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A Moral Test for Christians

ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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10/2/2014 3:27:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
... or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

I would try to find a way to end the conflict with no deaths. And I try to avoid guns so that I would not have temptation to shoot anyone. :)
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self. im not sure why you asking this one about "shall not kill" its a general rule, but there are exceptional situations in life forces us to act right not and not foolishly following something without understanding of the situation.
Never fart near dog
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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10/2/2014 6:42:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self. im not sure why you asking this one about "shall not kill" its a general rule, but there are exceptional situations in life forces us to act right not and not foolishly following something without understanding of the situation.

Well said.
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ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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10/3/2014 1:02:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self. im not sure why you asking this one about "shall not kill" its a general rule, but there are exceptional situations in life forces us to act right not and not foolishly following something without understanding of the situation.

Well you must understand that atheists don't accept that words can have more than one meaning in the Bible. So for example, when you show them 2 verses, on saying, "The morning and the evening were the first DAY...." and, In Abraham's DAY..., they will insist that DAY must mean the same think or the Christian is trying to "squirm" away from the truth.

Oh, they themselves use words with multiple meanings everyday, but suddenly become obtuse when the Bible does it. So the passage says, "Thou shalt no KILL..." For the atheist, that's it. Close the book and cue the 5 year old interpretations. For now, they're hyper-literalists.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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10/4/2014 1:33:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self. im not sure why you asking this one about "shall not kill" its a general rule, but there are exceptional situations in life forces us to act right not and not foolishly following something without understanding of the situation.

No, actually not all - I would say ALMOST all. There are some genuinely committed pacifists out there and they will not defend themselves. Regardless of whether you or I accept their decision, the fact of the matter is that some people genuinely accept pacifism ... and would not be carrying a gun in the first place.

There are some additional things to consider:

#1 - Exactly how do you know a man with a knife is trying to kill you? In the vast majority of these situations a man approaching a family wants something other than 'death' and can be ...mollified by other means.

That include merely taking out the gun and 'threatenng the assailant.

#2 - There is always the option of running, distracting, hiding, calling for help.

#3 - Unless you are a sociopath, the vast majority of human beings will avoid pulling a trigger - especially if there is a way not too available. The 'proverbial' man with a knife intent on killing for killings sake is exceptionally rare and by the time such an intent is revealed? Well, most criminals are not stupid, and it most likely that they would be ambushing you rather than walking up zombie style and announcing they intent to kill you.

So what would you do if the knife wielding assailant had a knife to your child's throat? You really think you are going to pull a Hollywood and shoot the inch of criminal exposed behind your child?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/4/2014 1:52:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self.

One would think; but this isn't always true. Some people can't bring themselves to utilize lethal force against another, even to save their own lives. Witness the laundromat owner found dead from 17 stab wounds, with his fully loaded .38 special still in his hand. If you own a handgun for protection, part of the training recommended is to think your way through scenarios, paying special attention to when you believe the situation has crossed the line. One must be mentally prepared to utilize lethal force BEFORE they are threatened by lethal force.

To respond to the topic, it's pretty clear that Christians are not supposed to utilize lethal force to defend themselves, yet many proudly join the military and will engage in the use of lethal force as the aggressor, and still think of themselves as proud and honorable Christians.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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10/4/2014 2:17:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 1:52:57 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self.


To respond to the topic, it's pretty clear that Christians are not supposed to utilize lethal force to defend themselves, yet many proudly join the military and will engage in the use of lethal force as the aggressor, and still think of themselves as proud and honorable Christians.

Right ... because a heavily biased atheist says say - even though Christian doctrine, like the Just War Doctrine, guidance on self defense disagrees. Indeed, if what you say is true, my denomination (and many others) would excommunicate all military and law enforcement personnel - they don't. I daresay that seminary trained theologians stooped in the doctrine and rigorously examined in the faith MIGHT have better insight into the issue than ///

Well, I am sure the extremist atheist has the 'best' insight into the ethical implications of 'not killing' - which is accepted by almost all Christian doctrine as not taking INNOCENT life.

Although there are a few avowedly pacifistic Christian denominations, these remain the minority.

Again though, its nice to see atheists just adopt a position and tell us how we are supposed to think and behave - as opposed to actually discussing the moral implications of self defense once again, and offer up an opinion as to whether or not its defensible or not.

Really appreciate having someone tell us what we believe though.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/4/2014 2:48:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 1:52:57 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self.

One would think; but this isn't always true. Some people can't bring themselves to utilize lethal force against another, even to save their own lives. Witness the laundromat owner found dead from 17 stab wounds, with his fully loaded .38 special still in his hand. If you own a handgun for protection, part of the training recommended is to think your way through scenarios, paying special attention to when you believe the situation has crossed the line. One must be mentally prepared to utilize lethal force BEFORE they are threatened by lethal force.

To respond to the topic, it's pretty clear that Christians are not supposed to utilize lethal force to defend themselves, yet many proudly join the military and will engage in the use of lethal force as the aggressor, and still think of themselves as proud and honorable Christians.

Where do you get your assumptions? This is not true.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/5/2014 1:14:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 1:02:36 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 6:21:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

regardless the man's faith everybody will blow his @ss off. when danger is close its human nature to defend own self. im not sure why you asking this one about "shall not kill" its a general rule, but there are exceptional situations in life forces us to act right not and not foolishly following something without understanding of the situation.

Well you must understand that atheists don't accept that words can have more than one meaning in the Bible. So for example, when you show them 2 verses, on saying, "The morning and the evening were the first DAY...." and, In Abraham's DAY..., they will insist that DAY must mean the same think or the Christian is trying to "squirm" away from the truth.

Oh, they themselves use words with multiple meanings everyday, but suddenly become obtuse when the Bible does it. So the passage says, "Thou shalt no KILL..." For the atheist, that's it. Close the book and cue the 5 year old interpretations. For now, they're hyper-literalists.

The word "kill" is an English translation. The word in Hebrew was never used to denote the taking of life by government officials or soldiers. And every other occurrence of the word was translated as murderer or man slayer.

And the word for killing used with scenes like sacrificial slaying was a different word.

The Atheist says the word has 1 meaning and it is what they want it to mean. But word meaning comes from context, audience, language, and time period. the Atheist avoids this consideration all together like you have said.

But even worst is the Atheist builds an argument on the English translation of a word and considers nothing about the original word, it's meaning, context, time period.

how stupid does this sound... Let's have a super literal interpretation of everything word for word of an English translation of a Latin translation of Greek translation of a Hebrew religious text. Avoiding every Hebrew grammatical syntax and wording that denotes poetry imagery or words whose definition is obscured by now.

It sounds foolish when a christian KJV bible thumper fundamentalist does it.. and equally as foolish when an Atheist does it.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/5/2014 1:17:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Turning the cheek is about retaliating. As a soldier or protector of my family it would be about defending life.

defending life is more honorable than taking it.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/5/2014 2:43:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 1:17:41 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Turning the cheek is about retaliating.
It's more about not retaliating, not defending one's self, and freely offering one's self to attack.

As a soldier or protector of my family it would be about defending life.
"Defending life"... by taking life"? Which is the opposite of not defending one's self from attack.

defending life is more honorable than taking it.
And still contrary to turning the other cheek.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/5/2014 11:24:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

If sin in God"s sight was the letter of the law, then Jesus would have been a sinner by His doings, and food gathering on the Sabbath. Or in the case of killing, King David would have suffered a separation from the Lord his God. Therefore its your interpretation of what is sinning against God of Israel is about.

So your question in the true Christian context, isn"t moral in the biblical sense, because the Commandment are relative to God, not man.

Adam and Eve fell by following doubt about trusting God, (the words spoken by the serpent) and not trusting the Word of God, the commandment spoken to Adam. Which is what God sees.

And why Faith (trust/ belief) is key to salvation and not one"s ability to fulfill the law given by the hand of Moses.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/5/2014 12:12:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:43:34 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:17:41 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Turning the cheek is about retaliating.
It's more about not retaliating, not defending one's self, and freely offering one's self to attack.

The parable about turning the other cheek, has the subject being attacked is me. The lesson I gather from the phrase and surrounding scripture is evil will propagate if everyone retaliate at each offense. And good people should be stoppers to evil. Kind of like "the buck stops here". Not with violence but love.

As a soldier or protector of my family it would be about defending life.
"Defending life"... by taking life"? Which is the opposite of not defending one's self from attack.

When tasks with the role of protector for nation or family, one has a responsibility. Just like mothers dawn a responsibility to protect their children. The subject being attacked is not me. I'm acting to aid and help others. A selfless act.

Of course we could go into a long debate about no act really being selfless. but My point is the actions of a protector are for the safety and welfare of others.

To me it is perfectly ethical:
During the protecting of many lives, it is permissible to kill a few.


defending life is more honorable than taking it.
And still contrary to turning the other cheek.

You are taking a hyper literal interpretation of turning of the cheek. When it could very well be hyperbole.

If you are trying to save the lives of 3 people and 1 person is intent on killing them. Then I see no qualm in killing the 1.

in a real world situation I would try what I could for a solution with no fatalities. but if time not permitting and other factors I have to think of the most I could save right then and there.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/5/2014 12:30:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

You can let him kill you, and you can let him kill your family and your dog.
Or you can kill the man. Or you can find a way to end the conflict without death at the moment. If you all end up crippled for life but not dead, well, nobody died.... and hopefully you can find a good home for your dog where people who are not too crippled can take care of it. I hope this helps you resolve this problem of knowing what you should do in a situation as described.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/5/2014 4:42:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 12:12:41 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:43:34 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:17:41 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Turning the cheek is about retaliating.
It's more about not retaliating, not defending one's self, and freely offering one's self to attack.

The parable about turning the other cheek, has the subject being attacked is me. The lesson I gather from the phrase and surrounding scripture is evil will propagate if everyone retaliate at each offense. And good people should be stoppers to evil. Kind of like "the buck stops here". Not with violence but love.

As a soldier or protector of my family it would be about defending life.
"Defending life"... by taking life"? Which is the opposite of not defending one's self from attack.

When tasks with the role of protector for nation or family, one has a responsibility. Just like mothers dawn a responsibility to protect their children. The subject being attacked is not me. I'm acting to aid and help others. A selfless act.

Of course we could go into a long debate about no act really being selfless. but My point is the actions of a protector are for the safety and welfare of others.

To me it is perfectly ethical:
During the protecting of many lives, it is permissible to kill a few.


defending life is more honorable than taking it.
And still contrary to turning the other cheek.

You are taking a hyper literal interpretation of turning of the cheek. When it could very well be hyperbole.

If you are trying to save the lives of 3 people and 1 person is intent on killing them. Then I see no qualm in killing the 1.

in a real world situation I would try what I could for a solution with no fatalities. but if time not permitting and other factors I have to think of the most I could save right then and there.

Well said.
Idealist
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10/5/2014 6:22:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths?

This is a question for christians since this question bothered me last night.

It has long been debated whether "killing" referred to "the taking of life" or "murder." After all, Moses himself threw the tablets containing the Ten Commandments down upon the sinners who refused to repent right after they were written, killing them all. It's one of those subjects which is represented in different ways throughout the Bible. David prayed to God thanking him for giving David the skill to kill his enemies.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/5/2014 6:57:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

Why did Jesus get on to Simon when the guards tried to carry Jesus away? It was because Simon tried to use self defense to protect his friend and messiah.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/5/2014 7:33:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 6:57:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

Why did Jesus get on to Simon when the guards tried to carry Jesus away? It was because Simon tried to use self defense to protect his friend and messiah.

Jesus got on to Simon, not because defending one's self is wrong. but because Simon's actions were impeding the work God's will wanted done. Which is why jesus scolded Simon with the words "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/5/2014 8:48:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 7:33:36 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/5/2014 6:57:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

Why did Jesus get on to Simon when the guards tried to carry Jesus away? It was because Simon tried to use self defense to protect his friend and messiah.

Jesus got on to Simon, not because defending one's self is wrong. but because Simon's actions were impeding the work God's will wanted done. Which is why jesus scolded Simon with the words "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"

What about the turn the other cheek? Romans states that we should not seek vengeance for it is the Lords.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/6/2014 1:51:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 6:57:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

Why did Jesus get on to Simon when the guards tried to carry Jesus away? It was because Simon tried to use self defense to protect his friend and messiah.

It was because He knew it had to be done. He was prepared.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/6/2014 2:00:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 8:48:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/5/2014 7:33:36 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/5/2014 6:57:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

Why did Jesus get on to Simon when the guards tried to carry Jesus away? It was because Simon tried to use self defense to protect his friend and messiah.

Jesus got on to Simon, not because defending one's self is wrong. but because Simon's actions were impeding the work God's will wanted done. Which is why jesus scolded Simon with the words "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"

What about the turn the other cheek? Romans states that we should not seek vengeance for it is the Lords.

Protecting oneself is not vengeance, it's protecting oneself.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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10/6/2014 2:04:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Could someone create a comprehensive list of the justifications for killing another human being?
Those who believe it justifiable that is.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MsIndependent
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10/6/2014 3:20:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:04:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Could someone create a comprehensive list of the justifications for killing another human being?
Those who believe it justifiable that is.

When it's self defense. Is this absurd to you?..that Christians are able to protect themselves and their family from death?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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10/6/2014 4:32:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 3:20:16 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:04:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Could someone create a comprehensive list of the justifications for killing another human being?
Those who believe it justifiable that is.

When it's self defense. Is this absurd to you?..that Christians are able to protect themselves and their family from death?

So that is the entirety of your list?
I'm not sure you are being strictly honest here.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/6/2014 4:34:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 4:32:29 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/6/2014 3:20:16 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:04:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Could someone create a comprehensive list of the justifications for killing another human being?
Those who believe it justifiable that is.

When it's self defense. Is this absurd to you?..that Christians are able to protect themselves and their family from death?

So that is the entirety of your list?
I'm not sure you are being strictly honest here.

Feel free to enlighten me Sir Bulproof.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/6/2014 4:53:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 4:39:15 PM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/4/2014 7:49:35 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/4/2014 2:46:00 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:06:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
This is according to the biblical moral principle of thou shall not kill.

Scenario: Your in your home or walking down the streets at night with a spouse and your kids. A man comes up with a knife and he is going to kill your family. You fortunately have a gun or knife on you. What do you do? Kill the man, let him kill, or do you find a way to end the conflict with no deaths

If he made a move towards my family, I'd kill him.

So you'd be willing to sin in order to protect your family?

Protecting yourself is not sin.
""If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;" Exodus 22:2

That's an interesting interpretation of... "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." (KJV).

I dare say, the older interpretation appears to be saying that there shall be no bloodshed in regard to the one killing the thief, not that he has done nothing wrong. If the killer smites an innocent, then there is bloodshed in punishing the killer. If the killer smites a thief, then there is no bloodshed in punishing the killer. It doesn't say the killer has done nothing wrong, or shouldn't be punished. And let's remember that Jesus often opposed the standards of the Old Testament.

What all of this shows is what is commonly shown when analyzing various verses from the Bible. When you group a collection of different written ideas, from different people, different times, and different cultures, you generate many contradictions. The authors of these texts clearly did not agree.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire