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Christians loving their genocidal God is like

GreatestIam
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10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.

The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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10/5/2014 10:43:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
1- If God doesn't exist, then evil doesn't exist.
2- Evil exists.
C: Therefore, God exists.

Your hatred of what you perceive to be a fictional deity and your attempt to disqualify that fictional being by asserting your own morals is amusing. I mean seriously? Talk about absurdity: placing your personal judgment on what is to you, a fictional being, If you assume that there actually is a deity, then your personal judgment on is even more absurd.
Seriously, Atheists can't have moral superiority and they have absolutely no moral authority.

Let me ask you a question: Does God have attributes like, I don't know, omniscience? Wisdom? Justice?

{22} He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
{23} He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.
{24} He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

(Quran 59:22-24)

So... Are you omniscient n' all-wise n' all-just?

So anyways, here is the reply in the Quran for objection against the concept of hell:

{35} Then will We treat the Muslims like the criminals?
{36} What is [the matter] with you? How do you judge?

(Quran 68:35-36)

Or should we treat those who believe and do righteous deeds like corrupters in the land? Or should We treat those who fear Allah like the wicked? (Quran 38:28)

{21} Or do those who commit evils think We will make them like those who have believed and done righteous deeds " [make them] equal in their life and their death? Evil is that which they judge.
{22} And Allah created the heavens and earth in truth and so that every soul may be recompensed for what it has earned, and they will not be wronged.

(Quran 45:21-22)

Not equal are the companions of the Fire and the companions of Paradise. The companions of Paradise - they are the attainers [of success]. (Quran 59:20)

Though I agree that the concept of original sin is non-sensical.
Any other objections?
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/6/2014 5:49:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 10:43:20 PM, Dragonfang wrote:

I love talking to some old book.

Are all the Gods fiction except for yours?

Regards
DL
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/6/2014 8:04:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL

My statement is about your OP you fool. Those who are confused are cursed by the world they view as being real.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/6/2014 8:43:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 8:04:49 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL

My statement is about your OP you fool. Those who are confused are cursed by the world they view as being real.

Repeating idiocy does not make idiocy less idiotic.
But keep doing it all you like.

Regards
DL
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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10/6/2014 9:42:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

Looks like some requires some theology lessons. The Christian G-d IS the Jewish G-d.

Your entire argument is ridiculous.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/6/2014 10:23:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 8:43:04 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:04:49 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL

My statement is about your OP you fool. Those who are confused are cursed by the world they view as being real.

Repeating idiocy does not make idiocy less idiotic.
But keep doing it all you like.

Regards
DL

You're the one who is confused concerning my testimonies from our invisible Creator. If you were truly a believer in "Gnosticism" ( testimonies directly from our Creator ), then you would believe in all the written testimonies that I have placed in this forum.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/6/2014 10:32:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

Trust you.....yeah, right. You are the Saviour who will deliver us from death and Hell.
You are going to prove to yourself and to everybody else that you are living and not dying and God is not there and there is no Hell, right? When are you going to truly put this to the test? Have you done it already? Are you still with us?
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/6/2014 11:41:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:42:24 AM, Emilrose wrote:


Looks like some requires some theology lessons. The Christian G-d IS the Jewish G-d.

Your entire argument is ridiculous.

Not really. They do not recognize the divinity of Jesus or the stupid Trinity concept.

https://www.youtube.com...

You have just learned something so I would say you need lessons more than I do.

I await your attempt to refute.

Show a Jewish prayer to Jesus if you have one.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/6/2014 11:44:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 10:23:59 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:43:04 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:04:49 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL

My statement is about your OP you fool. Those who are confused are cursed by the world they view as being real.

Repeating idiocy does not make idiocy less idiotic.
But keep doing it all you like.

Regards
DL

You're the one who is confused concerning my testimonies from our invisible Creator.

Wooo. Wooo.

I will see your invisible God and raise you 4 angels and a talking donkey.

Go away fool and take your talking animals with you.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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10/6/2014 11:48:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 10:32:30 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:


Trust you.....yeah, right. You are the Saviour who will deliver us from death and Hell.
You are going to prove to yourself and to everybody else that you are living and not dying and God is not there and there is no Hell, right? When are you going to truly put this to the test? Have you done it already? Are you still with us?

Your church must have damaged your thinking and scared the hell out of you as a child or you would not be trying that fear mongering with me.

Do as this Bishop says please.

https://www.youtube.com...

He also Wrote a sermon for those like you.

https://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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10/6/2014 2:07:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Greatest difference is that God gives life. Hitler doesn"t give life.

I don"t see any reason why God should give eternal life for all. Do you have some reason why God should give eternal life for all?

I would like to know also, do you accept abortion and euthanasia?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/6/2014 2:25:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 10:32:30 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

Trust you.....yeah, right. You are the Saviour who will deliver us from death and Hell.
There is no such thing.

Firstly, to "save" someone is different than subjecting them to extortion. If you create a peril (such as Hell), and use it as a threat to extract the behavior you desire, that's extortion, not salvation. Christian doctrine has God saving you from the Christian God. If I put a gun to your head and demand your wallet, I don't become your "savior" when you hand over your wallet, and I don't shoot you.
If God threatens you with Hell (a peril he created), and demands your belief, then doesn't send you to Hell when you believe as he demands, that's extortion, not salvation.

More importantly, there's no such place as "Hell", and God is equally non-existent. Both of these concepts are simply creations from fictional stories like Peter Pan and Neverland.

Everyone dies. Believing in a sky-fairy who will send you to paradise rather than torment won't save you from death.

You are going to prove to yourself and to everybody else that you are living and not dying and God is not there and there is no Hell, right? When are you going to truly put this to the test? Have you done it already? Are you still with us?

According to the Bible, anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. Were that true, many us have already taken the steps you suggest. We're the ones willing to be heard above the herd, in openly stating that the Emperor is naked. Do you know how terribly pathetic it is to observe adults who are still trying to hide from the boogie man in the closet? Belief in God, Satan and Hell is exactly the same thing - stories for which you have not the slightest hint of evidence, which you still believe because you lack the intellect to understand that stories devoid of evidence are "fiction".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/6/2014 3:16:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:42:24 AM, Emilrose wrote:
Looks like some requires some theology lessons. The Christian G-d IS the Jewish G-d.

Your entire argument is ridiculous.

Its supposed to be ridiculous, its another this is what they don"t believe, as though we are supposed care. Its like a pack of 13 yr old little girls getting their jollies off on seeing how many people they can tick off in a day. They have no real interest in anything but getting a rise from someone that doesn"t like what they are posting. They figure Christians are easy to irritate, and that is probably true.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/6/2014 5:02:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:25:48 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/6/2014 10:32:30 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

Trust you.....yeah, right. You are the Saviour who will deliver us from death and Hell.
There is no such thing.

Firstly, to "save" someone is different than subjecting them to extortion. If you create a peril (such as Hell), and use it as a threat to extract the behavior you desire, that's extortion, not salvation. Christian doctrine has God saving you from the Christian God. If I put a gun to your head and demand your wallet, I don't become your "savior" when you hand over your wallet, and I don't shoot you.
If God threatens you with Hell (a peril he created), and demands your belief, then doesn't send you to Hell when you believe as he demands, that's extortion, not salvation.

More importantly, there's no such place as "Hell", and God is equally non-existent. Both of these concepts are simply creations from fictional stories like Peter Pan and Neverland.

Everyone dies. Believing in a sky-fairy who will send you to paradise rather than torment won't save you from death.

You are going to prove to yourself and to everybody else that you are living and not dying and God is not there and there is no Hell, right? When are you going to truly put this to the test? Have you done it already? Are you still with us?

According to the Bible, anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. Were that true, many us have already taken the steps you suggest. We're the ones willing to be heard above the herd, in openly stating that the Emperor is naked. Do you know how terribly pathetic it is to observe adults who are still trying to hide from the boogie man in the closet? Belief in God, Satan and Hell is exactly the same thing - stories for which you have not the slightest hint of evidence, which you still believe because you lack the intellect to understand that stories devoid of evidence are "fiction".

Prove there is no God and there is no Hell. When are you going to prove it? The way you are acting, the only way you can get evidence is in your death. How do you know what you are going to get? You keep talking like you are bigger than God. Prove He is not there, and prove there is no Hell. Are you still with us?
Beastt
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10/6/2014 5:47:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 5:02:19 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:25:48 PM, Beastt wrote:

Firstly, to "save" someone is different than subjecting them to extortion. If you create a peril (such as Hell), and use it as a threat to extract the behavior you desire, that's extortion, not salvation. Christian doctrine has God saving you from the Christian God. If I put a gun to your head and demand your wallet, I don't become your "savior" when you hand over your wallet, and I don't shoot you.
If God threatens you with Hell (a peril he created), and demands your belief, then doesn't send you to Hell when you believe as he demands, that's extortion, not salvation.

More importantly, there's no such place as "Hell", and God is equally non-existent. Both of these concepts are simply creations from fictional stories like Peter Pan and Neverland.

Everyone dies. Believing in a sky-fairy who will send you to paradise rather than torment won't save you from death.

You are going to prove to yourself and to everybody else that you are living and not dying and God is not there and there is no Hell, right? When are you going to truly put this to the test? Have you done it already? Are you still with us?

According to the Bible, anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. Were that true, many us have already taken the steps you suggest. We're the ones willing to be heard above the herd, in openly stating that the Emperor is naked. Do you know how terribly pathetic it is to observe adults who are still trying to hide from the boogie man in the closet? Belief in God, Satan and Hell is exactly the same thing - stories for which you have not the slightest hint of evidence, which you still believe because you lack the intellect to understand that stories devoid of evidence are "fiction".

Prove there is no God and there is no Hell. When are you going to prove it?
When you say things like "prove there is no God", you're showing ignorance. If I claim there are green feathered cows living in the core of Venus, do you have to "prove" I'm wrong? Or, since I made the claim that they're there, isn't it up to me to offer evidence to support my claim?

Start with dropping the word "proof" from your vocabulary. Either that, or learn what it means. The word "proof" properly applies only to maths and alcohol. What you're asking for is conclusive evidence. And since there isn't any evidence for God or Hell, and since evidence is consistent with existence, while non-existence is consistent with a lack of evidence, the lack of evidence for Hell or God fulfills my responsibility.

So it's now up to you to provide evidence that God and Hell do exist.

And given the fact that all you have are the written claims of (mostly) anonymous men, selected by a group of (mostly) anonymous men from the 4th century, what you believe fully depends upon what the men in the 4th century decided to include in the Bible. If they had selected a writing which claimed you go to Alice's "Wonderland" when you die, that's what you would believe today.

The way you are acting, the only way you can get evidence is in your death.
Which should cause you great concern. How can you know what you claim to know, if everyone has to wait until they die to find out? And what makes Heaven or Hell any more (or less) likely than Wonderland, Neverland or Whoville? Remember - all you have are writings from men, most of whom remain anonymous to this day, which were selected by men of the 4th century, who were considered somewhat lacking in intellect by many of their peers.

How do you know what you are going to get?
In the same way - and to the same degree - that I don't believe I'll be going to Wonderland, Neverland or Whoville. ALL of the evidence (and I do mean "all" of it), points to life being sustained only at the physical level, and consciousness being one outcome of that physical life. When physical life stops, consciousness stops.

You keep talking like you are bigger than God. Prove He is not there, and prove there is no Hell. Are you still with us?
"Bigger than God"? Are you still at the stage where you stand on a chair and yell to your brother than you're "bigger" than he is? Please, let's shoot for an adult level of maturity. I'm simply behaving as though I have a brain, and can detect a fallacious claim when one is so absurd to be clearly false.

So... since my claim (that God/Hell do not exist), is fulfilled by a lack of credible evidence for them, your job is to offer credible evidence for their existence. So what can you offer?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
debateuser
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10/6/2014 6:56:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

The funny part is that Christianity claims that a person has free will. At one moment you scare them and at another you tell them what to do. How is that free will. It is more like slavery or extorsion money.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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Idealist
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10/6/2014 9:27:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 6:56:29 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

The funny part is that Christianity claims that a person has free will. At one moment you scare them and at another you tell them what to do. How is that free will. It is more like slavery or extorsion money.

You obviously don't understand the concept of free will very well. No one drops dead for choosing to perform even the most heinous acts. Why? Because it's their free will to choose what actions they wish to perform.
debateuser
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10/7/2014 3:21:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:27:41 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/6/2014 6:56:29 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

The funny part is that Christianity claims that a person has free will. At one moment you scare them and at another you tell them what to do. How is that free will. It is more like slavery or extorsion money.

You obviously don't understand the concept of free will very well. No one drops dead for choosing to perform even the most heinous acts. Why? Because it's their free will to choose what actions they wish to perform.

Really and what do u have to say about these verses which are against free will and is just slavery and extorsion

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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Beastt
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10/7/2014 3:38:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:27:41 PM, Idealist wrote:

You obviously don't understand the concept of free will very well. No one drops dead for choosing to perform even the most heinous acts. Why? Because it's their free will to choose what actions they wish to perform.

How is it that people can understand that going to prison for life, as a consequence of committing murder, means that you're not allowed to commit murder: yet, when confronted with the claim that certain behaviors lead to eternal torment, proclaim that it means that you are allowed to engage in this behaviors?

God doesn't stop these behaviors because he can't. No non-existent entity can restrict any entity which exists.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
GreatestIam
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10/7/2014 7:28:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:07:53 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 10/4/2014 8:01:20 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Greatest difference is that God gives life. Hitler doesn"t give life.

I don"t see any reason why God should give eternal life for all. Do you have some reason why God should give eternal life for all?

I would like to know also, do you accept abortion and euthanasia?

Any creator God who does not create for the best possible end for the soul is not a God worthy of his name. He would be seen as a loser who cannot do things right.

If you are to believe that God is your creator then you have to wonder why he would create abominations like what is shown here who die in the womb.

That should also answer your other question as I would follow your God's thinking as he kills or lets die or aborts life.

https://www.youtube.com...

You are supposed to do as your God does.

Are you a parent? Did you create for the best possible end for your child?

If not you are not much of a parent and if your God did not then he is not much of a creator. Even nature creates for the best possible end.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/7/2014 7:43:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 6:56:29 PM, debateuser wrote:


The funny part is that Christianity claims that a person has free will. At one moment you scare them and at another you tell them what to do. How is that free will. It is more like slavery or extorsion money.

You must be French mon ami.

Yes. Christians do not want to recognize that the first instance of free will that they always think of is with A & E.

They are so fixated/indoctrinated in the disobedience that they forget that the command was that they stay too stupid to even know they were naked. That would be like you and I forbidding our children from going to school.

Ridiculous. And then from that ridiculous position, they move forwards to then while the thinkers see them moving backwards.

You are correct of course that commands and threats and even rewards annuls free will.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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10/7/2014 7:50:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:27:41 PM, Idealist wrote:


You obviously don't understand the concept of free will very well. No one drops dead for choosing to perform even the most heinous acts. Why? Because it's their free will to choose what actions they wish to perform.

This is a lie.

If your free will choice, for instance, is to walk down the sidewalk safely, and I step in front of you with a knife right in front of your face, or the threat of hell in the case of your God, then I have definitely annulled your freedom to choose to walk safely away.

Would you step into the knife at your face?

I did not think so.

If you recognize your error in thinking then you will understand what follows.
If not then you might just skip it. It would be not be understandable to you.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind"s responsibility and not some imaginary God"s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

These links speak to theistic evolution.

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it"s nature and instincts.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
bornofgod
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10/7/2014 8:00:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 11:44:25 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/6/2014 10:23:59 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:43:04 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:04:49 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 5:44:51 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/5/2014 9:28:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Adam and Eve blamed each other, too, instead of God who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has confused his people ever since they woke up in a world full of good and evil appearing illusions.

You could have spoken to the issues in the O.P. instead of this that does not.

Regards
DL

My statement is about your OP you fool. Those who are confused are cursed by the world they view as being real.

Repeating idiocy does not make idiocy less idiotic.
But keep doing it all you like.

Regards
DL

You're the one who is confused concerning my testimonies from our invisible Creator.


Wooo. Wooo.

I will see your invisible God and raise you 4 angels and a talking donkey.

Go away fool and take your talking animals with you.

Regards
DL

An antichrist who sets himself above the rest of the antichrists like you have is a fool who has no knowledge of God to understand how foolish he is.
GreatestIam
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10/7/2014 8:07:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 8:00:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:

An antichrist who sets himself above the rest of the antichrists like you have is a fool who has no knowledge of God to understand how foolish he is.

A fool says in his heart there are talking animals and a God waiting to ponce on the sinner and send him to hell.

Your church hurt you mind as a child. This Christian Bishop can save you. But you have to do what you are not used to doing. Think.

https://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
bornofgod
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10/7/2014 10:10:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 8:07:52 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 10/7/2014 8:00:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:

An antichrist who sets himself above the rest of the antichrists like you have is a fool who has no knowledge of God to understand how foolish he is.

A fool says in his heart there are talking animals and a God waiting to ponce on the sinner and send him to hell.

Your church hurt you mind as a child. This Christian Bishop can save you. But you have to do what you are not used to doing. Think.

https://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

There is no hell and if God made you believe in talking animals, so be it. There isn't anything that God can't make His people believe in. That's how good of an illusionist He really is.

I'm not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, or any religious person. I am the voice of the Lord who knows all things.
Demetriuscapone
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10/7/2014 10:52:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The most interesting thing that I've never gotten any christian to answer me is this question:

has there ever been any king in european history that has truly had god on his side? I mean after all, most kings of Europe really believed that god spoke to them and commanded their conquest like god commanded Joshua. Has that ever happened? I mean, the churches of these individual countries said that as well. The catholic church believed Charlamagne was more or less god's avatar on earth.
jodybirdy
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10/7/2014 1:08:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 10:52:39 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
The most interesting thing that I've never gotten any christian to answer me is this question:

has there ever been any king in european history that has truly had god on his side? I mean after all, most kings of Europe really believed that god spoke to them and commanded their conquest like god commanded Joshua. Has that ever happened? I mean, the churches of these individual countries said that as well. The catholic church believed Charlamagne was more or less god's avatar on earth.

I cannot define my beliefs as strictly Christian because I do not agree with the direction this religion has taken. I grew up in a Christian home and went to private Christian schools where I got to memorize Bible verses everyday. I can argue the literal word of the Bible all day long from either stance. Fun stuff. I will answer this question for you. No, God does not speak exclusively to any political ruler or guide their sovereign decisions. That is here say by those rulers to gain approval and or control over a primarily Christian populous. It's politics and nothing more. Gotta love politicians.

Another thing that Christians who are not able to form their own opinions about history verses philosophy in the Bible will not acknowledge, is that there are many contradictions and quite a bit of genocide taking place in these writings. The old testament is historical and written from the perspective of a specific cultural environment that was lacking in scientific knowledge. It is by no means an adequate guide to live in today's world and I honestly believe that when most books in the Bible were written that they were not meant to be a guide or a Bible for any religion to base their moral beliefs in. I'm so sorry to say but the bible is not holy.

So, in saying that I will tell you this. Do not discount the possibility of there being some spiritual purpose to life because of radical Christian belief systems and the insanity that some Christians contribute to these forums. They are simply miss - interpreting something. The Bible is a collection of historical documents and writings and does not represent all of the history of the time. It was decided by men who deemed their own selves enlightened enough to decide what people need to believe in order to maintain control and peace. Politics again at play.

Just because the Bible is antiquated and misleading does not mean there is not a God. Mark it up to human error. Science neither proves nor disproves the existence of a spiritual world. And the Bible is a historical book designed to control. If you really read what Jesus fought against and take his interpretation of organized religion to heart then you would have to agree he would NOT be pleased with modern or postmodern Christianity.

No one on Earth can prove without a shadow of doubt that there is or is not life after death. And no ruler in history had a special relationship with God telling them what to do. If they did this world would probably be in a lot better shape today. Simple truth.

Seriously though. Believe in something greater than yourself whatever you choose to call it. It makes all the difference.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."