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A Message for the more Militant Atheists

LogicalLunatic
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10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You often blame religion for war.

I'll tell you the truth: religion by itself has never started a war. Here's what has started wars:
Diversity. I have already made perhaps two threads on this, but I think that you need to read this.
Think about it: how often have religious people actively persecuted people who believe the exact same thing and are of the exact same ethnicity, and the person in question has not done anything that contradicts that religion's teachings?
People with different beliefs, different characteristics and personality traits, and people with different ways of life will inevitably clash whenever it's members are active, also called "militant".
Atheism, when active and not passive (that is, its adherents are determined to wipe out religion and "liberate" people's minds from its "brainwashing"), has the exact same capacity for crimes against humanity.
I'd everyone was an atheist there'd be no religious wars. This is true. However, if everyone were of the exact same Christian or Muslim denomination there would be no religious wars in these instances either.
That is, if EVERYONE believed the exact same thing, there would be no religious and/or ideological conflict.

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.
You say that there is no evidence for God. But, there's always the possibility, however slight, that a God exists. What if by imposing your lack of belief on entire generations of humanity you are condemning countless people to Hell? You may create a utopia in the process, but wouldn't it just be better to raise generations of people who might or might not be religious and don't kill each other either way?
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.
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Double_R
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10/8/2014 7:20:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.

Wow, you actually put the "atheist logic" thread in your signature? lol that was the dumbest thread ever. You should be trying to get DDO to wipe it out to spare yourself the embarrassment.
LogicalLunatic
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10/8/2014 7:33:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:20:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.

Wow, you actually put the "atheist logic" thread in your signature? lol that was the dumbest thread ever. You should be trying to get DDO to wipe it out to spare yourself the embarrassment.

I made that in part because I'm frustrated by anti-theists and also because I wanted to be funny. I am aware that it's not quite that simple.
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jh1234lnew
Posts: 225
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10/8/2014 7:38:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
You often blame religion for war.

Religion is the root of all evil: religious people support lynch mobs, slavery, killing innocent babies because their parent belongs to a country whose Pharaoh enslaved Israeli people.

Also, guess what? Religious people burn atheists at stakes.

I'll tell you the truth: religion by itself has never started a war. Here's what has started wars:

Religion has directly caused war, such as the crusades. Religious terrorism also caused the Afghanistan war. Therefore all religion is wrong.

Diversity. I have already made perhaps two threads on this, but I think that you need to read this.

This shows that religious people are racists who want to burn good atheists and good ethnic minorities at stakes and turn them into steak and eat them. Religious people also use blood to spice up Maztah balls. They also burn atheists at stakes.

Think about it: how often have religious people actively persecuted people who believe the exact same thing and are of the exact same ethnicity, and the person in question has not done anything that contradicts that religion's teachings?

You are just saying that the victims of religious terrorism deserved it because they were of a different ethnicity than the terrorists.

People with different beliefs, different characteristics and personality traits, and people with different ways of life will inevitably clash whenever it's members are active, also called "militant".
Atheism, when active and not passive (that is, its adherents are determined to wipe out religion and "liberate" people's minds from its "brainwashing"), has the exact same capacity for crimes against humanity.
I'd everyone was an atheist there'd be no religious wars. This is true. However, if everyone were of the exact same Christian or Muslim denomination there would be no religious wars in these instances either.
That is, if EVERYONE believed the exact same thing, there would be no religious and/or ideological conflict.

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.
You say that there is no evidence for God. But, there's always the possibility, however slight, that a God exists. What if by imposing your lack of belief on entire generations of humanity you are condemning countless people to Hell? You may create a utopia in the process, but wouldn't it just be better to raise generations of people who might or might not be religious and don't kill each other either way?
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.

We should all believe in atheism because religious people burn good atheists who support homosexual liberal family values at stakes and turn them into steaks and eat them with blood soaked maztah balls.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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10/8/2014 7:43:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:38:16 PM, jh1234lnew wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
You often blame religion for war.

Religion is the root of all evil: religious people support lynch mobs, slavery, killing innocent babies because their parent belongs to a country whose Pharaoh enslaved Israeli people.

Also, guess what? Religious people burn atheists at stakes.

I'll tell you the truth: religion by itself has never started a war. Here's what has started wars:

Religion has directly caused war, such as the crusades. Religious terrorism also caused the Afghanistan war. Therefore all religion is wrong.

Diversity. I have already made perhaps two threads on this, but I think that you need to read this.

This shows that religious people are racists who want to burn good atheists and good ethnic minorities at stakes and turn them into steak and eat them. Religious people also use blood to spice up Maztah balls. They also burn atheists at stakes.

Think about it: how often have religious people actively persecuted people who believe the exact same thing and are of the exact same ethnicity, and the person in question has not done anything that contradicts that religion's teachings?

You are just saying that the victims of religious terrorism deserved it because they were of a different ethnicity than the terrorists.

People with different beliefs, different characteristics and personality traits, and people with different ways of life will inevitably clash whenever it's members are active, also called "militant".
Atheism, when active and not passive (that is, its adherents are determined to wipe out religion and "liberate" people's minds from its "brainwashing"), has the exact same capacity for crimes against humanity.
I'd everyone was an atheist there'd be no religious wars. This is true. However, if everyone were of the exact same Christian or Muslim denomination there would be no religious wars in these instances either.
That is, if EVERYONE believed the exact same thing, there would be no religious and/or ideological conflict.

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.
You say that there is no evidence for God. But, there's always the possibility, however slight, that a God exists. What if by imposing your lack of belief on entire generations of humanity you are condemning countless people to Hell? You may create a utopia in the process, but wouldn't it just be better to raise generations of people who might or might not be religious and don't kill each other either way?
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.

We should all believe in atheism because religious people burn good atheists who support homosexual liberal family values at stakes and turn them into steaks and eat them with blood soaked maztah balls.

By the way, why did you switch accounts?
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Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/8/2014 8:10:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let's start with your use of the phrase "militant atheist". Atheists aren't lobbying congress to have laws supporting atheism passed. We don't collect $71 billion in tax-payer monies annually. We don't engage in door-to-door programs, interrupting people's private time in attempts to sway them to adopting our beliefs, and we don't tell people they'll suffer throughout eternity for disbelieving us. We don't attempt to belittle valid methodologies like logic, evidence and reasoning in trying to promote ideas which simply can't withstand rational scrutiny. And yet somehow, you twist the reality so completely that you see atheists as "militant", and theists as somehow persecuted

In so doing, you've demonstrated that you're not utilizing cognition to find your path. You're instead falling victim to the spin-doctors who attempt to argue through the use of phrase generation, and twisting negative connotations against positive actions.

I find that you're correct in noting that diversity leads to division, and such division leads to war. What I don't see is how you remove religion when it is one of the most emotionally held beliefs of diversity in all of human history. The diversity and emotionalism inherent in religion is precisely the reason that religion is the primary motivator for war.

Where religion a more rational concept, it's validity (or lack, thereof), could be rationally discussed without violence. But - as we see even in these debates - when someone holds tightly to an emotional belief - the moment that belief is challenged, they become angry. And when they find they can't counter that challenge, their anger escalates to the point of violence.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
LogicalLunatic
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10/8/2014 8:14:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 8:10:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start with your use of the phrase "militant atheist". Atheists aren't lobbying congress to have laws supporting atheism passed. We don't collect $71 billion in tax-payer monies annually. We don't engage in door-to-door programs, interrupting people's private time in attempts to sway them to adopting our beliefs, and we don't tell people they'll suffer throughout eternity for disbelieving us. We don't attempt to belittle valid methodologies like logic, evidence and reasoning in trying to promote ideas which simply can't withstand rational scrutiny. And yet somehow, you twist the reality so completely that you see atheists as "militant", and theists as somehow persecuted

In so doing, you've demonstrated that you're not utilizing cognition to find your path. You're instead falling victim to the spin-doctors who attempt to argue through the use of phrase generation, and twisting negative connotations against positive actions.

I find that you're correct in noting that diversity leads to division, and such division leads to war. What I don't see is how you remove religion when it is one of the most emotionally held beliefs of diversity in all of human history. The diversity and emotionalism inherent in religion is precisely the reason that religion is the primary motivator for war.

Where religion a more rational concept, it's validity (or lack, thereof), could be rationally discussed without violence. But - as we see even in these debates - when someone holds tightly to an emotional belief - the moment that belief is challenged, they become angry. And when they find they can't counter that challenge, their anger escalates to the point of violence.

The entire OP seems to have been over your head.
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Beastt
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10/8/2014 8:14:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.

Where do you even see an indication of any such attempt? Atheists tend to use intellect, logic and evidence to support their claims. These are tools which fail to support theism, which is illogical, appeals to ignorance, and lacks any objective evidence.

Which atheist dragged you to your computer, put a gun to your head, and told you to log in here? We're not using force. That's the tool of the theist who has nothing else in his arsenal. You have no logic which points to your God. You have no evidence which points to your God. And intelligence only refutes all gods.

But when we get people together who believe in diverse gods, neither one can turn to logic, evidence or intelligence to support their beliefs. So they turn to violence.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
LogicalLunatic
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10/8/2014 8:16:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 8:14:30 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.

Where do you even see an indication of any such attempt? Atheists tend to use intellect, logic and evidence to support their claims. These are tools which fail to support theism, which is illogical, appeals to ignorance, and lacks any objective evidence.

Which atheist dragged you to your computer, put a gun to your head, and told you to log in here? We're not using force. That's the tool of the theist who has nothing else in his arsenal. You have no logic which points to your God. You have no evidence which points to your God. And intelligence only refutes all gods.

But when we get people together who believe in diverse gods, neither one can turn to logic, evidence or intelligence to support their beliefs. So they turn to violence.

You go beyond merely attempting to disprove theism. You are insulting people's religions in the process.
If you want to prove me wrong, then please be more civil whenever debating religion. Granted, I insult atheists just as much as you insult theists, but I'm simply a jerk.
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Beastt
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10/8/2014 9:02:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 8:16:39 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 10/8/2014 8:14:30 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.

Where do you even see an indication of any such attempt? Atheists tend to use intellect, logic and evidence to support their claims. These are tools which fail to support theism, which is illogical, appeals to ignorance, and lacks any objective evidence.

Which atheist dragged you to your computer, put a gun to your head, and told you to log in here? We're not using force. That's the tool of the theist who has nothing else in his arsenal. You have no logic which points to your God. You have no evidence which points to your God. And intelligence only refutes all gods.

But when we get people together who believe in diverse gods, neither one can turn to logic, evidence or intelligence to support their beliefs. So they turn to violence.

You go beyond merely attempting to disprove theism. You are insulting people's religions in the process.
If you want to prove me wrong, then please be more civil whenever debating religion. Granted, I insult atheists just as much as you insult theists, but I'm simply a jerk.

So it's "do as I say, not as I do"?

As a former theist I do understand that it penetrates deeply when one makes fun of your religious beliefs. As a former theist turned atheist, I can understand more completely why that is the case - it's because religious believed tend toward the ridiculous. That makes them easy to ridicule. It often takes years of indoctrination for people to accept them simply because they are so ridiculous and absurd.

Perhaps we can both take a step back by looking to a religion such as the "Heaven's Gate" community run by Reverend Marshall Applewhite. These people became convinced that the Hale/Bopp comet was acting as a shield to conceal a space craft which was waiting to take the members of this religion to a planet of nirvana. The price of admission was your life. You had to commit suicide to board the space craft. Thirty-eight people did exactly that. I would suspect we can both see the serious sadness of such an event, as well as being dumb-founded by the mentality required to accept such a story.

But this is where things become so terribly clear for me, and likely become more difficult for you. Are your beliefs REALLY any less ridiculous than these? Christians today tend to walk a tight-rope through scripture. They take great pains to avoid a great deal of it simply because it is so absurd. Is God's prohibition of mixed-fiber underwear any less ridiculous than the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate community? What about the claim that what goats see as they copulate, determines the patterns in the fur of the offspring? The Bible contains stories of witches, giants, zombies, wizards, sea monsters (the original Greek, rather than "whale), unicorns and dragons. It tells us that one can be "cleansed" after being cured of leprosy, through a ritual of repeated shavings, remaining outside of one's tent, and having blood dripped on them from a bird, freshly-killed in an earthen vessel, under running water. Seriously?

Like it or not, these things ARE ridiculous. That's why you won't find people knocking on doors and leading with these bits of scripture. It's why you'll rarely - if ever - see them as the center-piece for the week's sermon in church. And they're ready fodder for any discussion concerning the validity of the Bible.

And if you'll remember, they weren't what I offered in our first discussions on the Bible. Instead, I focused on its origin, which is - I'm only being honest to say - wholly and obviously fallacious.

Part of the problem is that religion is so inherently ridiculous and absurd, that it's difficult to make comparisons which don't appear to be insulting. In pointing out that God and Santa are equal in evidence, many theists have taken offense. They think the intent is to insult. The intent is to demonstrate that this is a reality. There really isn't any more objective evidence for God than for Santa, or unicorns, or gremlins, or fairies. That makes it a fair point. And because it seems so ridiculous that it's taken as an insult, yet is also true, it should give theists pause. However, because religion is an emotional belief, and not a rational one, it tends to be met only with anger, rather than with honest intelligent consideration.

In response, theists often fire back but use claims and phrases which are nowhere near true or appropriate, such as calling outspoken atheists, "militant". Nothing we've done is even close to militant. We're simply out-spoken, and in many cases - more familiar with your religions, than you are.

Sam Harris makes the point that if someone believes that by saying a few Latin words over their pancakes in the morning, that he can turn them into the body of Elvis, that person is bat-crap, crazy... insane! But if someone believes essentially the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus, then they're just a Catholic. And I'm quite sure many Catholics are inflamed by that. But they shouldn't be. They should be thoughtful about it, because it's true. Taking it as an insult is simply the easy way out. It's a way of avoiding the fact that it's absolutely true and worthy of intelligent consideration.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jh1234lnew
Posts: 225
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10/8/2014 9:12:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 7:43:38 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:38:16 PM, jh1234lnew wrote:
At 10/8/2014 7:04:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
You often blame religion for war.

Religion is the root of all evil: religious people support lynch mobs, slavery, killing innocent babies because their parent belongs to a country whose Pharaoh enslaved Israeli people.

Also, guess what? Religious people burn atheists at stakes.

I'll tell you the truth: religion by itself has never started a war. Here's what has started wars:

Religion has directly caused war, such as the crusades. Religious terrorism also caused the Afghanistan war. Therefore all religion is wrong.

Diversity. I have already made perhaps two threads on this, but I think that you need to read this.

This shows that religious people are racists who want to burn good atheists and good ethnic minorities at stakes and turn them into steak and eat them. Religious people also use blood to spice up Maztah balls. They also burn atheists at stakes.

Think about it: how often have religious people actively persecuted people who believe the exact same thing and are of the exact same ethnicity, and the person in question has not done anything that contradicts that religion's teachings?

You are just saying that the victims of religious terrorism deserved it because they were of a different ethnicity than the terrorists.

People with different beliefs, different characteristics and personality traits, and people with different ways of life will inevitably clash whenever it's members are active, also called "militant".
Atheism, when active and not passive (that is, its adherents are determined to wipe out religion and "liberate" people's minds from its "brainwashing"), has the exact same capacity for crimes against humanity.
I'd everyone was an atheist there'd be no religious wars. This is true. However, if everyone were of the exact same Christian or Muslim denomination there would be no religious wars in these instances either.
That is, if EVERYONE believed the exact same thing, there would be no religious and/or ideological conflict.

I warn you now: if you aggressively seek to wipe out religion through force, then you are not an iota better than the Medieval Crusaders or the Inquisitioners.
You say that there is no evidence for God. But, there's always the possibility, however slight, that a God exists. What if by imposing your lack of belief on entire generations of humanity you are condemning countless people to Hell? You may create a utopia in the process, but wouldn't it just be better to raise generations of people who might or might not be religious and don't kill each other either way?
Just think about this; I probably will not respond to replies, as the responses that I receive will likely be hostile, insulting, or even threatening.

We should all believe in atheism because religious people burn good atheists who support homosexual liberal family values at stakes and turn them into steaks and eat them with blood soaked maztah balls.

By the way, why did you switch accounts?

Becuz teh evul christiuns wunt to burn me at the steak Becuz im a good athest so I changd my ussernaim
Beastt
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10/8/2014 9:16:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 8:14:06 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 10/8/2014 8:10:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
Let's start with your use of the phrase "militant atheist". Atheists aren't lobbying congress to have laws supporting atheism passed. We don't collect $71 billion in tax-payer monies annually. We don't engage in door-to-door programs, interrupting people's private time in attempts to sway them to adopting our beliefs, and we don't tell people they'll suffer throughout eternity for disbelieving us. We don't attempt to belittle valid methodologies like logic, evidence and reasoning in trying to promote ideas which simply can't withstand rational scrutiny. And yet somehow, you twist the reality so completely that you see atheists as "militant", and theists as somehow persecuted

In so doing, you've demonstrated that you're not utilizing cognition to find your path. You're instead falling victim to the spin-doctors who attempt to argue through the use of phrase generation, and twisting negative connotations against positive actions.

I find that you're correct in noting that diversity leads to division, and such division leads to war. What I don't see is how you remove religion when it is one of the most emotionally held beliefs of diversity in all of human history. The diversity and emotionalism inherent in religion is precisely the reason that religion is the primary motivator for war.

Where religion a more rational concept, it's validity (or lack, thereof), could be rationally discussed without violence. But - as we see even in these debates - when someone holds tightly to an emotional belief - the moment that belief is challenged, they become angry. And when they find they can't counter that challenge, their anger escalates to the point of violence.

The entire OP seems to have been over your head.

Really... let's just not go there. See, this is exactly what you accuse atheists of doing - you can't refute me, so you try to launch a very generalized attack on my intelligence. I do recall you telling me that you're still a high school student and that was a good move on your part because it buys you a little extra consideration. And you certainly exhibit more intelligence than the average high school student. But I assure you, if you want to get into a debate based on pure intellect, I'll lay waste to you in very... VERY little time.

You need to check yourself. You're all upset about people insulting your religion, and then you lash out by insulting them? Perhaps you should simply take the points I've made to heart. The term "militant atheist" is completely inappropriate, and completely false. If you want people to respect your beliefs, why are you lying about their behaviors?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire