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Faith

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/21/2014 3:30:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

Why not?
Sin is nothing but a transgression of the law according to I John 3:4.
Which law do you keep breaking and can't stop breaking?
If you can't stop breaking some laws, you obviously don't want to stop.
Don't you understand that according to the bible stories, Jesus gave believers the power to stop sinning?
Why do you think Jesus told people to go and sin no more if they could not stop sinning? ( John 5:14, John 8:11 )
Why do you think Jesus set a sinless example to follow? ( 1 Peter 2:21)
If you follow his example you cannot sin any more than he did. If you do sin you are not following his example but you are of the devil according to 1 John 3:8.

It seems all Christians who continue to sin are of the devil according to 1John 3:8.

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/21/2014 3:40:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 3:30:57 AM, Skyangel wrote:
If you can't stop breaking some laws, you obviously don't want to stop.
OR they can't stop because they don't (as I believe) have a freewill!
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/21/2014 4:48:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Bible is wrong. It's belief devoid of evidence.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 7:24:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 3:30:57 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

Why not?
Sin is nothing but a transgression of the law according to I John 3:4.
Which law do you keep breaking and can't stop breaking?
If you can't stop breaking some laws, you obviously don't want to stop.
Don't you understand that according to the bible stories, Jesus gave believers the power to stop sinning?
Why do you think Jesus told people to go and sin no more if they could not stop sinning? ( John 5:14, John 8:11 )
Why do you think Jesus set a sinless example to follow? ( 1 Peter 2:21)
If you follow his example you cannot sin any more than he did. If you do sin you are not following his example but you are of the devil according to 1 John 3:8.

It seems all Christians who continue to sin are of the devil according to 1John 3:8.

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ lived as an example so he would be crucified clean and absorb every sin we would commit. He died so people like us would get to heaven. Jesus told them to sin no more as in not to do it on purpose, but Jesus knew we would sin even when we don't know it. So he offered himself as a sacrifice for our torture.

The Apostle Paul would later reveal that we were dead. Everybody was dead in our transgressions and that its grace alone that saved us. He also says nobidy is righteous or pure, except one. Galatians 2:21 states it simply. If righteousness comes by the law or works, then Christ died in vain. I do not frustrate the grace of God.

The apostles taught the same thing, except they added that grace gave a transformation that would turn people to do good works. When it comes to politics and churches, that's where we get fundamentalists who recruit abortion clinic bombers, assassins and terrorists.

We cannot fully stop sinning. If you look in the Greek/Hebrew word for it, repent means "to have a change of mind." And I have repented by this.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 8:01:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

None of God's prophets and saints saw our invisible Creator when He came into their minds to speak to them, which is the moment called "faith". Faith is knowing our invisible Creator without the ability to observe Him.

God chose believers to listen to those of us ( saints ) who speak for our Creator. Believers don't reject the voice of the Lord ( gospel ) as we testify to the invisible Word where we all exist as God's people.

The visible things of this universe ( tree of the knowledge of good and evil ) is what kept God's people from knowing our invisible Creator and His thoughts ( Christ ).
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 8:26:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

Christians believe there own interpretations of what they read in a book instead of listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying His commandments, which is the only way they will learn who they are and how they were created. They would also learn about the strong delusion of Christianity and how it kept them from knowing the Truth.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 8:45:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?

Why don't you respond to the points I made?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 8:50:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:45:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?

Why don't you respond to the points I made?

Fine. I believe that I will love my family. Will I forget them, I don't know. Every smart Christian is an agnostic about the afterlife since we can't know for sure. So your asking me about my state of love, if it will carry into heaven and if it doesn't then why would I believe in that. I don't believe that and I don't know. When I said way we think and our bodies may change, I mean it won't be what we are used to. We could be cells in heaven for all I know. We could be ghosts. I don't know. That's my point. We don't know, but if heaven exists, then we imagine what else could happen and there's a probability it is true, but there's a chance it's not.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 9:06:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:50:50 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?

Why don't you respond to the points I made?

Fine. I believe that I will love my family. Will I forget them, I don't know.
If you forget your family how can you still love them? If you do forget them will you still be YOU?
Every smart Christian is an agnostic about the afterlife since we can't know for sure.
There can't be many smart ones then, because most profess to know exactly.
So your asking me about my state of love, if it will carry into heaven and if it doesn't then why would I believe in that. I don't believe that and I don't know.
It's not a matter of what you want, it's simply what your bible claims.
You will no longer sin.
You will be happy without tears, even if your most loved are suffering for eternity.
How do YOU think you could possibly do that? What does your god need to do to you in order that you will be such a heartless bastard?
When I said way we think and our bodies may change, I mean it won't be what we are used to.
It's not your body under discussion.
We could be cells in heaven for all I know. We could be ghosts. I don't know. That's my point. We don't know, but if heaven exists, then we imagine what else could happen and there's a probability it is true, but there's a chance it's not.
So you are happy to not be YOU after working so hard to get to heaven?
When you get to heaven it's quite alright for your god to just create another creature who can't sin and without your memories and have nothing to do with YOU?

Good LUCK, cos that is your heaven. Just try to think.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 9:11:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:06:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:50:50 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?

Why don't you respond to the points I made?

Fine. I believe that I will love my family. Will I forget them, I don't know.
If you forget your family how can you still love them? If you do forget them will you still be YOU?
Every smart Christian is an agnostic about the afterlife since we can't know for sure.
There can't be many smart ones then, because most profess to know exactly.
So your asking me about my state of love, if it will carry into heaven and if it doesn't then why would I believe in that. I don't believe that and I don't know.
It's not a matter of what you want, it's simply what your bible claims.
You will no longer sin.
You will be happy without tears, even if your most loved are suffering for eternity.
How do YOU think you could possibly do that? What does your god need to do to you in order that you will be such a heartless bastard?
When I said way we think and our bodies may change, I mean it won't be what we are used to.
It's not your body under discussion.
We could be cells in heaven for all I know. We could be ghosts. I don't know. That's my point. We don't know, but if heaven exists, then we imagine what else could happen and there's a probability it is true, but there's a chance it's not.
So you are happy to not be YOU after working so hard to get to heaven?
When you get to heaven it's quite alright for your god to just create another creature who can't sin and without your memories and have nothing to do with YOU?

Good LUCK, cos that is your heaven. Just try to think.

To sum it up, i'm a universalist. I believe that because of Christ's death, everybody is going to heaven. And even for the people before Christ or before Revelation, I believe the verse where Jesus says he will drag people to him. So I believe he is going to Hell and is going to rob the devil of the prisoners there and send them to heaven. But currently, I believe everybody is going to heaven by faith and that if one doesn't have faith, they can get into heaven if they take a spiritual journey before going to heaven.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 9:20:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:11:05 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:06:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:50:50 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:34:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:14:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:01:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:44:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:15:01 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 11:23:59 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:58:32 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

We can't truly stop sinning. You do realize that right?

So you continue to sin in heaven?

Not sure. I don't think so since if there is a heaven, it is claiming to be different than the world we live in. So maybe we'll occupy our time with something or whatever.

Since you can't stop sinning, according to you, then you must continue to sin in heaven or whatever afterlife you think you will get.

We can't stop sinning while alive on earth. If we do get to a heaven, then the possibility that our mind or bodies function differently can possibly exist.

So you won't be YOU.
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you in heaven can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
Is your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

What makes you think I believe people are in hell or will stay in Hell?

Why don't you respond to the points I made?

Fine. I believe that I will love my family. Will I forget them, I don't know.
If you forget your family how can you still love them? If you do forget them will you still be YOU?
Every smart Christian is an agnostic about the afterlife since we can't know for sure.
There can't be many smart ones then, because most profess to know exactly.
So your asking me about my state of love, if it will carry into heaven and if it doesn't then why would I believe in that. I don't believe that and I don't know.
It's not a matter of what you want, it's simply what your bible claims.
You will no longer sin.
You will be happy without tears, even if your most loved are suffering for eternity.
How do YOU think you could possibly do that? What does your god need to do to you in order that you will be such a heartless bastard?
When I said way we think and our bodies may change, I mean it won't be what we are used to.
It's not your body under discussion.
We could be cells in heaven for all I know. We could be ghosts. I don't know. That's my point. We don't know, but if heaven exists, then we imagine what else could happen and there's a probability it is true, but there's a chance it's not.
So you are happy to not be YOU after working so hard to get to heaven?
When you get to heaven it's quite alright for your god to just create another creature who can't sin and without your memories and have nothing to do with YOU?

Good LUCK, cos that is your heaven. Just try to think.

To sum it up, i'm a universalist. I believe that because of Christ's death, everybody is going to heaven. And even for the people before Christ or before Revelation, I believe the verse where Jesus says he will drag people to him. So I believe he is going to Hell and is going to rob the devil of the prisoners there and send them to heaven. But currently, I believe everybody is going to heaven by faith and that if one doesn't have faith, they can get into heaven if they take a spiritual journey before going to heaven.
So you believe that you are better than every lifeform and will live forever? So your fear of death is assuaged? How about if you just accept your mortality?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 9:36:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I believe we are all equal Bulprof. As mortals and spirits. Everything you said about me applies to everybody else.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/21/2014 9:39:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

I have as close a relationship with God and Christ as any human can, and that is the dominating factor in my life.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 9:51:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:36:42 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I believe we are all equal Bulprof. As mortals and spirits. Everything you said about me applies to everybody else.

And yet you avoid all of my questions. You even avoid the question of non humans. You may notice that I included them.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 9:53:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:39:54 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems that a few members in this place think faith is some kind of belief without evidence. However that is not how the bible describes faith.

Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The above verse claims that faith is something of substance and it is the evidence of invisible things. That is basically the invisible made visible.
Therefore faith must be observable. Otherwise you don't have faith at all.

Example...
Love and hate and any emotion or attitude are invisible on their own. No person can hand me a chemical and convince me that particular chemical is love or hate or any other attitude or emotion. However, attitudes and emotions are manifest through the actions of humans. If I never saw an act of love or hate, I would never have any faith that these things exist.
The reason I have faith that attitudes and emotions exist is because I can observe them in action through physical bodies.
To claim to have any faith in an attitude without actually observing the manifestation of that attitude would be to have faith in something I did not understand and never saw. I would have no evidence to support my faith. My faith would therefore be unwarranted and totally useless to anyone including myself.

Believers in anything at all ought to be able to provide evidence of what they believe in to convince others that their faith is warranted.

There is no point is telling anyone you have faith in God if you cannot show them the God you believe in just as there would be no point in telling anyone that you believe your neighbour owns a car if you have never seen the car and your neighbour cannot show them the car either.

Faith without works or without action is dead or non existent according to James 2:20-26.
Faith without evidence is also nonexistent.

A person cannot claim to have faith that Jesus took away all their sins and cleansed them from sin if they continue to sin. If they continue to sin, their faith is not evidenced through their actions. Their actions prove they have more faith in the devil than they do in Jesus since they are following sin instead of following righteousness.

Believers claim to have faith in God but their faith is in a fantasy character and no more valid than a childs faith in Santa. To prove you have faith in God you need to prove that God is real and not just some invisible supernatural entity like a fairy or a leprechaun.

How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

I have as close a relationship with God and Christ as any human can, and that is the dominating factor in my life.

Yeah and you boiled water in your freezer. You wouldn't know jesus if he was a boil on your bum.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 9:59:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:51:02 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:36:42 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I believe we are all equal Bulprof. As mortals and spirits. Everything you said about me applies to everybody else.

And yet you avoid all of my questions. You even avoid the question of non humans. You may notice that I included them.

Then can you say them again since I didn't get your questions.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 10:06:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:59:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:51:02 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:36:42 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I believe we are all equal Bulprof. As mortals and spirits. Everything you said about me applies to everybody else.

And yet you avoid all of my questions. You even avoid the question of non humans. You may notice that I included them.

Then can you say them again since I didn't get your questions.

So you won't be YOU?
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you are in heaven you can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
If your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/21/2014 10:32:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This sinning while born again is not hard to understand. Paul tries to explain I do believe in romans without looking it up and John mentions that God is faithful to forgive in john 1 or 2 I do believe but back to the issue of sinning while being born again in this flesh or life. The life of Christ is what one is born of or into once born again and that nature or life is sinless and can"t sin or it"s not of Christ.

But yet while here in this body the human nature still exists, flesh as Paul explains is not a inheritor of the Kingdom of God and will not change. God"s nature is justified and human nature is not.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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10/21/2014 10:42:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:32:47 AM, DPMartin wrote:
This sinning while born again is not hard to understand. Paul tries to explain I do believe in romans without looking it up and John mentions that God is faithful to forgive in john 1 or 2 I do believe but back to the issue of sinning while being born again in this flesh or life. The life of Christ is what one is born of or into once born again and that nature or life is sinless and can"t sin or it"s not of Christ.

But yet while here in this body the human nature still exists, flesh as Paul explains is not a inheritor of the Kingdom of God and will not change. God"s nature is justified and human nature is not.

Yeah so YOU aren't YOU anymore.
So WTF did you be so good for, why did you do everything you were supposed to do in order to achieve paradise and then it's not you who gets there but some new creation that is not you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/21/2014 10:52:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:06:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:59:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:51:02 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:36:42 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I believe we are all equal Bulprof. As mortals and spirits. Everything you said about me applies to everybody else.

And yet you avoid all of my questions. You even avoid the question of non humans. You may notice that I included them.

Then can you say them again since I didn't get your questions.

So you won't be YOU?
You and your religion claims that YOU can't stop sinning.
So if the you are in heaven you can stop sinning then it can't be YOU.
This is your doctrine, why can't you understand it?
Your doctrine says that YOU will be ecstatically happy, even if your most precious loved ones are burning for eternity.
How do YOU think YOU could possibly do that?
If your love is so meaningless why would you believe that your love of god is worthy of your going to heaven?
In heaven you will not sin, even though your god says you cannot stop sinning, you will no longer love your most loved people/family.
Do YOU really believe that?

I did answer these questions. I said I don't know because I lack the knowledge to know the answer. Rather I lack the experience. So I don't know. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you want.
12_13
Posts: 1,362
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10/21/2014 11:08:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 10:22:10 PM, Skyangel wrote:
How many of you can literally see God in reality and show that God to other people?
If you cannot, your faith is in vain and no better than a childs faith in Santa.

According to the Bible, God is love.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

I show love to you, by telling that :)

I think faith means that I am faithful / loyal to God. That means I keep his words faithfully.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/21/2014 6:06:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 3:40:28 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/21/2014 3:30:57 AM, Skyangel wrote:
If you can't stop breaking some laws, you obviously don't want to stop.
OR they can't stop because they don't (as I believe) have a freewill!

Apparently the devil forces them to do it against their will.