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Boy is Killed by Sacrificial Goat

YYW
Posts: 36,282
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10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'
Tsar of DDO
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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10/10/2014 12:52:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

This is just sad.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.
Tsar of DDO
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/10/2014 1:01:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.
You know what... that's a distinct possibility. Perhaps that's why I'm an atheists and a vegan. :-)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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10/10/2014 1:02:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 1:01:49 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.
You know what... that's a distinct possibility. Perhaps that's why I'm an atheists and a vegan. :-)

I hear goats are gross anyway...
Tsar of DDO
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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10/10/2014 4:17:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The death of a child is not a laughing matter.

I am ashamed for you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 5:50:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.

I hope you can put your money where your mouth is. I can debate you on God's existence, that assuming God exists Allah is more likely than the Trinity, and/or the ethics of sacrificing animals!

I bet you do not even know about the religious obligation and make this comment. To follow in the steps of Abraham, Muslims slaughter an animal (or ask a slaughterer to do so) and distribute the meat amongst the poor.

I know you won't debate, because you always like giving comments without proving them.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 5:57:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
While this was no doubt a tragedy, it was no one's mistake. The father obviously made a miscalculation, and this thing happened. I do not see how this is inherently something wrong with the custom.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/10/2014 6:04:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 5:50:48 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.

I hope you can put your money where your mouth is. I can debate you on God's existence, that assuming God exists Allah is more likely than the Trinity, and/or the ethics of sacrificing animals!

I bet you do not even know about the religious obligation and make this comment. To follow in the steps of Abraham, Muslims slaughter an animal (or ask a slaughterer to do so) and distribute the meat amongst the poor.

I know you won't debate, because you always like giving comments without proving them.

Perhaps you should be somewhat more concerned about what you don't know. We can start with the fact that you don't seem to know that "proof" in the context you've presented is purely fallacious. It suggests conclusive evidence so powerful that no one would be able to reject the conclusion it provides. People aren't that objective. You accept/reject evidence on a subjective basis, especially when it comes to beliefs you hold on an emotional basis.

As for the animal, the idea of sacrificing some poor animal as an offering to your imaginary sky-daddy is perhaps the most pathetic of ignorant superstition. If Allah can whip up creatures at will, then what value would a slaughtered goat hold for him?

As for the poor, they'd be better off if you didn't raise the goats and fed the poor the food the goat would have eaten. I don't have numbers specific to goats but with cattle, the loss of calories is 90%. Feed a cow 1,000 calories and you get 100 calories in meat. Goats likely offer a similar loss. Raising animals for food is one of the worst methods from a financial, ethical, ecological and healthful perspective. You are ALWAYS better off to raise and eat the plants you would otherwise feed to the animals, than you are to waste most of the calories by converting them to meat before consumption. And when this kind of illogical action is taken in the name of imaginary fairy-creatures, it simply raises the level of ignorance by at least an order of magnitude.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.

Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 6:35:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:04:02 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:50:48 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:53:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:40:44 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:07:58 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 10/9/2014 10:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Boy dies as he is hit by goat plunging to the ground after escaping sacrifice on sixth floor of apartment block

Heval Yildirim died when sacrificial goat jumped off building and fell on him

The 13-year-old was playing with friends when it fell from a block of flats

The goat had been bought by his father for the Eid-al-Adha festival

During festival, Muslims will slaughter a sheep or goat in an act of sacrifice

His father had put the goat on the rooftop as their flat was too cramped

A prosecutor in Turkey described it as 'the first of its kind around the world'

Freak accident... so the death toll of 13-year old killed by flying sheep goes on to 1! All sh!t aside, this is an action that should be a little bit more safe. I mean, a parent just lost their child, so their lives are about ruined.

The worst of this is that they probably won't learn that killing anything as an offering to a fairytale character isn't just stupid, it's insanity.

Maybe Allah just upped the ante on them, turned down the goat, and took their son!

Or, maybe Allah is a fiction and people shouldn't be holding goats on roofs -especially for the purposes of sacrificing them.

I hope you can put your money where your mouth is. I can debate you on God's existence, that assuming God exists Allah is more likely than the Trinity, and/or the ethics of sacrificing animals!

I bet you do not even know about the religious obligation and make this comment. To follow in the steps of Abraham, Muslims slaughter an animal (or ask a slaughterer to do so) and distribute the meat amongst the poor.

I know you won't debate, because you always like giving comments without proving them.

Perhaps you should be somewhat more concerned about what you don't know. We can start with the fact that you don't seem to know that "proof" in the context you've presented is purely fallacious. It suggests conclusive evidence so powerful that no one would be able to reject the conclusion it provides. People aren't that objective. You accept/reject evidence on a subjective basis, especially when it comes to beliefs you hold on an emotional basis.

As for the animal, the idea of sacrificing some poor animal as an offering to your imaginary sky-daddy is perhaps the most pathetic of ignorant superstition. If Allah can whip up creatures at will, then what value would a slaughtered goat hold for him?

As for the poor, they'd be better off if you didn't raise the goats and fed the poor the food the goat would have eaten. I don't have numbers specific to goats but with cattle, the loss of calories is 90%. Feed a cow 1,000 calories and you get 100 calories in meat. Goats likely offer a similar loss. Raising animals for food is one of the worst methods from a financial, ethical, ecological and healthful perspective. You are ALWAYS better off to raise and eat the plants you would otherwise feed to the animals, than you are to waste most of the calories by converting them to meat before consumption. And when this kind of illogical action is taken in the name of imaginary fairy-creatures, it simply raises the level of ignorance by at least an order of magnitude.

Listen man I know you like being idiotic in the religious forums, could you muster the balls to do a debate? Where you are precise, and people can judge you?

You love throwing around words "falacious" I mean dude I bet you could not translate what this means: <>[]X-->~[]~X. Translate it seeing how you seem to find yourself a logic master. From someone who has studied logic, not to mention I never provided a proof yet?!?

Its always nice for you to make fun, I ask this simple question: do you have any guts? if you do please challenge me to a debate.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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10/10/2014 6:43:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!

Are you incapable of discussion? What is it about discussion that frightens you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/10/2014 6:46:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!

Let's see:

*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 6:46:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:43:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!

Are you incapable of discussion? What is it about discussion that frightens you?

1. The fact that there is no precision.
2. You can drop arguments, act idiotic, spew nonsense without consequence
3. You can have people gang up on one person
4. There is a massive time difference
5. No logical order to argumentation
6. general dislike
7. this is a DAMNED DEBATE SITE NOT A DISCUSSION SITE
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/10/2014 6:51:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:46:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!

Let's see:

*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.

You have been the one person who is respectful so I shall be so too. Thank you for these questions, I hope I can answer them.

We do not give this sacrifice to God per say, it is not an offering mind you. Instead this is to show that we are willing to part with money, and give charity for His sake. We certainly do not put meat into bowls infront of the Kabah now do we? Instead we slaughter the animal, and distribute the meat between the poor.

Now unlike paganism of idolatory where the figures are representations of gods, in Islam the Kabah is nothing of the sort. The kabah is there to function as a method where humans can bow. The Kabah for humans is only stone, nothing more. Our prayers are directed to God, and Allah alone. The stone is not a representation of Allah, it is the House of God. This is not to be taken literally either.

The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. I am now leaving, think people what they may that I ran away I have no need to enagage in forum debates. I came here for formal debates with logic and argumentation. If you ever wish to do that please pm me.
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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10/10/2014 6:52:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:46:53 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:43:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:36:12 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:20:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:52:04 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/10/2014 5:27:47 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
What is this? Are the worshippers of the one true god sacrificing animals like pagan dogs? Willeth Allah not send them to hell now to be sodomized by Megatron for an eternity?

No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too.

Why do people find it so hard to be decent when discussing issues. I usually do not debate people like you, but please I outlined the debates I am willing with YYW above. Challenge me to anyone of them, especially any point on morality of Islam. That is, if you can do something more than comment, and actually ARGUE for a cause.


Personally, I don't think worship in itself or idolatry is evil ( hence have nothing to do with morals ) but I think sacrificing innocent animals is evil and bad. I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy amongst Muslims that they don't recognise idolatric tendencies in their own faith while condemning all others.

Not in the least. How is that idolatry? Why do none of you debate me? I mean if you are so certain CHALLENGE ME TO A DEBATE!

Are you incapable of discussion? What is it about discussion that frightens you?

1. The fact that there is no precision.
2. You can drop arguments, act idiotic, spew nonsense without consequence
3. You can have people gang up on one person
4. There is a massive time difference
5. No logical order to argumentation
6. general dislike
7. this is a DAMNED DEBATE SITE NOT A DISCUSSION SITE

Then don't come to the forum section, which is a discussion format.
Why do you get angry when you don't get your own way?
It would seem very childish to me.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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10/10/2014 6:53:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I didn't check your profile.
Now that I have I realize that you are, in fact, a child.
That explains it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/10/2014 7:14:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:51:48 AM, Ajabi

*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.

You have been the one person who is respectful so I shall be so too. Thank you for these questions, I hope I can answer them.

We do not give this sacrifice to God per say, it is not an offering mind you. Instead this is to show that we are willing to part with money, and give charity for His sake. We certainly do not put meat into bowls infront of the Kabah now do we? Instead we slaughter the animal, and distribute the meat between the poor.

generally speaking, pagan cultures feast on sacrificial meat during animal sacrifices. It may not be distributed to the poor in the same sense, but that is merely a question of how big the society was. Most pagan communities have been small and psuedo-communistic. Lacking large swathes between the different classes with the rich and poor sharing quarters. What is really the difference between a sacrifice of an animal to the god directly, rather than venerating him through the sacrifice? The general principle is the same.

Now unlike paganism of idolatory where the figures are representations of gods, in Islam the Kabah is nothing of the sort. The kabah is there to function as a method where humans can bow. The Kabah for humans is only stone, nothing more. Our prayers are directed to God, and Allah alone. The stone is not a representation of Allah, it is the House of God. This is not to be taken literally either.

It's obviously not just a stone. It is a sacred object, precisely like a monolith or a statue risen to any divine being in paganism.

I am well aware that the stone itself isn't worshipped, but it is a representation of divine power. And on that not: other Arab tribes used analogous stones as their representations for their gods. The difference is... Well there is no difference other than the pantheons they respectively represent.


The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. I am now leaving, think people what they may that I ran away I have no need to enagage in forum debates. I came here for formal debates with logic and argumentation. If you ever wish to do that please pm me.

Oh well
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/10/2014 9:01:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:46:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.
Indeed you don't. Since you are ignorant on the very definition you're attempting to discuss, it is wiser to not enter a discussion at all. Additionally, if you think Muslims turn toward the Kaba because of the object itself rather than for other purposes, then take it mildly, but very personally, when I call you ignorant once again. And I will not excuse myself.

And to the OP: Do you have a point with this thread? I am curious as to whether you simply find the story interesting or worthy of raising awareness concerning risks of religious rituals, or to bash Islam in whatever way you can.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/10/2014 9:03:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:52:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
Then don't come to the forum section, which is a discussion format.
Why do you get angry when you don't get your own way?
It would seem very childish to me.
Why are you on the discussion section and continually unwilling to discuss? You are unwilling and unable to do so, which strikes me as odd, for most people who are active here are capable of either debating formally or discussing, or both. You are neither.
Demetriuscapone
Posts: 152
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10/10/2014 12:26:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 9:01:07 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:46:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.
Indeed you don't. Since you are ignorant on the very definition you're attempting to discuss, it is wiser to not enter a discussion at all. Additionally, if you think Muslims turn toward the Kaba because of the object itself rather than for other purposes, then take it mildly, but very personally, when I call you ignorant once again. And I will not excuse myself.

I don't think they turn towards the Kaba for the objects. But neither do polytheists. In other words, it's exactly the same thing, it's just that polytheists have more gods.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/10/2014 8:26:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:26:48 PM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
At 10/10/2014 9:01:07 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/10/2014 6:46:08 AM, Demetriuscapone wrote:
*polytheists worship a representation of their gods carved in stone and sacrifice to it.
*muslims turn to a holy city in prayer to their god and sacrifice goats to him. If this is not idolatry, I don't know what is.
Indeed you don't. Since you are ignorant on the very definition you're attempting to discuss, it is wiser to not enter a discussion at all. Additionally, if you think Muslims turn toward the Kaba because of the object itself rather than for other purposes, then take it mildly, but very personally, when I call you ignorant once again. And I will not excuse myself.

I don't think they turn towards the Kaba for the objects. But neither do polytheists. In other words, it's exactly the same thing, it's just that polytheists have more gods.
You stated earlier, "No doubt they worship idols by turning to Mekka when they pray too." Contradicts your reply to me, does it not, Ma'am? Polytheists do not necessarily worship objects; that was, nevertheless, the case for the ancient Pagans. We Muslims, however, turn toward the Ka'ba for the purpose of being united. It is the direction that matters, not the object. The object is neither represented nor deemed to be of a nature akin to idolatry. If that were the case, the Muslims would not pray on the mountains of Mecca in the direction of the Ka'ba without facing it directly.
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/10/2014 8:44:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 4:17:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
The death of a child is not a laughing matter.

I am ashamed for you.

A child dies in a house fire.

LOL.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/10/2014 11:02:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
A reply is surely welcome.

At 10/10/2014 9:01:07 AM, Mirza wrote:
And to the OP: Do you have a point with this thread? I am curious as to whether you simply find the story interesting or worthy of raising awareness concerning risks of religious rituals, or to bash Islam in whatever way you can.