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There is no "Problem of Evil" in Islam

POPOO5560
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10/19/2014 5:36:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
After reading some answers to that, no doubt that Islam has the best logical answer to suffering and the problem of evil. this is a common allegation towards God refuting a "Good God":

1. A good God that is omnipotent exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn"t exist

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just
the Severe in Punishment
the Wise
the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

there are nany names of God that reconcile with reality. here reasons why God causes suffering and evil in the world:
1 - God"s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.
2 - God created life as test and trial, and part of this test is to be tested with suffering and evil.

The Qur"an mentions:
2:214 Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of God?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of God is near"

2:155-7 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

67:2 "The One Who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds: He is the all-Almighty, the all-Forgiving".

29:1-3 "Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars".

Hadith:
"Allah will say on the Day of Judgment, "O son of Adam, I was sick and you did not visit Me." He will say, "O my Lord, how could I visit You, when you are the Lord of the Worlds." Allah will say, "Did you not know that My servant so-and-so was sick and you did not visit him? Did you not know that if you had visited him, you would have found Me there?"....

3 - Expiation of sins & Reward:
Allah's Apostle said, "No fatigue, nor disease, nor sorrow, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, but that Allah expiates some of his sins for that."

Allah"s Apostle said, "God said, "If I deprive my slave of his two beloved things (i.e., his eyes) and he remains patient, I will let him enter Paradise in compensation for them.""

The Prophet said : "The greater reward is with the greater trial or the greater the trial or difficulty of test or hardship is then the greater the reward...(long hadith).

"There are seven classes of martyrs except the one who is killed while fighting in the cause of God: one who dies in plague is a martyr; one who dies due to drowning is a martyr; one who is killed of Zat al-Janb disease (a disease that attacks ribs and causes inner ulcerations) is a martyr; one who dies of diseases of stomach is a martyr; one who is killed by fire is a martyr; one who is crushed under a wall is a martyr; and a woman who dies while delivery (or pregnancy) is a martyr."

4 - For guidance and increasing ones qualities in trust in God, patience, strength, courage etc...:
Quran:
64:11 No calamity befalls, but with the Leave [i.e. decision and Qadar (Divine Preordainments)] of Allah/God, and whosoever believes in Allah/God, He guides his heart [to the true Faith with certainty, i.e. what has befallen him was already written for him by Allah/God from the Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], and Allah/God is the All-Knower of everything.

Hadith:
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever Allah wants good for him, he puts them to test. He puts them through difficulties. Like a diamond or some metal that has to be burnt and then that which is bad from it is removed so that you have that which is the pure diamond or the pure gold or whatever. Put them to tests, trials and difficulties."

When the Prophet May Allah's peace and praise be on him was asked which people suffered the greatest affliction, he replied, "The prophets, then those who come next to them, then those who come next to them. A man is afflicted in keeping his religion. If he is firm in his religion his trial is severe, but if there is weakness in his religion it is made light for him, and it continues like that till he walks on the earth having no sin."

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, he thanks Allah and there is good for him. If he is harmed, he shows patience and there is good for him."

5 - 6. God has given us free will, and free will includes choosing evil acts and good ones. everyone will be judge in Judgment day according to his deeds.

6 - Having hardship and suffering enables us to realise and know God"s attributes such as "the Victorious" and "the Healer". For example without the pain and suffering of illness we would not appreciate the attribute of God being "the Healer". Knowing God is a greater good, and worth the experience of suffering or pain as it will mean the fulfillment of our primary purpose.

7 - God"s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. for example in the Quran there is the story of Khder (chapter 18:60-82), apparently the story seem like suffering one but in the end the result of that hardship is good,positive benefits.

So the "problem of evil" is really not a problem when it comes to Islam, because its part of reality how God created everything in it including evil and good. if someone can give a better answer to that you welcome.
Never fart near dog
Mirza
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10/19/2014 5:42:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Correct, unless someone invented a wholly other form of the PoE that principally differs from the standard version. If God's Goodness is infinite, certainly the Islamic view is that it is not truly infinite, in the sense that it cancels out other attributes of God. Consider the question: Can God create a stone He Himself cannot lift? No, for to do that His omnipotence must be without any bounds, hereby logical ones. Thus, the question itself is nonsensical. In the exact same way, asking why God allows evil when He is defined by many attributes that are not in conflict with the existence of evil is, too, nonsensical.
POPOO5560
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10/19/2014 6:43:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 5:42:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
Correct, unless someone invented a wholly other form of the PoE that principally differs from the standard version. If God's Goodness is infinite, certainly the Islamic view is that it is not truly infinite, in the sense that it cancels out other attributes of God. Consider the question: Can God create a stone He Himself cannot lift? No, for to do that His omnipotence must be without any bounds, hereby logical ones. Thus, the question itself is nonsensical. In the exact same way, asking why God allows evil when He is defined by many attributes that are not in conflict with the existence of evil is, too, nonsensical.

yeah and the same question "can God create a stone he himself cannot lift?/Can God create another God?" is like asking "can God become a man?"... they contradicting the nature of God. if you want to watch this debate Sheikh Wesam Charkawi & Rev. Samuel Green - https://www.youtube.com...
long debate but good one and every debate you can see Islam overcomes every religion through reasoning lol.
Never fart near dog
Fly
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10/19/2014 6:49:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 5:36:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
After reading some answers to that, no doubt that Islam has the best logical answer to suffering and the problem of evil. this is a common allegation towards God refuting a "Good God":

1. A good God that is omnipotent exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn"t exist

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just

Seeing as how God's judgment, whatever it may be, is deemed the ultimate in being just, then this is not a very objective term, is it? God can do whatever, and it will be deemed just and righteous no matter what because "he said so."

the Severe in Punishment
the Wise

Any examples of wisdom that could only come from a deity?

the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

No questions here regarding all the others-- Islam does exemplify these qualities on earth. Not having "Good" as the most dominant characteristic does explain a lot...

there are nany names of God that reconcile with reality. here reasons why God causes suffering and evil in the world:
1 - God"s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.
2 - God created life as test and trial, and part of this test is to be tested with suffering and evil.

The Qur"an mentions:
2:214 Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of God?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of God is near"

2:155-7 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

67:2 "The One Who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds: He is the all-Almighty, the all-Forgiving".

29:1-3 "Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars".

Hadith:
"Allah will say on the Day of Judgment, "O son of Adam, I was sick and you did not visit Me." He will say, "O my Lord, how could I visit You, when you are the Lord of the Worlds." Allah will say, "Did you not know that My servant so-and-so was sick and you did not visit him? Did you not know that if you had visited him, you would have found Me there?"....

3 - Expiation of sins & Reward:
Allah's Apostle said, "No fatigue, nor disease, nor sorrow, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, but that Allah expiates some of his sins for that."

Allah"s Apostle said, "God said, "If I deprive my slave of his two beloved things (i.e., his eyes) and he remains patient, I will let him enter Paradise in compensation for them.""

The Prophet said : "The greater reward is with the greater trial or the greater the trial or difficulty of test or hardship is then the greater the reward...(long hadith).

"There are seven classes of martyrs except the one who is killed while fighting in the cause of God: one who dies in plague is a martyr; one who dies due to drowning is a martyr; one who is killed of Zat al-Janb disease (a disease that attacks ribs and causes inner ulcerations) is a martyr; one who dies of diseases of stomach is a martyr; one who is killed by fire is a martyr; one who is crushed under a wall is a martyr; and a woman who dies while delivery (or pregnancy) is a martyr."

4 - For guidance and increasing ones qualities in trust in God, patience, strength, courage etc...:
Quran:
64:11 No calamity befalls, but with the Leave [i.e. decision and Qadar (Divine Preordainments)] of Allah/God, and whosoever believes in Allah/God, He guides his heart [to the true Faith with certainty, i.e. what has befallen him was already written for him by Allah/God from the Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], and Allah/God is the All-Knower of everything.

Hadith:
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever Allah wants good for him, he puts them to test. He puts them through difficulties. Like a diamond or some metal that has to be burnt and then that which is bad from it is removed so that you have that which is the pure diamond or the pure gold or whatever. Put them to tests, trials and difficulties."

When the Prophet May Allah's peace and praise be on him was asked which people suffered the greatest affliction, he replied, "The prophets, then those who come next to them, then those who come next to them. A man is afflicted in keeping his religion. If he is firm in his religion his trial is severe, but if there is weakness in his religion it is made light for him, and it continues like that till he walks on the earth having no sin."

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, he thanks Allah and there is good for him. If he is harmed, he shows patience and there is good for him."

5 - 6. God has given us free will, and free will includes choosing evil acts and good ones. everyone will be judge in Judgment day according to his deeds.

6 - Having hardship and suffering enables us to realise and know God"s attributes such as "the Victorious" and "the Healer". For example without the pain and suffering of illness we would not appreciate the attribute of God being "the Healer". Knowing God is a greater good, and worth the experience of suffering or pain as it will mean the fulfillment of our primary purpose.

7 - God"s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. for example in the Quran there is the story of Khder (chapter 18:60-82), apparently the story seem like suffering one but in the end the result of that hardship is good,positive benefits.

So the "problem of evil" is really not a problem when it comes to Islam, because its part of reality how God created everything in it including evil and good. if someone can give a better answer to that you welcome.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
SNP1
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10/19/2014 7:05:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
False.

49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."

Allah is all knowing here.

22:6: "That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things."

Allah is all powerful here.

Now, I am assuming that the Qur'an says that Allah is benevolent (I cannot find a verse for this).

That means the following:

http://i.imgur.com...

You saying that this life is a test is you saying that Allah is not all-knowing, which means that you are saying that the Qur'an is wrong.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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10/19/2014 7:37:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 6:49:49 PM, Fly wrote:

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just

Seeing as how God's judgment, whatever it may be, is deemed the ultimate in being just, then this is not a very objective term, is it? God can do whatever, and it will be deemed just and righteous no matter what because "he said so."

What? one of the attributes of God in islam is the Just, its not because "he said so" this is part of God in Islam, if you say God is unjust you are not talking about the God of Islam. the 99 names/attributes is taken from the Quran im not taking it of my mind freely.


the Severe in Punishment
the Wise

Any examples of wisdom that could only come from a deity?

what it has to do with "suffering" for Gods sake?


the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

No questions here regarding all the others-- Islam does exemplify these qualities on earth. Not having "Good" as the most dominant characteristic does explain a lot...

dude i just told you in Islam God has 99 names/attributes i just wrote the names that somehow related to the "problem of evil", so you judge God through 7 names only? you forget the 92 names beside these. please dont be so genuis and check the others. https://www.youtube.com...
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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10/19/2014 7:42:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:05:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
False.

49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."

Allah is all knowing here.

22:6: "That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things."

Allah is all powerful here.

Now, I am assuming that the Qur'an says that Allah is benevolent (I cannot find a verse for this).

every Surah/chapter (except surah 9) begins by the sentence - In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful. you are trolling here right?


That means the following:

http://i.imgur.com...

You saying that this life is a test is you saying that Allah is not all-knowing,

wtf.. what you are trolling or what?

which means that you are saying that the Qur'an is wrong.

trolling...
Never fart near dog
SNP1
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10/19/2014 7:47:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:42:12 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:05:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
False.

49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."

Allah is all knowing here.

22:6: "That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things."

Allah is all powerful here.

Now, I am assuming that the Qur'an says that Allah is benevolent (I cannot find a verse for this).

every Surah/chapter (except surah 9) begins by the sentence - In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful. you are trolling here right?

Merciful does not always mean benevolent, especially if the words used are "most merciful". If there are no beings that are merciful, then the most merciful being could be one that is merciful to only a small percentage of people.

Same thing can be said about Beneficent.

Besides, I was trying to find something more than that. After all, that is at the beginning of every Surah, I was looking for a specific verse, which I feel would be more concrete about this, but I forgot that you believe that the book is infallible, so I guess that will do.

That means the following:

http://i.imgur.com...

You saying that this life is a test is you saying that Allah is not all-knowing,

wtf.. what you are trolling or what?

Sorry, is it too hard for you to understand the flow chart? If Allah is all knowing, then he knows the result of the test, and therefore the test is pointless.

which means that you are saying that the Qur'an is wrong.

trolling...

Not really, just tired and am probably not being as clear as I can be.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/19/2014 7:51:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 6:43:53 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
yeah and the same question "can God create a stone he himself cannot lift?/Can God create another God?" is like asking "can God become a man?"... they contradicting the nature of God. if you want to watch this debate Sheikh Wesam Charkawi & Rev. Samuel Green - https://www.youtube.com...
long debate but good one and every debate you can see Islam overcomes every religion through reasoning lol.
Thank you.
Fly
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10/19/2014 8:03:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:37:22 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 6:49:49 PM, Fly wrote:

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just

Seeing as how God's judgment, whatever it may be, is deemed the ultimate in being just, then this is not a very objective term, is it? God can do whatever, and it will be deemed just and righteous no matter what because "he said so."

What? one of the attributes of God in islam is the Just, its not because "he said so" this is part of God in Islam, if you say God is unjust you are not talking about the God of Islam. the 99 names/attributes is taken from the Quran im not taking it of my mind freely.

I'm talking about frames of reference. If god is just, then nothing he would ever do could be called unjust. That makes the quality "just" virtually meaningless. Your response pretty much reiterates my point.

the Severe in Punishment
the Wise

Any examples of wisdom that could only come from a deity?

what it has to do with "suffering" for Gods sake?


the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

No questions here regarding all the others-- Islam does exemplify these qualities on earth. Not having "Good" as the most dominant characteristic does explain a lot...

dude i just told you in Islam God has 99 names/attributes i just wrote the names that somehow related to the "problem of evil", so you judge God through 7 names only? you forget the 92 names beside these. please dont be so genuis and check the others. https://www.youtube.com...

Oh, well when it comes to a "just" god and suffering, I think of a woman in a war torn area who does not know god but whose child has been killed, and she is being raped, and when she dies after her painful life, she can look forward to Hell, although she may not realize it. Just one of many possible and tragic scenarios for the unbeliever that does not seem very just to me.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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10/19/2014 8:06:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 7:47:56 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:42:12 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:05:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
False.

49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."

Allah is all knowing here.

22:6: "That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things."

Allah is all powerful here.

Now, I am assuming that the Qur'an says that Allah is benevolent (I cannot find a verse for this).

every Surah/chapter (except surah 9) begins by the sentence - In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful. you are trolling here right?

Merciful does not always mean benevolent, especially if the words used are "most merciful". If there are no beings that are merciful, then the most merciful being could be one that is merciful to only a small percentage of people.

Same thing can be said about Beneficent.

Besides, I was trying to find something more than that. After all, that is at the beginning of every Surah, I was looking for a specific verse, which I feel would be more concrete about this, but I forgot that you believe that the book is infallible, so I guess that will do.

the sentence "In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful" sometime translated as "In the name of Allah,the Most Benevolent, the Most Merciful" the word rahman (Beneficent/Benevolent..) has many meanings... here they know better arabic than me... http://www.islamawakened.com...


That means the following:

http://i.imgur.com...

You saying that this life is a test is you saying that Allah is not all-knowing,

wtf.. what you are trolling or what?

Sorry, is it too hard for you to understand the flow chart? If Allah is all knowing, then he knows the result of the test, and therefore the test is pointless.

but wait the test is for us, God has arttibutes like the name i mentioned up there - the Just. if he knows what will happen and not test us and throw some to hell and paradise he would be just to us? no.


which means that you are saying that the Qur'an is wrong.

trolling...

Not really, just tired and am probably not being as clear as I can be.

oh sorry i thought u r trolling... anyway i gave the example of justice for that...
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SNP1
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10/19/2014 8:10:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 8:06:08 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:47:56 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:42:12 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:05:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
False.

49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."

Allah is all knowing here.

22:6: "That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things."

Allah is all powerful here.

Now, I am assuming that the Qur'an says that Allah is benevolent (I cannot find a verse for this).

every Surah/chapter (except surah 9) begins by the sentence - In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful. you are trolling here right?

Merciful does not always mean benevolent, especially if the words used are "most merciful". If there are no beings that are merciful, then the most merciful being could be one that is merciful to only a small percentage of people.

Same thing can be said about Beneficent.

Besides, I was trying to find something more than that. After all, that is at the beginning of every Surah, I was looking for a specific verse, which I feel would be more concrete about this, but I forgot that you believe that the book is infallible, so I guess that will do.

the sentence "In the name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful" sometime translated as "In the name of Allah,the Most Benevolent, the Most Merciful" the word rahman (Beneficent/Benevolent..) has many meanings... here they know better arabic than me... http://www.islamawakened.com...

Okay

That means the following:

http://i.imgur.com...

You saying that this life is a test is you saying that Allah is not all-knowing,

wtf.. what you are trolling or what?

Sorry, is it too hard for you to understand the flow chart? If Allah is all knowing, then he knows the result of the test, and therefore the test is pointless.

but wait the test is for us, God has arttibutes like the name i mentioned up there - the Just. if he knows what will happen and not test us and throw some to hell and paradise he would be just to us? no.

If the outcome is already known, and therefore cannot be changed, then there is little difference.

which means that you are saying that the Qur'an is wrong.

trolling...

Not really, just tired and am probably not being as clear as I can be.

oh sorry i thought u r trolling... anyway i gave the example of justice for that...

ok
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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10/19/2014 8:18:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 8:03:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 10/19/2014 7:37:22 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/19/2014 6:49:49 PM, Fly wrote:

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just

Seeing as how God's judgment, whatever it may be, is deemed the ultimate in being just, then this is not a very objective term, is it? God can do whatever, and it will be deemed just and righteous no matter what because "he said so."

What? one of the attributes of God in islam is the Just, its not because "he said so" this is part of God in Islam, if you say God is unjust you are not talking about the God of Islam. the 99 names/attributes is taken from the Quran im not taking it of my mind freely.

I'm talking about frames of reference. If god is just, then nothing he would ever do could be called unjust. That makes the quality "just" virtually meaningless. Your response pretty much reiterates my point.

yep everything he does is Just because his knowledge and wisdom beyond our understanding... but why it makes the quality "just" meaningless? i dont get it lol.


the Severe in Punishment
the Wise

Any examples of wisdom that could only come from a deity?

what it has to do with "suffering" for Gods sake?


the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

No questions here regarding all the others-- Islam does exemplify these qualities on earth. Not having "Good" as the most dominant characteristic does explain a lot...

dude i just told you in Islam God has 99 names/attributes i just wrote the names that somehow related to the "problem of evil", so you judge God through 7 names only? you forget the 92 names beside these. please dont be so genuis and check the others. https://www.youtube.com...

Oh, well when it comes to a "just" god and suffering, I think of a woman in a war torn area who does not know god but whose child has been killed, and she is being raped, and when she dies after her painful life, she can look forward to Hell, although she may not realize it. Just one of many possible and tragic scenarios for the unbeliever that does not seem very just to me.

Islam says everybody will be judge according to his life,tests,time,circumstances, opportunities in every single matter.. first the people who dont know/heard about God will be tested on the day of judgment. our believe is any child born as a muslim, every child that killed,murdered or whatever happen, will go to paradise. in every aspect there is justice. for example the women that being raped or killed, that person will pay for that crime. its not like you didnt know about jesus you go to hell or nonsense like that.
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Fly
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10/19/2014 8:22:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
That makes more sense than strict Christian doctrine, then. But it still brings up a moral paradox: if a murdered child goes to paradise, then didn't the killer actually do that child a favor?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
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Mirza
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10/19/2014 9:21:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 8:22:48 PM, Fly wrote:
That makes more sense than strict Christian doctrine, then. But it still brings up a moral paradox: if a murdered child goes to paradise, then didn't the killer actually do that child a favor?
No. Taking God's role into one's own hands is forbidden, and one would be violating another persons right to life.
popculturepooka
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10/19/2014 9:45:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yeah...the PoE is a problem for all theists who believe in a perfectly knowledgeable, good, and powerful God. It's not specifically a Christian problem.
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debateuser
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10/19/2014 9:57:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 5:36:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
After reading some answers to that, no doubt that Islam has the best logical answer to suffering and the problem of evil. this is a common allegation towards God refuting a "Good God":

1. A good God that is omnipotent exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn"t exist

the problem here is this is for Christian type of God. In islam there are 99 names/attributes for God. in these God in not only "good" but also:
the Just
the Severe in Punishment
the Wise
the Avenger
the Giver of life
the Causer of death
the Guide
......

there are nany names of God that reconcile with reality. here reasons why God causes suffering and evil in the world:
1 - God"s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.
2 - God created life as test and trial, and part of this test is to be tested with suffering and evil.

The Qur"an mentions:
2:214 Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of God?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of God is near"

2:155-7 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

67:2 "The One Who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds: He is the all-Almighty, the all-Forgiving".

29:1-3 "Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars".

Hadith:
"Allah will say on the Day of Judgment, "O son of Adam, I was sick and you did not visit Me." He will say, "O my Lord, how could I visit You, when you are the Lord of the Worlds." Allah will say, "Did you not know that My servant so-and-so was sick and you did not visit him? Did you not know that if you had visited him, you would have found Me there?"....

3 - Expiation of sins & Reward:
Allah's Apostle said, "No fatigue, nor disease, nor sorrow, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, but that Allah expiates some of his sins for that."

Allah"s Apostle said, "God said, "If I deprive my slave of his two beloved things (i.e., his eyes) and he remains patient, I will let him enter Paradise in compensation for them.""

The Prophet said : "The greater reward is with the greater trial or the greater the trial or difficulty of test or hardship is then the greater the reward...(long hadith).

"There are seven classes of martyrs except the one who is killed while fighting in the cause of God: one who dies in plague is a martyr; one who dies due to drowning is a martyr; one who is killed of Zat al-Janb disease (a disease that attacks ribs and causes inner ulcerations) is a martyr; one who dies of diseases of stomach is a martyr; one who is killed by fire is a martyr; one who is crushed under a wall is a martyr; and a woman who dies while delivery (or pregnancy) is a martyr."

4 - For guidance and increasing ones qualities in trust in God, patience, strength, courage etc...:
Quran:
64:11 No calamity befalls, but with the Leave [i.e. decision and Qadar (Divine Preordainments)] of Allah/God, and whosoever believes in Allah/God, He guides his heart [to the true Faith with certainty, i.e. what has befallen him was already written for him by Allah/God from the Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], and Allah/God is the All-Knower of everything.

Hadith:
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever Allah wants good for him, he puts them to test. He puts them through difficulties. Like a diamond or some metal that has to be burnt and then that which is bad from it is removed so that you have that which is the pure diamond or the pure gold or whatever. Put them to tests, trials and difficulties."

When the Prophet May Allah's peace and praise be on him was asked which people suffered the greatest affliction, he replied, "The prophets, then those who come next to them, then those who come next to them. A man is afflicted in keeping his religion. If he is firm in his religion his trial is severe, but if there is weakness in his religion it is made light for him, and it continues like that till he walks on the earth having no sin."

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, he thanks Allah and there is good for him. If he is harmed, he shows patience and there is good for him."

5 - 6. God has given us free will, and free will includes choosing evil acts and good ones. everyone will be judge in Judgment day according to his deeds.

6 - Having hardship and suffering enables us to realise and know God"s attributes such as "the Victorious" and "the Healer". For example without the pain and suffering of illness we would not appreciate the attribute of God being "the Healer". Knowing God is a greater good, and worth the experience of suffering or pain as it will mean the fulfillment of our primary purpose.

7 - God"s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. for example in the Quran there is the story of Khder (chapter 18:60-82), apparently the story seem like suffering one but in the end the result of that hardship is good,positive benefits.

So the "problem of evil" is really not a problem when it comes to Islam, because its part of reality how God created everything in it including evil and good. if someone can give a better answer to that you welcome.

The real question is that why didn't the alleged God destroy satan. I mean scripture does say that God destroyed few nations for disobeying him. Religion doesn't make sense does it. Lol
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Fly
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10/19/2014 10:24:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 9:21:46 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/19/2014 8:22:48 PM, Fly wrote:
That makes more sense than strict Christian doctrine, then. But it still brings up a moral paradox: if a murdered child goes to paradise, then didn't the killer actually do that child a favor?
No. Taking God's role into one's own hands is forbidden, and one would be violating another persons right to life.

I'm not talking about the disobedience of the killer. As for right to life, what is a few dozen years on this evil-ridden planet compared to eternity in paradise? By this belief system, a murdered child is better off in terms of his/her immortal soul.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Mirza
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10/19/2014 11:41:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 10:24:29 PM, Fly wrote:
I'm not talking about the disobedience of the killer. As for right to life, what is a few dozen years on this evil-ridden planet compared to eternity in paradise? By this belief system, a murdered child is better off in terms of his/her immortal soul.
I understood correctly, but wanted to add why an individual is not allowed to do it. I do not disagree that the victim could be better off, but saying this distracts one from the issue of what the moral criminal has is doing.
12_13
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10/20/2014 2:06:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 5:36:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
After reading some answers to that, no doubt that Islam has the best logical answer to suffering and the problem of evil. this is a common allegation towards God refuting a "Good God":

1. A good God that is omnipotent exist
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn"t exist

Actually evil is not any problem, it I sonly just something that we must learn here, because at the beginning people wanted to know good and evil like God. This is just lesson that our soul can experience through our bodies. This world could be compared to the Matrix in the movie Matrix.