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Joseph Ratzinger is evil.

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/13/2010 8:35:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
All right, I am kind of obsessed about this issue, but for good reason.

According to the AP, Pope Benedict XVI did not defrock a priest who had confessed to tying up and raping minors. Uhm... Should the pope be tried and executed? Or would execution be too harsh?

Here is the smoking gun... http://www.debate.org... This is also in the article itself.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church,' according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature. 'The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations,' the Rev. Federico Lombardi said."

http://www.nytimes.com...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
badger
Posts: 11,793
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4/13/2010 8:42:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/13/2010 8:35:01 PM, Freeman wrote:
All right, I am kind of obsessed about this issue, but for good reason.


According to the AP, Pope Benedict XVI did not defrock a priest who had confessed to tying up and raping minors. Uhm... Should the pope be tried and executed? Or would execution be too harsh?

Here is the smoking gun... http://www.debate.org... This is also in the article itself.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church,' according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature. 'The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations,' the Rev. Federico Lombardi said."

http://www.nytimes.com...

You should assassinate him.
signature
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/13/2010 8:47:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/13/2010 8:35:01 PM, Freeman wrote:
All right, I am kind of obsessed about this issue, but for good reason.


(Correction) According to the AP, Pope Benedict XVI [delayed the defrocking of a priest by six years] who had confessed to tying up and raping minors. Uhm... Should the pope be tried and executed? Or would execution be too harsh?

Here is the smoking gun... http://www.debate.org... This is also in the article itself.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church,' according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature. 'The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations,' the Rev. Federico Lombardi said."

http://www.nytimes.com...

Correction
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/13/2010 8:49:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
i would only note that "not defrocking" isn't the same as advocating the specific actions taken or putting in a position of authority over children. murder seems a bit extreme :P

the error of ratzinger and all these other people in the church hierarchy is twofold:
1. they put the reputation of the church ahead of the welfare of individual children entrusted to them
2. they have little understanding of paedophilia (ie thinking a few months of counseling will cure someone)

the stupidity is readily apparent, the negligence, the misplaced priorities. evil not so much. imo.

and before you jump on me, no its not ok. its faaaaaaaar from ok. but hardly deserving of 5 threads or however many you've made on the topic.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Freeman
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4/13/2010 8:54:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/13/2010 8:49:08 PM, belle wrote:
i would only note that "not defrocking" isn't the same as advocating the specific actions taken or putting in a position of authority over children. murder seems a bit extreme :P

Uhm... I think this is the fourth thread. And the only person that suggested murder was badger.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/13/2010 8:58:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/13/2010 8:54:36 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/13/2010 8:49:08 PM, belle wrote:
i would only note that "not defrocking" isn't the same as advocating the specific actions taken or putting in a position of authority over children. murder seems a bit extreme :P

Uhm... I think this is the fourth thread. And the only person that suggested murder was badger.

sorry. execution. not murder. point stands. also i was just guessing at the number of threads. surprised i got so close!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/13/2010 9:01:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think that this is a classic example of the question:

If a person is has the means and opportunity to prevent the harm of others but chooses not to should that person be held partially responsible for the harm.

Actually nevermind, as I type this I realize that more than just inaction happened in this case.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/14/2010 4:40:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I really hoped that this is pursued to its maximum possible extent, if the Pope was even forced to abdicate (they dont use that term) on this issue then that would be awesome.

The reputation of the roman catholic church needs to be utterly destroyed in order that Priests will start reporting these crimes to the police.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/15/2010 3:18:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/13/2010 8:35:01 PM, Freeman wrote:
All right, I am kind of obsessed about this issue, but for good reason.


According to the AP, Pope Benedict XVI did not defrock a priest who had confessed to tying up and raping minors. Uhm... Should the pope be tried and executed? Or would execution be too harsh?

Here is the smoking gun... http://www.debate.org... This is also in the article itself.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church,' according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature. 'The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations,' the Rev. Federico Lombardi said."

http://www.nytimes.com...

WHO ISN'T:

Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

9.Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Every time anyone points the finger and says " BAD! " we are really pointing at ourselves and saying " GOOD! "

This is self-righteousness and is all we have if we do not have real righteousness in Christ.

This all began in the garden of eden as soon as they fell from grace: (proper relationship with God)

Genesis 3:8-13 (New International Version)

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

It's called shifting the burden.

None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/15/2010 3:18:40 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/13/2010 8:35:01 PM, Freeman wrote:
All right, I am kind of obsessed about this issue, but for good reason.


According to the AP, Pope Benedict XVI did not defrock a priest who had confessed to tying up and raping minors. Uhm... Should the pope be tried and executed? Or would execution be too harsh?

Here is the smoking gun... http://www.debate.org... This is also in the article itself.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church,' according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature. 'The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations,' the Rev. Federico Lombardi said."

http://www.nytimes.com...

WHO ISN'T:

Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

9.Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Every time anyone points the finger and says " BAD! " we are really pointing at ourselves and saying " GOOD! "

This is self-righteousness and is all we have if we do not have real righteousness in Christ.


This all began in the garden of eden as soon as they fell from grace: (proper relationship with God)

Genesis 3:8-13 (New International Version)

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

It's called shifting the burden.

None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/20/2010 4:01:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.

So you seriously think it is self-righteous and wrong for criticising a man who protected paedophiles and facilitated the abuse of children?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/26/2010 10:06:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 4:01:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.


So you seriously think it is self-righteous and wrong for criticising a man who protected paedophiles and facilitated the abuse of children?

I seriously KNOW you are being self-righteous: the world is a horrible place.. man is innately evil.. grow up.
The Cross.. the Cross.
cutebunny43
Posts: 296
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4/26/2010 10:08:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.
Mafia for Beginners Signup Now

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DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/26/2010 10:11:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 10:08:09 AM, cutebunny43 wrote:
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.



they say imitation is the greatest form of flattery, so thanks! (jcmt)
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/26/2010 2:27:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 10:06:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/20/2010 4:01:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.


So you seriously think it is self-righteous and wrong for criticising a man who protected paedophiles and facilitated the abuse of children?

I seriously KNOW you are being self-righteous: the world is a horrible place.. man is innately evil.. grow up.

So you have never expressed condemnation for a paedophile or some such? You really need to explain why pointing out mans innate evil is wrong, despite the fact you are happy to do so.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/27/2010 3:28:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 2:27:46 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 10:06:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/20/2010 4:01:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.


So you seriously think it is self-righteous and wrong for criticising a man who protected paedophiles and facilitated the abuse of children?

I seriously KNOW you are being self-righteous: the world is a horrible place.. man is innately evil.. grow up.

So you have never expressed condemnation for a paedophile or some such? You really need to explain why pointing out mans innate evil is wrong, despite the fact you are happy to do so.

Because I am a 'sinner saved by the grace of God' and I do not make personal judgments but simply state Gods word to the best of my ability.
I am CHRIST-righteous NOT SELF-righteous; search your own heart, try to see if any of what I am saying is true for you..

Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."


God is inviting you.. calling you.. walk in the light so that you may be CHOSEN!
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/27/2010 3:36:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 3:28:09 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/26/2010 2:27:46 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 10:06:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/20/2010 4:01:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/20/2010 3:09:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/15/2010 3:37:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
None of you are going to be called to give an account of the Popes sins.

Just your own.

Thank you for defending child rape.
*YOU bad ME good!*

No, just attacking your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, because without Christ you have nothing else.


So you seriously think it is self-righteous and wrong for criticising a man who protected paedophiles and facilitated the abuse of children?

I seriously KNOW you are being self-righteous: the world is a horrible place.. man is innately evil.. grow up.

So you have never expressed condemnation for a paedophile or some such? You really need to explain why pointing out mans innate evil is wrong, despite the fact you are happy to do so.

Because I am a 'sinner saved by the grace of God'

But you are not are you? You violate the commandments nearly every time you post and generally give the impression you are not very secure in your faith.

and I do not make personal judgments but simply state Gods word to the best of my ability.

You make personal judgements constantly.

I am CHRIST-righteous NOT SELF-righteous; search your own heart, try to see if any of what I am saying is true for you..

No, nothing you say ever has a ring of truth about it. So do you prepose that atheists are unable to condemn or pass any sort of judgement. If I see someone being raped am I just to say "well I can't express an opinion on that, it would be self-righteous of me as I am not in Christ".
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/4/2010 8:34:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 3:36:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Because I am a 'sinner saved by the grace of God'

But you are not are you? You violate the commandments nearly every time you post and generally give the impression you are not very secure in your faith.
I won't waste my time on repeating a teaching I've already taught; keep using that light to deceive and you will lose it FOREVER.
and I do not make personal judgments but simply state Gods word to the best of my ability.

You make personal judgements constantly.
One more unsubstantiated assertion.
I am CHRIST-righteous NOT SELF-righteous; search your own heart, try to see if any of what I am saying is true for you..

No, nothing you say ever has a ring of truth about it. So do you prepose that atheists are unable to condemn or pass any sort of judgement. If I see someone being raped am I just to say "well I can't express an opinion on that, it would be self-righteous of me as I am not in Christ".
Ok, by the light that you have (been given!) you judge that rape is wrong.. BUT by the same light you continually attempt to deceive me (attempt being the operative word!) why should I trust YOUR light?

do you see? or do you need a little more light?

John 1:8-10
7.John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.John 3:18-20 (in Context) John 3
8.John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."John 8:11-13
9.John 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."John 9:4-6 (in Context) John 9 (Whole Chapter)
10.John 11:9
Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.
John 11:8-10 (in Context) John 11 (Whole Chapter)
11.John 12:46
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/4/2010 8:47:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 8:34:36 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 4/27/2010 3:36:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Because I am a 'sinner saved by the grace of God'

But you are not are you? You violate the commandments nearly every time you post and generally give the impression you are not very secure in your faith.
I won't waste my time on repeating a teaching I've already taught; keep using that light to deceive and you will lose it FOREVER.
and I do not make personal judgments but simply state Gods word to the best of my ability.

You make personal judgements constantly.
One more unsubstantiated assertion.
I am CHRIST-righteous NOT SELF-righteous; search your own heart, try to see if any of what I am saying is true for you..

No, nothing you say ever has a ring of truth about it. So do you prepose that atheists are unable to condemn or pass any sort of judgement. If I see someone being raped am I just to say "well I can't express an opinion on that, it would be self-righteous of me as I am not in Christ".
Ok, by the light that you have (been given!) you judge that rape is wrong.. BUT by the same light you continually attempt to deceive me (attempt being the operative word!) why should I trust YOUR light?

do you see? or do you need a little more light?


What deception? Why have you evaded my question?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
JustCallMeTarzan
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5/4/2010 7:37:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Because that's how DAT works... shouting fro the pulpit until he gets asked a question, and then hiding under the carpet with his tail tucked. Making outrageous claims and self-righteous proclamations, but to cowardly to actually rise to the challenge of a simple debate.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/5/2010 3:22:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:37:07 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Because that's how DAT works... shouting fro the pulpit until he gets asked a question, and then hiding under the carpet with his tail tucked. Making outrageous claims and self-righteous proclamations, but to cowardly to actually rise to the challenge of a simple debate.

Oh I've risen and defeated you as we both well know.. you, on the other hand, have lost the will to even discuss theology with me; as I have personally demolished all of your tired old cut n' paste arguments that you were so fond of wheeling out time and again..

You lost it when you put you're hope in that other has-been; Kleptin.. he, of course, assasinated his own character with the 'wench campaign'.. *wistful nostalgic sigh*

toodle pip..
The Cross.. the Cross.