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Offensive War to Spread Islam

Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/18/2010 10:28:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Okay, I have not read the whole thing. But a cursory examination should put paid to Mirza's claims that Islam has never launched offensive wars.
http://www.answering-islam.org...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/18/2010 12:58:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This website 'answering-islam.com' that is being run by Christians is probably one of the worst on the Internet.

answering-christianity.com

Luckily there is one that refutes it right away, called 'answering-christianity.com'.

If you want some information about this subject, I will gladly refer you to books that explain everything very well.

http://muslimbookmark.com...

This book was written by a non-Muslim. There are other books about this subject, too. I don't mind buying it to one who is really interested, because that will save a lot of my time here.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/18/2010 11:27:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/18/2010 1:48:28 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Umm...yea, Islam is generally against forced conversions. Enough said.

Technically a seperate issue.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/18/2010 11:31:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/18/2010 12:58:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
This website 'answering-islam.com' that is being run by Christians is probably one of the worst on the Internet.

answering-christianity.com

Luckily there is one that refutes it right away, called 'answering-christianity.com'.

If you want some information about this subject, I will gladly refer you to books that explain everything very well.

http://muslimbookmark.com...

This book was written by a non-Muslim. There are other books about this subject, too. I don't mind buying it to one who is really interested, because that will save a lot of my time here.

What about Islamic sources then?
http://www.islamicity.com...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/19/2010 10:40:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/18/2010 11:31:55 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about Islamic sources then?
http://www.islamicity.com...
I see something else here.

For instance, it says, "In Syria, for example, many Christians who had been involved in bitter theological disputes with Byzantine authorities- and persecuted for it- welcomed the coming of Islam as an end to tyranny. And in Egypt, which 'Amr ibn al-'As took from the Byzantines after a daring march across the Sinai Peninsula, the Coptic Christians not only welcomed the Arabs, but enthusiastically assisted them."
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/19/2010 10:43:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:40:36 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/18/2010 11:31:55 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about Islamic sources then?
http://www.islamicity.com...
I see something else here.

For instance, it says, "In Syria, for example, many Christians who had been involved in bitter theological disputes with Byzantine authorities- and persecuted for it- welcomed the coming of Islam as an end to tyranny. And in Egypt, which 'Amr ibn al-'As took from the Byzantines after a daring march across the Sinai Peninsula, the Coptic Christians not only welcomed the Arabs, but enthusiastically assisted them."

And all the other examples?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/19/2010 10:50:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:43:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
And all the other examples?
There were battles, but as I said, there are battles for good and bad. There were hostile empires before the Muslim one even arose. It appeared that Muslims were the ones to be good in opposing to those empires.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/19/2010 10:54:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
C-N cool it, he knows he's wrong. I'm gonna debate Mirza tomorrow (13am GMT+1) about the birth of Islam and it's imperialist Nature in regards to Christianity. This time and make the debate worth your reading.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 10:56:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:40:36 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/18/2010 11:31:55 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about Islamic sources then?
http://www.islamicity.com...
I see something else here.

For instance, it says, "In Syria, for example, many Christians who had been involved in bitter theological disputes with Byzantine authorities- and persecuted for it- welcomed the coming of Islam as an end to tyranny. And in Egypt, which 'Amr ibn al-'As took from the Byzantines after a daring march across the Sinai Peninsula, the Coptic Christians not only welcomed the Arabs, but enthusiastically assisted them."

I descend form a Coptic Orthodox line so I beg to differ. I live in the UK because of the way Islam treats Christians.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Mirza
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4/19/2010 11:01:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:54:45 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
C-N cool it, he knows he's wrong. I'm gonna debate Mirza tomorrow (13am GMT+1) about the birth of Islam and it's imperialist Nature in regards to Christianity. This time and make the debate worth your reading.
No, you're wrong.

And you want to compare it to Christianity? Then let the resolution be something similar to 'Islam was spread more violently than Christianity'. Thank you in advance.
Mirza
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4/19/2010 11:02:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:56:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
I descend form a Coptic Orthodox line so I beg to differ. I live in the UK because of the way Islam treats Christians.
Maybe you want to debate the Qur'an compared to the Bible in terms of infidels? Let's do it right away.
Mirza
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4/19/2010 11:04:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 10:56:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
I descend form a Coptic Orthodox line so I beg to differ. I live in the UK because of the way Islam treats Christians.
I live in Denmark because Christians wanted to exaggerate Muslims in my native land. Luckily I differentiate between Christians.

If you think the Qur'an treats Christians badly (i.e. tells Muslims to do so), then accept the debate challenge right away. Then we will even have the spread of Islam/Christianity covered, since it is not important what the followers do, but what the religions teach.
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 11:06:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 11:01:48 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 10:54:45 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
C-N cool it, he knows he's wrong. I'm gonna debate Mirza tomorrow (13am GMT+1) about the birth of Islam and it's imperialist Nature in regards to Christianity. This time and make the debate worth your reading.
No, you're wrong.

And you want to compare it to Christianity? Then let the resolution be something similar to 'Islam was spread more violently than Christianity'. Thank you in advance.

Spread?, That makes it easier for me, I have a concept area for my offical debates. It'll be in the first round area read it before you accept.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 11:07:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 11:02:39 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 10:56:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
I descend form a Coptic Orthodox line so I beg to differ. I live in the UK because of the way Islam treats Christians.
Maybe you want to debate the Qur'an compared to the Bible in terms of infidels? Let's do it right away.

Muslims vs Christians
not
Qur'an vs Bible.

+Yeah I agree but so what? It's John 17 or 24 I think.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Mirza
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4/19/2010 11:11:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 11:07:52 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Muslims vs Christians
not
Qur'an vs Bible.

+Yeah I agree but so what? It's John 17 or 24 I think.
Agree? Let's discuss Islam vs Christianity. We can bring the spreading into discussion. Let's see which one of us follows the most peaceful religion.
Mirza
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4/19/2010 11:12:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Besides, what will you use? answering-islam.com. I refer you to books, and you ignore them. I give you facts, you ignore them. You mention conquests. What does that have to do with leading aggressive wars? You can conquer something by fighting a defensive war.
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 11:33:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 11:12:25 AM, Mirza wrote:
Besides, what will you use? answering-islam.com. I refer you to books, and you ignore them. I give you facts, you ignore them. You mention conquests. What does that have to do with leading aggressive wars? You can conquer something by fighting a defensive war.

You'll see then.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Mirza
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4/19/2010 12:02:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:01:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Hahahaha. I knew zetsubou would debate Islam eventually.
He doesn't. He wants to debate something about the spreading. He does not have the courage to debate the Qur'an vs the Bible in terms of infidels.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/19/2010 12:06:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:02:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 12:01:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Hahahaha. I knew zetsubou would debate Islam eventually.
He doesn't. He wants to debate something about the spreading. He does not have the courage to debate the Qur'an vs the Bible in terms of infidels.

Well why would he when he knows he'll lose? He wants to able to continue twisting and distorting the words of the Qur'an to make us look like mass-murderers.
Mirza
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4/19/2010 12:10:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:06:43 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Well why would he when he knows he'll lose? He wants to able to continue twisting and distorting the words of the Qur'an to make us look like mass-murderers.
He wants to come with biased theories about Islam being spread with the sword. And the fact that anyone compares it to Christianity, when we know that it was spread with the spilling of innocent blood across Europe, Africa, Middle East, South America, North America, etc., it disgraceful. Christians enslaved black people when they had the opportunity to. Islam was the religion that called for abolishment of this horrible slavery. It came with something much better, such as humane treatment to prisoners of war. They must be treated nicely no matter of what. I can quote Biblical verses calling for slavery right away. I can quote Biblical verses where God orders men to slaughter children and women. And somebody compares it to the Qur'an and the spread of Islam? Those people are misinformed.
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 12:17:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:06:43 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/19/2010 12:02:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 12:01:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Hahahaha. I knew zetsubou would debate Islam eventually.
He doesn't. He wants to debate something about the spreading. He does not have the courage to debate the Qur'an vs the Bible in terms of infidels.

Well why would he when he knows he'll lose? He wants to able to continue twisting and distorting the words of the Qur'an to make us look like mass-murderers.

It's not the Qur'an, it's MUSLIMS[The qur'an is more peaceful]. I would have accepted any chanllenge from you or Mirza, but I find private debates to be more meaning full than offical ones.

Mirza just won't accept Islam was forced to hold the bloody sword, and does so even today.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
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4/19/2010 12:20:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:10:28 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 12:06:43 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Well why would he when he knows he'll lose? He wants to able to continue twisting and distorting the words of the Qur'an to make us look like mass-murderers.
He wants to come with biased theories about Islam being spread with the sword. And the fact that anyone compares it to Christianity, when we know that it was spread with the spilling of innocent blood across Europe, Africa, Middle East, South America, North America, etc., it disgraceful. Christians enslaved black people when they had the opportunity to. Islam was the religion that called for abolishment of this horrible slavery. It came with something much better, such as humane treatment to prisoners of war. They must be treated nicely no matter of what. I can quote Biblical verses calling for slavery right away. I can quote Biblical verses where God orders men to slaughter children and women. And somebody compares it to the Qur'an and the spread of Islam? Those people are misinformed.

I'm not double standarding, I'll make a criteria, for you to accept. If Islam is so clean you'll accept it.

I'm am living proof of why what you say is utter and complete BS.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/19/2010 12:21:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:17:25 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not the Qur'an, it's MUSLIMS[The qur'an is more peaceful]. I would have accepted any chanllenge from you or Mirza, but I find private debates to be more meaning full than offical ones.

Mirza just won't accept Islam was forced to hold the bloody sword, and does so even today.
No. You don't differentiate between battles (with blood, yes) due to defense and for aggression.

And it is spreading with force today? Nonsense.

Tell me, which Islamic army conquered Indonesia? Say it if you can. Mention one soldier of an Islamic army that conquered it, and I am giving up on this right now. It was spread through traders etc., just like everywhere else. The thing here is that nobody opposed Muslims, unlike Christians in Europe who did.

Also, why are you following a book more violent than the Qur'an? If you think the Qur'an encourages Muslims to fight, then let us debate it. Let's end this discussing with that. Let's see whether the Qur'an will make people kill ever before the Bible.
Mirza
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4/19/2010 12:28:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:20:35 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
I'm not double standarding, I'll make a criteria, for you to accept. If Islam is so clean you'll accept it.
You mention Islam. I am challenging you on a debate about the Qur'an and the Bible on violence on infidels. You want to debate Islam, then let us debate it once and for all.

I'm am living proof of why what you say is utter and complete BS.
http://www.crimesofwar.org...

Who is the guy holding the gun? A Christian. Who are the ones that got killed? Muslims. If you think you are living proof for anything related to Islam, then I tell you that I am living proof who had witnessed a ruined country due to Christians. I am living proof that people who compare Muslims to Christians in violence, and Islam and Christianity in expansion, are to be ashamed of themselves.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/19/2010 12:32:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Thank NATO for preventing Muslims to make Bosnia 100% Muslim in the 90's. Fellow NATO stopped the war right when Muslims were about to crush the terrorists, who were followers of Christianity.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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4/19/2010 12:43:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 12:21:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/19/2010 12:17:25 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not the Qur'an, it's MUSLIMS[The qur'an is more peaceful]. I would have accepted any chanllenge from you or Mirza, but I find private debates to be more meaning full than offical ones.

Mirza just won't accept Islam was forced to hold the bloody sword, and does so even today.
No. You don't differentiate between battles (with blood, yes) due to defense and for aggression.

And it is spreading with force today? Nonsense.

Tell me, which Islamic army conquered Indonesia? Say it if you can. Mention one soldier of an Islamic army that conquered it, and I am giving up on this right now. It was spread through traders etc., just like everywhere else. The thing here is that nobody opposed Muslims, unlike Christians in Europe who did.

Also, why are you following a book more violent than the Qur'an? If you think the Qur'an encourages Muslims to fight, then let us debate it. Let's end this discussing with that. Let's see whether the Qur'an will make people kill ever before the Bible.

Because realistically violence for a cause is better for the cause. Machiavellian Politics of rule.

I also have other reasons not to follow the Qur'an…
'sup DDO -- july 2013