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"Imposing your Beliefs"

Conservative101
Posts: 191
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10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people. They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms, have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects", and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality. They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/15/2014 9:10:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

Here's the reason My people are confused;

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,117
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10/15/2014 9:36:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people. They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms, have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects", and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality. They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.

+1
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Conservative101
Posts: 191
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10/15/2014 9:40:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people.

Theists are? It seems to me most religious people oppose abortion. I think this is more of a political issue than a religious one.

They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms,

If you take a world history class, you learn about ancient civilizations and the deities they believed in and religion they practiced. So I don't see how this is a problem, seeing how everyone has to learn about mythology at one point or another. Most religious folk these days are polytheists, whereas mythology focuses more on the plurality of gods. So I don't see why they would push for this class to be taken, because it's not like anyone's suddenly going to become religious from studying mythology.

have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects",

Like crosses? It's not like we should go around tearing crosses down, that's violation of public property. Other than that I'm not sure what you're referring to.

and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality.

Such as?

They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

Haven't heard about this before. What kind of message would an atheist want to put on public lands?

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.

I think a lot of confusion is centered around "imposing views" versus "expressing views".
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/15/2014 10:06:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 9:40:45 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:

I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people.

Theists are? It seems to me most religious people oppose abortion.
That's why they seek to pass legislation against it. "passing legislation on" isn't synonymous with permitting it.

I think this is more of a political issue than a religious one.
It is founded in religious beliefs, and passed to politics, in the hope of making it a judicial issue. And all of that is contrary to the separation of church and state.


They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms,

If you take a world history class, you learn about ancient civilizations and the deities they believed in and religion they practiced. So I don't see how this is a problem, seeing how everyone has to learn about mythology at one point or another. Most religious folk these days are polytheists, whereas mythology focuses more on the plurality of gods. So I don't see why they would push for this class to be taken, because it's not like anyone's suddenly going to become religious from studying mythology.
The problem is that they're seeking to have their mythology taught as science.

have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects",

Like crosses? It's not like we should go around tearing crosses down, that's violation of public property. Other than that I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Treating a venerated object in a manner deemed "disrespectful", in a matter which doesn't produce harm to the object, will get you arrested in some jurisdictions, because certain objects are provided extra legal protection because "some" people, consider them to be special or sacred. Property is property. It should all be subject to the same level of protection, on the same secular grounds.

and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality.

Such as?
Such as the belief that their beliefs should enjoy the right to be displayed on public grounds, but competing views should not. Such as the belief that their values should replace the values defined as the foundation of the country. Such as the belief that their religious standards should be imposed upon those who do not hold their religious beliefs.

They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

Haven't heard about this before. What kind of message would an atheist want to put on public lands?
(See video)

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.

I think a lot of confusion is centered around "imposing views" versus "expressing views".
And I have no problem with expressing views. I'm an advocate of expressing views. But imposing views is a violation of rights.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/16/2014 6:38:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

When was the last time a pair of atheists knocked on your door and asked you to deconvert?

Do you remember walking through an airport and being accosted by a group of chanting atheists dressed in robes?

Have you heard of atheist missionaries posted to some remote corner of the world for the purpose of disabusing the natives of their traditional beliefs and cultural practices?

If you answer in the negative to the above then you will understand the difference between expressing an opinion and having beliefs imposed on you.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/16/2014 8:48:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 9:40:45 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people.

Theists are? It seems to me most religious people oppose abortion. I think this is more of a political issue than a religious one.

They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms,

If you take a world history class, you learn about ancient civilizations and the deities they believed in and religion they practiced. So I don't see how this is a problem, seeing how everyone has to learn about mythology at one point or another. Most religious folk these days are polytheists, whereas mythology focuses more on the plurality of gods. So I don't see why they would push for this class to be taken, because it's not like anyone's suddenly going to become religious from studying mythology.

have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects",

Like crosses? It's not like we should go around tearing crosses down, that's violation of public property. Other than that I'm not sure what you're referring to.

and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality.

Such as?

They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

Haven't heard about this before. What kind of message would an atheist want to put on public lands?

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.

I think a lot of confusion is centered around "imposing views" versus "expressing views".

This is why both atheists and religious people are confused in this make-believe world;

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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10/16/2014 11:03:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 9:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/15/2014 8:45:52 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I've noticed that some atheists accuse theists and religious folk of "imposing their beliefs" on them. Yet, I often see atheists say "there is no afterlife. When we die, nothing happens." But isn't that imposing your beliefs on others? Why is it not okay for Christians to tell people there's a heaven but okay for atheists to say there isn't? Isn't that hypocritical?

I don't really care if someone tells me what they believe and suggests that I should, likewise, believe the same thing. But I do have a rather substantial problem with people who will try to legislate their beliefs. And where I live (the U.S.), this has gotten completely out of hand. Theists have passed standards for what can, and can't be broadcast on radio and television, with no regard for the 1st Amendment which is supposed to protect freedom of speech.

They attempt to pass legislation on abortion, have erected obstructions to medical research on the false belief that stem-cell research is somehow preventing human eggs from becoming people. They've tried many times to force mythology into science classrooms, have passed laws placing additional restrictions on behaviors deemed acceptable around "venerated objects", and have demonstrated a distinct elitist, bigoted view where the country was founded on the idea of equality. They have taken cases to court where atheists groups have sought permission to erect atheist messages on public lands where Christians have erected nativity scenes, and the Christians have screamed like scalded cats.

So believe whatever you wish. But the moment you react on those beliefs in any way which adversely affects others, you've crossed the line and deserved to be put in your place.

+1
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/16/2014 11:32:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but that Adams quote bothers me, especially when John said this.

"Government has no right to hurt the hair of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his Practices."

-Letter to John Quincy Adams
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,117
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10/16/2014 11:45:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:32:20 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Adams quote bothers me, especially when John said this.

"Government has no right to hurt the hair of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his Practices."

-Letter to John Quincy Adams

What bothers you about it? The government shouldn't be bothering anyone for opinions. It's actions that affect the rights of others that are important.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/16/2014 12:32:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:45:10 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/16/2014 11:32:20 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Adams quote bothers me, especially when John said this.

"Government has no right to hurt the hair of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his Practices."

-Letter to John Quincy Adams

What bothers you about it? The government shouldn't be bothering anyone for opinions. It's actions that affect the rights of others that are important.

Which is what I get from that quote. Some people who thinks that the religious are only protected by constitution, means they can try to silence atheists who aren't religious.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,117
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10/16/2014 1:26:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 12:32:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/16/2014 11:45:10 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/16/2014 11:32:20 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Adams quote bothers me, especially when John said this.

"Government has no right to hurt the hair of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his Practices."

-Letter to John Quincy Adams

What bothers you about it? The government shouldn't be bothering anyone for opinions. It's actions that affect the rights of others that are important.

Which is what I get from that quote. Some people who thinks that the religious are only protected by constitution, means they can try to silence atheists who aren't religious.

Yea, all they're doing is pissing off atheists.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten