religions to be false, while I assume a good portion of them to be true. Can you prove they are false or are you going to continue the nonsensical comparison to things that were just invented as fictitious ideas?

You can assume it based on the following propositions:

*all cultures have had gods
*all cultures have had stories of creation
*none of these creation stories have any valid evidence
*the reason religions prevail is because of political discourse
*christianity, islam and hinduism has prevailed through political discourse.
*therefore if any other religions would have prevailed, say ancient roman paganism, norse paganism and egyptian paganism they would have the exact same credentials as the christian god does today.
* some creation stories are more compatible with what we know about the world. That still doesn't make them true. Abrahamitic religions have the exact same compatibility with the world as greek mythology does.

Do you not see that your argument is absolutely ludicrous?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/4/2014 3:14:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 3:42:11 AM, Beastt wrote:
Or we could pay attention to what atheists actually argue, instead of a list of absurd strawmen.

There is no evidence for fairies, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for Leprechauns, therefore we conclude they do not exist.

There is no evidence for God, therefore we conclude he does not exist.

And since the historical evidence for Jesus is about equal to that for Zeus, some of us recognize that Jesus is a myth. ALL of the supposed "historical evidence" is just hearsay.

Oh no, the OP is a typical so called atheist attitude, pull something out of its butt, see if it stinks, then throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. If that don"t work, then repeat until it does.

But a typical well adjusted non- believer or non- follower would disregard the subject of religion all together in the first place, and doesn"t really care about who is right about science v. religion.

It seems there is such a thing as followers of doubt, though. Could that be a bases for a system of belief, in other words religion?