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ATHOS
Posts: 123
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10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is the purpose of Christianity?
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
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10/20/2014 11:53:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

In what sense are you asking?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/21/2014 12:24:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The xtian Story book propaganda offers greedy, selfish people promises of rewards for themselves!

Take away those Story book promises and ask them to still actually manifest & maintain ALL the Story book requirements laid out to qualify for a true believer, they run for cover making every conceivable excuse for their failure!

Religions appear to offer rewards for obedience etc. and the greedy & selfish rush to claim it whilst failing on most counts to even come close to being a true believer.

Their own propaganda lists the requirements of a genuine believer and they must manifest ALL of them.

I have offered others to step up and try but alas not a single one in man's history outside of Story book land have even come remotely close!

Want to try?

Step forward, choose your preferred Story book biblical propaganda version & I'll give you the List of requirements and you can strut your stuff for us and we'll see how you go?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 3:31:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

Bulprof pretty much explained the laymans terms, but I think on another side, it's purpose is to show a transformation that causes people to behave differently. Most hope it's for the good, but there is a few rotten apples that try to poison the roots.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 4:34:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

God's purpose for Christianity was to deliver the prophecies to me, God's last saint. The other purpose for using Christianity was to spread building techniques throughout the rest of the world beyond the Roman Empire, where the Romans built beautiful false gods in honor of their gods in the sky.

God's plan called the beast was to teach His people how to build things until the modern technology was built today to use as analogies to help us understand how we were created. Now we know that what we observe in this world ( universe ) are only illusions that come from processed wavelengths of energy. The wavelengths of energy are bits of information, which is God's language that come from His invisible thoughts.

Christianity has been used to accomplish His mission. Now He can destroy everything in this world according to His eternal plan.

Christianity was never intended by God to spread the Truth throughout the world. Jesus is NOT the Truth. He is only an illusion called a saint, just like the illusion that's writing this post.

An illusion appears real to us but God knows it's not real. It's only a way for Him to make us believe we are real, even though our true reality is invisible information.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/21/2014 4:46:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To be restored to the place A&E where before they where cast out. To be restored to be in God"s Presence at God"s peace with one"s self. According to Luke 3:39 Adam was the son of God, until he died of that life. And we who come into the world have the life A&E had. Jesus Christ the Son of God (some call second Adam) restored all those who call upon His name for salvation of the soul, and by being born of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God receive the life Jesus has of which was rased from the dead. This is all in reference to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
dee-em
Posts: 6,497
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10/21/2014 5:35:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

Why is it a bad thought to want to live forever? I would be a theist in a heartbeat if I had convincing evidence that an afterlife existed.

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

Fine.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists.

In what way is an atheist cowardly? A believer could be accused of being afraid of death. What is the atheist accused of?

Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Who's fighting? We're exchanging ideas.
Material_Girl
Posts: 264
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10/21/2014 5:52:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It, and all religious institutions, evolved as tools of the ruling class, used to subjugate the masses and legitimise the statuses and actions of feudal and pre-feudal rulers in a way that sounds cooler than historical materialism or something similar. Organised religions take moral messages and place them alongside messages in support of things obviously meant to divide classes, such as race, gender and sexuality-based discrimination, and an aura of lofty idealism and spirituality which is compelling, especially to people who don't know much, like feudal peasants. Religion was useful when historically there was not much scientific knowledge, because it helped the ruling class to control ideas even more, since without science, what the subjugated classes were told by them (which was paraded as "faith,") was literally the only set of ideas available - and it sounded good too, with all its colourful stories. Now the bourgeoisie keep religion, as it is still a useful tool.
http://commissaress.wordpress.com...

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Economic Left: -10.00
Social Libertarian: -7.13

Yes, I am an evil godless commie.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/21/2014 9:14:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

Another perfect example of being narrow. Why can't you ever discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to drag the conversation back down to conservative Christianity, even though I've said several times that I'm not a religious person? It's almost as if that's the only argument you know, and trying to think between the lines just takes too much energy. Not once did I say "believe in Jesus and live forever," but it seems the facts don't matter to you. All you are going to do is keep arguing in any way which proves that you are totally right and there is no compromise. Anyone can do that.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/21/2014 9:47:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 5:35:57 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

Why is it a bad thought to want to live forever? I would be a theist in a heartbeat if I had convincing evidence that an afterlife existed.

It's not a bad thought. I was merely pointing out that different people feel different things, and it's true across-the-board.

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

Fine.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists.

In what way is an atheist cowardly? A believer could be accused of being afraid of death. What is the atheist accused of?

I didn't say that being an atheist necessary makes one a coward, nor that being a believer does the same. What I said was that either group is capable of producing a certain number of cowards. Neither one of them is totally heroic.

Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Who's fighting? We're exchanging ideas.

I said that the French and English fought, not that we are fighting. I like to exchange ideas, especially with someone who is willing to actually read what I say and to consider it before answering. I do honestly want to learn what other people think.
dee-em
Posts: 6,497
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10/21/2014 9:59:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:47:13 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:35:57 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

Why is it a bad thought to want to live forever? I would be a theist in a heartbeat if I had convincing evidence that an afterlife existed.

It's not a bad thought. I was merely pointing out that different people feel different things, and it's true across-the-board.

If you look back at your paragraph, the implication was certainly there.

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

Fine.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists.

In what way is an atheist cowardly? A believer could be accused of being afraid of death. What is the atheist accused of?

I didn't say that being an atheist necessary makes one a coward, nor that being a believer does the same. What I said was that either group is capable of producing a certain number of cowards. Neither one of them is totally heroic.

What was your point then? You seem to make statements and then back away from defending them.

Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Who's fighting? We're exchanging ideas.

I said that the French and English fought, not that we are fighting. I like to exchange ideas, especially with someone who is willing to actually read what I say and to consider it before answering. I do honestly want to learn what other people think.

Again, the implication was there and again you seek to disown it.

No problem though. I would hope we are all here to exchange ideas and learn from each other.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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10/21/2014 10:21:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To restore the Father-child relationship God intended between himself and mankind. It was severed due to disobedience from lack of trust. God is perfect and cannot tolerate sin or those with it, even minor sins, so God came down as a man without sin to be under the wrath (capital punishment) His perfect justice requires for breaking His laws (sin). Christians are followers of Christ. He said to his disciples "go throughout the world and make disciples of all people." These disciples are people who recognize that they are not perfect, and that imperfection will not be tolerated, so they must repent (turn from sinful ways), then trust Christ as the only legitimate way back to God. "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me." Once pardoned from the punishment due sinners, we are to love God by doing as He commands. "My sheep know my voice" and "If you love me, you will keep my commands."
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/21/2014 10:33:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:14:50 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

Another perfect example of being narrow. Why can't you ever discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to drag the conversation back down to conservative Christianity, even though I've said several times that I'm not a religious person? It's almost as if that's the only argument you know, and trying to think between the lines just takes too much energy. Not once did I say "believe in Jesus and live forever," but it seems the facts don't matter to you. All you are going to do is keep arguing in any way which proves that you are totally right and there is no compromise. Anyone can do that.

It matters ought what you said the topic is the purpose of christianity.
That purpose is:
Jesus saved you from death you just have to believe.
Ergo your not dead when you die.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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10/21/2014 10:37:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is the accusation that Christianity is an invention of tyrants and priestly castes to control people. These commands and what Christ said do not line up well with dictator's wishes, many times. We are to submit to the ruling authorities, most of the time, except when it contradicts God's commands. Jesus also said "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth."

Not exactly a glowing endorsement of those who supposedly use Christianity to suppress people. Especially hard to explain for those with these arguments are the many many times Jesus commanded his disciples to remember his words. That's done with the Bible. Which includes a scathing criticism of tyrants as quoted above. Using select quotes might serve a tyrant's purpose, but in context the religion doesn't help them, it condemns their behavior!

Furthermore, in Daniel, Jesus is the Rock that crushes all Earthly empires (and their leaders). Religions centered around human rulers usually paint themselves as untouchable.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/21/2014 11:38:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:37:14 PM, Skynet wrote:
There is the accusation that Christianity is an invention of tyrants and priestly castes to control people. These commands and what Christ said do not line up well with dictator's wishes, many times. We are to submit to the ruling authorities, most of the time, except when it contradicts God's commands. Jesus also said "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth."

Not exactly a glowing endorsement of those who supposedly use Christianity to suppress people. Especially hard to explain for those with these arguments are the many many times Jesus commanded his disciples to remember his words. That's done with the Bible. Which includes a scathing criticism of tyrants as quoted above. Using select quotes might serve a tyrant's purpose, but in context the religion doesn't help them, it condemns their behavior!

Furthermore, in Daniel, Jesus is the Rock that crushes all Earthly empires (and their leaders). Religions centered around human rulers usually paint themselves as untouchable.

Jesus is never mentioned in daniel.
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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10/22/2014 3:28:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 11:53:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

In what sense are you asking?
It's just a simple question , What purpose does it serve?
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/22/2014 8:23:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:59:11 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:47:13 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:35:57 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

Why is it a bad thought to want to live forever? I would be a theist in a heartbeat if I had convincing evidence that an afterlife existed.

It's not a bad thought. I was merely pointing out that different people feel different things, and it's true across-the-board.

If you look back at your paragraph, the implication was certainly there.

Well, maybe you see some implication, but it was certainly not intended.

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

Fine.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists.

In what way is an atheist cowardly? A believer could be accused of being afraid of death. What is the atheist accused of?

I didn't say that being an atheist necessary makes one a coward, nor that being a believer does the same. What I said was that either group is capable of producing a certain number of cowards. Neither one of them is totally heroic.

What was your point then? You seem to make statements and then back away from defending them.

I'm not backing away from anything. I inferred that cowardly atheists and cowardly theists are equally likely to exist, and they are. Yet I constantly see one group accusing the other of being cowardly, which makes no sense at all. Some traits are simply the traits of humans, and not specific to atheism or theism.

Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Who's fighting? We're exchanging ideas.

I said that the French and English fought, not that we are fighting. I like to exchange ideas, especially with someone who is willing to actually read what I say and to consider it before answering. I do honestly want to learn what other people think.

Again, the implication was there and again you seek to disown it.

No, again there was no implication. I merely gave an example of how people can tend to fight over meaningless things, and didn't intend to make the claim that we were fighting here, although you do seem to be becoming contentious.

No problem though. I would hope we are all here to exchange ideas and learn from each other.

I would hope so, too. It's a point that I've been trying to make for a very long time.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/22/2014 8:26:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:33:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:14:50 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

Another perfect example of being narrow. Why can't you ever discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to drag the conversation back down to conservative Christianity, even though I've said several times that I'm not a religious person? It's almost as if that's the only argument you know, and trying to think between the lines just takes too much energy. Not once did I say "believe in Jesus and live forever," but it seems the facts don't matter to you. All you are going to do is keep arguing in any way which proves that you are totally right and there is no compromise. Anyone can do that.

It matters ought what you said the topic is the purpose of christianity.
That purpose is:
Jesus saved you from death you just have to believe.
Ergo your not dead when you die.

Why are you saying that? Is it something which you believe? Are you a Christian? I've certainly never made the claim that believing Jesus was God's son will save a person from going to Heaven. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell. I do believe there is a purpose to our existence and meaning in our lives, but what does that have to do with believing in Jesus or living forever?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/22/2014 8:28:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 8:26:49 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:33:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:14:50 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

Another perfect example of being narrow. Why can't you ever discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to drag the conversation back down to conservative Christianity, even though I've said several times that I'm not a religious person? It's almost as if that's the only argument you know, and trying to think between the lines just takes too much energy. Not once did I say "believe in Jesus and live forever," but it seems the facts don't matter to you. All you are going to do is keep arguing in any way which proves that you are totally right and there is no compromise. Anyone can do that.

It matters ought what you said the topic is the purpose of christianity.
That purpose is:
Jesus saved you from death you just have to believe.
Ergo your not dead when you die.

Why are you saying that? Is it something which you believe? Are you a Christian? I've certainly never made the claim that believing Jesus was God's son will save a person from going to Heaven. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell. I do believe there is a purpose to our existence and meaning in our lives, but what does that have to do with believing in Jesus or living forever?

I don't believe anybody can be that dense.
CYA.
dee-em
Posts: 6,497
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10/22/2014 10:19:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 8:23:09 PM, Idealist wrote:

I'm not backing away from anything. I inferred that cowardly atheists and cowardly theists are equally likely to exist, and they are. Yet I constantly see one group accusing the other of being cowardly, which makes no sense at all. Some traits are simply the traits of humans, and not specific to atheism or theism.

Oh please, if you are going to argue a case then argue it. Some people have black hair and some people have blonde hair. Yeah. If we were discussing Scandinavians as opposed to Greeks then there would be a marked difference in make up. Context is the issue.

The context of the comment to which you responded was about people who want to continue living after they die. The inference there is that many people fear the black abyss of non-existence associated with death. This is undeniable. Atheists dread it too. However, we have the fortitude to look reality in the eye and say that we will not surrender to wishful thinking without objective evidence. In that respect we show more courage than many believers who cling to the hope of eternal existence.

You may say that this is not the prime motivation of many believers. However, the doctrine of personal resurrection after death is one of the earliest core Christian beliefs. It was undoubtedly one of the key factors in the appeal of Christianity over, say, Judaism. Therefore I think it is valid to say that, at least in this specific area, atheists hold a braver outlook than some of their Christian counterparts.
Obed
Posts: 463
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10/23/2014 3:24:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To be reconciled to God.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/23/2014 6:58:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 8:28:29 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:26:49 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:33:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:14:50 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

Another perfect example of being narrow. Why can't you ever discuss the issue at hand instead of trying to drag the conversation back down to conservative Christianity, even though I've said several times that I'm not a religious person? It's almost as if that's the only argument you know, and trying to think between the lines just takes too much energy. Not once did I say "believe in Jesus and live forever," but it seems the facts don't matter to you. All you are going to do is keep arguing in any way which proves that you are totally right and there is no compromise. Anyone can do that.

It matters ought what you said the topic is the purpose of christianity.
That purpose is:
Jesus saved you from death you just have to believe.
Ergo your not dead when you die.

Why are you saying that? Is it something which you believe? Are you a Christian? I've certainly never made the claim that believing Jesus was God's son will save a person from going to Heaven. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell. I do believe there is a purpose to our existence and meaning in our lives, but what does that have to do with believing in Jesus or living forever?

I don't believe anybody can be that dense.
CYA.

Apparently they can. I've asked you more than once, yet only keep getting round-about answers.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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10/23/2014 7:07:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:19:27 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:23:09 PM, Idealist wrote:

I'm not backing away from anything. I inferred that cowardly atheists and cowardly theists are equally likely to exist, and they are. Yet I constantly see one group accusing the other of being cowardly, which makes no sense at all. Some traits are simply the traits of humans, and not specific to atheism or theism.

Oh please, if you are going to argue a case then argue it. Some people have black hair and some people have blonde hair. Yeah. If we were discussing Scandinavians as opposed to Greeks then there would be a marked difference in make up. Context is the issue.

And I addressed that topic. I said that I thought it was pointless to assume that people become religious simply because they don't want to die. No one is capable of truly believing something they don't.

The context of the comment to which you responded was about people who want to continue living after they die. The inference there is that many people fear the black abyss of non-existence associated with death. This is undeniable. Atheists dread it too. However, we have the fortitude to look reality in the eye and say that we will not surrender to wishful thinking without objective evidence. In that respect we show more courage than many believers who cling to the hope of eternal existence.

If atheists have this great fortitude, then why are so many spending fortunes to freeze their bodies, their heads, or just their brains in the blind hope that someone might someday find a way to revive them and give them new life? Why are they searching so frantically for ways to extend their lives beyond any normal expectancy despite the fact that overcrowding is one of our biggest problems? Atheists are trying to achieve all the same things that believers are, only they are attempting to do it through science.

You may say that this is not the prime motivation of many believers. However, the doctrine of personal resurrection after death is one of the earliest core Christian beliefs. It was undoubtedly one of the key factors in the appeal of Christianity over, say, Judaism. Therefore I think it is valid to say that, at least in this specific area, atheists hold a braver outlook than some of their Christian counterparts.

The early Egyptians didn't believe in life after death, unless you happened to be the Pharoah. The same was true of many other religions. It wasn't until later that it became a common theme, so you can hardly say it was a founding principle of religion. This is just another case of making an emotional and subjective attack while avoiding the facts.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/23/2014 7:12:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:07:56 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:19:27 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:23:09 PM, Idealist wrote:

I'm not backing away from anything. I inferred that cowardly atheists and cowardly theists are equally likely to exist, and they are. Yet I constantly see one group accusing the other of being cowardly, which makes no sense at all. Some traits are simply the traits of humans, and not specific to atheism or theism.

Oh please, if you are going to argue a case then argue it. Some people have black hair and some people have blonde hair. Yeah. If we were discussing Scandinavians as opposed to Greeks then there would be a marked difference in make up. Context is the issue.

And I addressed that topic. I said that I thought it was pointless to assume that people become religious simply because they don't want to die. No one is capable of truly believing something they don't.

The context of the comment to which you responded was about people who want to continue living after they die. The inference there is that many people fear the black abyss of non-existence associated with death. This is undeniable. Atheists dread it too. However, we have the fortitude to look reality in the eye and say that we will not surrender to wishful thinking without objective evidence. In that respect we show more courage than many believers who cling to the hope of eternal existence.

If atheists have this great fortitude, then why are so many spending fortunes to freeze their bodies, their heads, or just their brains in the blind hope that someone might someday find a way to revive them and give them new life? Why are they searching so frantically for ways to extend their lives beyond any normal expectancy despite the fact that overcrowding is one of our biggest problems? Atheists are trying to achieve all the same things that believers are, only they are attempting to do it through science.

You may say that this is not the prime motivation of many believers. However, the doctrine of personal resurrection after death is one of the earliest core Christian beliefs. It was undoubtedly one of the key factors in the appeal of Christianity over, say, Judaism. Therefore I think it is valid to say that, at least in this specific area, atheists hold a braver outlook than some of their Christian counterparts.

The early Egyptians didn't believe in life after death, unless you happened to be the Pharoah. The same was true of many other religions. It wasn't until later that it became a common theme, so you can hardly say it was a founding principle of religion. This is just another case of making an emotional and subjective attack while avoiding the facts.

So many is HOW many? I mean really.
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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10/23/2014 9:12:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

I love how you always reciprocate the level of insight of the post you are responding to.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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10/23/2014 9:21:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 9:12:55 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:27:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 12:11:41 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:25:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 9:46:46 PM, ATHOS wrote:
What is the purpose of Christianity?

To not be dead when you die.

You know, I've heard the same claim you are intimating here at least a thousand times on internet forums, but I don't think they are intellectually honest. What makes you, or anyone else, qualified to know whether a "believer" is more swayed by the thought of death than a "non-believer'? If that's the only reason they have for claiming to be "good" by their own standards then aren't they automatically excluded? Don't most religions say that thinking bad thoughts is just as bad as doing bad things?

I was told once that I would likely die in 90 days or less. I was misdiagnosed for a rare form of cancer. There is no way I could ever explain why, but those were without a doubt the most peaceful days in my life, until the oncologist did a bone-marrow aspiration and pronounced me "clean." I wasn't a religious person, and that was before I began my search for the truth, but I have always had a spiritual core.

The world is as full of "cowardly" believers as it is of "cowardly" atheists. Testing shows that those with some system of strong belief are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to thrive, but to me that just makes sense. But too many people these days are grasping at the thinnest straws possible, looking for even the tiniest ways to damage the image of people on "the other side," and that seems fruitless. We can be 99% alike, but our difference in spiritual belief condemns us into enmity. It sounds a lot like the French and English fighting off-an-on for a thousand years over whether or not the wine actually turns to blood when you swallow it. Totally pointless and a wast of time. A wise purpose should be able to consider ideas even if they strongly disbelieve them. There just seems to be something about mankind in general which causes us to fight each other for the flimsiest reasons.

Umm, yeah right.
Believe in jesus and live forever.
Got any more important message?
Christianity in a nutshell.
To not be dead when you die.

I love how you always reciprocate the level of insight of the post you are responding to.

There's actually more insight in my post but thanks anyway.
dee-em
Posts: 6,497
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10/24/2014 8:23:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:07:56 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:19:27 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:23:09 PM, Idealist wrote:

I'm not backing away from anything. I inferred that cowardly atheists and cowardly theists are equally likely to exist, and they are. Yet I constantly see one group accusing the other of being cowardly, which makes no sense at all. Some traits are simply the traits of humans, and not specific to atheism or theism.

Oh please, if you are going to argue a case then argue it. Some people have black hair and some people have blonde hair. Yeah. If we were discussing Scandinavians as opposed to Greeks then there would be a marked difference in make up. Context is the issue.

And I addressed that topic. I said that I thought it was pointless to assume that people become religious simply because they don't want to die. No one is capable of truly believing something they don't.

Now that's more like it, you are making your case. Let's address your points one by one.

Do you know how marketing and advertising work? It's about creating selling points for a product, be they real or a figment of the ad man's imagination. Eternal life is a huge selling point for Christianity and people form beliefs based on such selling points. It's not about forcing anyone against their wishes but about persuading or seducing them to buy the product. Sometimes that is done by playing on their fears. You can see it here on this sub-forum with the constant chatter about who is going to heaven and who will end up in hell. So yes, the afterlife is an attractive selling feature of Christianity and it also serves as a harsh deterrent from leaving.

The context of the comment to which you responded was about people who want to continue living after they die. The inference there is that many people fear the black abyss of non-existence associated with death. This is undeniable. Atheists dread it too. However, we have the fortitude to look reality in the eye and say that we will not surrender to wishful thinking without objective evidence. In that respect we show more courage than many believers who cling to the hope of eternal existence.

If atheists have this great fortitude, then why are so many spending fortunes to freeze their bodies, their heads, or just their brains in the blind hope that someone might someday find a way to revive them and give them new life?

So many? How many and what proportion are atheists? I would like to see the figures on that please.

Why are they searching so frantically for ways to extend their lives beyond any normal expectancy despite the fact that overcrowding is one of our biggest problems?

That's ridiculous. Normal life expectancy used to be 30 or 40 years. Now, in developed countries, it is more like 80. What is 'normal'? If you contracted syphilis would you take medication or just die? Extending life further is no different to taking medicines when you are sick. Who wouldn't if they had the opportunity and resources?

Atheists are trying to achieve all the same things that believers are, only they are attempting to do it through science.

Firstly, you are just asserting that it is only atheists. Secondly, there is a vast difference between a small extension of life and eternal life. Thirdly, science offers at least a tiny possibility of achieving what it claims. Religion just offers wishful thinking.

You may say that this is not the prime motivation of many believers. However, the doctrine of personal resurrection after death is one of the earliest core Christian beliefs. It was undoubtedly one of the key factors in the appeal of Christianity over, say, Judaism. Therefore I think it is valid to say that, at least in this specific area, atheists hold a braver outlook than some of their Christian counterparts.

The early Egyptians didn't believe in life after death, unless you happened to be the Pharoah. The same was true of many other religions. It wasn't until later that it became a common theme, so you can hardly say it was a founding principle of religion.

I didn't. I said it was a key differentiator for Christianity over rival products and probably a major factor in its uptake.

This is just another case of making an emotional and subjective attack while avoiding the facts.

I'm not attacking you and you are the one becoming somewhat emotional. What facts have I avoided?