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everything happens for a reason?

steffon66
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10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/6/2014 2:41:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Great points!

I hate it when I hear people say, "everything happens for a reason". Sure, events are linked, but that's not what they mean. They're trying to say that everything happens because it's part of some master plan. Of course you never find these people keeping logs of significant events so that they can eventually link them to the supposed "greater good" in which they're supposed to result.

Uttering the phrase "everything happens for a reason" is simply a way of saying that you'd rather live in blissful ignorance than to hold any valid understanding of reality.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
1Credo
Posts: 45
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10/6/2014 3:14:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:41:56 PM, Beastt wrote:
Great points!

I hate it when I hear people say, "everything happens for a reason". Sure, events are linked, but that's not what they mean. They're trying to say that everything happens because it's part of some master plan. Of course you never find these people keeping logs of significant events so that they can eventually link them to the supposed "greater good" in which they're supposed to result.

Uttering the phrase "everything happens for a reason" is simply a way of saying that you'd rather live in blissful ignorance than to hold any valid understanding of reality.

I agree, I don't see any justification for believing that everything happens for a reason.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/6/2014 3:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.
I find it somewhat repetitive to use the term "deceptive preacher".

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.
I think that's the case whenever it's used. After all, can you show any credible statistics showing that devout theists are more inclined to lives encompassed by more instances of greater good than anyone else?

The majority of Christians I've met became Christians following a life of drugs, crime, and/or blatant irresponsibility. And becoming Christians has rarely changed that to any appreciable degree.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/6/2014 4:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 3:53:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.
I find it somewhat repetitive to use the term "deceptive preacher".

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.
I think that's the case whenever it's used. After all, can you show any credible statistics showing that devout theists are more inclined to lives encompassed by more instances of greater good than anyone else?

The majority of Christians I've met became Christians following a life of drugs, crime, and/or blatant irresponsibility. And becoming Christians has rarely changed that to any appreciable degree.

Well that"s true to an extent, we who have come to the Lord after the usual"s as you say, are not taught that there is more to coming to the Lord Jesus Christ then just the acknowledgment thereof. In respect to when one is saved, then there is a transformation that is to take place that many times isn"t cultivated. One must come to the point where he is maintained in his own relationship with the Lord his God. Kind of like Abraham, seeing it"s the same faith.

Simple, if one has his own well, he is not dependant on another for water to maintain his life. And many depend on others to be close to God for them. And then remain in their human nature, rather then grow into God"s nature.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?
steffon66
Posts: 240
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10/6/2014 4:53:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?

what the hell are you talking about dude? i never said i wanted to kill anyone or anything. your accusing me of having evil in my heart. quote me where i said i wanted to do something evil? its ok ill wait. your not going to find any passages where i said people should die or anything like that because they dont exist. your obviously psychotic and im not reading the rest of your post because the first part was clearly untrue.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/6/2014 4:56:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 4:53:26 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?

what the hell are you talking about dude? i never said i wanted to kill anyone or anything. your accusing me of having evil in my heart. quote me where i said i wanted to do something evil? its ok ill wait. your not going to find any passages where i said people should die or anything like that because they dont exist. your obviously psychotic and im not reading the rest of your post because the first part was clearly untrue.

You answered too fast, so I know you are not thinking right.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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10/6/2014 4:56:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:41:56 PM, Beastt wrote:
Great points!

I hate it when I hear people say, "everything happens for a reason". Sure, events are linked, but that's not what they mean. They're trying to say that everything happens because it's part of some master plan. Of course you never find these people keeping logs of significant events so that they can eventually link them to the supposed "greater good" in which they're supposed to result.

Uttering the phrase "everything happens for a reason" is simply a way of saying that you'd rather live in blissful ignorance than to hold any valid understanding of reality.

uttering the phrase "everything happens for a reason" is simply a way of saying that you'd rather live in blissful ignorance than to hold any valid understanding of reality? lol love it. i agree
steffon66
Posts: 240
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10/6/2014 5:02:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.

actually that is not the verse im talking about but im aware of this one and i have a problem with this too. to say that all things work towards the good of those who love god is to say that people who dont love god cant hurt them which is extremely fallacious. your saying that we cant do anything to hurt those who love god so this too means we do not have free will as we cant choose to do anything to a christian that doesnt help them.
Mhykiel
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10/6/2014 5:04:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.

I agree I do not think everything happens for a reason.. as in being part of better bigger plan is scriptural.

the very idea of sin is that people do things not inline with God's will. Sin would be something going not to plan. Which is why God's plan is to rejuvenate and restore mankind.

I don't think this includes every bad thing that happens. Because I draw a line between bad things and evil things. I digress tho, the phrase I find completely misrepresented and misused.

I've siad it before, it a preacher was being really honest that would say "Congrats your a christian now! now the world will hate you, more troubles will come. The devil and the World of Men are going to purposefully kill, steal, and maim you!"
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/6/2014 6:04:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 5:02:26 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.

actually that is not the verse im talking about but im aware of this one and i have a problem with this too. to say that all things work towards the good of those who love god is to say that people who dont love god cant hurt them which is extremely fallacious. your saying that we cant do anything to hurt those who love god so this too means we do not have free will as we cant choose to do anything to a christian that doesnt help them.

I don"t see how you read that into that verse but its not about whether you can hurt someone who loves God or not, its about if someone does love God then they are in a Grace were no matter what happens it is for the good. Jesus suffered the Cross and the rejection of His own people so on and so forth, and Paul suffered persecutions off and on through out his ministry until they haled him off to Rome and then put him to death. And he"s the one who made that statement.

I admit though, I didn"t address the, there is a plan or reason for all things part because I did see you using "To say everything happens for a good reason" which I do believe would include the verse quoted.

As far as plan for all things. Yea, but to the good of all things, no. for reasons previously posted. The best I can explain is if life is like a chess board God owns both sides of the board, but only one side is to win. That which belongs in darkness will end up in darkness that which belongs in the Light will end up in the Light. Or like a farmer that which bears the fruits that are desired are kept and cultivated. But that which bears no fruit that is desirable to the one who is doing the farming will be cast away to make room for more that do bear fruit.

As far as reason for all things, yea, what that reason is, could get complicated, but yea, and that is to reiterate not necessarily to the good of all things. Or at the least in the view of the thing or persons effected. As in in the fulfillment of purposes purposed by the person may not be to the good of the person nor the fulfillment desired. But to the fulfillment of God"s purposes for all things there maybe an argument for all thing may work to that good, as in what God sees as good. But I don"t think that is scriptural, other than knowing God"s Will be done.
DPMartin
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10/6/2014 6:21:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 5:04:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.

I agree I do not think everything happens for a reason.. as in being part of better bigger plan is scriptural.

the very idea of sin is that people do things not inline with God's will. Sin would be something going not to plan. Which is why God's plan is to rejuvenate and restore mankind.

I don't think this includes every bad thing that happens. Because I draw a line between bad things and evil things. I digress tho, the phrase I find completely misrepresented and misused.

I've siad it before, it a preacher was being really honest that would say "Congrats your a christian now! now the world will hate you, more troubles will come. The devil and the World of Men are going to purposefully kill, steal, and maim you!"

Well you might have miss understood, and that maybe my fault.

Maybe I should have addressed the reasons for things, rather then just, for the good of. But I do believe your point of sin is warranted though, I would say that the Lord God had a plan for that. As you"ve stated restoration/redemption which He mentions in Gen:3:15. Surly the Lord God would rather that A&E trusted Him then not trust Him and die to the life God gave them, which required that trust, or faith. But God inhabits eternity, therefore He can wait for the fulfillment He sees as good.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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10/6/2014 9:32:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 6:04:52 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/6/2014 5:02:26 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 3:31:16 PM, DPMartin wrote:
If you are referring to the Christian view then it comes from:

Rom:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


But many deceptive preachers and teachers leave out the part: to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. It would seem because they might offend those in their congregations that aren"t really included in this statement. So if you don"t love God, and are not called according to his purpose, then the scripture writer doesn"t expect you, or teach you to expect to have all thing that happen in your life in the flesh work to the good.

But in the western culture it may have been used, and over used to encourage the discouraged, when things aren"t well.

actually that is not the verse im talking about but im aware of this one and i have a problem with this too. to say that all things work towards the good of those who love god is to say that people who dont love god cant hurt them which is extremely fallacious. your saying that we cant do anything to hurt those who love god so this too means we do not have free will as we cant choose to do anything to a christian that doesnt help them.

I don"t see how you read that into that verse but its not about whether you can hurt someone who loves God or not, its about if someone does love God then they are in a Grace were no matter what happens it is for the good. Jesus suffered the Cross and the rejection of His own people so on and so forth, and Paul suffered persecutions off and on through out his ministry until they haled him off to Rome and then put him to death. And he"s the one who made that statement.

I admit though, I didn"t address the, there is a plan or reason for all things part because I did see you using "To say everything happens for a good reason" which I do believe would include the verse quoted.

As far as plan for all things. Yea, but to the good of all things, no. for reasons previously posted. The best I can explain is if life is like a chess board God owns both sides of the board, but only one side is to win. That which belongs in darkness will end up in darkness that which belongs in the Light will end up in the Light. Or like a farmer that which bears the fruits that are desired are kept and cultivated. But that which bears no fruit that is desirable to the one who is doing the farming will be cast away to make room for more that do bear fruit.

As far as reason for all things, yea, what that reason is, could get complicated, but yea, and that is to reiterate not necessarily to the good of all things. Or at the least in the view of the thing or persons effected. As in in the fulfillment of purposes purposed by the person may not be to the good of the person nor the fulfillment desired. But to the fulfillment of God"s purposes for all things there maybe an argument for all thing may work to that good, as in what God sees as good. But I don"t think that is scriptural, other than knowing God"s Will be done.

I don"t see how you read that into that verse but its not about whether you can hurt someone who loves God or not, its about if someone does love God then they are in a Grace were no matter what happens it is for the good.

it says ALL THINGS work towards the GOOD of those who loved god. this means that i cant do anything that would be bad for them. if i torture one of them this somehow works towards their benefit. now how is it that if i do something to a nonbeliever im hurting them and doing something thats bad for them but if i do the same thing to a christian its good for them. this belief is in no way shape or form founded in logic. its as dumb as the verse that says everything happens for a reason which i am going to go find for you right after this.

lol lmfao you just explained life as god playing a chess game against himself. i assume you are talking about the force of evil and the force of goodness.??? lol so god is hurting people through the forces of evil for the goodness of believers and for a punishment to non believers. so the devil sits at the chess board watching god make all the moves for him or is the devil a puppet and god pulls the strings? he must be really board. just as you laugh at your ancestors beleifs your descendants will laugh at your beliefs if they are still alive. we do have modern technology capable of bringing on the next apocalypse and ancient mind sets we draw from our ancient literature.

and your analogy "the plant that isnt producing fruit will be casted out to make room for the plants that do produce fruit. well non believers and evil people live just as long as "good" christians. death does not discriminate so i have no idea what the f your talking about. and after reading that i can see your not worth my time. either make sense of what you said or dont reply.
steffon66
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10/6/2014 9:35:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?

in not even going to reply to that because anyone can see that your crazy. your claiming that we can conicidentally happen to do every single thing that god wants us to do with our free will. anyone here can see that your an idiot and i never said i wanted to kill anyone or anything like that so your insane. i think you are psychotic and you still wont quote me on that.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/6/2014 9:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:35:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?

in not even going to reply to that because anyone can see that your crazy. your claiming that we can conicidentally happen to do every single thing that god wants us to do with our free will. anyone here can see that your an idiot and i never said i wanted to kill anyone or anything like that so your insane. i think you are psychotic and you still wont quote me on that.

You can obey God or disobey God. You cannot obey Him perfectly because you are imperfect. You are a sinner, you are corrupt, the same as me. You sound like you want to kill me. You said you want to do horrible things to people who say one little phrase that you don't like, and I'm the psychotic one here? You are living a life in rebellion against God. That's your choice. Naturally your reasons will always be contrary to His reasons. You can't go to heaven that way. Sorry.
steffon66
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10/6/2014 10:02:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:45:41 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 9:35:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:49:14 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

You want to do horrible things to people who did you no harm and only said something you do not like? Is there evil in your heart? Why are you having evil thoughts? God says "thou shalt not kill", but in your heart you want to do horrible things which are murderous in attitude when you don't like what somebody says? You can do what God wants you to do by forgiving the person who annoys you, then what you want and what God wants are the same.

You said...."things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous." You are thinking this way because you are looking at things from a self-centered view rather than seeking to do what God wants you to do and act in accordance to His desires. Your whole being is acting independant of God, so of course you say it is not possible for your reasons to coincide with God's reasons. God wants you to come into agreement with Him, admit you have sinned agaisnt Him and are a sinner, believe He loves you and took your death to pay for your sins as God the Son, Jesus Christ who rose from the grave and offers forgiveness to all who believe on Him and Call on God in His name to save them from Hell.

The reason everything happens is because God created all things and gave creatures like you free will with a mind and powers of reason like His. If you want to act indendantily of His desires, you are free to do so.... but the things that happen to you are less than you deserve if they are bad, and more than you deserve if they are good.
We all deserve to burn in Hell, we all deserve to die. Are you going to agree with God or insist it is not possible for your reasons and God's reasons to be simultaneous?

in not even going to reply to that because anyone can see that your crazy. your claiming that we can conicidentally happen to do every single thing that god wants us to do with our free will. anyone here can see that your an idiot and i never said i wanted to kill anyone or anything like that so your insane. i think you are psychotic and you still wont quote me on that.

You can obey God or disobey God. You cannot obey Him perfectly because you are imperfect. You are a sinner, you are corrupt, the same as me. You sound like you want to kill me. You said you want to do horrible things to people who say one little phrase that you don't like, and I'm the psychotic one here? You are living a life in rebellion against God. That's your choice. Naturally your reasons will always be contrary to His reasons. You can't go to heaven that way. Sorry.

ok! finally you have quoted me. i didnt remember saying that and i thought you were crazy. i dont really want to do horrible things to people i was proving a point that went over your head because your dumb. and its funny to hear you talk about who goes to heaven or anyone. do you not know that there are over a thousand different stories that all have different ways to get to heaven? i could argue that according to the amish it is your deeds that will get you to heaven in which case im good. i could argue that the ancient egyptians are right and god will ask two questions. have you found joy in your life and has your life brought joy to others? in which case i would be good. i dont disobey god. god has never spoken to me. any rational person can see the the bible is the teachings of men. just like you laugh at your ancestors beliefs your decendants will laugh at yours. eventually all gods die and go to the gigantic cemetery we call mythology. i havent disobeyed god i have disobeyed religion. i dont own slaves, i f whenever i want because it isnt hurting anybody, if i was gay id f a man because there is nothing wrong with it and if god didnt want me to he wouldnt have made me gay, i eat all kinds of meat, i dont beat my wife for disobeying me, i dont believe my wife should be my servant while im gods servant. i could go on all day but what it will come down to is f you and f your b a god. your god is against peace and against freedom. f you and f your god. but have a nice day. lol f er
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/7/2014 1:58:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:45:41 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:

You can obey God or disobey God.
This is not true. If I handed you a copy of the Sunday New York Times and proclaimed that it was a message from God, would that make it a message from God?
What if I clipped specific articles from that, or any other newspaper, and proclaimed them to be a message from God? Would it then be a message from God? Are are they just writings of men?

Let's go a step farther. What if I gathered together a few hundred people with diverse ideas about God, asked them to write their ideas as though they were speaking for God, and then I selected the ones I personally liked best. Would I then have a message from God?

You see... this is all you have. You have a subjectively gathered collection of the writings of many men. And if we look at those writings, we find that they contradict each other. They make statements which are patently and demonstrably untrue. They tell stories about the same events which differ dramatically. But because a council of men in the 4th century picked these writings from a much larger collection, and proclaimed they were "God's word", you have adopted their claim as though it were a verified claim.

You cannot obey Him perfectly because you are imperfect.
Which amounts to the claim that God created us, and then placed standards on us which are beyond the ability of what he created.

You are a sinner, you are corrupt, the same as me.
I'm not the same as you. I used to be. But I learned to actually think about things I was expected to believe.

You are living a life in rebellion against God.
This is not possible. To rebel against God, God would need to tell us what he expects. He's never done that. He's never even revealed his existence.

You can't go to heaven that way. Sorry.
Try to understand that this is simply a story you have been told to believe. And in your desire to please those who told you this, you have adopted it without assessment. And now you expect others to make the same silly mistake you made, simply because you made it.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
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10/7/2014 9:48:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 9:32:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:

it says ALL THINGS work towards the GOOD of those who loved god. this means that i cant do anything that would be bad for them. if i torture one of them this somehow works towards their benefit. now how is it that if i do something to a nonbeliever im hurting them and doing something thats bad for them but if i do the same thing to a christian its good for them. this belief is in no way shape or form founded in logic. its as dumb as the verse that says everything happens for a reason which i am going to go find for you right after this.

lol lmfao you just explained life as god playing a chess game against himself. i assume you are talking about the force of evil and the force of goodness.??? lol so god is hurting people through the forces of evil for the goodness of believers and for a punishment to non believers. so the devil sits at the chess board watching god make all the moves for him or is the devil a puppet and god pulls the strings? he must be really board. just as you laugh at your ancestors beleifs your descendants will laugh at your beliefs if they are still alive. we do have modern technology capable of bringing on the next apocalypse and ancient mind sets we draw from our ancient literature.

and your analogy "the plant that isnt producing fruit will be casted out to make room for the plants that do produce fruit. well non believers and evil people live just as long as "good" christians. death does not discriminate so i have no idea what the f your talking about. and after reading that i can see your not worth my time. either make sense of what you said or dont reply.

Again another example of a belligerent mental case that calls itself an atheist on this site, or at the least acts like one. An idiot that refuses to have an civil conversation, because it has issues and it wants to share its misery with everyone else it can. Well adjusted people don"t dump on others for the fun of it.

And yes if it says all things then it means all thing including your ability to hurt. The Kingdom of Heaven doesn"t value this life like you might. It values the life of the soul not the body, hence someone might take the life of the body by killing but the life of the soul no man can take. So for those who love God, doesn"t matter what you want to do.

Animals live in the moment, at least most experts observe that they do, hence the life of the flesh in the flesh, but those who love God see life as being lived in eternity, and value the well being of the soul.
steffon66
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10/7/2014 11:57:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 9:48:05 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/6/2014 9:32:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:

it says ALL THINGS work towards the GOOD of those who loved god. this means that i cant do anything that would be bad for them. if i torture one of them this somehow works towards their benefit. now how is it that if i do something to a nonbeliever im hurting them and doing something thats bad for them but if i do the same thing to a christian its good for them. this belief is in no way shape or form founded in logic. its as dumb as the verse that says everything happens for a reason which i am going to go find for you right after this.

lol lmfao you just explained life as god playing a chess game against himself. i assume you are talking about the force of evil and the force of goodness.??? lol so god is hurting people through the forces of evil for the goodness of believers and for a punishment to non believers. so the devil sits at the chess board watching god make all the moves for him or is the devil a puppet and god pulls the strings? he must be really board. just as you laugh at your ancestors beleifs your descendants will laugh at your beliefs if they are still alive. we do have modern technology capable of bringing on the next apocalypse and ancient mind sets we draw from our ancient literature.

and your analogy "the plant that isnt producing fruit will be casted out to make room for the plants that do produce fruit. well non believers and evil people live just as long as "good" christians. death does not discriminate so i have no idea what the f your talking about. and after reading that i can see your not worth my time. either make sense of what you said or dont reply.

Again another example of a belligerent mental case that calls itself an atheist on this site, or at the least acts like one. An idiot that refuses to have an civil conversation, because it has issues and it wants to share its misery with everyone else it can. Well adjusted people don"t dump on others for the fun of it.

And yes if it says all things then it means all thing including your ability to hurt. The Kingdom of Heaven doesn"t value this life like you might. It values the life of the soul not the body, hence someone might take the life of the body by killing but the life of the soul no man can take. So for those who love God, doesn"t matter what you want to do.

Animals live in the moment, at least most experts observe that they do, hence the life of the flesh in the flesh, but those who love God see life as being lived in eternity, and value the well being of the soul.

lol a nut case? refusing to have a civil discussion? no... that isnt accurate at all as i am trying to have a civil conversation right now and your the one making it difficult. quote what i said that gave you those assumptions. im the one who was about to stop talking to you because your a basket case. i heard something stupid and then more stupidity came and i didnt even want to read anymore and felt that no good would come of arguing with you. also im not an atheist. im an agnostic who highly doubts there is a god as all the evidence people use for god to me is evidence of randomness as is everything else in our reality. ill admit life is pretty amazing and thats the only thing that makes it seem like there is a god but the nature of life is horrible. too many things happen that shouldnt be allowed to happen by an authority member or much less one that is a god who is all powerful. i cant believe in a god who works miracles for fat americans while my people starve. lol jk im an american too. but you see my point.? well actually you probably dont. i dont believe god would allow tyrants to rule or take over other countries and stuff and he didnt in the biblical stories but our reality is much different than they are. the bible shows a god that interferes in our lives and even kills for things like pulling out. but he wont save a little girl from being raped by a man? god allowing us to do whatever we want is equivalent to letting your kids do whatever they want

and what did you mean i act like an atheist? how does an atheist act? and it may not matter what i do to them but to say it works toward the good of them? thats ridiculous. and actually only a person without empathy who has been warped by religion would think it doesnt matter. thats the problem. your like slaves who think their masters are well within their rights even though they hate their lives. you think our reality doesnt matter at all because if you believed things did matter you wouldnt be able to believe in a perfect god. but any rational person who thinks thinngs do matter can see that life isnt for our benefit. there is nothing we can take with us that we work our lives away for and we dont learn virtually anything here as this is less than a second in eternity and this time well get smaller and smaller and we will eventually know trillions of times more than we know now so this knowledge will be .000000000000000 however many os 1 percent of what we know. not much of a purpose. will all the bad that happens id say the only possible purpose for life is punishment and that doesnt fit because a lot of people are happy. the evidence suggests randomness. it is not irrational to be an atheist or an agnostic. i dont even think its that illogical to be a theist but i do think religion is completely irrational. look in history at others religions. they laughed at the people before them you laugh at them and someday someone is going to laugh at your beliefs. things like everything happens for a reason and shite. you had no rebuttal for my post. no good one anyways. if youd call that a rebuttal id laugh at you now. and i value the quality of life not the life itself and im sure a perfect god or "heaven" as you put it would put importance on preventing pain suffering and misery as this would be his responsibility after creating us. not to mention he wouldnt have set up our nerves and brains and gave men the knowledge and ability of good and evil. that is an act of cruelty.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.
12_13
Posts: 1,362
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10/7/2014 2:03:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan.

I think everything happens because a reason. For example rain falls because the conditions in the atmosphere became suitable for it, and that happened because" There is reason for that, but reason does not necessary mean that it was planned.
steffon66
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10/7/2014 2:21:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.

god is the only thing thats real? dont think so. i think therefore i am. i think and percieve so somewhere even if this is all a dream i have a real brain or something that is like a brain. actually im not even going to argue with you. all you did is tell me how it is without providing any evidence or supporting arguments. do you really expect me to believe you? what scripture supports that? where do you draw that conclusion from? bet i dont get answers for those questions.
steffon66
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10/7/2014 2:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 2:03:51 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan.

I think everything happens because a reason. For example rain falls because the conditions in the atmosphere became suitable for it, and that happened because" There is reason for that, but reason does not necessary mean that it was planned.

you just provided me with your opinion without any supporting argument. if everything happens for gods reasons then it all most certainly is planned. otherwise some things would happen for our reasons. if what we do happens for gods reasons then it happens because he planned for it to happen and not because we chose for it to happen with our free will. if we have free will things happen for OUR reasons.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/7/2014 5:25:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 2:21:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.

god is the only thing thats real? dont think so. i think therefore i am. i think and percieve so somewhere even if this is all a dream i have a real brain or something that is like a brain. actually im not even going to argue with you. all you did is tell me how it is without providing any evidence or supporting arguments. do you really expect me to believe you? what scripture supports that? where do you draw that conclusion from? bet i dont get answers for those questions.

Unbelievers ( religious people and atheists ) need evidence to prove that God exists. We saints of God get all our information directly from our invisible Creator and learn that we all exist within His invisible mind ( His thoughts ) as a dream.

The scriptures are only symbolic writings that no man can understand. That's why God used us saints to read the prophecies so that God could interpret them for us.
steffon66
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10/7/2014 5:31:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 5:25:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/7/2014 2:21:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.

god is the only thing thats real? dont think so. i think therefore i am. i think and percieve so somewhere even if this is all a dream i have a real brain or something that is like a brain. actually im not even going to argue with you. all you did is tell me how it is without providing any evidence or supporting arguments. do you really expect me to believe you? what scripture supports that? where do you draw that conclusion from? bet i dont get answers for those questions.

Unbelievers ( religious people and atheists ) need evidence to prove that God exists. We saints of God get all our information directly from our invisible Creator and learn that we all exist within His invisible mind ( His thoughts ) as a dream.

The scriptures are only symbolic writings that no man can understand. That's why God used us saints to read the prophecies so that God could interpret them for us.

i think its time for you to shut up and drink the koolaid. your insane! you have no scriptural support for your theory. you have no logical evidence for your theory. you have nothing to support your claims. this is debate.org not post your opinions with no supporting arguments.org. just shut up or provide a supporting argument for your claims
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/7/2014 5:36:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 5:31:19 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 5:25:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/7/2014 2:21:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.

god is the only thing thats real? dont think so. i think therefore i am. i think and percieve so somewhere even if this is all a dream i have a real brain or something that is like a brain. actually im not even going to argue with you. all you did is tell me how it is without providing any evidence or supporting arguments. do you really expect me to believe you? what scripture supports that? where do you draw that conclusion from? bet i dont get answers for those questions.

Unbelievers ( religious people and atheists ) need evidence to prove that God exists. We saints of God get all our information directly from our invisible Creator and learn that we all exist within His invisible mind ( His thoughts ) as a dream.

The scriptures are only symbolic writings that no man can understand. That's why God used us saints to read the prophecies so that God could interpret them for us.

i think its time for you to shut up and drink the koolaid. your insane! you have no scriptural support for your theory. you have no logical evidence for your theory. you have nothing to support your claims. this is debate.org not post your opinions with no supporting arguments.org. just shut up or provide a supporting argument for your claims

Yes. He is insane. That's why most of us no longer waste our time engaging with him. He claims he is a saint and seems to think he's the only one - or one of a very view - "moles" God has planted on Earth to guide the rest of us. It's really no different than what the Bible claims about "prophets" - a few who God would speak through to guide the rest. I'm sure I don't have to explain what an idiotic God that portrays. But bornofgod is most certainly not mentally stable, and debating with him only provides him with an outlet for his religious ramblings. If he had the slightest charm, he might well become the next Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite. So most of us tend to ignore him. He needs therapy, rather than debate.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/7/2014 5:49:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 11:57:37 AM, steffon66 wrote:

lol a nut case? refusing to have a civil discussion? no... that isnt accurate at all as i am trying to have a civil conversation right now and your the one making it difficult. quote what i said that gave you those assumptions. im the one who was about to stop talking to you because your a basket case. i heard something stupid and then more stupidity came and i didnt even want to read anymore and felt that no good would come of arguing with you. also im not an atheist. im an agnostic who highly doubts there is a god as all the evidence people use for god to me is evidence of randomness as is everything else in our reality. ill admit life is pretty amazing and thats the only thing that makes it seem like there is a god but the nature of life is horrible. too many things happen that shouldnt be allowed to happen by an authority member or much less one that is a god who is all powerful. i cant believe in a god who works miracles for fat americans while my people starve. lol jk im an american too. but you see my point.? well actually you probably dont. i dont believe god would allow tyrants to rule or take over other countries and stuff and he didnt in the biblical stories but our reality is much different than they are. the bible shows a god that interferes in our lives and even kills for things like pulling out. but he wont save a little girl from being raped by a man? god allowing us to do whatever we want is equivalent to letting your kids do whatever they want

and what did you mean i act like an atheist? how does an atheist act? and it may not matter what i do to them but to say it works toward the good of them? thats ridiculous. and actually only a person without empathy who has been warped by religion would think it doesnt matter. thats the problem. your like slaves who think their masters are well within their rights even though they hate their lives. you think our reality doesnt matter at all because if you believed things did matter you wouldnt be able to believe in a perfect god. but any rational person who thinks thinngs do matter can see that life isnt for our benefit. there is nothing we can take with us that we work our lives away for and we dont learn virtually anything here as this is less than a second in eternity and this time well get smaller and smaller and we will eventually know trillions of times more than we know now so this knowledge will be .000000000000000 however many os 1 percent of what we know. not much of a purpose. will all the bad that happens id say the only possible purpose for life is punishment and that doesnt fit because a lot of people are happy. the evidence suggests randomness. it is not irrational to be an atheist or an agnostic. i dont even think its that illogical to be a theist but i do think religion is completely irrational. look in history at others religions. they laughed at the people before them you laugh at them and someday someone is going to laugh at your beliefs. things like everything happens for a reason and shite. you had no rebuttal for my post. no good one anyways. if youd call that a rebuttal id laugh at you now. and i value the quality of life not the life itself and im sure a perfect god or "heaven" as you put it would put importance on preventing pain suffering and misery as this would be his responsibility after creating us. not to mention he wouldnt have set up our nerves and brains and gave men the knowledge and ability of good and evil. that is an act of cruelty.

Yea right we can easly see your effert to have a civil discussion. We can almost believe you.

This is my point, just look at this posting, for one, it seems you believe you deserve something here, that you most certainly don"t give. And no one here is reacquired to meet your satisfaction in any way shape or form, as if you"re entitled something. You must be a child, you actually think I or the world for that matter should care about what you think. Only children think like that.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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10/7/2014 5:55:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/7/2014 5:36:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/7/2014 5:31:19 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 5:25:27 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/7/2014 2:21:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 10/7/2014 12:45:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/6/2014 2:16:30 PM, steffon66 wrote:
If everything happens for a reason then everything happens according to a plan. if everything happens according to A plan then we do what we do because god planned for us to do it and not because we decided to do it so we don"t have free will. things cant happen for our reasons and gods reasons simultaneously and coincidentally. That"s ridiculous. If everything happens for a reason then I can do whatever I want and its ok because its happening for a reason. To say everything happens for a good reason is to say that evil doesn"t exist because its only evil to hurt someone if its gratuitous and not for a good reason. If its not uncalled for and its happening for a good reason then it isn"t evil. If its happening for a good reason then it is goodness and not evil. So why do the people who believe this throw people in jail for doing something bad if they believe they did what they did for just as good of reasons as they do "good" things? If we have free will things happen for our reasons and not for gods reasons unless we just coincidentally happen to do exactly what god wants and that"s ridiculous. when people say this i want to do horrible things to them and say its ok dude everything happens for a reason right? why do people who believe this get mad about anything if everything happens for a good reason?

God is the Programmer of everything that has ever happened in this world that His people believed was real during this first age. Since we're only living in a dream that God planned and designed, we have no choice but to accept what is given to us during the first part of His dream. In fact, we'll never have a choice what to observe in our eternal existence within His thoughts ( His mind ).

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( Lucifer, Satan, Devil, The Word, Flesh of man, etc. ) was planned to confused His people at the same time He was using His prophets and saints to let us know that this is only a dream. Now that we know this is all a dream that will go away very soon before we go on to the next visions and dreams ( New Heaven and Earth ), we'll never be deceived by God's illusions again. We will be under a new covenant that will teach us that we are only created characters in His dream and that what we observe is not real. This will give us a very peaceful life knowing that God is the only thing that's real.

god is the only thing thats real? dont think so. i think therefore i am. i think and percieve so somewhere even if this is all a dream i have a real brain or something that is like a brain. actually im not even going to argue with you. all you did is tell me how it is without providing any evidence or supporting arguments. do you really expect me to believe you? what scripture supports that? where do you draw that conclusion from? bet i dont get answers for those questions.

Unbelievers ( religious people and atheists ) need evidence to prove that God exists. We saints of God get all our information directly from our invisible Creator and learn that we all exist within His invisible mind ( His thoughts ) as a dream.

The scriptures are only symbolic writings that no man can understand. That's why God used us saints to read the prophecies so that God could interpret them for us.

i think its time for you to shut up and drink the koolaid. your insane! you have no scriptural support for your theory. you have no logical evidence for your theory. you have nothing to support your claims. this is debate.org not post your opinions with no supporting arguments.org. just shut up or provide a supporting argument for your claims

Yes. He is insane. That's why most of us no longer waste our time engaging with him. He claims he is a saint and seems to think he's the only one - or one of a very view - "moles" God has planted on Earth to guide the rest of us. It's really no different than what the Bible claims about "prophets" - a few who God would speak through to guide the rest. I'm sure I don't have to explain what an idiotic God that portrays. But bornofgod is most certainly not mentally stable, and debating with him only provides him with an outlet for his religious ramblings. If he had the slightest charm, he might well become the next Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite. So most of us tend to ignore him. He needs therapy, rather than debate.

yea hes nuts. dont think im going to say anything else to him if he responds. he isnt the first person ive met on here that had that belief. that he is one of very few saints in the world that were put here to guide people and lead them to god. why does everybody think they are smart? why dont dumb or crazy people know they are dumb or crazy? its a disaster waiting to happen. it happens over and over again throughout history actually. i cant believe that god made them this way. what do you think?