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May Jesus The God?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/2/2014 8:14:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

No Jesus is not, was not, and never will be the God, the only True God is teh one he and the Apostles worshipped, as at 1 Peter 1:3 ASV(i) "3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," whoose self declared name is in English, Jehovah. However he has many names in many languages:

Language or Dialect: Divine Name
Aneityum: Ihova
Arawak: Jehovah
Awabakal: Yeh"a
Bangi: Yawe
Batak (Toba): Jahowa
Benga: Jehova
Bolia: Yawe
Bube: Yehovah
Bullom So: Jehovah
Ch"cobo: Jahu"
Cherokee: Yihowa
Chin (Hakha): Zahova
Chippewa: Jehovah
Choctaw: Chihowa
Croatian: Jehova
Dakota: Jehowa
Dobu: Ieoba
Douala: Yehowa
Dutch: Jehovah
Efate (North): Yehova
Efik: Jehovah
English: Jehovah
"w": Yehowa
Fang: Jeh"va
Fijian: Jiova
French: IHVH, yhwh
Ga: Iehowa
German: Jehovah; Jehova
Gibario (dialect of Kerewo): Iehova
Grebo: Jehova
Hawaiian: Iehova
Hebrew: ????
Hindustani: Yihov"h
Hiri Motu: Iehova
Ho-Chunk (Winnebago): Jehowa
Ila: Yaave
Iliku (dialect of Lusengo): Yawe
Indonesian: YAHWEH
Kala Lagaw Ya: Iehovan
Kalanga: Yehova; Yahwe
Kalenjin: Jehovah
Kerewo: Iehova
Kiluba: Yehova
Kipsigis: Jehoba
Kiribati: Iehova
Kisonge: Yehowa
Korean: ???
Kosraean: Jeova
Kuanua: Ieova
Laotian: Yehowa
Lele: Jehova
Lewo: Yehova
Lingala: Yawe
Logo: Yehova
Lomongo: Yawe; Yova
Lonwolwol: Jehovah
Lugbara: Yehova
Luimbi: Yehova
Luna: Yeoba
Lunda: Yehova
Luo: Yawe
Luvale: Yehova
Malagasy: Jehovah; Ieh"vah
Malo: Iova
Marquesan: Iehova
Marshallese: Jeova
Maskelynes: Iova
Mentawai: Jehoba
Meriam: Iehoua
Misima-Paneati: Iehova
Mizo: Jehovan; Jihova"n
Mohawk: Yehovah
Mortlockese: Jioua
Motu: Iehova
Mpongwe (dialect of Myene): Jehova
Muskogee: Cehofv
Myene: Ye"va
Naga, Angami: Jihova
Naga, Konyak: Jihova
Naga, Lotha: Jihova
Naga, Mao: Jihova
Naga, Northern Rengma: Jihova
Naga, Sangtam: Jihova
Nandi: Jehova
Narrinyeri: Jehovah
Nauruan: Jehova
Navajo: J"ho"vah
Ndau: Jehova
Nembe: Jehovah
Nengone (or, Mar"): Iehova
Ngando: Yawe
Ntomba: Yawe
Nukuoro: Jehova
Polish: Jehowa
Portuguese: I"hve
Rarotongan: Jehova; Iehova
Rerep: Iova
Rotuman: Jihova
Sakao: Ihova;Iehova
Samoan: Ieova
Seneca: Ya"wen
Sengele: Yawe
Sesotho: Yehofa
Sie: Iehova
Spanish: Jehov"; Yahv"; YHWH; Yahweh
Sranantongo: Jehova
Sukuma: Yahuwa; Jakwe
Tahitian: Iehova
Teke-Eboo: Yawe
Temne: Yeh?fa; Yehofa
Thai: Yahowa
Toaripi: Jehova; Iehova
Tonga: Jehova
Tongan: Jihova; Sihova
Tswana: Jehofa; Yehova; Yehofa
Umbundu: Yehova
Uripiv: Iova
Wampanoag: Jehovah
Welsh: Iehofah
Xhosa: Yehova
Zande: Yekova
Zulu: Jehova; YAHWE

Take your pick, I am sure he won't mind.
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

The trouble is that, as a Muslim, you are a part of one of the most powerful of Satan's counterfeits, formed from the descendants of Abraham's illegitimate son, who was prophesied to be the father of the worst enemies of God's people, Israel. This has proved to be true for many centuries, and still is today, even though the physical nation of Israel is no longer God's people.

However your people are still the enemies of God's people and have banned their God given work in all your territories, under threat of a death sentence if caught.

Since you fight against God's people on earth that makes you fighters against God himself.

The time is too far along for gentle persuasion now, so the brutal truth is all that is left, and I am afraid that as long as you remain Muslim, you will continue to be a fighter against the true God.

Of course the only way that can be changed is by coming over to the side of God's people something which other Muslims have done, but which in the case of Muslims especially takes a great deal of courage.

Even to investigate the truth of it requires courage for a Muslim since the moment you start you will be under threat of death by your own people.

That is how afraid Islam is of it's adherents finding out the truth about it.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/3/2014 8:09:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

The trouble is that, as a Muslim, you are a part of one of the most powerful of Satan's counterfeits, formed from the descendants of Abraham's illegitimate son, who was prophesied to be the father of the worst enemies of God's people, Israel. This has proved to be true for many centuries, and still is today, even though the physical nation of Israel is no longer God's people.

However your people are still the enemies of God's people and have banned their God given work in all your territories, under threat of a death sentence if caught.

Since you fight against God's people on earth that makes you fighters against God himself.

The time is too far along for gentle persuasion now, so the brutal truth is all that is left, and I am afraid that as long as you remain Muslim, you will continue to be a fighter against the true God.

Of course the only way that can be changed is by coming over to the side of God's people something which other Muslims have done, but which in the case of Muslims especially takes a great deal of courage.

Even to investigate the truth of it requires courage for a Muslim since the moment you start you will be under threat of death by your own people.

That is how afraid Islam is of it's adherents finding out the truth about it.

Take absolutely NO notice of MCB for he is proven insane!

Just recently he made the following claims -

At 10/2/2014 1:51:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have, in my weakness, been granted that privilege which is the only reason why I can see and understand things you cannot.

So MCB claims ' divine privileges ' to assert his ideology!

Part of his ' divine privileges ' MCB stated & claimed -

At 10/2/2014 3:57:01 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
. . . . His (i.e. biblical gods) home is the heavens and he does not leave there.

I then proceeded yet again to successfully expose MCB as an idiot, who has no idea that his own propaganda totally refutes him, as this following example taken from his own supposedly preferred propaganda unambiguously proves-

And Jehovah proceeded to go down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. . . . . (Gen. 11:5) Botchtower propaganda

So MCB claimed his ' divine privileges ' from his god, told him that his god never leaves heaven!

However! fatal to MCB, Gen. 11:5 taken from MCB's own bible propaganda, exposes MCB as a fraud, liar and deceiver, with absolutely NO ' divine priveleges ' but only his human carnal arrogance, error and BS ideology!

In other words whatever MCB claims and asserts, his ideology is a proven fraudulent one!
Natec
Posts: 84
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10/3/2014 8:31:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 8:14:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

No Jesus is not, was not, and never will be the God, the only True God is teh one he and the Apostles worshipped, as at 1 Peter 1:3 ASV(i) "3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," whoose self declared name is in English, Jehovah. However he has many names in many languages:

Language or Dialect: Divine Name
Aneityum: Ihova
Arawak: Jehovah
Awabakal: Yeh"a
Bangi: Yawe
Batak (Toba): Jahowa
Benga: Jehova
Bolia: Yawe
Bube: Yehovah
Bullom So: Jehovah
Ch"cobo: Jahu"
Cherokee: Yihowa
Chin (Hakha): Zahova
Chippewa: Jehovah
Choctaw: Chihowa
Croatian: Jehova
Dakota: Jehowa
Dobu: Ieoba
Douala: Yehowa
Dutch: Jehovah
Efate (North): Yehova
Efik: Jehovah
English: Jehovah
"w": Yehowa
Fang: Jeh"va
Fijian: Jiova
French: IHVH, yhwh
Ga: Iehowa
German: Jehovah; Jehova
Gibario (dialect of Kerewo): Iehova
Grebo: Jehova
Hawaiian: Iehova
Hebrew: ????
Hindustani: Yihov"h
Hiri Motu: Iehova
Ho-Chunk (Winnebago): Jehowa
Ila: Yaave
Iliku (dialect of Lusengo): Yawe
Indonesian: YAHWEH
Kala Lagaw Ya: Iehovan
Kalanga: Yehova; Yahwe
Kalenjin: Jehovah
Kerewo: Iehova
Kiluba: Yehova
Kipsigis: Jehoba
Kiribati: Iehova
Kisonge: Yehowa
Korean: ???
Kosraean: Jeova
Kuanua: Ieova
Laotian: Yehowa
Lele: Jehova
Lewo: Yehova
Lingala: Yawe
Logo: Yehova
Lomongo: Yawe; Yova
Lonwolwol: Jehovah
Lugbara: Yehova
Luimbi: Yehova
Luna: Yeoba
Lunda: Yehova
Luo: Yawe
Luvale: Yehova
Malagasy: Jehovah; Ieh"vah
Malo: Iova
Marquesan: Iehova
Marshallese: Jeova
Maskelynes: Iova
Mentawai: Jehoba
Meriam: Iehoua
Misima-Paneati: Iehova
Mizo: Jehovan; Jihova"n
Mohawk: Yehovah
Mortlockese: Jioua
Motu: Iehova
Mpongwe (dialect of Myene): Jehova
Muskogee: Cehofv
Myene: Ye"va
Naga, Angami: Jihova
Naga, Konyak: Jihova
Naga, Lotha: Jihova
Naga, Mao: Jihova
Naga, Northern Rengma: Jihova
Naga, Sangtam: Jihova
Nandi: Jehova
Narrinyeri: Jehovah
Nauruan: Jehova
Navajo: J"ho"vah
Ndau: Jehova
Nembe: Jehovah
Nengone (or, Mar"): Iehova
Ngando: Yawe
Ntomba: Yawe
Nukuoro: Jehova
Polish: Jehowa
Portuguese: I"hve
Rarotongan: Jehova; Iehova
Rerep: Iova
Rotuman: Jihova
Sakao: Ihova;Iehova
Samoan: Ieova
Seneca: Ya"wen
Sengele: Yawe
Sesotho: Yehofa
Sie: Iehova
Spanish: Jehov"; Yahv"; YHWH; Yahweh
Sranantongo: Jehova
Sukuma: Yahuwa; Jakwe
Tahitian: Iehova
Teke-Eboo: Yawe
Temne: Yeh?fa; Yehofa
Thai: Yahowa
Toaripi: Jehova; Iehova
Tonga: Jehova
Tongan: Jihova; Sihova
Tswana: Jehofa; Yehova; Yehofa
Umbundu: Yehova
Uripiv: Iova
Wampanoag: Jehovah
Welsh: Iehofah
Xhosa: Yehova
Zande: Yekova
Zulu: Jehova; YAHWE

Take your pick, I am sure he won't mind.

Did you copy paste that from a pre made list, or did you actually translate them?
Dude... stop...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/3/2014 8:40:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 8:31:23 AM, Natec wrote:
At 10/2/2014 8:14:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

No Jesus is not, was not, and never will be the God, the only True God is teh one he and the Apostles worshipped, as at 1 Peter 1:3 ASV(i) "3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," whoose self declared name is in English, Jehovah. However he has many names in many languages:

Language or Dialect: Divine Name
Aneityum: Ihova
Arawak: Jehovah
Awabakal: Yeh"a
Bangi: Yawe
Batak (Toba): Jahowa
Benga: Jehova
Bolia: Yawe
Bube: Yehovah
Bullom So: Jehovah
Ch"cobo: Jahu"
Cherokee: Yihowa
Chin (Hakha): Zahova
Chippewa: Jehovah
Choctaw: Chihowa
Croatian: Jehova
Dakota: Jehowa
Dobu: Ieoba
Douala: Yehowa
Dutch: Jehovah
Efate (North): Yehova
Efik: Jehovah
English: Jehovah
"w": Yehowa
Fang: Jeh"va
Fijian: Jiova
French: IHVH, yhwh
Ga: Iehowa
German: Jehovah; Jehova
Gibario (dialect of Kerewo): Iehova
Grebo: Jehova
Hawaiian: Iehova
Hebrew: ????
Hindustani: Yihov"h
Hiri Motu: Iehova
Ho-Chunk (Winnebago): Jehowa
Ila: Yaave
Iliku (dialect of Lusengo): Yawe
Indonesian: YAHWEH
Kala Lagaw Ya: Iehovan
Kalanga: Yehova; Yahwe
Kalenjin: Jehovah
Kerewo: Iehova
Kiluba: Yehova
Kipsigis: Jehoba
Kiribati: Iehova
Kisonge: Yehowa
Korean: ???
Kosraean: Jeova
Kuanua: Ieova
Laotian: Yehowa
Lele: Jehova
Lewo: Yehova
Lingala: Yawe
Logo: Yehova
Lomongo: Yawe; Yova
Lonwolwol: Jehovah
Lugbara: Yehova
Luimbi: Yehova
Luna: Yeoba
Lunda: Yehova
Luo: Yawe
Luvale: Yehova
Malagasy: Jehovah; Ieh"vah
Malo: Iova
Marquesan: Iehova
Marshallese: Jeova
Maskelynes: Iova
Mentawai: Jehoba
Meriam: Iehoua
Misima-Paneati: Iehova
Mizo: Jehovan; Jihova"n
Mohawk: Yehovah
Mortlockese: Jioua
Motu: Iehova
Mpongwe (dialect of Myene): Jehova
Muskogee: Cehofv
Myene: Ye"va
Naga, Angami: Jihova
Naga, Konyak: Jihova
Naga, Lotha: Jihova
Naga, Mao: Jihova
Naga, Northern Rengma: Jihova
Naga, Sangtam: Jihova
Nandi: Jehova
Narrinyeri: Jehovah
Nauruan: Jehova
Navajo: J"ho"vah
Ndau: Jehova
Nembe: Jehovah
Nengone (or, Mar"): Iehova
Ngando: Yawe
Ntomba: Yawe
Nukuoro: Jehova
Polish: Jehowa
Portuguese: I"hve
Rarotongan: Jehova; Iehova
Rerep: Iova
Rotuman: Jihova
Sakao: Ihova;Iehova
Samoan: Ieova
Seneca: Ya"wen
Sengele: Yawe
Sesotho: Yehofa
Sie: Iehova
Spanish: Jehov"; Yahv"; YHWH; Yahweh
Sranantongo: Jehova
Sukuma: Yahuwa; Jakwe
Tahitian: Iehova
Teke-Eboo: Yawe
Temne: Yeh?fa; Yehofa
Thai: Yahowa
Toaripi: Jehova; Iehova
Tonga: Jehova
Tongan: Jihova; Sihova
Tswana: Jehofa; Yehova; Yehofa
Umbundu: Yehova
Uripiv: Iova
Wampanoag: Jehovah
Welsh: Iehofah
Xhosa: Yehova
Zande: Yekova
Zulu: Jehova; YAHWE

Take your pick, I am sure he won't mind.

Did you copy paste that from a pre made list, or did you actually translate them?

Copied and Pasted, once I found a list. I am a very long way from being that clever.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/3/2014 8:42:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 8:09:09 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

The trouble is that, as a Muslim, you are a part of one of the most powerful of Satan's counterfeits, formed from the descendants of Abraham's illegitimate son, who was prophesied to be the father of the worst enemies of God's people, Israel. This has proved to be true for many centuries, and still is today, even though the physical nation of Israel is no longer God's people.

However your people are still the enemies of God's people and have banned their God given work in all your territories, under threat of a death sentence if caught.

Since you fight against God's people on earth that makes you fighters against God himself.

The time is too far along for gentle persuasion now, so the brutal truth is all that is left, and I am afraid that as long as you remain Muslim, you will continue to be a fighter against the true God.

Of course the only way that can be changed is by coming over to the side of God's people something which other Muslims have done, but which in the case of Muslims especially takes a great deal of courage.

Even to investigate the truth of it requires courage for a Muslim since the moment you start you will be under threat of death by your own people.

That is how afraid Islam is of it's adherents finding out the truth about it.

Take absolutely NO notice of MCB for he is proven insane!

Just recently he made the following claims -

At 10/2/2014 1:51:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have, in my weakness, been granted that privilege which is the only reason why I can see and understand things you cannot.

So MCB claims ' divine privileges ' to assert his ideology!

Part of his ' divine privileges ' MCB stated & claimed -

At 10/2/2014 3:57:01 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
. . . . His (i.e. biblical gods) home is the heavens and he does not leave there.

I then proceeded yet again to successfully expose MCB as an idiot, who has no idea that his own propaganda totally refutes him, as this following example taken from his own supposedly preferred propaganda unambiguously proves-

And Jehovah proceeded to go down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. . . . . (Gen. 11:5) Botchtower propaganda

So MCB claimed his ' divine privileges ' from his god, told him that his god never leaves heaven!

However! fatal to MCB, Gen. 11:5 taken from MCB's own bible propaganda, exposes MCB as a fraud, liar and deceiver, with absolutely NO ' divine priveleges ' but only his human carnal arrogance, error and BS ideology!

In other words whatever MCB claims and asserts, his ideology is a proven fraudulent one!

Unlike you I don't assume everyone else is too stupid to make up their own minds, or to check up on what I say..
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/3/2014 9:14:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

read Bart Ehrman new book "How Jesus became God" Bart asnwers that question and slam bro :D
Never fart near dog
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/3/2014 10:51:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

The trouble is that, as a Muslim, you are a part of one of the most powerful of Satan's counterfeits, formed from the descendants of Abraham's illegitimate son, who was prophesied to be the father of the worst enemies of God's people, Israel. This has proved to be true for many centuries, and still is today, even though the physical nation of Israel is no longer God's people.

However your people are still the enemies of God's people and have banned their God given work in all your territories, under threat of a death sentence if caught.

Since you fight against God's people on earth that makes you fighters against God himself.

The time is too far along for gentle persuasion now, so the brutal truth is all that is left, and I am afraid that as long as you remain Muslim, you will continue to be a fighter against the true God.

Of course the only way that can be changed is by coming over to the side of God's people something which other Muslims have done, but which in the case of Muslims especially takes a great deal of courage.

Even to investigate the truth of it requires courage for a Muslim since the moment you start you will be under threat of death by your own people.

That is how afraid Islam is of it's adherents finding out the truth about it.

You have no idea what the "Son of God" means, MCB. You toss this phrase around as if you understand what it means but you cannot give it's deeper meaning that only God's invisible servant understands.
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 2:31:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 10:51:20 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

The trouble is that, as a Muslim, you are a part of one of the most powerful of Satan's counterfeits, formed from the descendants of Abraham's illegitimate son, who was prophesied to be the father of the worst enemies of God's people, Israel. This has proved to be true for many centuries, and still is today, even though the physical nation of Israel is no longer God's people.

However your people are still the enemies of God's people and have banned their God given work in all your territories, under threat of a death sentence if caught.

Since you fight against God's people on earth that makes you fighters against God himself.

The time is too far along for gentle persuasion now, so the brutal truth is all that is left, and I am afraid that as long as you remain Muslim, you will continue to be a fighter against the true God.

Of course the only way that can be changed is by coming over to the side of God's people something which other Muslims have done, but which in the case of Muslims especially takes a great deal of courage.

Even to investigate the truth of it requires courage for a Muslim since the moment you start you will be under threat of death by your own people.

That is how afraid Islam is of it's adherents finding out the truth about it.

You have no idea what the "Son of God" means, MCB. You toss this phrase around as if you understand what it means but you cannot give it's deeper meaning that only God's invisible servant understands.

Well, at least I have far more of an idea of it than you do, so I can be content with that.
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 2:34:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 9:14:15 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

read Bart Ehrman new book "How Jesus became God" Bart asnwers that question and slam bro :D

Somehow I doubt it, he probably just gives an explanation which is just feasible enough for the gullible to believe. At least that is usually the way with these things, because Jesus never became God.

And no, I can't be bothered to read it, I know the real answer anyway.
annanicole
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10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

He's been doing THAT ever since He sat down at the right hand of the Father.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Emilrose
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10/3/2014 3:28:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
No. The teaching of Christianity is that he is the Messiah, and G-d's son.

As G-d is the one that supposedly decided Jesus' existence, it'd be pretty ridiculous (if you're Christian) to believe that he actually is G-d.
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MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 3:57:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 3:28:04 PM, Emilrose wrote:
No. The teaching of Christianity is that he is the Messiah, and G-d's son.

As G-d is the one that supposedly decided Jesus' existence, it'd be pretty ridiculous (if you're Christian) to believe that he actually is G-d.

Agreed 100%. It is not only ridiculous to believe in any form of triune godhead it is an insult to God and completely unscriptural.
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

He's been doing THAT ever since He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

No he has not, because as scripture says he had to wait there until his enemies were placed beneath his feet, meaning his enemies in the heavens, Satan and his demons. His enemies on or in the vicinity of the earth are put beneath his feet at the end of his reign.

Two different sets of enemies and two different contexts.. Another deep thing of God to which you have not been given access except through such as I.

When he was sat at the right hand of his father he was not on his throne, and he was, as the scripture says, simply waiting, and mediating for us.

Hebrews 10:12-13
ASV(i) 12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.

Romans 8:34
ASV(i) 34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Not ruling you note, simply interceding for us. Once he takes up his rule he no longer needs to intercede.

As always, scripture defeats your false doctrine every time, and your knowledge, and understanding, so scripture is so poor you always walk straight into the traps, wrongly assuming I can't find a scripture to counter you.
annanicole
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10/3/2014 4:12:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

He's been doing THAT ever since He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

No he has not, because as scripture says he had to wait there until his enemies were placed beneath his feet, meaning his enemies in the heavens, Satan and his demons. His enemies on or in the vicinity of the earth are put beneath his feet at the end of his reign.

Scripture doesn't say that, or anything close to that. LMAO @ you do not even think Jesus was reigning as king over His kingdom in the first century.

Two different sets of enemies and two different contexts.. Another deep thing of God to which you have not been given access except through such as I.

Pffffft

When he was sat at the right hand of his father he was not on his throne, and he was, as the scripture says, simply waiting, and mediating for us.

Hebrews 10:12-13
ASV(i) 12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.

Romans 8:34
ASV(i) 34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Not ruling you note, simply interceding for us. Once he takes up his rule he no longer needs to intercede.

That's an absurd conclusion. Who told you that the fact that Christ intercedes for us means that He is not reigning?

As always, scripture defeats your false doctrine every time, and your knowledge, and understanding, so scripture is so poor you always walk straight into the traps, wrongly assuming I can't find a scripture to counter you.

I sure didn't see one. Why don't you cite the scriptures?

Is your doctrine that the kingdom existed on earth in the first century, but there was no reigning king? If so, that's the height of absurdity (which wouldn't surprise me).
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Emilrose
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10/3/2014 4:13:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 3:57:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:28:04 PM, Emilrose wrote:
No. The teaching of Christianity is that he is the Messiah, and G-d's son.

As G-d is the one that supposedly decided Jesus' existence, it'd be pretty ridiculous (if you're Christian) to believe that he actually is G-d.

Agreed 100%. It is not only ridiculous to believe in any form of triune godhead it is an insult to God and completely unscriptural.

Yep. Both the Old and New Testament make it clear that the Messiah is of G-d, but not G-d himself. There is absolutely no biblical support for any contrary claims whatsoever.
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Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

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John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/3/2014 4:20:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:13:50 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:57:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:28:04 PM, Emilrose wrote:
No. The teaching of Christianity is that he is the Messiah, and G-d's son.

As G-d is the one that supposedly decided Jesus' existence, it'd be pretty ridiculous (if you're Christian) to believe that he actually is G-d.

Agreed 100%. It is not only ridiculous to believe in any form of triune godhead it is an insult to God and completely unscriptural.

Yep. Both the Old and New Testament make it clear that the Messiah is of G-d, but not G-d himself. There is absolutely no biblical support for any contrary claims whatsoever.

I prefer to think of them as the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, because there is nothing in the Christian Greek scriptures that really qualifies them as "new", since all they really do is expand on and provide confirming evidence of what the Hebrew scriptures teach.

Interestingly both sets of scriptures speak of God's son as being created by him, and his sole act of creation performed alone. Though admittedly the Hebrew Scriptures speak of him in the guise of Wisdom peronified (Proverbs 8).
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:12:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.


God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

He's been doing THAT ever since He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

No he has not, because as scripture says he had to wait there until his enemies were placed beneath his feet, meaning his enemies in the heavens, Satan and his demons. His enemies on or in the vicinity of the earth are put beneath his feet at the end of his reign.

Scripture doesn't say that, or anything close to that. LMAO @ you do not even think Jesus was reigning as king over His kingdom in the first century.

Scripture tells us he wasn't, so there is nothing else to think unless you disbelieve scripture.

The why does scripture say, as I have shown you, that Christ has to wait for his enemies to be put at his feet before he can rule and also that he must rule until his enemies are put beneath his feet.

Simple, tow different enemies in two different contexts, between which Christ must rule. So yes, that is precisely what the scriptures say

Again your lack of scriptural knowledge lets you down.


Two different sets of enemies and two different contexts.. Another deep thing of God to which you have not been given access except through such as I.

Pffffft

Of course you have no scriptural answer to that, as usual, because there isn't one, hence you lose out every time, and can only come up with replies such as that, proving that scripture is right when it differentiates between God's view and the views of the world you are so much a part of.


When he was sat at the right hand of his father he was not on his throne, and he was, as the scripture says, simply waiting, and mediating for us.

Hebrews 10:12-13
ASV(i) 12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.

Romans 8:34
ASV(i) 34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Not ruling you note, simply interceding for us. Once he takes up his rule he no longer needs to intercede.

That's an absurd conclusion. Who told you that the fact that Christ intercedes for us means that He is not reigning?

Scripture does, because when he is reigning he does not need to intercede because he is the one allowed to exercise the needed authority. You only need to intercede when someone else has greater authority.


As always, scripture defeats your false doctrine every time, and your knowledge, and understanding, so scripture is so poor you always walk straight into the traps, wrongly assuming I can't find a scripture to counter you.

I sure didn't see one. Why don't you cite the scriptures?

I not only cited them I quoted them above.


Is your doctrine that the kingdom existed on earth in the first century, but there was no reigning king? If so, that's the height of absurdity (which wouldn't surprise me).

Nothing absurd about it, the King designate existed and walked the earth, but as scripture tells us he did not actually take up his throne until 1914.

In fact there is a human example.

The UK has a queen, but she does not actually rule, the Government does that for her and she has little say in what it does. She certainly does not have the power to veto anything. So it is not so absurd, lol. English monarchy has not actually ruled for centuries and has long been little more than a figurehead, which is in essence what Christ was until he was allowed to exercise the authority he had been given.

I am sure that God is quite happy to hear you call his word " the height of absurdity" because that is what you are criticising, not the words of men, which you always put above scripture anyway.

Is it because you expect everything to be spelt out in detail for you with no thinking needed?
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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10/3/2014 5:02:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:12:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

Oh, c'mon. Be specific. In what sense(s) was/were the bodies of Adam and Eve "perfect".

The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Being born of an "unfertilized egg" equals "perfection"? That's a new one.

Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.

Stop the BS rambling and thoroughly describe this "perfect body".


God's law always works on a like for like basis, and his law applies to him also since he is not a hypocrite. He works on the principle of do what I do and what I say.

However, God's son had another role.

Israel had proven unfaithful and had therefore been abandoned as God's people on earth, and therefore had to be replaced.

It was only fair that the replacement be built on a faithful remnant of Israel and Jesus task was to seek those out, from Judah first, and then, through his Apostles after his death, from Samaria, which contained the somewhat diluted remnant of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, formed from the lost tribes, and finally from the rest of the nations of the earth, a work which is only being finalised during this time period.

Having fulfilled all his roles on earth he now leads from his throne in heaven.

He's been doing THAT ever since He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

No he has not, because as scripture says he had to wait there until his enemies were placed beneath his feet, meaning his enemies in the heavens, Satan and his demons. His enemies on or in the vicinity of the earth are put beneath his feet at the end of his reign.

Scripture doesn't say that, or anything close to that. LMAO @ you do not even think Jesus was reigning as king over His kingdom in the first century.

Scripture tells us he wasn't, so there is nothing else to think unless you disbelieve scripture.

So in the first century, we have a kingdom - but NO KING!

The why does scripture say, as I have shown you, that Christ has to wait for his enemies to be put at his feet before he can rule and also that he must rule until his enemies are put beneath his feet.

It doesn't say that, though. It says He must rule until all enemies are destroyed.



When he was sat at the right hand of his father he was not on his throne, and he was, as the scripture says, simply waiting, and mediating for us.

Hebrews 10:12-13
ASV(i) 12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.

Romans 8:34
ASV(i) 34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Not ruling you note, simply interceding for us. Once he takes up his rule he no longer needs to intercede.

That's an absurd conclusion. Who told you that the fact that Christ intercedes for us means that He is not reigning?

Scripture does, because when he is reigning he does not need to intercede because he is the one allowed to exercise the needed authority. You only need to intercede when someone else has greater authority.

So when this proposed WatchTower idea of a future kingdom comes to pass, the citizens will pray to Jesus?


As always, scripture defeats your false doctrine every time, and your knowledge, and understanding, so scripture is so poor you always walk straight into the traps, wrongly assuming I can't find a scripture to counter you.

I sure didn't see one. Why don't you cite the scriptures?

I not only cited them I quoted them above.


Is your doctrine that the kingdom existed on earth in the first century, but there was no reigning king? If so, that's the height of absurdity (which wouldn't surprise me).

Nothing absurd about it, the King designate existed and walked the earth, but as scripture tells us he did not actually take up his throne until 1914.

LMAO @ an existing kingdom, but only a "king-designate" for 1800+ years!

In fact there is a human example.

The UK has a queen, but she does not actually rule, the Government does that for her and she has little say in what it does. She certainly does not have the power to veto anything. So it is not so absurd, lol. English monarchy has not actually ruled for centuries and has long been little more than a figurehead, which is in essence what Christ was until he was allowed to exercise the authority he had been given.

To have a parallel, the UK would need to be the United Kingdom and NEVER YET HAD A REAL KING!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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10/3/2014 6:03:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:12:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.

You are rambling your usual nonsense, going in one big circle while never explicitly answering the question.

The plain truth of the matter is that the human body right now is born just as "perfect", just as "sinless", as Adam was when he was created.

And animal sacrifice did not atone for a single sin for a single minute, much less a day, period! What's the matter with you?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/3/2014 6:14:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why would you believe Muhammed? The Bible says the Quran is lies, and the Quran says the Bible is lies. They can't both be true, and Muhammed is the only source for the Quran. Twisting the Bible to say it supports the Quran while saying the Bible is full of lies would be saying your source is full of lies. So don't bother trying to say the Bible supports the Quran, it does not.

Now why in the world would anybody believe Muhammed and the Quran?
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 6:30:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 5:02:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

Oh, c'mon. Be specific. In what sense(s) was/were the bodies of Adam and Eve "perfect".

They were "perfect for the purpose God designed and created mankind for" they were to live eternally in perfect health to carry out their commission of caring for and filling the earth. Until they rebelled they had no sin in them.

Other than that we are not told.

That is why scripture calls Christ a "second Adam". 1 Corinthians 15:45
ASV(i) 45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

I can tell you no more than scripture, seen with the aid of holy spirit, tells me.


The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Being born of an "unfertilized egg" equals "perfection"? That's a new one.

No not new, I have said it before, but it is not complete.

God needed an fertilised egg to change into a "second Adam", as I said hence the virgin birth. One can only assume that holy spirit was used to alter the DNA of the egg by the amount necessary to turn it into a living male foetus. We are not given any more detail that that Mary was found to be "pregnant by holy spirit" which means some divine intervention has to be involved for Mary to get pregnant without human intervention. These things don't just happen by "magic". God neither needs nor uses magic.


Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.

Stop the BS rambling and thoroughly describe this "perfect body".


Scripture tells us he wasn't, so there is nothing else to think unless you disbelieve scripture.

So in the first century, we have a kingdom - but NO KING!


Again it is what scripture tells us. If you don;t like it, tough, it is how God planned it. Are you going to dare to tell God he was wrong when the time comes? like you are doing now behind his back, in a real sense.


It doesn't say that, though. It says He must rule until all enemies are destroyed.


Yes, and as I have also shown you it says he must wait until his enemies are placed beneath his feet.

The fact that it doesn't fit in with your human thinking just proves scripture right about that also.

Two sets of enemies - two different contexts one when Satan was cast out of heaven the otehr when he and all who choose to follow him are destroyed at the end of his reign. You can't just take one scripture and ignore the others. you have to work out how they can both apply, and that is how.



Scripture does, because when he is reigning he does not need to intercede because he is the one allowed to exercise the needed authority. You only need to intercede when someone else has greater authority.

So when this proposed WatchTower idea of a future kingdom comes to pass, the citizens will pray to Jesus?

It is not a watchtower idea it comes purely from scripture as I have shown you.

No-one should ever pray to Jesus we should, as Christ and the Apostles did, pray to God through the merit of Jesus sacrifice.

That is why Jesus model prayer, even when he was on earth began "Our father which art in heaven". That is why the Apostles praised that father, not Christ at 1 Peter 1:3 Ephesians 1:3 and in other places.


Nothing absurd about it, the King designate existed and walked the earth, but as scripture tells us he did not actually take up his throne until 1914.

LMAO @ an existing kingdom, but only a "king-designate" for 1800+ years!

Yup that is what scripture says whether it suits you or not. His kingship wasn't needed until this close to the end of God's time scale.

Your problem is that this is what scripture says whatever you think of it, so if you criticise it you are criticising God, since it is his word. You are in effect saying that his plan was working out too slowly for your liking.

However it is not up to us to eitehr like it or not, our place is to fit into it.

God's plan was set to work out inside his day of rest, and not end before that day of rest does. In fact it is what constitutes his day of rest, which ends when he takes the Kingdom back from his son and can once again deal directly with mankind make holy again, as Adam was until he rebelled.

It is the scriptural hints about God's day of rest which give us the time scale of 7,000 years for each of the creative days., and Daniel working out to make the start of Christ's 1,000 year reign, again as specified in scripture that gives us the 7,000 years to work with.

First clue - nowhere in scripture is the 7th day ended.

Second clue - Paul speaks of entering into God's rest. Hebrews 3:18-4:1
ASV(i) 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? 19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. 4 1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it."

It has only really dawned on me now that the reason you refuse to believe scripture is because you think God's plan is wrong, ridiculous, stupid. I hope you are going to have the courage to tell him that you think he is an idiot, a "tard" when face to face with Christ.

If you don't like what God has planned, fine that is your choice, but don;t pretend to be a Christian as you currently do. Being a Christian means accepting God's plans and supporting them, not criticising them.
Otokage
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10/3/2014 6:48:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

According to christians, he is God. According to other monotheistic religions, he's a "regular" prophet.

I don't believe Jesus existed, but if I were a christian, I would agree a man capable of all that must indeed be a God.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/3/2014 6:50:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 6:03:31 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:12:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:08:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 3:13:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:40:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 7:05:19 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I am a muslim, according to my belief:
Jesus is only a messenger and a servant of God.
I think, we are agree on this subject.

Not entirely. The truth lies between the two extremes.
God's son came to earth to occupy the body of Jesus, which had been specially prepared for him.

Yes, he was a messenger, but there was an awful lot more to it than that.

The reason he had to have a specially prepared human body to inhabit was that eh had to sacrifice it, on a like for like basis in exchange for the perfect human body that Adam and Eve ruined by their sin..

Could you point us to all scripture references that state that Jesus had a "perfect human body"? "Perfect" in what sense anyhow?

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.

You are rambling your usual nonsense, going in one big circle while never explicitly answering the question.

The plain truth of the matter is that the human body right now is born just as "perfect", just as "sinless", as Adam was when he was created.

And animal sacrifice did not atone for a single sin for a single minute, much less a day, period! What's the matter with you?

That just shows that you haven't read the law on animal sacrifice. There were daily sin sacrifices.

Leviticus 4:3-7: gives you all the detail you need on sin offerings, which do precisely what you say no sacrifice did. I suggest you read it, your scriptural education is even more lacking than I thought.

You don't even know what Christ's sacrifice was truly about.

Hebrews 2:17
ASV(i) 17 Wherefore it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Romans 3:25
ASV(i) 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;

Notice however it only covers "sin afore-time" sins prior to our baptism, not after.

Hebrews 7:26-27
ASV(i) 26 For such a high priest became us, holy, guileless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 who needeth not daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people: for this he did once for all, when he offered up himself.

Notice two things there.

First Paul says we approach God through Christ, not that we approach Christ, therefore all prayers must be to God an through Christ, not to Christ.

Second Paul compares the daily sacrifices for sin performed under the Mosaic Law to the one time only sin for sacrifice made by Christ.

So once again all you have done is exposed your own abysmal ignorance of scripture and scriptural matters to the world at large.
MadCornishBiker
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10/3/2014 6:52:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 6:48:21 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

According to christians, he is God. According to other monotheistic religions, he's a "regular" prophet.

I don't believe Jesus existed, but if I were a christian, I would agree a man capable of all that must indeed be a God.

Actually he is only God to false Christians, not to any who follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Those are true Christians and do not believe that Christ was anything but the incarnate son of God.

As God's son he had all the power of his father at his command as long as he was doing his father's will, which was always.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/3/2014 6:54:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 6:52:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 6:48:21 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

According to christians, he is God. According to other monotheistic religions, he's a "regular" prophet.

I don't believe Jesus existed, but if I were a christian, I would agree a man capable of all that must indeed be a God.

Actually he is only God to false Christians, not to any who follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Those are true Christians and do not believe that Christ was anything but the incarnate son of God.

As God's son he had all the power of his father at his command as long as he was doing his father's will, which was always.

Wasn't the christian God a trinity with Jesus as one of its elements?

Anyway, I'm amazed of your ability to distinguish "false christians" from "true christians". Impressive.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/3/2014 7:52:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:48:53 AM, frbnsn wrote:
This is the question!

It's a slippery slope if you are in the business to prove or disprove Jesus as being God in the flesh. People get really defensive about it. The Holy Bible contradicts itself so many times on the subject. Jesus' sermons also make the answer about as clear as mud. He refers to God as his father and also tells his followers to pray to their Father that is in heaven. It's all really complicated and it doesn't help that the Bible has been translated multiple times and some literal meanings have been lost in translation. Then comes the complicated doctrines of the Orthodox Churches and now modern Christianity adding it's own subjective take on it. It's an antiquated mess. Don't even get me going on organized religion. Probably much of the reason some people who grew up in Christian homes become disillusioned and opt for an atheist/scientific point of view. It's quite sad.

Jesus was a teacher. Maybe one of the best there have been. He's not the only one. There have been others but the Christian faith and Catholicism were built on his teachings. Was he enlightened? Obviously. Was he God made flesh? Maybe, probably not. If you read only Jesus' sermons and throw the rest out he was much more philosophical and spiritual than Orthodox.

I think we are all brothers and sisters from the same God. No matter what we call it. You and I even though we are from different faiths are his children.

It gets really disturbing when people start talking about Jesus' primary purpose. He was sent here in a special body so that we could brutally murder him so that we could then be forgiven. Okay, commit a sin so you can be forgiven for another sin? Unsavory if you ask me. No, I think he was real, not God made flesh (my Catholic mother would be so mad at me) and that we took a great message and capitalized on it and now it is lost.

We need a second coming ASAP so he can straighten this mess up. ;)
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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10/3/2014 8:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 6:30:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/3/2014 5:02:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/3/2014 4:39:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Perfect in teh same sense that the bodies of Adam and Eve were.

Oh, c'mon. Be specific. In what sense(s) was/were the bodies of Adam and Eve "perfect".

They were "perfect for the purpose God designed and created mankind for" they were to live eternally in perfect health to carry out their commission of caring for and filling the earth. Until they rebelled they had no sin in them.

Other than that we are not told.

That is why scripture calls Christ a "second Adam". 1 Corinthians 15:45
ASV(i) 45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

I can tell you no more than scripture, seen with the aid of holy spirit, tells me.


The body of Jesus had to be perfect in that sense which is why he also had to be from a virgin birth allowing God an unfertilised egg to work on.

Being born of an "unfertilized egg" equals "perfection"? That's a new one.

No not new, I have said it before, but it is not complete.

God needed an fertilised egg to change into a "second Adam", as I said hence the virgin birth. One can only assume that holy spirit was used to alter the DNA of the egg by the amount necessary to turn it into a living male foetus. We are not given any more detail that that Mary was found to be "pregnant by holy spirit" which means some divine intervention has to be involved for Mary to get pregnant without human intervention. These things don't just happen by "magic". God neither needs nor uses magic.


Why did he have to be perfect in the sense of "perfect for the purpose for which humans were created", because he had to atone for the loss of the perfection that Adam threw away and God's law demands like for like exchange, which is what the Israelites were supposed to learn from the fact that animal sacrifice was only sufficient to atone for one day at a time, not for eternity as the sacrifice Christ performed was.

Stop the BS rambling and thoroughly describe this "perfect body".


Scripture tells us he wasn't, so there is nothing else to think unless you disbelieve scripture.

So in the first century, we have a kingdom - but NO KING!


Again it is what scripture tells us. If you don;t like it, tough, it is how God planned it. Are you going to dare to tell God he was wrong when the time comes? like you are doing now behind his back, in a real sense.


It doesn't say that, though. It says He must rule until all enemies are destroyed.


Yes, and as I have also shown you it says he must wait until his enemies are placed beneath his feet.

The fact that it doesn't fit in with your human thinking just proves scripture right about that also.

Two sets of enemies - two different contexts one when Satan was cast out of heaven the otehr when he and all who choose to follow him are destroyed at the end of his reign. You can't just take one scripture and ignore the others. you have to work out how they can both apply, and that is how.



Scripture does, because when he is reigning he does not need to intercede because he is the one allowed to exercise the needed authority. You only need to intercede when someone else has greater authority.

So when this proposed WatchTower idea of a future kingdom comes to pass, the citizens will pray to Jesus?

It is not a watchtower idea it comes purely from scripture as I have shown you.

No-one should ever pray to Jesus we should, as Christ and the Apostles did, pray to God through the merit of Jesus sacrifice.

That is why Jesus model prayer, even when he was on earth began "Our father which art in heaven". That is why the Apostles praised that father, not Christ at 1 Peter 1:3 Ephesians 1:3 and in other places.


Nothing absurd about it, the King designate existed and walked the earth, but as scripture tells us he did not actually take up his throne until 1914.

LMAO @ an existing kingdom, but only a "king-designate" for 1800+ years!

Yup that is what scripture says whether it suits you or not. His kingship wasn't needed until this close to the end of God's time scale.

Your problem is that this is what scripture says whatever you think of it, so if you criticise it you are criticising God, since it is his word. You are in effect saying that his plan was working out too slowly for your liking.

However it is not up to us to eitehr like it or not, our place is to fit into it.

God's plan was set to work out inside his day of rest, and not end before that day of rest does. In fact it is what constitutes his day of rest, which ends when he takes the Kingdom back from his son and can once again deal directly with mankind make holy again, as Adam was until he rebelled.

It is the scriptural hints about God's day of rest which give us the time scale of 7,000 years for each of the creative days., and Daniel working out to make the start of Christ's 1,000 year reign, again as specified in scripture that gives us the 7,000 years to work with.

First clue - nowhere in scripture is the 7th day ended.

Second clue - Paul speaks of entering into God's rest. Hebrews 3:18-4:1
ASV(i) 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? 19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. 4 1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it."

It has only really dawned on me now that the reason you refuse to believe scripture is because you think God's plan is wrong, ridiculous, stupid. I hope you are going to have the courage to tell him that you think he is an idiot, a "tard" when face to face with Christ.

If you don't like what God has planned, fine that is your choice, but don;t pretend to be a Christian as you currently do. Being a Christian means accepting God's plans and supporting them, not criticising them.

I never said God is a tard or an idiot. I said you are.

It would take a slap fool to run around loose claiming that a "kingdom" existed in the first century, but it had no king. That's like saying, "I live under a dictatorship." To which someone replies, "Well, who's the dictator?" Then you answer like the true tard that you are, "Oh, we don't have one."

A kingdom cannot exist without a king, subjects, laws, and territory. Remove or destroy any one of these essential elements and the entire nature of the thing is changed. Thus you cannot have a kingdom without subjects. You cannot have a kingdom without a king.

I asked if you have big plans to pray to Jesus instead of the Father at some point in the future. You don't know.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."