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The Qur'an

Mirza
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4/14/2010 2:56:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Since we usually see that other people quote the Qur'an and use it to back-up their claims about it being a bad, violent book, I thought that it would be a good idea to post some videos of Qur'anic recitals, where some explain interesting things, others the message of Islam itself.

-------------------

The first video is not a recital of the Qur'an, but the Islamic call of prayer. Five times a day, the imam at a mosque calls people to prayer this way. Interesting to read: http://jugnoo.wordpress.com...

The second video is a recital of the first chapter of the Qur'an. It is also a du'aa (supplication), with a beautiful prayer. It introduces the Qur'an briefly in a manner that makes one think about God, since it mentions praising Him etc.

The third video is about the Event, where we will all be taking account of what we have earned. It explains who will go Paradise, and what they will find in it. It mentions that there will be no discriminating speech (like backbiting, slander), which is a key feature in the pureness of Paradise with regards to hearts. It also mentions who will go to Hell, and what it will be like.

The fourth video is the recital of the chapter called 'Ar Rahman', meaning 'The Beneficent'. It mentions the sentence "Which is it, of the favors of your Lord, that you deny?" as a reminded to us to think about what we are denying about the message. It describes a bit of Paradise, and also God's creation in general.

The fifth video is a recital of the chapter called 'Yaseen', and that chapter is considered to be the heart of the Qur'an. Only a part of it is recited in this video. This video has no subtitles of the translation, but the point is to show how amazing the Qur'an is even when recited by such a young kid, and how easy it is to memorize.

The sixth video is a recital of a chapter that speaks about the day when the earth starts to shake, and mankind realizes that the Truth is clear.

The seventh video recites a chapter about the Day of Judgement. It addresses non-Muslims and what will happen to them in the Hereafter. The full video of the same chapter is right under that one.

The ninth video is the recital of the chapter called 'Al-Qamar', meaning 'The Moon'. The noticeable thing is the beginning, namely the first verse. It says, "The Hour has come near, and the moon has split." This can mean a few things. One is that it can mean that it was either split as a sign for mankind during the era of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and then put back in full, or that it will be split when the Day of Judgement is about to come. However, NASA has also discovered that there is a great rift/line across the moon that seems like the moon was as good as split. There is a picture of that: http://www.smashinglists.com...

-------------------

These videos are not here for any bad purposes. If somebody has something to say, then they can say it in a respectful manner. There is no need to be disrespectful. This is merely for explaining some of the messages of the Qur'an, and I will probably create similar threads from time to time.

As one may see in these videos, the message of the Qur'an is extraordinary. It is recited in many different ways, and it is as peaceful as possible. It is a book of a clear message, and also a challenging one. Through the Qur'an, we see first that it challenges mankind to gather together and produce a book like the Qur'an, and none is able to do it. It then set the limit to ten chapters, and nobody is able to do it. Later, is says that we cannot even produce one chapter as good as one of the Qur'an. Then is said that we cannot even produce something 'somewhat similar' to a chapter of the Qur'an. No poets in older times, nor those today, can produce a book like the Qur'an. It even challenges makes it clear that it will never be changed, and nobody has the power to do it. It is structured perfectly in literature that the Arabic grammar was taken from the Qur'an, since it was far more advanced than any other texts, and still is today. It has not one single verse that contradicts one single established scientific fact, nor its own verse. It is also numerically/mathematically structured, which makes it harder for people to change it.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Mirza
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4/14/2010 3:55:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."
Do you want me to quote similar verse from the Qur'an? Even some far superior to those. As for war, we Muslims only go to war in self-defense.
Mirza
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4/14/2010 3:58:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."
In fact, those words seem to come from one who has not read the Qur'an.

Even Jainists are allowed to go to war in self-defense. I challenge you to find a verse in the Qur'an telling Muslims to lead aggressive wars towards others. I have refuted each and every statement that has quote a verse from the Qur'an, appearing to be violent against non-Muslims.
Freeman
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4/14/2010 4:12:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 3:58:39 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."
In fact, those words seem to come from one who has not read the Qur'an.

Even Jainists are allowed to go to war in self-defense. I challenge you to find a verse in the Qur'an telling Muslims to lead aggressive wars towards others. I have refuted each and every statement that has quote a verse from the Qur'an, appearing to be violent against non-Muslims.

Quran verse 4:34:

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" -Rodwell
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Mirza
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4/14/2010 4:13:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Since this violence thing has been brought up, I will explain it briefly.

'Islam' itself derives from the Arabic word 'salama' which means 'peace'. It also means 'submission to God'. When the Qur'an speaks about killing enemies, it does not say that except in a context of war. For instance, if a verse says, "Then slay them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them...", it is misquoted. It needs to be quoted in context. Either before or after that verse, it will say that if the enemy does not want peace and leads a war.
Mirza
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4/14/2010 4:17:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:12:16 PM, Freeman wrote:
Quran verse 4:34:

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" -Rodwell

The 'Rodwell' translation is not widely used. If you know Arabic, you will realize that the word 'superior' is not even found in that verse. Let me quote the proper translation:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

Firstly, it says protectors, not 'superior'. Men have been given more strength than women, and are their protectors. Few religion give this honoring to women as being protected by men. Moreover, take a look at my latest comments on that verse here: http://www.debate.org...

It explains very well what the 'light-beat' means, too.
Mirza
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4/14/2010 4:20:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I can give you tons of references where women are given more honoring and respect than men in some areas, such as the role of being mothers. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said that Paradise lies under a mother's feet. Which religion gives this honor to women? Either none or few. Islam is definitely the one. Men are respected as those who protect their families, and those who work to earn some food for their family.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/14/2010 4:24:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.

Yea, they mean literally any living being.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/14/2010 4:25:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.
Regarding this 'kill no living being'-thing, it is illogical since plants are also alive, but have fewer senses than animals and humans.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/14/2010 4:33:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:17:53 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:12:16 PM, Freeman wrote:
Quran verse 4:34:

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" -Rodwell

The 'Rodwell' translation is not widely used. If you know Arabic, you will realize that the word 'superior' is not even found in that verse. Let me quote the proper translation:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

Firstly, it says protectors, not 'superior'. Men have been given more strength than women, and are their protectors. Few religion give this honoring to women as being protected by men. Moreover, take a look at my latest comments on that verse here: http://www.debate.org...

It explains very well what the 'light-beat' means, too.

The translation that you use really doesn't help your case, it is just less bad.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Mirza
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4/14/2010 4:36:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:33:09 PM, Korashk wrote:
The translation that you use really doesn't help your case, it is just less bad.
It does. The 'light-beating' has been explained clearly, and the protector part is something I do not even have to explain. It says itself that men are protectors of women, because God has given them more strength. Moreover, I think you should just read my comments on that debate.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/14/2010 4:39:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Qur'an addresses this issue of misquoting and wrong interpretations of the verses that are intended to make Islam look bad.

[Qur'an 3:78] "There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!"

14 centuries ago was this revealed, and even today, this verse helps us knowing that we witness false claims, and encourages us to look away from them and refute them.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/14/2010 5:09:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.

Are you a speciesist, popculturepooka?
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/14/2010 5:10:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:09:47 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.

Are you a speciesist, popculturepooka?

You consider yourself on par with a fly?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/14/2010 5:16:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
zZZZzZZZZZZZZZZz

Who cares if there are some peaceful or well-written things in the Qur'an? There are peaceful and beautiful passages in the Bible too, but that doesn't make Christianity real or any more valid/significant. The reality is that there is violence in all Abrahamic books, and then they preach about peace and non-violence. Very funny if you ask me.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/14/2010 5:17:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:39:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
The Qur'an addresses this issue of misquoting and wrong interpretations of the verses that are intended to make Islam look bad.

[Qur'an 3:78] "There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!"

14 centuries ago was this revealed, and even today, this verse helps us knowing that we witness false claims, and encourages us to look away from them and refute them.

Haha that's convenient! How do you know what Allah said and what Allah didn't say? If you weren't there to witness it, then all you're really doing is listening to 2 guys say "Allah said this" or "Allah said that" and then pick which you like better and attribute it to Allah.
President of DDO
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/14/2010 5:18:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:16:22 PM, theLwerd wrote:
zZZZzZZZZZZZZZZz

Who cares if there are some peaceful or well-written things in the Qur'an? There are peaceful and beautiful passages in the Bible too

That's why I prefer the KJV. Who cares about accuracy, it can be a gorgeous read in places.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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4/14/2010 5:22:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

So, when my body heats up to kill the bacteria that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral? Or when I shoot a bear that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral?
Or when a murderer swings a bat at me, trying to kill me, and I punch him in the throat, knocking him out, I'm immoral?
Sounds great. I guess I'll just die, then.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/14/2010 5:24:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:25:34 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.
Regarding this 'kill no living being'-thing, it is illogical since plants are also alive, but have fewer senses than animals and humans.

... Plants can sense predators, respond to tactile cues, recognize different wavelengths of light, listen to chemical signals, "talk" through chemical signals, avoid predators, produce chemicals to fight prey (as well as pluck carbon from the air and forge defenses), "howl" or send sound waves to other plants, etc. Also, as you probably know, plants are conscious. So, they're conscious beings with at least known senses of touch, sight, hearing and speech... yet conveniently, being "alive" doesn't apply to them hahahaha.
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/14/2010 5:25:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:22:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

So, when my body heats up to kill the bacteria that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral? Or when I shoot a bear that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral?
Or when a murderer swings a bat at me, trying to kill me, and I punch him in the throat, knocking him out, I'm immoral?
Sounds great. I guess I'll just die, then.

I'm not an expert, but i'm pretty sure Jains can kill, but strictly only in self-defense. If a bear is trying to kill you I'm sure you could fight back in self-defense.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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4/14/2010 5:27:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:25:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:22:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

So, when my body heats up to kill the bacteria that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral? Or when I shoot a bear that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral?
Or when a murderer swings a bat at me, trying to kill me, and I punch him in the throat, knocking him out, I'm immoral?
Sounds great. I guess I'll just die, then.

I'm not an expert, but i'm pretty sure Jains can kill, but strictly only in self-defense. If a bear is trying to kill you I'm sure you could fight back in self-defense.

Then he's already contradicted himself.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/14/2010 5:28:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 4:36:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:33:09 PM, Korashk wrote:
The translation that you use really doesn't help your case, it is just less bad.
It does. The 'light-beating' has been explained clearly, and the protector part is something I do not even have to explain. It says itself that men are protectors of women, because God has given them more strength. Moreover, I think you should just read my comments on that debate.

You remind me of the Christian Fundamentalists that I argue against on Facebook. I read your response to on the debate and it was basocally just, "Men aren't supposed to actually hurt them with their punishment." In a free society disobedience to your spouse in general is not cause for punishment. Period.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/14/2010 5:29:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:22:54 PM, mongeese wrote:

Lulz you should talk! You follow the Bible which says it's okay to not only kill someone simply for not believing in your god, but also to kill everything related to them (relatives, pets, etc.) and that it's okay to destroy their property. The Bible also says a sh-t tone of other backwards, hypocritical and of course retarded things.
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Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/14/2010 5:37:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:10:48 PM, Puck wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:09:47 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.

Are you a speciesist, popculturepooka?

You consider yourself on par with a fly?

No...

As far as I know, flies don't have anywhere near the same cognitive capacities as humans, nor do they have the same capacity to suffer as humans.

You simply don't understand what the concept of speciesism entails. http://www.animal-rights-library.com...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/14/2010 5:40:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:37:13 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:10:48 PM, Puck wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:09:47 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 4:21:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

"Any creature or living being"? Nah, I'm good.

Are you a speciesist, popculturepooka?

You consider yourself on par with a fly?

No...

As far as I know, flies don't have anywhere near the same cognitive capacities as humans, nor do they have the same capacity to suffer as humans.

You simply don't understand what the concept of speciesism entails. http://www.animal-rights-library.com...

The only relevance is to Jainaism - which posits exactly that.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/14/2010 5:42:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/14/2010 5:27:11 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:25:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/14/2010 5:22:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/14/2010 3:51:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/14/2010 2:59:41 PM, Mirza wrote:
I forgot the link. This is the ninth video.

Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, produced more ethical wisdom in a single sentence than what can be found in the Bible or the Qur'an: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."

So, when my body heats up to kill the bacteria that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral? Or when I shoot a bear that's trying to kill me, I'm immoral?
Or when a murderer swings a bat at me, trying to kill me, and I punch him in the throat, knocking him out, I'm immoral?
Sounds great. I guess I'll just die, then.

I'm not an expert, but i'm pretty sure Jains can kill, but strictly only in self-defense. If a bear is trying to kill you I'm sure you could fight back in self-defense.

Then he's already contradicted himself.

The wisdom of a precept, or set of precepts, isn't to be found in its dogmatic application. As a Christian you probably understand this. Presumably, you've never stoned any women to death who weren't virgins.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright