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How is God connected to the Bible?

Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/10/2014 6:51:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You are right, when seek its history,it is very easy to understand that The Bible has been written by men.
Why four gospels? Why not one?
Where is the dialog between Jesus and God?
First of all, Jesus is a messenger, nor god, neither the son of god, according to Qur'an (which is the original message of god)
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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10/11/2014 12:27:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:51:18 AM, frbnsn wrote:
You are right, when seek its history,it is very easy to understand that The Bible has been written by men.
Why four gospels? Why not one?
Where is the dialog between Jesus and God?
First of all, Jesus is a messenger, nor god, neither the son of god, according to Qur'an (which is the original message of god)

That would be the original message that came after the other messages, I guess?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/11/2014 1:05:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

a Christian view might be:

The Bible as a book is a compilation of revelations from God. Is more akin to a dictation penned down by different men and women.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 1:07:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
No, it's nothing like Halley's Comet

-It's named after men
There was a man named "Bible"?

-observed by men
No, it was written by men, edited by men, selected by men and dubbed "God's word" by men.
Go ahead and point out any part of that which isn't true.

-telescopes constructed by men to view it
Halley's Comet is a natural formation. It wasn't constructed by men, nor is it claimed to be other than what the evidence shows it to be.

-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)
I've only been seen by a few people. It's likely that more people have seen Halley's Comet, than have seen me... or you.

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.
Very likely the absolute worst attempt at an analogy that I've ever seen.

I have to ask; what point was that intended to make? Writing texts and combining a cherry-picked few into a book has nothing to do with a comet.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 1:11:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:05:56 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

a Christian view might be:

The Bible as a book is a compilation of revelations from God. Is more akin to a dictation penned down by different men and women.
Except for the fact that God didn't dictate it, didn't sign it, and never claimed it to be his work or even reflect his desires. Only people claim it to be God's word, and even then, they couldn't agree what was, and what wasn't, influenced by God.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/11/2014 1:18:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

Why are you so obsessed with denying God and His Word? I'll tell you why...it's because you want a free ride through life into death void of giving account for yourself to God. You can't have it your way except in the fire of Hell, ane even then you will be pulled up to appear in the final Judgement before being cast away forever into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. He that believes not is condemned already. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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10/11/2014 1:23:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:18:03 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

Why are you so obsessed with denying God and His Word? I'll tell you why...it's because you want a free ride through life into death void of giving account for yourself to God. You can't have it your way except in the fire of Hell, ane even then you will be pulled up to appear in the final Judgement before being cast away forever into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. He that believes not is condemned already. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The boogieman god.
You do understand what an insane concept that is, don't you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 1:28:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:18:03 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

Why are you so obsessed with denying God and His Word?
You're wayyyyyy ahead of yourself. First, you need to show that it is God's word. Every single step in its construction shows it to be only the work of men. So move back to Start, collect your $200, and start over. You don't start a marathon on mile 25. So before you claim I'm denying "God's word", show me some viable reason to believe that it is "God's word".

I'll tell you why...
No.... no you won't. Because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And the sooner you face that fact, the sooner we can get to debating religion (like the title of the forum says), instead of you pretending you know a damned thing about me. Address the issue. I seriously doubt you live a cleaner, more rational life than I do. Don't judge when you can't have a clue what you're talking about.

Okay?

None of what you wrote is even on topic. Explain why you believe the Bible is God's word. Or don't post.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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10/11/2014 2:14:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?

I had a reply to this, but I either botched it, or forgot to post it, it went something like this:

Socrates having said or not said something is mundane. Its normal. It holds no sway over me, assumes no authority, and aside from philosophical insight, gives me nothing nor takes it away. I have no consequence of believing or not believing it, aside from my own ignorance or enlightenment.

The Bible, though, that is obviously not the case. Its an extraordinary claim, that does have immediate and ETERNAL conequences based on my involvement. Further more, its only reference is itself, there is no other text that at the time of Jesus walking around made mention of Jesus walking around. There is no other text that at the time of the Flood, made mention of some dude in the woods building a boat. Socrates, on the other hand, has quite a bit of third party folks, not all with the same agenda that references Socrates, his works, life, etc.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 4:12:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.
We know specifically who the people were who claimed to be writing the thoughts and words of Socrates, and Socrates was a standard biological entity - a person. We already know that people do exist, so he gains credibility which God does not have. No one has been able to show that a disembodied intelligence is even possible. There is nothing even improbable about the existence of Socrates.

So far as I'm aware, the people claiming to repeat the words and ideas of Socrates don't present them as contradictions, nor do they make contradictory claims about the abilities of Socrates. So Socrates again gains credibility over God.

We have three people - all of whom are identified - who wrote about Socrates, and no one claiming to have written on his behalf, being dismissed by a council of unlearned men, based on their own subjective standards and unverified traditional claims. So Socrates again gains credibility over God.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?
I'm not quite sure what you're on, but I'm sure somewhere there are dogs training to sniff it out.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 4:14:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 2:14:14 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?



I had a reply to this, but I either botched it, or forgot to post it, it went something like this:

Socrates having said or not said something is mundane. Its normal. It holds no sway over me, assumes no authority, and aside from philosophical insight, gives me nothing nor takes it away. I have no consequence of believing or not believing it, aside from my own ignorance or enlightenment.

The Bible, though, that is obviously not the case. Its an extraordinary claim, that does have immediate and ETERNAL conequences based on my involvement. Further more, its only reference is itself, there is no other text that at the time of Jesus walking around made mention of Jesus walking around. There is no other text that at the time of the Flood, made mention of some dude in the woods building a boat. Socrates, on the other hand, has quite a bit of third party folks, not all with the same agenda that references Socrates, his works, life, etc.

BRILLIANT ^2
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/11/2014 4:51:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:14:07 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/11/2014 2:14:14 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?



I had a reply to this, but I either botched it, or forgot to post it, it went something like this:

Socrates having said or not said something is mundane. Its normal. It holds no sway over me, assumes no authority, and aside from philosophical insight, gives me nothing nor takes it away. I have no consequence of believing or not believing it, aside from my own ignorance or enlightenment.

The Bible, though, that is obviously not the case. Its an extraordinary claim, that does have immediate and ETERNAL conequences based on my involvement. Further more, its only reference is itself, there is no other text that at the time of Jesus walking around made mention of Jesus walking around. There is no other text that at the time of the Flood, made mention of some dude in the woods building a boat. Socrates, on the other hand, has quite a bit of third party folks, not all with the same agenda that references Socrates, his works, life, etc.

BRILLIANT ^2

You're arguing that the effect on your life is what determines how truthful you think the subject is.

That is clearly illogical. If third party writings that agree on a subject is "objective" enough evidence for you to belief in Socrates than it should be evidence for God.

Sure there are other facets and qualities that make Socrates more acceptable than God. But your reasoning is not logic. you saying the truth of whether Subject A exists or not is based on the impact it has in your life.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/11/2014 7:26:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:51:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:14:07 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/11/2014 2:14:14 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 1:07:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:54:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:46:58 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

Were only the Bible so predictable.

The line of logic you espouse could just as easily be applied to many people in the world and knowing, for sure, that the Lincoln memorial exists.

There is, however, a rather definitive difference between the Bible and its explanations/existance, Haley's Comet and its explanations/existance, and the Lincoln Memorial's explanation/existance, isn't there? ;)

Your right I should have gone for the tried and true, how do we know Socrates said, "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."

All we have about Socrates is what was written by dead men thousands of years ago, people we can't interrogate.

So now Socrates=God?

Yeah both are said to have said things through the writings of third-persons. and there is absolutely no objective scientific repeatable modern evidence for either.

Has Socrates and God ever been seen in the same room? conspiracy theory or am i on to something here?



I had a reply to this, but I either botched it, or forgot to post it, it went something like this:

Socrates having said or not said something is mundane. Its normal. It holds no sway over me, assumes no authority, and aside from philosophical insight, gives me nothing nor takes it away. I have no consequence of believing or not believing it, aside from my own ignorance or enlightenment.

The Bible, though, that is obviously not the case. Its an extraordinary claim, that does have immediate and ETERNAL conequences based on my involvement. Further more, its only reference is itself, there is no other text that at the time of Jesus walking around made mention of Jesus walking around. There is no other text that at the time of the Flood, made mention of some dude in the woods building a boat. Socrates, on the other hand, has quite a bit of third party folks, not all with the same agenda that references Socrates, his works, life, etc.

BRILLIANT ^2

You're arguing that the effect on your life is what determines how truthful you think the subject is.
No, I'm arguing that what FaustianJustice wrote was brilliant. Are you sure you're responding to the correct post?

And I hate to say anything; but Wha....? I wish you would work on learning how to assemble words to convey whole thoughts. Arguing the effect of what... on my life (or his life), determining how truthful what subject is? It's like you wrote the last half of your sentence, and left off the first half. If you get so lazy that you just plug in "effect" without an explanation and "subject" without defining what subject, you're going to find you've wasted your time and effort on the whole meaningless sentence.

That is clearly illogical. If third party writings that agree on a subject is "objective" enough evidence for you to belief in Socrates than it should be evidence for God.
PROBLEM: Not only do many of the writings in the Bible not agree (they actually contradict), but many of the authors were writing having read other writings, and some of them even copied from other writers. And when we find that many of these stories are isolated to the Bible - even though they would have represented events of unquestionable historic interest - it's about as suspect as wondering why Jack's bean stalk isn't featured in any agricultural journals. And the answer is just as obvious (and the same).

Sure there are other facets and qualities that make Socrates more acceptable than God. But your reasoning is not logic.
That's amusing coming from someone who thinks it's logical to believe in an unevidenced disembodied consciousness which gave himself a body so he could kill it, as a plan to circumvent his own rules. If we poor little "illogical" creatures decided we didn't want to kill something, we'd probably just not kill it. I've made a habit of not killing things I don't wish to kill.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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10/11/2014 11:47:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I'm fairly sure they mean something along the lines of:

1. Jesus spread his teachings, which was the word of God.
2. People wrote down his teachings. So obviously humans wrote it down.
3. Obviously edited and altered by men (explaining contradictions/military actions/etc.)

So the original source was the word of God, and they loosely refer to the Bible as the word of God, as that's what it was initially intended for.

I'm also fairly sure that most do not think that God went "poof" and there was the Bible. You can probably give examples of people who believe that, but I don't think the majority do.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/12/2014 12:45:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 11:47:34 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I'm fairly sure they mean something along the lines of:

1. Jesus spread his teachings, which was the word of God.
That would only explain some parts of the New Testament and it's still untrue.

2. People wrote down his teachings. So obviously humans wrote it down.
Actually, there isn't any evidence for that. None of the supposed teachings of Jesus appear to have been written down until decades after the time Jesus is said to have died, and the evidence supports the conclusion that none of the authors are who the Bible names, nor did they know Jesus.

3. Obviously edited and altered by men (explaining contradictions/military actions/etc.)
The contradictions are more due to the mixing of incompatible ideas, from many different people, different cultures and different times, and trying to suggest that it's all one contiguous message from a single source. Obviously, it's not. The content shows that it's not. The history shows that it's not, yet somehow, Christians still insist that the God who demanded genocide, is the same God who preached "love thy enemy", and "turn the other cheek".

So the original source was the word of God, and they loosely refer to the Bible as the word of God, as that's what it was initially intended for.
Wait! What "original source", and how isit shown to be the word of God rather than the ideas of the men who wrote it?

I'm also fairly sure that most do not think that God went "poof" and there was the Bible. You can probably give examples of people who believe that, but I don't think the majority do.
Which is fine. I'm aware that some don't, and there are probably some who do. But this just brings us full circle back to the original question. What connection is there to show that the Bible actually contains anything from God?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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10/12/2014 12:55:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 12:45:37 AM, Beastt wrote:

1. Jesus spread his teachings, which was the word of God.
That would only explain some parts of the New Testament and it's still untrue.

What do you mean?


2. People wrote down his teachings. So obviously humans wrote it down.
Actually, there isn't any evidence for that. None of the supposed teachings of Jesus appear to have been written down until decades after the time Jesus is said to have died, and the evidence supports the conclusion that none of the authors are who the Bible names, nor did they know Jesus.

Many texts or documents could have been destroyed while he was still alive, since he was often persecuted against and I'm sure those in power didn't want such things to spread.

That's just a theory though. It's not evidence, but with this explanation, it makes more sense to say Jesus existed than to say that he didn't exist and that he was actually a fictional character that a group of people created.


3. Obviously edited and altered by men (explaining contradictions/military actions/etc.)
The contradictions are more due to the mixing of incompatible ideas, from many different people, different cultures and different times, and trying to suggest that it's all one contiguous message from a single source.

I agree that it's from a mixing of incompatible ideas. It was edited and altered by men throughout history, thus explaining the contradictory ideas. But originally it was concerned with Jesus's teachings.

Obviously, it's not. The content shows that it's not. The history shows that it's not, yet somehow, Christians still insist that the God who demanded genocide, is the same God who preached "love thy enemy", and "turn the other cheek".

That just supports the idea of conflicting ideas.


So the original source was the word of God, and they loosely refer to the Bible as the word of God, as that's what it was initially intended for.
Wait! What "original source", and how isit shown to be the word of God rather than the ideas of the men who wrote it?

The original source would Jesus, who many believe was a mouthpiece of God (e.g. God spread his teachings through Jesus) or was God himself, depending on how you interpret the trinity.

Which is fine. I'm aware that some don't, and there are probably some who do. But this just brings us full circle back to the original question. What connection is there to show that the Bible actually contains anything from God?

Well, that would be the explanation for the connection between the Bible and God.

Sadly, I can't hand you an ancient script or primary sources of historical evidence that 100% proves that explanation. It'd be nice if everything we that simple, but I'm afraid it's not.

So from your perspective there is still reasonable doubt around the explanation provided. I recognize that.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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10/12/2014 1:02:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If the bible is the word of god then it would require a declaration from god to that effect, no such declaration exists.
Ergo the bible is the words of men and claimed by men to be the words of god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
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10/12/2014 1:21:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 12:55:47 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 10/12/2014 12:45:37 AM, Beastt wrote:

1. Jesus spread his teachings, which was the word of God.
That would only explain some parts of the New Testament and it's still untrue.

What do you mean?
Jesus wasn't around yet in the Old Testament. And the teachings in the New Testament didn't come from Jesus. They tend to be much older ideas, sometimes coming from older religions, which became attributed to Jesus over time and the evolution of Christian oral tradition.


2. People wrote down his teachings. So obviously humans wrote it down.
Actually, there isn't any evidence for that. None of the supposed teachings of Jesus appear to have been written down until decades after the time Jesus is said to have died, and the evidence supports the conclusion that none of the authors are who the Bible names, nor did they know Jesus.

Many texts or documents could have been destroyed while he was still alive, since he was often persecuted against and I'm sure those in power didn't want such things to spread.
Well, except that with more than 2-dozen known historians in that region and time, no one ever even mentions Jesus. So how intensely could he have been persecuted if no one even noticed that he existed? (Assuming he did.)

That's just a theory though. It's not evidence, but with this explanation, it makes more sense to say Jesus existed than to say that he didn't exist and that he was actually a fictional character that a group of people created.
No, saying that documents could have been destroyed, isn't evidence. It's just conjecture. When you begin to look at the evidence, it supports the idea that Jesus is a myth.


3. Obviously edited and altered by men (explaining contradictions/military actions/etc.)
The contradictions are more due to the mixing of incompatible ideas, from many different people, different cultures and different times, and trying to suggest that it's all one contiguous message from a single source.

I agree that it's from a mixing of incompatible ideas. It was edited and altered by men throughout history, thus explaining the contradictory ideas. But originally it was concerned with Jesus's teachings.
No. Again, this is untrue. We don't even know what - if anything - Jesus taught. If no one recorded these teachings - or if the written records were destroyed (as you suggested), then we can't have his teachings, (assuming he taught anything).

Obviously, it's not. The content shows that it's not. The history shows that it's not, yet somehow, Christians still insist that the God who demanded genocide, is the same God who preached "love thy enemy", and "turn the other cheek".

That just supports the idea of conflicting ideas.
Which is explained by the fact that different authors were recording different ideas, rather than a single universal idea... as Christians claim.


So the original source was the word of God, and they loosely refer to the Bible as the word of God, as that's what it was initially intended for.
Wait! What "original source", and how isit shown to be the word of God rather than the ideas of the men who wrote it?

The original source would Jesus, who many believe was a mouthpiece of God (e.g. God spread his teachings through Jesus) or was God himself, depending on how you interpret the trinity.
No, no, no... look at the way you're jumping around. First you say it's the word of Jesus, then you say all the writings containing his teachings may have been destroyed, and now you're saying Jesus was the original source again. There is no evidence that Jesus was the source to any of the ideas in the Bible. There's so little evidence, that the existence of Jesus himself is highly questionable.

Which is fine. I'm aware that some don't, and there are probably some who do. But this just brings us full circle back to the original question. What connection is there to show that the Bible actually contains anything from God?

Well, that would be the explanation for the connection between the Bible and God.
There is no connection between the Bible and God.

Sadly, I can't hand you an ancient script or primary sources of historical evidence that 100% proves that explanation. It'd be nice if everything we that simple, but I'm afraid it's not.
The supposed connection between God and the Bible is simply implied. There's absolutely NO support for it. And if we look at the origin of the Bible, it clearly shows that the Bible is all just the work of men.

So from your perspective there is still reasonable doubt around the explanation provided. I recognize that.
Your explanation is contradictory. First the Bible is the teachings of Jesus, then all of the teachings of Jesus were destroyed, then you claim the Bible contains the teachings of Jesus again. And many parts of the Bible have nothing to do with Jesus. The entire Old Testament was written centuries before the supposed time of Jesus.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/12/2014 8:50:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

EVERYTHING was created and formed by our invisible Creator within His mind. However, everything we observe in this world, including the books, will be burned up soon because it won't be needed in the next age.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/12/2014 9:06:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

And if all of it was "inspired" by the deity, why are there so many discordant passages and contradictions?
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/12/2014 9:08:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 6:51:18 AM, frbnsn wrote:
You are right, when seek its history,it is very easy to understand that The Bible has been written by men.
Why four gospels? Why not one?
Where is the dialog between Jesus and God?
First of all, Jesus is a messenger, nor god, neither the son of god, according to Qur'an (which is the original message of god)

Your qur'an is no more "word of gawd" than the bible. The qur'an is the work of a pedophile that read the bible and said, "Hell, I can do better than that!"
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/12/2014 9:09:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 12:40:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I know it's like Halley's Comet.
-It's named after men
-observed by men
-telescopes constructed by men to view it
-it's only seen by a few people? (seriously if it existed everyone would know by first hand experience)... some people die never seeing Halley's comet. (convenient)

We know everything now a days. Clearly Halley's comet is a farce. Made up and sold through hearsay and man-made images.

This is one of the most non-sequitur responses of metaphorical BS I have ever seen you post...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/12/2014 9:32:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 1:18:03 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

Why are you so obsessed with denying God and His Word? I'll tell you why...it's because you want a free ride through life into death void of giving account for yourself to God. You can't have it your way except in the fire of Hell, ane even then you will be pulled up to appear in the final Judgement before being cast away forever into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. He that believes not is condemned already. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm getting chills, here... I think I'm ready to go get baptized... Oh, no...

Wait...

Aaaahhh.... Nevermind. It was just gas.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/12/2014 9:38:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 12:37:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Christians are taught that the Bible is "God's word", but few seem to know how the actual Bible came to be. There is no connection to God throughout the Bible's origin.

The Bible was...

- Written by men
- Selected by men (from many writings claimed as "God's word")
- Edited and altered by men
- Dubbed "God's word" by men (despite the fact the council never agreed)

So what part did God play in the Bible, or has God never expressed any opinion or interest in it?

I'm sorry, but that is ruibbish.

In many placces scripture tells us that it was inspired by God, and that is the connection. Puut simply it was passed down to man by God's son through teh use of holys spirit, in some instances verbatim, n some merely by inspiring the writer to comment in ther own words.

How else could such early men know truths such as:

"The earth is hanging on nothing" when all around put it on the shoulders of a turtle or elephants or both, some even saying it was carried by Atlas, which is why world maps carry that mean.

Describing the land as being in one piece in Genesis 1, and then as being separated in Genesis 10.

If you read it properly, Genesis one has the order of events after the sun moon stars and earth were all created accurate according to science.

How could people know these fact if nots from one who was there at the time? God.

There are other examples, like the fact that the writer of Revelation was able to look 1800 years into the future and know that we would reach the stage we are at where we are ruining the earth, and we really are.

I know some people who simply want to deny truth claim that the prophecy about Cyrus, was written by Isaiah after the event, but in that case how do they explain the Cyrus Cylinder saying that he read it?

No, the bible comes from God, and despite all of Satan's efforts to destroy it, corrupt it, or denigrate it, it is and always was God's word and so the connection between it and him is a direct one, as Paul says, though admittedly speaking of the Hebrew Scriptures.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
ASV(i) 16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. 17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.