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Beyond "Y"

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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10/17/2014 10:39:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In order for a god to be all-knowing, he must know even the fact of his own omniscience. But can he do this? He may know the totality of facts constituting the world; call this Y. But in order to know that he has mastered Y, he must also know that 'There are no facts unknown to me' " and this is beyond Y.

It seems impossible that a god (or anyone) could ever be sure that nothing exists beyond his ken. It makes no sense to imagine [a god] arriving at this limit, peering beyond it (at what?), and satisfying himself no further facts exist. But without this certainty he cannot be sure of his own omniscience, and so does not know everything.

A theist might argue that his god has created all the facts in existence. But an omniscient god would have to be sure of even this " that he is the sole creator, and that there are no facts unknown to him. And how could he come to this knowledge? - Roland Puccetti
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/18/2014 4:17:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 10:39:40 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In order for a god to be all-knowing, he must know even the fact of his own omniscience. But can he do this? He may know the totality of facts constituting the world; call this Y. But in order to know that he has mastered Y, he must also know that 'There are no facts unknown to me' " and this is beyond Y.

It seems impossible that a god (or anyone) could ever be sure that nothing exists beyond his ken. It makes no sense to imagine [a god] arriving at this limit, peering beyond it (at what?), and satisfying himself no further facts exist. But without this certainty he cannot be sure of his own omniscience, and so does not know everything.

A theist might argue that his god has created all the facts in existence. But an omniscient god would have to be sure of even this " that he is the sole creator, and that there are no facts unknown to him. And how could he come to this knowledge? - Roland Puccetti

Dear s-anthony,
God can't be considered with a criterion like a human.
There are neither past, nor present,nor future and nor secret about His creatures.
By saying omniscience is meaned this.
He is God and knows even the 40. room in your mind
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/18/2014 5:04:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 4:17:54 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 10/17/2014 10:39:40 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In order for a god to be all-knowing, he must know even the fact of his own omniscience. But can he do this? He may know the totality of facts constituting the world; call this Y. But in order to know that he has mastered Y, he must also know that 'There are no facts unknown to me' " and this is beyond Y.

It seems impossible that a god (or anyone) could ever be sure that nothing exists beyond his ken. It makes no sense to imagine [a god] arriving at this limit, peering beyond it (at what?), and satisfying himself no further facts exist. But without this certainty he cannot be sure of his own omniscience, and so does not know everything.

A theist might argue that his god has created all the facts in existence. But an omniscient god would have to be sure of even this " that he is the sole creator, and that there are no facts unknown to him. And how could he come to this knowledge? - Roland Puccetti

Dear s-anthony,
God can't be considered with a criterion like a human.
Despite the fact we're assured we are created in his image

There are neither past, nor present,nor future and nor secret about His creatures.
Meaning every tragedy of human existence is in accordance with God's plans... all of them (He keeps changing, yet is unchanging).

By saying omniscience is meaned this.
He is God and knows even the 40. room in your mind

"Omniscience" is much more clear.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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10/18/2014 12:12:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dear s-anthony,
God can't be considered with a criterion like a human.
There are neither past, nor present,nor future and nor secret about His creatures.
By saying omniscience is meaned this.
He is God and knows even the 40. room in your mind
#3Report PostReply & QuoteAdd Post
Beastt

The argument never said God didn't know everything about creation. It asked how could God know beyond one's own knowledge there is nothing.
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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10/20/2014 5:14:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 5:04:21 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/18/2014 4:17:54 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 10/17/2014 10:39:40 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In order for a god to be all-knowing, he must know even the fact of his own omniscience. But can he do this? He may know the totality of facts constituting the world; call this Y. But in order to know that he has mastered Y, he must also know that 'There are no facts unknown to me' " and this is beyond Y.

It seems impossible that a god (or anyone) could ever be sure that nothing exists beyond his ken. It makes no sense to imagine [a god] arriving at this limit, peering beyond it (at what?), and satisfying himself no further facts exist. But without this certainty he cannot be sure of his own omniscience, and so does not know everything.

A theist might argue that his god has created all the facts in existence. But an omniscient god would have to be sure of even this " that he is the sole creator, and that there are no facts unknown to him. And how could he come to this knowledge? - Roland Puccetti

Dear s-anthony,
God can't be considered with a criterion like a human.
Despite the fact we're assured we are created in his image

There are neither past, nor present,nor future and nor secret about His creatures.
Meaning every tragedy of human existence is in accordance with God's plans... all of them (He keeps changing, yet is unchanging).

By saying omniscience is meaned this.
He is God and knows even the 40. room in your mind

"Omniscience" is much more clear.

Despite the fact we're assured we are created in his image
God doesn't resemble anyone. (According to the Qur'an unlike the Bible)

Meaning every tragedy of human existence is in accordance with God's plans... all of them (He keeps changing, yet is unchanging).
Yes.