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Muslims, think about pilgrimage...

Artur
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10/3/2014 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims, especially christians in this way: "if they spent the money they spent for alcohol for the poors, there would be less poors in the world"

now, it is your turn, if you give the money you are spending for pilgrimage to the poors, that will be so beneficial for the world.

Now, a person from the USA, if he makes a pilgrimage, I have no doubt that it will cost at least 3000 dollars, but does it have any benefit to the world? Yes, it has: you contribute to the economy of Saudi Arabia, touristic organisations and airlines.

But what if you did not do pilgrimage and spent that money for helping to the poors? I think that would be as effective as the money you accuse of being spent for *alcohol*

any ideas?
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/3/2014 6:07:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:51:34 PM, Artur wrote:
Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims, especially christians in this way: "if they spent the money they spent for alcohol for the poors, there would be less poors in the world"

now, it is your turn, if you give the money you are spending for pilgrimage to the poors, that will be so beneficial for the world.

Now, a person from the USA, if he makes a pilgrimage, I have no doubt that it will cost at least 3000 dollars, but does it have any benefit to the world? Yes, it has: you contribute to the economy of Saudi Arabia, touristic organisations and airlines.

But what if you did not do pilgrimage and spent that money for helping to the poors? I think that would be as effective as the money you accuse of being spent for *alcohol*

any ideas?

Seems reasonable, though making pilgrimage to Mecca doesn't seem to negatively impact the world.

On the other hand, alcohol consumption is an enormous negative for the world.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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10/3/2014 9:15:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims"

its not only muslims everybody not seeing themselves including the muslims on certain things...

and LoL you know pilgrimage is for only for once in life time its a bad example and we doing it beside the charity (they are from the 5 pillars of islam) so a muslim should do the 2... but spending money for alcohol and stuff its on daily basis i guess... its better to say not to go every game of chelsea/arsenal or any sport sutff because its lot of money... but anyway everybody has the problem to spend money for insignificant things on daily basis instead helping needy people.... we are all guilty i think...
Never fart near dog
Artur
Posts: 719
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10/4/2014 6:50:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 9:15:38 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
"Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims"

its not only muslims everybody not seeing themselves including the muslims on certain things...

and LoL you know pilgrimage is for only for once in life time its a bad example and we doing it beside the charity (they are from the 5 pillars of islam) so a muslim should do the 2... but spending money for alcohol and stuff its on daily basis i guess... its better to say not to go every game of chelsea/arsenal or any sport sutff because its lot of money... but anyway everybody has the problem to spend money for insignificant things on daily basis instead helping needy people.... we are all guilty i think...

it does not matter how many times you do it. Now, think about it: each year, let us say 1 000 000 people visits mecca just for pilgrimage. Let us say, the average expense they make is 1 500 dollars. Now, multiply 1 000 000 with 1 500. What will it make? 1 500 000 000. now, this amount of money is spent for the economy of saudi arabia(or the country which mecca belongs to), airline companies and e.t.c

this expense(the expense which is done for mecca) is not an indispensable thing for a person, a person can live without making a pilgrimage too, if that money was spent for the poors of somali or africa, how good would it be?

Ok, ignoree africa, ignore the poors, at least spend tat money for the muslims of palestine. When you criticise non muslims for the money they spend for the thing they do not need, you criticise but why do yourself not criticise muslims for such plight? Ignor the poors, ignor the humanity, at least help to your muslim brothers in palestine. C. ronaldo did it.

Or please, stop criticising people for the money they spent for playstation, alcohol and e.t.c
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/4/2014 8:19:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Obviously, there would be less poverty if we all spent more money on charity. But that doesn't only apply to alcohol, it applies to all the luxury and clothing you buy in your life.

Your pair of nikes was probably made by somebody who lived a life so horrible, you wouldn't last two minutes of it. So anyone who spends money on anything else than charity and meditate on compassion is guilty of making poverty remain in the world.
Artur
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10/4/2014 8:35:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:19:42 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
Obviously, there would be less poverty if we all spent more money on charity. But that doesn't only apply to alcohol, it applies to all the luxury and clothing you buy in your life.

Your pair of nikes was probably made by somebody who lived a life so horrible, you wouldn't last two minutes of it. So anyone who spends money on anything else than charity and meditate on compassion is guilty of making poverty remain in the world.

now, in general, you are right. But my point was different:

muslims(it is not allowed to drink alcohol in islam) see alcohol as a waste of money because to drink it is useless, it has no benefit to the person who drinks it. Or, they also see smoking in this. They see that these are useless and buying this is a waste of money, it should have been spent for the poverty, they think. I am not accusing them for making a pilgrimage, I will not and do not see it as a waste, what my I intended to mean was:

if pilgrimage is something that is not useless for you, the same can be said for alcohol. As haj is important for you, alcohol may also be something that is necessary for them.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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10/4/2014 9:04:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 6:50:14 AM, Artur wrote:
At 10/3/2014 9:15:38 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
"Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims"

its not only muslims everybody not seeing themselves including the muslims on certain things...

and LoL you know pilgrimage is for only for once in life time its a bad example and we doing it beside the charity (they are from the 5 pillars of islam) so a muslim should do the 2... but spending money for alcohol and stuff its on daily basis i guess... its better to say not to go every game of chelsea/arsenal or any sport sutff because its lot of money... but anyway everybody has the problem to spend money for insignificant things on daily basis instead helping needy people.... we are all guilty i think...

it does not matter how many times you do it. Now, think about it: each year, let us say 1 000 000 people visits mecca just for pilgrimage. Let us say, the average expense they make is 1 500 dollars. Now, multiply 1 000 000 with 1 500. What will it make? 1 500 000 000. now, this amount of money is spent for the economy of saudi arabia(or the country which mecca belongs to), airline companies and e.t.c

dude thats is funny its only once in life... why you need to be so genius about that, how many things we do in life and you see only the "pilgrimage"? which is only once? i telling you beside that to all muslims its obligation to help the poor because its from the 5 pillars of Islam:
1 Shahadah: declaration of faith
2 Salat:: prayer
3 Zakat: chariy
4 Sawm: fasting
5 Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca

and i think you know that because you always talking about islam in some knowledge behind. so you criticising the muslims for "not" paying charity and to neglecting the pilgrimage (once in life? WTF) to earn more money.. wow... ok i have questions for u:

how much your car costed why you dont but a car in a lesser price than you have? or how many cars do you have? do you have excess electrical products in your house? how many TVs do you have? nowdays every house has atleast 4 TV every perosn has one in his room, xbox 360 psp pc ? how many shoes do you have? how many excess clothes?
how many times you went on vacations? or its popular nowdays to go to sports stuff like games of soccer (it real costs lot of money in games like arsenal MU bayren and what not...),baseball olympic games think how many times people doing it repeating in a year, in one game there are thousands of thousands of people paying for it and its 1 game think how many games there are in a week (only!). in a month and in a year.
how many money do you waste in a day for insufficient stuff like excessive food are you starving? ,clubs, cinemas hanging out with friends/wife in a month?
are you wasting your weekends sleeping all night or watching tv? friends? why wasting time go to work and give to the poor..... if you want i need to continue tell me

NOW TAKE ALL OF THIS AND CALCULATE OF ALL THESE IN A LIFE TIME (PILGRIMAGE IS ONLY IN LIFE TIME) HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN GIVE TO THE POOR AND YOU WASTING YOUR TIME BULLSH1TTING HERE. i can call you a hypocrite or its offense to you?


this expense(the expense which is done for mecca) is not an indispensable thing for a person, a person can live without making a pilgrimage too,

its not about living its part of the religion like prayer marraige...

if that money was spent for the poors of somali or africa, how good would it be?

muslims already need to pay charity every year (obligation!) and you have a problme for something we do once...


Ok, ignoree africa, ignore the poors, at least spend tat money for the muslims of palestine. When you criticise non muslims for the money they spend for the thing they do not need, you criticise but why do yourself not criticise muslims for such plight?

"you you you"... i said i criticising non muslims for that? i saying everybody is a hypocrite including me and you wasting money on daily basis regardless muslim or not.

Ignor the poors, ignor the humanity, at least help to your muslim brothers in palestine. C. ronaldo did it.

how do you know what im doing anyway? now thats throwing crp at people out of anger i guess.


Or please, stop criticising people for the money they spent for playstation, alcohol and e.t.c

accusing people nonsense....criticising anyone here for that? everyone is guilty you and me but your problem you cant see your own self and critisicing muslims for some muslims saying that.... good job showing us a pure hypocrite go help the poor instead wasting time here. and we should critisicing everybody if somebody doing wrong you and me. peace.
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Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/4/2014 9:48:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:35:12 AM, Artur wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:19:42 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
Obviously, there would be less poverty if we all spent more money on charity. But that doesn't only apply to alcohol, it applies to all the luxury and clothing you buy in your life.

Your pair of nikes was probably made by somebody who lived a life so horrible, you wouldn't last two minutes of it. So anyone who spends money on anything else than charity and meditate on compassion is guilty of making poverty remain in the world.

now, in general, you are right. But my point was different:

muslims(it is not allowed to drink alcohol in islam) see alcohol as a waste of money because to drink it is useless, it has no benefit to the person who drinks it. Or, they also see smoking in this. They see that these are useless and buying this is a waste of money, it should have been spent for the poverty, they think. I am not accusing them for making a pilgrimage, I will not and do not see it as a waste, what my I intended to mean was:

if pilgrimage is something that is not useless for you, the same can be said for alcohol. As haj is important for you, alcohol may also be something that is necessary for them.

You're absolutely right my friend and that is precisely what I'm pointing. Muslims with the ability to actually have free time and not spending their entire life, dying from illness or terrorism that are enabled by religious mainjacks in their community, is in that sense just as guilty as anyone spending money on anything. Look at a country like Qatar:

the people there buy multi million dollar cars, and just crash them in the desert, leaving them there. That is their free time exercises. The wealthy here in the US are often despicable, repulsive individuals who diminish the value of human life ( wallmart, mcdonalds etc ). But they wouldn't waste their resources in this way.

The wealthy in muslim nations rather spend their money funding jihad and masjids teaching people intolerance and hatred, rather than ensuring clean water, education, human rights and so on. If we took the money from Saudi and just spread it to poeple all over the globe in need, then we would really have done massive things for our world. But that standard of intellectual honesty is not exactly something muslims are famous for possessing.
Artur
Posts: 719
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10/4/2014 2:41:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You totally got me wrong.
why you need to be so genius about that, how many things we do in life and you see only the "pilgrimage"? which is only once?
No, I have no any problem with pilgrimage. I will never blame/criticise a muslim/person for making a pilgrimage.

Now, I am talking about "criticising others for something they did/do while you are also doing that"

i am not criticising muslims for pilgrimage, do not get me wrong. I am just talking about people who criticises others for something they consider wrong. You consider it wrong does not mean this thing indeed is wrong or you consider it something to be criticised does not mean it indeed is something to be criticised. I am absolutely not talking about pilgrimage or task of religion.

i telling you beside that to all muslims its obligation to help the poor because its from the 5 pillars of Islam
I am as familiar with islam at least as an ordinary muslim is. I know about charity requirement of Islam. I read about Islam, and for me, as an agnostic, Islam is the only religion which makes sense.(with the worst followers, I apologise.) as far as I remember amount of charity needs to be equal to 1/40 of your annual income.

You give charity, your religion requires it, thanks for that. (as you mentioned later, )

so you criticising the muslims for "not" paying charity and to neglecting the pilgrimage (once in life?
I am not criticising "muslims" for "not helping poors". I have no any problem with someone who does not help others.

I am not talking about muslims, I am talking about "people who criticise others for the same thing they themself do"

if you are a muslim who does not criticise nonmuslims for wasting money for alcohol, I am not talking about you. If you are muslim who does it, then: I am talking about you.

I am not criticising you for pilgrimage, I am criticising you "for criticising others for the same thing you do" whether that is pilgrimage or another thing.

how much your car costed why you dont but a car in a lesser price than you have? or how many cars do you have?....

If I was a muslim who criticised others for "wasting money for purpose other than helping poor" then this questions of you might have made a sense. But I am not that. Why are you criticising me with asking these questions? I know, instead of comp, I could have helped the poor, but I have never criticised others in the way some muslims did.

NOW TAKE ALL OF THIS AND CALCULATE OF ALL THESE IN A LIFE TIME (PILGRIMAGE IS ONLY IN LIFE TIME) HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN GIVE TO THE POOR AND YOU WASTING YOUR TIME BULLSH1TTING HERE. i can call you a hypocrite or its offense to you?

Please, understand it: I never criticised others, I never disturbed others for the money they did not give to poverty, but the muslims I am talking about did this.

Do not ask me this questions, ask this questions to the muslims who do it.

muslims already need to pay charity every year (obligation!) and you have a problme for something we do once...
Yes, muslims already gave charity, they are already required to give. I have no problem with pilgrimage or charity.

What you did not understand is: 1. Topic of this thread is NOT pilgrimage, topic is: to criticise others for the subjective opinion.

It is amazing somebody criticises one another for spending money for alcohol while he does even not see spending money for another useless thing as something useless. What I am mentioning is this.

good job showing us a pure hypocrite go help the poor instead wasting time here. and we should critisicing everybody if somebody doing wrong you and me. peace.
I am not criticising people for spending money for useless things. Something which is useless for me may be something beneficial or important for others.

I think in this way, but majority of muslims do not. I waste/spend money/time for useless thing but I am not criticising or mocking others for doing that. Did you get?

how do you know what im doing anyway? now thats throwing crp at people out of anger i guess.

Thread is for people who does thing I mentioned above.

criticising anyone here for that? everyone is guilty you and me but your problem you cant see your own self

that is not my problem, that is the problem of muslims who criticise others for spending money for alcohol.

critisicing muslims for some muslims saying that...

No, no. I am not generalising muslims. I am not saying: "all muslims criticise others for spending money for alcohol"

i said some or majority of muslims. I am not talking about 100% of muslims, I am talking some/majority of them. Majority means about 51% or above. Maybe saying majority was wrong, I should have said some.

good job showing us a pure hypocrite go help the poor instead wasting time here.
You have to say such to muslims who criticise people for spending money for alcohol.
For ex: go and criticise muslims for spending money for pilgrimige instead of people who spend for alcohol.

if somebody doing wrong you and me. peace.
I never deny I err, I may make mistakes, if somebody suggests me to waste my time for job or studying, if somebody warns me for wasting my money for such thing, I will thank him. I will NOT try to find his mistakes. Peace.

Thank you your advice and warnings.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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10/5/2014 12:43:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 2:41:22 PM, Artur wrote:
You totally got me wrong.
why you need to be so genius about that, how many things we do in life and you see only the "pilgrimage"? which is only once?
No, I have no any problem with pilgrimage. I will never blame/criticise a muslim/person for making a pilgrimage.

Now, I am talking about "criticising others for something they did/do while you are also doing that"

i am not criticising muslims for pilgrimage, do not get me wrong. I am just talking about people who criticises others for something they consider wrong. You consider it wrong does not mean this thing indeed is wrong or you consider it something to be criticised does not mean it indeed is something to be criticised. I am absolutely not talking about pilgrimage or task of religion.

i telling you beside that to all muslims its obligation to help the poor because its from the 5 pillars of Islam
I am as familiar with islam at least as an ordinary muslim is. I know about charity requirement of Islam. I read about Islam, and for me, as an agnostic, Islam is the only religion which makes sense.(with the worst followers, I apologise.) as far as I remember amount of charity needs to be equal to 1/40 of your annual income.

You give charity, your religion requires it, thanks for that. (as you mentioned later, )

so you criticising the muslims for "not" paying charity and to neglecting the pilgrimage (once in life?
I am not criticising "muslims" for "not helping poors". I have no any problem with someone who does not help others.

I am not talking about muslims, I am talking about "people who criticise others for the same thing they themself do"

if you are a muslim who does not criticise nonmuslims for wasting money for alcohol, I am not talking about you. If you are muslim who does it, then: I am talking about you.

I am not criticising you for pilgrimage, I am criticising you "for criticising others for the same thing you do" whether that is pilgrimage or another thing.

how much your car costed why you dont but a car in a lesser price than you have? or how many cars do you have?....

If I was a muslim who criticised others for "wasting money for purpose other than helping poor" then this questions of you might have made a sense. But I am not that. Why are you criticising me with asking these questions? I know, instead of comp, I could have helped the poor, but I have never criticised others in the way some muslims did.

NOW TAKE ALL OF THIS AND CALCULATE OF ALL THESE IN A LIFE TIME (PILGRIMAGE IS ONLY IN LIFE TIME) HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN GIVE TO THE POOR AND YOU WASTING YOUR TIME BULLSH1TTING HERE. i can call you a hypocrite or its offense to you?

Please, understand it: I never criticised others, I never disturbed others for the money they did not give to poverty, but the muslims I am talking about did this.

Do not ask me this questions, ask this questions to the muslims who do it.

muslims already need to pay charity every year (obligation!) and you have a problme for something we do once...
Yes, muslims already gave charity, they are already required to give. I have no problem with pilgrimage or charity.

What you did not understand is: 1. Topic of this thread is NOT pilgrimage, topic is: to criticise others for the subjective opinion.

It is amazing somebody criticises one another for spending money for alcohol while he does even not see spending money for another useless thing as something useless. What I am mentioning is this.

good job showing us a pure hypocrite go help the poor instead wasting time here. and we should critisicing everybody if somebody doing wrong you and me. peace.
I am not criticising people for spending money for useless things. Something which is useless for me may be something beneficial or important for others.

I think in this way, but majority of muslims do not. I waste/spend money/time for useless thing but I am not criticising or mocking others for doing that. Did you get?

how do you know what im doing anyway? now thats throwing crp at people out of anger i guess.

Thread is for people who does thing I mentioned above.

criticising anyone here for that? everyone is guilty you and me but your problem you cant see your own self

that is not my problem, that is the problem of muslims who criticise others for spending money for alcohol.

critisicing muslims for some muslims saying that...

No, no. I am not generalising muslims. I am not saying: "all muslims criticise others for spending money for alcohol"

i said some or majority of muslims. I am not talking about 100% of muslims, I am talking some/majority of them. Majority means about 51% or above. Maybe saying majority was wrong, I should have said some.

good job showing us a pure hypocrite go help the poor instead wasting time here.
You have to say such to muslims who criticise people for spending money for alcohol.
For ex: go and criticise muslims for spending money for pilgrimige instead of people who spend for alcohol.

if somebody doing wrong you and me. peace.
I never deny I err, I may make mistakes, if somebody suggests me to waste my time for job or studying, if somebody warns me for wasting my money for such thing, I will thank him. I will NOT try to find his mistakes. Peace.

Thank you your advice and warnings.

hhh lol all i wrote for me and everybody....
Never fart near dog
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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10/6/2014 4:25:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Muslims, think about thinking for yourselves instead of being human cogs in an ancient dead man's ambition to rule the world by exploiting ignorant gullible believers. The pilgrimages are a copy of my people's religion and also the Hindu Vedics as well and as copies Muhammad's religion is totally spiritually invalid and shows it plainly to anyone with spiritual consciousness. You Muslims don't even know what I'm talking about as you mistake group mind belonging for spiritual consciousness because you all are afraid to stand alone by yourselves and must have a gang of fellow ignorant believers to shore up your rather insane and immoral belief in the absolute rule of the ghost of one desert caravan robbing thief and warlord.

Pilgrimages kill believers but believers don't care. They are high on group mind religious hysteria like hippies at Woodstock only at Woodstock not a single human being died but every year how many die for group mind belonging? And what has any of it to do with God? Take your pilgrimage money and go to college and learn real history of the world as opposed to religious lies and fables pawned off as such to ignorant people.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,728
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10/6/2014 4:35:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 4:51:34 PM, Artur wrote:
Some or majority of muslims love to criticise non-muslims, especially christians in this way: "if they spent the money they spent for alcohol for the poors, there would be less poors in the world"

now, it is your turn, if you give the money you are spending for pilgrimage to the poors, that will be so beneficial for the world.

Now, a person from the USA, if he makes a pilgrimage, I have no doubt that it will cost at least 3000 dollars, but does it have any benefit to the world? Yes, it has: you contribute to the economy of Saudi Arabia, touristic organisations and airlines.

But what if you did not do pilgrimage and spent that money for helping to the poors? I think that would be as effective as the money you accuse of being spent for *alcohol*

any ideas?

Response: A person can do both. They can contribute annually to help the poor and make a pilgrimage. So it is not necessary to avoid pilgrimage just to help the poor when both can be done.