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Why does God force people to suffer?

SitaraMusica
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10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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10/18/2014 9:06:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Humans suffer because of sin. This is something we brought on ourselves. Adam and Eve sinned against God. All of the suffering we experience is because of that.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/18/2014 9:09:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:06:11 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Humans suffer because of sin. This is something we brought on ourselves. Adam and Eve sinned against God. All of the suffering we experience is because of that.

An all-loving, all-powerful God can't be hurt (sinned against), thus, your pain is self-inflicted.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/18/2014 9:10:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:09:13 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:06:11 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Humans suffer because of sin. This is something we brought on ourselves. Adam and Eve sinned against God. All of the suffering we experience is because of that.

An all-loving, all-powerful God can't be hurt (sinned against), thus, your pain is self-inflicted.

You are wrong. I did not choose to suffer.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/18/2014 9:17:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:10:07 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:09:13 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:06:11 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Humans suffer because of sin. This is something we brought on ourselves. Adam and Eve sinned against God. All of the suffering we experience is because of that.

An all-loving, all-powerful God can't be hurt (sinned against), thus, your pain is self-inflicted.

You are wrong. I did not choose to suffer.

Then you assume an all-loving, all-powerful God chooses to hurt you.
That's a contradiction- for your belief, either God isn't all-loving and all-powerful, or you really and truly hurt yourself.

Just to clarify: I do not consider physical pain as suffering since we are all creations (souls) of God.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/18/2014 9:32:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:17:14 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:10:07 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:09:13 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:06:11 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Humans suffer because of sin. This is something we brought on ourselves. Adam and Eve sinned against God. All of the suffering we experience is because of that.

An all-loving, all-powerful God can't be hurt (sinned against), thus, your pain is self-inflicted.

You are wrong. I did not choose to suffer.

Then you assume an all-loving, all-powerful God chooses to hurt you.
That's a contradiction- for your belief, either God isn't all-loving and all-powerful, or you really and truly hurt yourself.

Just to clarify: I do not consider physical pain as suffering since we are all creations (souls) of God.
I just do not understand all of the mysteries of God and the universe.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 9:44:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Sitara, we suffer because God is an unkind God. I have the answer, but people don't like it.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 9:45:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:44:08 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Sitara, we suffer because God is an unkind God. I have the answer, but people don't like it.

I suppose a case be made that many, many people suffer because it helps everyone to get by in life, no matter how crummy it is. Seeing people suffer helps us to get through the hard times--there's probably a lot of truth in this.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 9:50:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Think about this:

Let's say some people's lives were absolutely perfect. The lives of others were crummy. How would that make the people with the crummy lives feel, knowing that some peoples lives were picture perfect?

Religions and beliefs help us to endure the hard times and motivate us to push ourselves into the future. Hopes of a better after-life (or a possibly worse one) motivate us to do good, in spite of how bad our lives might be. But in a faithless society where heaven and reward are tossed out the window, that motivation is no longer there.

So I guess it's only fair that we should all suffer. No one's life can be perfect.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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10/18/2014 9:50:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:44:08 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Sitara, we suffer because God is an unkind God. I have the answer, but people don't like it.

You know nothing. We suffer because we disobeyed God. It's in the Bible. Look it up.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 9:52:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
We suffer because the proliferation of intelligent life requires it.

I acknowledge that this is a terribly negative way of looking at things (I suppose I might still be wrong); but it does make sense to me.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,129
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10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 10:19:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

No. Infants and children did not create their own suffering. But that's also true of a lot of adults and a lot of other life-forms.

Do I believe God let's us suffer for sin? Yes I do. But I think we also suffer for many other reasons, besides sin.

I mean, it's ludicrous to claim that the dinosaurs were wiped-out for sin. No, God simply had other plans for life on Earth, and that's why they were eradicated.

Well, if God allowed the dinosaurs to suffer and die for this reason, what makes us think he wont do something similar to humankind and to communities within it. I mean, if' you're going to look at this soberly, God is clearly a selfish tyrant.

I subscribe to a dystheistic form of theism, which purports that God is not wholly good.

I do not subscribe to a view that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. God is imperfect and, because he is, he is capable of a little evil.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 10:23:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Correction:

"I mean, if you're going to look at this soberly, God is clearly a selfish tyrant."

=

I mean, if you're going to look at this soberly, God is more accurately understood as ambitious tyrant.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,129
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10/18/2014 10:32:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:19:52 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

No. Infants and children did not create their own suffering. But that's also true of a lot of adults and a lot of other life-forms.

Do I believe God let's us suffer for sin? Yes I do. But I think we also suffer for many other reasons, besides sin.

I mean, it's ludicrous to claim that the dinosaurs were wiped-out for sin. No, God simply had other plans for life on Earth, and that's why they were eradicated.

Well, if God allowed the dinosaurs to suffer and die for this reason, what makes us think he wont do something similar to humankind and to communities within it. I mean, if' you're going to look at this soberly, God is clearly a selfish tyrant.

I subscribe to a dystheistic form of theism, which purports that God is not wholly good.

I do not subscribe to a view that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. God is imperfect and, because he is, he is capable of a little evil.

If I were to believe in a god, I would be forced to accept something similar to your beliefs. Our reality does not support an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 10:34:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:32:35 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:19:52 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

No. Infants and children did not create their own suffering. But that's also true of a lot of adults and a lot of other life-forms.

Do I believe God let's us suffer for sin? Yes I do. But I think we also suffer for many other reasons, besides sin.

I mean, it's ludicrous to claim that the dinosaurs were wiped-out for sin. No, God simply had other plans for life on Earth, and that's why they were eradicated.

Well, if God allowed the dinosaurs to suffer and die for this reason, what makes us think he wont do something similar to humankind and to communities within it. I mean, if' you're going to look at this soberly, God is clearly a selfish tyrant.

I subscribe to a dystheistic form of theism, which purports that God is not wholly good.

I do not subscribe to a view that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. God is imperfect and, because he is, he is capable of a little evil.

If I were to believe in a god, I would be forced to accept something similar to your beliefs. Our reality does not support an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god.

**Nods at Skepticalone** I'm totally in agreement with you.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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10/18/2014 10:49:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
However, even if God is a little evil, humankind must still be good to itself, to other life forms, and to the planet, because only this will provided long-term happiness.

When humans acts a little evil, it will produce a little suffering. So humans still have to emphasize being good to each other.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/18/2014 11:50:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:44:08 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Sitara, we suffer because God is an unkind God. I have the answer, but people don't like it.

I agree. I have so much anger towards God right now.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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10/18/2014 11:53:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:50:39 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:44:08 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Sitara, we suffer because God is an unkind God. I have the answer, but people don't like it.

You know nothing. We suffer because we disobeyed God. It's in the Bible. Look it up.

What makes the bible true?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/19/2014 7:28:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

Of course they did. Don't confuse the body equaling the soul.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/19/2014 7:49:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:45:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
What makes the bible true?

Nothing at all- the Grimm brothers' stories make more sense than the Bible...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,129
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10/19/2014 8:11:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:28:13 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

Of course they did. Don't confuse the body equaling the soul.

Humans are evil by the imperfect nature God created them with and judges them for? That's like a carpenter making a wooden box then destroying it while trying to get it to fit in a round cubby. If the box does not achieve the craftsman's goals, who does the fault lie with?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/19/2014 8:23:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 8:11:08 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:28:13 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

Of course they did. Don't confuse the body equaling the soul.

Humans are evil by the imperfect nature God created them with and judges them for? That's like a carpenter making a wooden box then destroying it while trying to get it to fit in a round cubby. If the box does not achieve the craftsman's goals, who does the fault lie with?

My premise is God CAN'T make imperfection (evil), thus, all our sufferings are imagined and not real. Which is literally true. We are living in our own, made up, nightmare while God is wondering how long it will take us to get back to him and stop this silliness of avoiding him (or her).
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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10/19/2014 8:51:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 8:23:30 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/19/2014 8:11:08 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:28:13 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 10:08:16 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:45:10 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

Assumption: An all-loving, all-powerful God exists.
I will accept that assumption (and I know I added qualifiers, so if you don't think God is all-loving and all-powerful, please let me know).

Premise: People suffer while they shouldn't if God exists.

Conclusion (based upon an all-loving God exists): People create their own suffering.

There are obvious exceptions to that. Infants and children, for instance, did they create their own suffering?

Of course they did. Don't confuse the body equaling the soul.

Humans are evil by the imperfect nature God created them with and judges them for? That's like a carpenter making a wooden box then destroying it while trying to get it to fit in a round cubby. If the box does not achieve the craftsman's goals, who does the fault lie with?

My premise is God CAN'T make imperfection (evil), thus, all our sufferings are imagined and not real. Which is literally true. We are living in our own, made up, nightmare while God is wondering how long it will take us to get back to him and stop this silliness of avoiding him (or her).

I religiously avoid Dragons and Yetis as well.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
12_13
Posts: 1,364
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10/19/2014 9:59:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:05:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
This debate is based on the assumption that God exists. People do not want to suffer. They suffer anyway. Therefore, God forces them to suffer.

People want things that lead to suffering, and because God allowed people to be free and get the knowledge of good and evil, we have suffering. Luckily nothing of this world can destroy soul. Therefore this world and all suffering here is just a lesson that people chose at the beginning.