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Faith supercedes knowledge

DPMartin
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10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.
KafkaF
Posts: 103
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10/17/2014 4:43:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

What does this have to do with anything?
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/17/2014 4:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

First, I think you are confusing faith with confidence.

Second, if faith is the way to knowledge, can one "faith" unicorns into existence? Fairies? Zeus? Ra? Making blind assertions "from your gut" never ends well when you are in a discussion with those that require evidence for their beliefs...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/17/2014 5:10:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It's always a good time "laughathon," when someone makes an attempt to "reason" how faith is superior to reason... The definition of faith is completely ignored, as is the definition of reason, and the "explanation" always turns out to be a non-sequitur barrage of irrational assertions. Thank you, DPM. I needed a good laugh at the tail end of a Friday. I can now begin my weekend with a smile.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
SNP1
Posts: 2,406
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10/17/2014 5:17:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:55:09 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

First, I think you are confusing faith with confidence.

Second, if faith is the way to knowledge, can one "faith" unicorns into existence? Fairies? Zeus? Ra? Making blind assertions "from your gut" never ends well when you are in a discussion with those that require evidence for their beliefs...

+1
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
KafkaF
Posts: 103
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10/17/2014 5:19:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:43:38 PM, KafkaF wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

What does this have to do with anything?

BTW, I didn't mean to sound condescending, I legitemately did not understand what you wanted to say, and I am asking you to clarify.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.
DPMartin
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10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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10/17/2014 8:53:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

Ummmmmmm fairy tales? amiright?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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10/17/2014 10:09:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

When he reached the summit, it was no longer 'faith', but an actuality. They took pictures! Will you ever have anything other than faith to show as evidence your god exists?

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

On this we agree.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/17/2014 10:18:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It requires no "faith" to fly in a plane. Even the Wright Brothers had evidence their plane should fly. Have you never seen a plane flying? Do you lack even a basic understanding of aerodynamics? Have you never grasped the axle of a bicycle wheel, and spun the wheel? Are you devoid of the knowledge of gyroscopic effect? These are all forms of evidence which negate your claim that faith is at all necessary for any of these activities.

If someone showed you a cardboard box with a lawn chair inside, and told you to be seated and that the box would lift into the air and transport you home, THEN faith would be employed because there is no evidence that the box would be able to fly, lift you, or take you anywhere (unless a tornado was on the horizon).
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/18/2014 5:17:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

It's not really faith, I mean, after all it is a mountain, and you have plenty of evidence that mountains can be climbed. You also prepare yourself to climb it, and probably end up having confidence that you will get to the summit or close to it. You don't climb a mountain based on "faith", people generaly value their lifes, so they rarely do anything dangerous (or anything at all) based on faith, except believing in God.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/18/2014 5:55:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

No one should have faith in anything. Trust is fine. Confidence is fine when supported by evidence. But faith is simply believing in that for which you have to cause to believe.

Trust is built up over time, based on evidence. You tend to trust friends and family because the bulk of your experience (evidence), for them suggests that they are trustworthy. You might have confidence in your abilities, based on your evidence and knowledge of your abilities. But a quadriplegic shouldn't believe they can successfully engage in free-hand extreme rock-climbing.

Edmund Hillary had a very significant degree of climbing experience and he didn't start with 29,000-foot peaks. Like most people, he started much smaller and gained experience and confidence, based on the evidence he gathered.

How is it that so many people can hold beliefs on faith, and still not understand what faith is?

If you believed you could jump from the top of the Empire State building and fall all of the way to the ground without injury, THAT would be faith - a belief for which you have no evidence.

If you believe you can walk onto an airport tarmac and single-handedly lift an Airbus A380 off of the ground, THAT would be faith. You have no evidence to support the belief, so if you hold that belief anyway - despite the lack of supporting evidence - then you have faith.

You have no evidence that God exists, no evidence for the existence of the spirit, the afterlife, Heaven, Hell, Satan, etc. But you still believe they exist. So those beliefs are beliefs of faith.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/18/2014 8:59:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Faith has nothing to do with believing. Faith means you know our Creator after His first visit within the mind that's invisible to us humans. Our mind is His mind where we all exist as knowledge ( His thoughts ), also known as the Word of the Lord.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/18/2014 9:05:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Readers can rest assured that like MCB, BOG is also a proven LIAR!

I wrote to the Pastor Tracy where BOG goes begging for handouts and she replied confirming that BOG's claims were false!

Fortunately for us all, BOG tells us that we won't have to put up with his lies & psychotic BS much longer!
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/18/2014 10:18:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 5:17:15 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

It's not really faith, I mean, after all it is a mountain, and you have plenty of evidence that mountains can be climbed. You also prepare yourself to climb it, and probably end up having confidence that you will get to the summit or close to it. You don't climb a mountain based on "faith", people generaly value their lifes, so they rarely do anything dangerous (or anything at all) based on faith, except believing in God.

I would disagree.
You still have to have faith (belief and or trust) to do anything you haven"t done before. You might base it on seeing others do it, being told by some one you trust that you can do it, (having faith in what that trusted person says) afer it has happened you know therefore its not faith anymore.

The word faith in English is I. Belief, trust, confidence.

1. a. Confidence, reliance, trust (in the ability, goodness, etc., of a person; in the efficacy or worth of a thing; or in the truth of a statement or doctrine).

b. Belief proceeding from reliance on testimony or authority.

What one believes or places their trust in, before they act on what it is they are trusting.

So if one has to see some else do it before they do, then that"s their faith. But if they don"t see some do it first, they don"t have the faith to do it and will never know it.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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10/18/2014 11:01:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:18:47 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/18/2014 5:17:15 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 6:04:40 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/17/2014 5:35:34 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

But if you have any proof that the airplane will fly, that you will ride the bicycle, that you can walk on two feet or that mount everest can be climbed, it is no longer faith. Faith means believing without evidence, which is not smart at all imho.

Well, didn"t Edmund Hillary have faith (believe/trust) that he could reach the summit? No one else reached the summit. So he didn"t know the summit until he followed through on what he had the faith to do.

But maybe what one should be concerned about is, what should one place faith in, or on.

It's not really faith, I mean, after all it is a mountain, and you have plenty of evidence that mountains can be climbed. You also prepare yourself to climb it, and probably end up having confidence that you will get to the summit or close to it. You don't climb a mountain based on "faith", people generaly value their lifes, so they rarely do anything dangerous (or anything at all) based on faith, except believing in God.

I would disagree.
You still have to have faith (belief and or trust) to do anything you haven"t done before. You might base it on seeing others do it, being told by some one you trust that you can do it, (having faith in what that trusted person says) afer it has happened you know therefore its not faith anymore.

The word faith in English is I. Belief, trust, confidence.

1. a. Confidence, reliance, trust (in the ability, goodness, etc., of a person; in the efficacy or worth of a thing; or in the truth of a statement or doctrine).

b. Belief proceeding from reliance on testimony or authority.



What one believes or places their trust in, before they act on what it is they are trusting.

So if one has to see some else do it before they do, then that"s their faith. But if they don"t see some do it first, they don"t have the faith to do it and will never know it.

Faith:
1 Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2 Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

I higlighted the applicable definition I understand faith to be, especially in relation to god. When climbing mountains, flying airplanes or riding motorcycles, the type of 'faith' needed is a lesser version than the type of faith needed to believe in god. We have evidence aspects of your examples are possible and even probable. God is another matter.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/18/2014 2:00:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 10:18:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It requires no "faith" to fly in a plane. Even the Wright Brothers had evidence their plane should fly. Have you never seen a plane flying? Do you lack even a basic understanding of aerodynamics? Have you never grasped the axle of a bicycle wheel, and spun the wheel? Are you devoid of the knowledge of gyroscopic effect? These are all forms of evidence which negate your claim that faith is at all necessary for any of these activities.

If someone showed you a cardboard box with a lawn chair inside, and told you to be seated and that the box would lift into the air and transport you home, THEN faith would be employed because there is no evidence that the box would be able to fly, lift you, or take you anywhere (unless a tornado was on the horizon).

Even then, it would not be the box doing any transporting, but the force of air current lifting both the box and its contents (you, seated in the chair).
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/18/2014 2:13:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 2:00:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 10/17/2014 10:18:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It requires no "faith" to fly in a plane. Even the Wright Brothers had evidence their plane should fly. Have you never seen a plane flying? Do you lack even a basic understanding of aerodynamics? Have you never grasped the axle of a bicycle wheel, and spun the wheel? Are you devoid of the knowledge of gyroscopic effect? These are all forms of evidence which negate your claim that faith is at all necessary for any of these activities.

If someone showed you a cardboard box with a lawn chair inside, and told you to be seated and that the box would lift into the air and transport you home, THEN faith would be employed because there is no evidence that the box would be able to fly, lift you, or take you anywhere (unless a tornado was on the horizon).

Even then, it would not be the box doing any transporting, but the force of air current lifting both the box and its contents (you, seated in the chair).

True
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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10/18/2014 3:42:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 2:13:17 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/18/2014 2:00:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 10/17/2014 10:18:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It requires no "faith" to fly in a plane. Even the Wright Brothers had evidence their plane should fly. Have you never seen a plane flying? Do you lack even a basic understanding of aerodynamics? Have you never grasped the axle of a bicycle wheel, and spun the wheel? Are you devoid of the knowledge of gyroscopic effect? These are all forms of evidence which negate your claim that faith is at all necessary for any of these activities.

If someone showed you a cardboard box with a lawn chair inside, and told you to be seated and that the box would lift into the air and transport you home, THEN faith would be employed because there is no evidence that the box would be able to fly, lift you, or take you anywhere (unless a tornado was on the horizon).

Even then, it would not be the box doing any transporting, but the force of air current lifting both the box and its contents (you, seated in the chair).

True

Therefore GOD!
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/18/2014 3:44:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 3:42:16 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 10/18/2014 2:13:17 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/18/2014 2:00:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 10/17/2014 10:18:51 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

It requires no "faith" to fly in a plane. Even the Wright Brothers had evidence their plane should fly. Have you never seen a plane flying? Do you lack even a basic understanding of aerodynamics? Have you never grasped the axle of a bicycle wheel, and spun the wheel? Are you devoid of the knowledge of gyroscopic effect? These are all forms of evidence which negate your claim that faith is at all necessary for any of these activities.

If someone showed you a cardboard box with a lawn chair inside, and told you to be seated and that the box would lift into the air and transport you home, THEN faith would be employed because there is no evidence that the box would be able to fly, lift you, or take you anywhere (unless a tornado was on the horizon).

Even then, it would not be the box doing any transporting, but the force of air current lifting both the box and its contents (you, seated in the chair).

True

Therefore GOD!

Ah yes, the last two words in every theist's arguments. :-)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/18/2014 11:12:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

My son: My god will kill you.

My response: I have no refutation.
FMAlchemist
Posts: 24
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10/19/2014 12:53:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

I will assume we are using the religious definition of faith of "belief without evidence" instead of as a synonym of confidence.I don't think faith is the way to knowledge,because we can't test if something is true or false by just believing it.Maybe it is a source of false knowledge but i don't think this knowledge is as useful as true knowledge.I don't think someone without a bit of knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would be able to create a plane and fly it using his faith,i don't think someone would be able to ride a bike or a motorcycle by believing not knowing how to drive them and fly with them by believing you can do so,and for a baby to take his first step he must try a lot of times to train it and find the way to keep the balance and a freaking dare you to climb the Mt.Everest without any oxygen gear using only your faith.
DPMartin
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10/20/2014 9:00:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 12:53:16 AM, FMAlchemist wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

I will assume we are using the religious definition of faith of "belief without evidence" instead of as a synonym of confidence.I don't think faith is the way to knowledge,because we can't test if something is true or false by just believing it.Maybe it is a source of false knowledge but i don't think this knowledge is as useful as true knowledge.I don't think someone without a bit of knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would be able to create a plane and fly it using his faith,i don't think someone would be able to ride a bike or a motorcycle by believing not knowing how to drive them and fly with them by believing you can do so,and for a baby to take his first step he must try a lot of times to train it and find the way to keep the balance and a freaking dare you to climb the Mt.Everest without any oxygen gear using only your faith.

I didn"t know there was a special dictionary for religion, or is that just your definition so you can believe what you want, and not the truth?

According to Christianity faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb:11:1) Therefore in the view of Christianity, in which in your view is a religion, faith means evidence.

You have to know what the rest of the world knows faith is, and understood as, to talk about it. Not your own redefinition for religious purposes.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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10/20/2014 9:05:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:00:37 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/19/2014 12:53:16 AM, FMAlchemist wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

I will assume we are using the religious definition of faith of "belief without evidence" instead of as a synonym of confidence.I don't think faith is the way to knowledge,because we can't test if something is true or false by just believing it.Maybe it is a source of false knowledge but i don't think this knowledge is as useful as true knowledge.I don't think someone without a bit of knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would be able to create a plane and fly it using his faith,i don't think someone would be able to ride a bike or a motorcycle by believing not knowing how to drive them and fly with them by believing you can do so,and for a baby to take his first step he must try a lot of times to train it and find the way to keep the balance and a freaking dare you to climb the Mt.Everest without any oxygen gear using only your faith.

I didn"t know there was a special dictionary for religion, or is that just your definition so you can believe what you want, and not the truth?

According to Christianity faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb:11:1) Therefore in the view of Christianity, in which in your view is a religion, faith means evidence.

You have to know what the rest of the world knows faith is, and understood as, to talk about it. Not your own redefinition for religious purposes.

So what does the rest of the world think?
Maybe they think that the abrahamic religions are just fairy tales, well at least 2/3rds do.
FMAlchemist
Posts: 24
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10/20/2014 10:29:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:00:37 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/19/2014 12:53:16 AM, FMAlchemist wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

I will assume we are using the religious definition of faith of "belief without evidence" instead of as a synonym of confidence.I don't think faith is the way to knowledge,because we can't test if something is true or false by just believing it.Maybe it is a source of false knowledge but i don't think this knowledge is as useful as true knowledge.I don't think someone without a bit of knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would be able to create a plane and fly it using his faith,i don't think someone would be able to ride a bike or a motorcycle by believing not knowing how to drive them and fly with them by believing you can do so,and for a baby to take his first step he must try a lot of times to train it and find the way to keep the balance and a freaking dare you to climb the Mt.Everest without any oxygen gear using only your faith.

I didn"t know there was a special dictionary for religion, or is that just your definition so you can believe what you want, and not the truth?

According to Christianity faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb:11:1) Therefore in the view of Christianity, in which in your view is a religion, faith means evidence.

You have to know what the rest of the world knows faith is, and understood as, to talk about it. Not your own redefinition for religious purposes.

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

That's almost the same of what i said.Faith is confidence in things you hope are real but we can't see,yet you assure they are real.That's simply wishful thinking.Why assure and trust something without reason?If you do not see how you would be able to climb the Mt.Everest without oxygen gear,hoping you will and assuring you will achieve it will not make any difference!
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/20/2014 11:00:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:29:30 AM, FMAlchemist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:00:37 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/19/2014 12:53:16 AM, FMAlchemist wrote:
At 10/17/2014 4:35:30 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Faith supercedes the knowledge, because faith is the way to the knowledge. If one never has the faith to fly an airplane, ride a bicycle or motorcycle, take their first step, or climb Mt. Everest, then they will never know it.

I will assume we are using the religious definition of faith of "belief without evidence" instead of as a synonym of confidence.I don't think faith is the way to knowledge,because we can't test if something is true or false by just believing it.Maybe it is a source of false knowledge but i don't think this knowledge is as useful as true knowledge.I don't think someone without a bit of knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would be able to create a plane and fly it using his faith,i don't think someone would be able to ride a bike or a motorcycle by believing not knowing how to drive them and fly with them by believing you can do so,and for a baby to take his first step he must try a lot of times to train it and find the way to keep the balance and a freaking dare you to climb the Mt.Everest without any oxygen gear using only your faith.

I didn"t know there was a special dictionary for religion, or is that just your definition so you can believe what you want, and not the truth?

According to Christianity faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb:11:1) Therefore in the view of Christianity, in which in your view is a religion, faith means evidence.

You have to know what the rest of the world knows faith is, and understood as, to talk about it. Not your own redefinition for religious purposes.

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." - Hebrews 11:1

That's almost the same of what i said.Faith is confidence in things you hope are real but we can't see,yet you assure they are real.That's simply wishful thinking.Why assure and trust something without reason?If you do not see how you would be able to climb the Mt.Everest without oxygen gear,hoping you will and assuring you will achieve it will not make any difference!

"Almost" is for horse shoes hand grenades and nuke bombs
What I quoted you is from KJV the translation that has stood public scrutiny of over 400 yr"s, what translation or it looks like a paraphrase are you referring from?

From the OED (the authority on the English language)

Evidence: I. 1. The quality or condition of being evident; clearness, evidentness.
b. in evidence [after F. en "vidence]: actually present; prominent, conspicuous.
2. Manifestation; display. Obs.
II. That which manifests or makes evident.
3. An appearance from which inferences may be drawn; an indication, mark, sign, token, trace. Also to take evidence: to prognosticate. to bear, give evidence: to afford indications.

Assurance: I. The action of assuring.
Of making certain.
1. A promise or engagement making a thing certain; a formal engagement, pledge, or guarantee.
b. esp. An engagement guaranteeing peace and safety; terms of peace. Obs. exc. Hist.

And most non-believers base there own interpretations theories on evidence found by others, and the KJV says evidence not assurance. There is a distinctive difference there.

For example; in Christianity the resurrection of Jesus Christ is evidence seen by trusted witnesses. Not an assurance.