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Do we possess free will?

Idealist
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10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/12/2014 3:26:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...
Well as far as I am aware these self-acclaimed xtians believe they have a freewill, yet they also admit they keep freely choosing to use that freewill, to keep sinning; in violation of 1 John 3:6?
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/12/2014 5:23:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.

freewill: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

The fact that Story book god threatens everyone with dire consequences for not believing, proves no one has a freewill at all and a ' partial/limited ' freewill violates what a freewill is!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/12/2014 8:42:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

Why do you need man to teach you about free will when all you have to do is listen to the voice of the Lord who can teach you the past, present and future?

Unbelievers like yourself will remain in total deception until your body dies in this age.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 3:26:41 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...
Well as far as I am aware these self-acclaimed xtians believe they have a freewill, yet they also admit they keep freely choosing to use that freewill, to keep sinning; in violation of 1 John 3:6?

Why do you call them "self-proclaimed" as if that were an insult? I mean, we all claim ourselves to be one thing or another, so I guess we're all "self-proclaimed." There is no need to word yourself in a way that seems meant to cause insult, is there?

As to the rest, yes, they do keep "sinning," as the Bible defines it. I think it says that all men sin and fall short of the grace of God, so at least they admit it. What I was wondering was whether or not we do what we do of our own choice, or if we're all just helpless puppets?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/12/2014 9:47:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/12/2014 3:26:41 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...
Well as far as I am aware these self-acclaimed xtians believe they have a freewill, yet they also admit they keep freely choosing to use that freewill, to keep sinning; in violation of 1 John 3:6?

Why do you call them "self-proclaimed" as if that were an insult? I mean, we all claim ourselves to be one thing or another, so I guess we're all "self-proclaimed." There is no need to word yourself in a way that seems meant to cause insult, is there?

As to the rest, yes, they do keep "sinning," as the Bible defines it. I think it says that all men sin and fall short of the grace of God, so at least they admit it. What I was wondering was whether or not we do what we do of our own choice, or if we're all just helpless puppets?

We're all just helpless puppets because we're experiencing a dream that God put together in His thoughts.

Christians actually believe they can manipulate God's dream ( His will ) with their pathetic prayers to their false deities.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/12/2014 11:01:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 3:26:41 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...
Well as far as I am aware these self-acclaimed xtians believe they have a freewill, yet they also admit they keep freely choosing to use that freewill, to keep sinning; in violation of 1 John 3:6?

At 10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
Why do you call them "self-proclaimed" as if that were an insult?
It is meant as a justified insult!

Do you wish to take the test for a genuine jebus' believer?

Let me know and I'll list them for you and see how you go?

At 10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
I mean, we all claim ourselves to be one thing or another, so I guess we're all "self-proclaimed." There is no need to word yourself in a way that seems meant to cause insult, is there?
Yes! because I hate lies & fraud & that is precisely all these self-proclaimed xtians & believers in general have to offer!

At 10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
As to the rest, yes, they do keep "sinning," as the Bible defines it. I think it says that all men sin and fall short of the grace of God, so at least they admit it.
A fatal admission -

Read your own story book propaganda -

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. . . . . . 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:6,8) KJV Story book

So by your fatal admission, all you folk demonstrate is that you are actually ' agents of your devil '

At 10/12/2014 8:43:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
What I was wondering was whether or not we do what we do of our own choice, or if we're all just helpless puppets?
Try stopping sinning entirely as jebus demands (1 John 3:6) and let us know how you went on and for how long you estimate your efforts lasted?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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10/12/2014 11:15:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
as to the topic...

we certainly make choices,
but I'd imagine the process by which we go about making such choices is as deterministic as everything else in this world.

so whether or not I believe in free will is, I suppose, dependent upon how you'd define free will.
uncle-creepy
Posts: 26
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10/13/2014 3:14:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

I'll have to watch that video.But to give you my answer to your question.

I think that we do have at least some degree of control over our present and future,mainly our individual present and future.If we didn't,we would not be capable of making decisions and we would,in essence,be robots that do only as we are instructed to by the agent of our creation.None of us would be able to seek out our true potential,purpose,or that which provides us with meaning and fulfillment (within reason,of course) if we were constrained by a figurative leash or had reins placed on us.I do feel that we all have a destiny but it ultimately comes down to the choice of whether we take a path that goes in that direction (whether it's the short or long way) or a path that will lead us elsewhere.There is that which is in our sphere of control and/or influence and that which is not in said sphere.Within that sphere of control and/ or influence,however,is probably more than what I could type out in a single post on here.While there is no guarantee that our choices will produce the sought after or favorable outcomes for us,our free will does give us plenty of allowance for us to achieve an end or to accomplish a goal.The beauty of free will is that,when it is used for the right reasons,it makes life fun and exciting and the path that one chooses to walk was not one that was forced or imposed upon them in a dictatorial fashion.

I'm assuming though that you're speaking of "we" as in humanity as a whole.Again,there are things within that aforementioned sphere of control and/or influence and things that just aren't.But,unlike individual free will,collective free will is much more complex .People have varying desires,aims,or intentions and not all of them are benevolent.Often times,an individual or a group using their free will inevitably affects other individuals or groups.This is why we have so many problems and a lot of suffering in our world.We bring a lot of it on ourselves by using free will to make decisions that,by and large,are counterproductive for ourselves as individuals and as a collective.But I'm also of the view that there are things that happen,or are yet to happen,that is the will of a higher power and is far outside the collective sphere of control and/or influence.But free will,I feel,is part of the divine will or else the intelligence,creativity,cognizance and conscientiousness that we human beings (most of us,anyway) are in possession of would be useless if divine will was forced upon us at every turn.
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:23:39 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.

freewill: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

The fact that Story book god threatens everyone with dire consequences for not believing, proves no one has a freewill at all and a ' partial/limited ' freewill violates what a freewill is!


According to you,
do everyone have power to do everything?
Is everyman free to do everything?
Must everyone not have a respect to others?
If your answer 'yes', then you can not speak of that definition in WordWeb.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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10/14/2014 5:26:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:23:39 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.

freewill: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

The fact that Story book god threatens everyone with dire consequences for not believing, proves no one has a freewill at all and a ' partial/limited ' freewill violates what a freewill is!


According to you,
do everyone have power to do everything?
Is everyman free to do everything?
Must everyone not have a respect to others?
If your answer 'yes', then you can not speak of that definition in WordWeb.
Has Allah written the life story of everybody before creation?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/14/2014 5:50:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:23:39 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.

freewill: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

The fact that Story book god threatens everyone with dire consequences for not believing, proves no one has a freewill at all and a ' partial/limited ' freewill violates what a freewill is!


At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to you,
do everyone have power to do everything?
No!

At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
Is everyman free to do everything?
No!

Can you grow wings & fly?

Can religious folk stop sinning now?

At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
Must everyone not have a respect to others?
Respect must be earned!

Religious folk are frauds and their gods as_holes so neither deserve my respect!

At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
If your answer 'yes', then you can not speak of that definition in WordWeb.
ALL my answers are NO!

So that Wordweb definition you agree fits perfectly!

Do YOu hav e any other definitions YOU think are more appropriate?

Show us and explain why?
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/14/2014 8:16:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

Free will is a matter of definition. While Sam Harris and other neuroscientists are correct in that we cannot "control" our next thought, we can control whether or not we choose to act on any given thought. Our actions are fully within our control. The next thought to pop into our head is not necessarily within our control. We do have free will in that we choose our actions. The motivation behind our actions are still open to debate...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/14/2014 9:54:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.

what god? I am simply responding according to chemical reactions. I have no control over what I say. My brain works automatically according to whatever has ahaped it in the evironment from which it emerged out of a primordial soup My brain does not make me capable of free will, it simply fizzes in a chemical reaction responding to whatever input it gets. You are nothing but a randomly compiled group of molecules that somehow learned to replicate itself and improve into a god-like person who has abilities to manipulate the environment in your DNA driven desisre to keep itself going. When your DNA is done with you, it moves on to your chidren or it is easten and recycled to support other DNA. Is DNA the god you are referring to? Is there a god other than DNA?
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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10/14/2014 10:23:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 9:54:18 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.

what god? I am simply responding according to chemical reactions. I have no control over what I say. My brain works automatically according to whatever has ahaped it in the evironment from which it emerged out of a primordial soup My brain does not make me capable of free will,
You won't understand, but this makes you look as stupid as you present.
it simply fizzes in a chemical reaction responding to whatever input it gets.
Yes, and you can't allow yourself to even consider that because if you do you will end up in HELL. LOL
You are nothing but a randomly compiled group of molecules
Anybody silly enough to believe that my compilation of atoms is random should believe in a fairy godmother.
that somehow learned to replicate itself and improve into a god-like person who has abilities to manipulate the environment in your DNA driven desisre to keep itself going.
There was no learning involved, I do wish the uninformed who deny evolution would actually become informed before they make such fools of themselves.
When your DNA is done with you, it moves on to your chidren or it is easten and recycled to support other DNA. Is DNA the god you are referring to? Is there a god other than DNA?

Does this mean anything? FFS?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/14/2014 10:39:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 10:23:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 9:54:18 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.

what god? I am simply responding according to chemical reactions. I have no control over what I say. My brain works automatically according to whatever has ahaped it in the evironment from which it emerged out of a primordial soup My brain does not make me capable of free will,
You won't understand, but this makes you look as stupid as you present.
it simply fizzes in a chemical reaction responding to whatever input it gets.
Yes, and you can't allow yourself to even consider that because if you do you will end up in HELL. LOL
You are nothing but a randomly compiled group of molecules
Anybody silly enough to believe that my compilation of atoms is random should believe in a fairy godmother.
that somehow learned to replicate itself and improve into a god-like person who has abilities to manipulate the environment in your DNA driven desisre to keep itself going.
There was no learning involved, I do wish the uninformed who deny evolution would actually become informed before they make such fools of themselves.
When your DNA is done with you, it moves on to your chidren or it is easten and recycled to support other DNA. Is DNA the god you are referring to? Is there a god other than DNA?

Does this mean anything? FFS?

I'm trying to understand what you are talking about when you referr to a god. If your compilation of atoms did not occur by random chance resulting in the emergence of DNA with it's desire to improve it's ability to reproduce, how did it occur? Was in intelligently designed? Are you implying a god planned the arrangement of your molecules? If not by chance of circumstances of the primordial soup and the surrounding enviroment, and if not by intelligent design, how are your molecules held together?

I'm sure I am only a chemical reaction and my brain fizzes and repsonds according to the input of the enviroment around it as it adapts to survive to pass on its DNA. DNA is the god you are referring to, right? DNA is not from random chance, and it is not intelligently designed, it is the god you are referring to as my god, correct sir?

since no learning was involed in the evilution of DNA, it actually was responses to the environment which accord by chance, chemical reaactions in which only the reactions sucessful for prolonging the compositon of DNA .......but there was no success the same as no learning. Success implies a willful act. Our DNA is nothign but chemical reations which first brought the molecules of life togetther in some primordail soup long before we were able to know about it. So everything you do, say, think, feel, and imagaine, is nothing more than a chemical reaction and we have no power to do anyting other than what our chemical reactions tell us to do. There is no free will.

Case closed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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10/14/2014 10:51:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 10:39:19 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 10:23:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 9:54:18 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.

what god? I am simply responding according to chemical reactions. I have no control over what I say. My brain works automatically according to whatever has ahaped it in the evironment from which it emerged out of a primordial soup My brain does not make me capable of free will,
You won't understand, but this makes you look as stupid as you present.
it simply fizzes in a chemical reaction responding to whatever input it gets.
Yes, and you can't allow yourself to even consider that because if you do you will end up in HELL. LOL
You are nothing but a randomly compiled group of molecules
Anybody silly enough to believe that my compilation of atoms is random should believe in a fairy godmother.
that somehow learned to replicate itself and improve into a god-like person who has abilities to manipulate the environment in your DNA driven desisre to keep itself going.
There was no learning involved, I do wish the uninformed who deny evolution would actually become informed before they make such fools of themselves.
When your DNA is done with you, it moves on to your chidren or it is easten and recycled to support other DNA. Is DNA the god you are referring to? Is there a god other than DNA?

Does this mean anything? FFS?

I'm trying to understand what you are talking about when you referr to a god.
A god or gods are the creation of men, long dead men, who created the god to explain what nobody knew and because the men could explain it then they gained great power over their fellow tribesmen.
If your compilation of atoms did not occur by random chance resulting in the emergence of DNA with it's desire to improve it's ability to reproduce, how did it occur?
Evolution explains how I am what I am. You are more than welcome to believe that Tinkerbell did it for you.
Was in intelligently designed?
Is your god LOVE? Explain the Jewel Wasp.
Are you implying a god planned the arrangement of your molecules? If not by chance of circumstances of the primordial soup and the surrounding enviroment, and if not by intelligent design, how are your molecules held together?
Your imaginary friend had nothing to do with reality. Just as your "thoughts" don't.

To be perfectly honest, I can't for the life of me continue to make fun of the rest of what you have to say.

You will never, ever, ever get the message.
You are an Indoctrinate, that is a new noun I have created.

If we talk to a religious person then we are within our rights to call them an indoctrinate.
As in.
You indoctrinate you!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/14/2014 11:07:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 10:51:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 10:39:19 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 10:23:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 9:54:18 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:54:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So what then is free will? If not our capacity to choose, which comes from the brain that you deride?
Did your god create our brain with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the pump that keeps us alive with the capacity to choose or not?
Did your god create the appendix with the capacity to choose?

Tell me the answers without using the brain your god gave you that makes you capable of answering the questions and then tell me how you managed to do that without a brain to choose to do that.

what god? I am simply responding according to chemical reactions. I have no control over what I say. My brain works automatically according to whatever has ahaped it in the evironment from which it emerged out of a primordial soup My brain does not make me capable of free will,
You won't understand, but this makes you look as stupid as you present.
it simply fizzes in a chemical reaction responding to whatever input it gets.
Yes, and you can't allow yourself to even consider that because if you do you will end up in HELL. LOL
You are nothing but a randomly compiled group of molecules
Anybody silly enough to believe that my compilation of atoms is random should believe in a fairy godmother.
that somehow learned to replicate itself and improve into a god-like person who has abilities to manipulate the environment in your DNA driven desisre to keep itself going.
There was no learning involved, I do wish the uninformed who deny evolution would actually become informed before they make such fools of themselves.
When your DNA is done with you, it moves on to your chidren or it is easten and recycled to support other DNA. Is DNA the god you are referring to? Is there a god other than DNA?

Does this mean anything? FFS?

I'm trying to understand what you are talking about when you referr to a god.
A god or gods are the creation of men, long dead men, who created the god to explain what nobody knew and because the men could explain it then they gained great power over their fellow tribesmen.
If your compilation of atoms did not occur by random chance resulting in the emergence of DNA with it's desire to improve it's ability to reproduce, how did it occur?
Evolution explains how I am what I am. You are more than welcome to believe that Tinkerbell did it for you.
Was in intelligently designed?
Is your god LOVE? Explain the Jewel Wasp.
Are you implying a god planned the arrangement of your molecules? If not by chance of circumstances of the primordial soup and the surrounding enviroment, and if not by intelligent design, how are your molecules held together?
Your imaginary friend had nothing to do with reality. Just as your "thoughts" don't.

To be perfectly honest, I can't for the life of me continue to make fun of the rest of what you have to say.

You will never, ever, ever get the message.
You are an Indoctrinate, that is a new noun I have created.

If we talk to a religious person then we are within our rights to call them an indoctrinate.
As in.
You indoctrinate you!

message from who? message from you, from DNA, or from what? Is there a messenger? where did you get the message? how did you get the message? please indoctrinate me. my brain is trying to process this information to form responses, the chemicals are fizzing and making me ask you about this message you have. are you the god you are talking about? are you my god?
mortsdor
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10/14/2014 11:08:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 10:39:19 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
So everything you do, say, think, feel, and imagaine, is nothing more than a chemical reaction
Lots of physical reactions.

and we have no power to do anyting other than what our chemical reactions tell us to do.
The physical reactions don't tell us what to do. They are what we do (in the process of thinking), and lead to what we do (considered/ thought out actions... as well as less consciously considered ones).

There is no free will.

Depends on what you mean by free will.

Certainly our will is not some floaty thing disconnected from our thought process...
and our thought process is not some floaty thing that stands apart from causes.

However you will never run into a situation where reality Forces your will, rather your will flows forth (as it is) from Reality... and thus it's naturally in accordance with it.

it's determined, but it's not as though there's any imposition... it's just, given the nature of how you would choose (how you are), you'll end up choosing that which you would.

You're not Disconnected from your nature, therefore it can't restrict you.
Those deterministic processes which determine your actions, are your deterministic (thought) processes :o)

Case closed.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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10/14/2014 11:10:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we possess free will?

In my opinion we have free will. But I think free will does not mean that we can do whatever we want. It means just that we can want whatever we want.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/14/2014 11:14:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 5:26:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/14/2014 4:38:56 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:23:39 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:40:33 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I don't watch that video, but according to me:
Humen must have a limited freewill which has been granted by God.
If not, it would be pointless, God do test humen.

freewill: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

The fact that Story book god threatens everyone with dire consequences for not believing, proves no one has a freewill at all and a ' partial/limited ' freewill violates what a freewill is!


According to you,
do everyone have power to do everything?
Is everyman free to do everything?
Must everyone not have a respect to others?
If your answer 'yes', then you can not speak of that definition in WordWeb.
Has Allah written the life story of everybody before creation?

Love is a chemical reaction, a feeling produced by hormones energized by chemical reactions in response to the enviornment, nothing more than a mechanism of DNA to preserve itself as it evolves to develope more powerful means of self preservation.
as far as I can tell, DNA is the only thing that can be considered to be the god if you are not the god. You have no free will. If your chemical reactions push your buttons, you will respond to this post as they pushed you to do. If not, then they pushed different buttons to make you stop arguing with me. Fizzzzzzzzzzzz Fizzzzzzzz and away we go
mortsdor
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10/14/2014 11:19:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 11:08:10 AM, mortsdor wrote:
Those deterministic processes which determine your actions, are your deterministic (thought) processes :o)

you (/your nature) don't impose upon yourself by existing

you choose as you would.

whether you want to call natural, deterministic, care-based, well-thought out and considered, choice "free will" or not is really up to you.

if by "free" you mean supernaturally separated from Causes then yeah, determinism means no free will..

but I don't see why choice that's tied to what you care about is a problem.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/16/2014 12:45:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 3:14:07 AM, uncle-creepy wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

I'll have to watch that video.But to give you my answer to your question.

I think that we do have at least some degree of control over our present and future,mainly our individual present and future.If we didn't,we would not be capable of making decisions and we would,in essence,be robots that do only as we are instructed to by the agent of our creation.None of us would be able to seek out our true potential,purpose,or that which provides us with meaning and fulfillment (within reason,of course) if we were constrained by a figurative leash or had reins placed on us.I do feel that we all have a destiny but it ultimately comes down to the choice of whether we take a path that goes in that direction (whether it's the short or long way) or a path that will lead us elsewhere.There is that which is in our sphere of control and/or influence and that which is not in said sphere.Within that sphere of control and/ or influence,however,is probably more than what I could type out in a single post on here.While there is no guarantee that our choices will produce the sought after or favorable outcomes for us,our free will does give us plenty of allowance for us to achieve an end or to accomplish a goal.The beauty of free will is that,when it is used for the right reasons,it makes life fun and exciting and the path that one chooses to walk was not one that was forced or imposed upon them in a dictatorial fashion.

I'm assuming though that you're speaking of "we" as in humanity as a whole.Again,there are things within that aforementioned sphere of control and/or influence and things that just aren't.But,unlike individual free will,collective free will is much more complex .People have varying desires,aims,or intentions and not all of them are benevolent.Often times,an individual or a group using their free will inevitably affects other individuals or groups.This is why we have so many problems and a lot of suffering in our world.We bring a lot of it on ourselves by using free will to make decisions that,by and large,are counterproductive for ourselves as individuals and as a collective.But I'm also of the view that there are things that happen,or are yet to happen,that is the will of a higher power and is far outside the collective sphere of control and/or influence.But free will,I feel,is part of the divine will or else the intelligence,creativity,cognizance and conscientiousness that we human beings (most of us,anyway) are in possession of would be useless if divine will was forced upon us at every turn.

Actually I was speaking more about individual free will, but I enjoyed reading your response. If you do watch the video I'd be interested in your response to that, too. Hey, I'm only saying that our will is "free," right? I'm not saying that it's always wise. :P
Idealist
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10/16/2014 1:06:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 8:16:14 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

Free will is a matter of definition. While Sam Harris and other neuroscientists are correct in that we cannot "control" our next thought, we can control whether or not we choose to act on any given thought. Our actions are fully within our control. The next thought to pop into our head is not necessarily within our control. We do have free will in that we choose our actions. The motivation behind our actions are still open to debate...

I like this view, and pretty-much agree with it. It doesn't sound like you watched the video, though, huh? :P
Idealist
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10/16/2014 1:11:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 8:45:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we really control our present and future? Check-out this short video by actor Will Smith and see what you think: https://www.youtube.com...

You fizz according to the random combinations of your environment, and you have no free will. Every though, action, imagination, and word you engage in is determined by whatever is around you combining with the molecules of your body and brain. You have no choice in anything you do, it's all instinct which is nothing more than chemical reactions as your DVA attempts to prolong it's existence and abilty to replcate itself

So our lives are like a chemical reaction? You mix certain things together and the end result is guaranteed? I almost didn't sign on here because I wanted to play a game instead, but after a few moments thought I chose to do this. Of course according to you I had no choice, so the few moments I spent thinking about it were wasted. But then I had no choice but to waste those moments. This is in now way personal, but it always makes me feel really sad to think that some people might truly believe they are just pawns on a chessboard. I don't think that deep down inside any of us believe that, else they would never feel any sense of guilt or accomplishment, the thrill of success, etc. They would know that it was preordained.
Idealist
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10/16/2014 1:14:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 11:10:51 AM, 12_13 wrote:
At 10/11/2014 4:58:10 PM, Idealist wrote:
Do we possess free will?

In my opinion we have free will. But I think free will does not mean that we can do whatever we want. It means just that we can want whatever we want.

I think it means we can want whatever we want and we can choose from a set of possibilities. We can't choose to fly like superman or to breathe water like a fish, but we can choose to build airplanes and submarines, and which way to turn when exiting a building.