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*Religion Forum Ambassadors 1*

bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/21/2014 11:20:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls .... You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

Well, to be clear: Moderation and banning are moderator actions. I'm not a moderator, even though I work with the mods a lot. This program is not a modding program, it's an Ambassador program. The goal is not to stifle debate or to ban users, but to keep the conduct on an acceptable level without resorting to mod actions.

What you're proposing would be an entirely different kind of program and, while the discussion on it is valuable, I think bluesteel has a thread on a similar subject for discussion in the main forum.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/21/2014 11:23:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:20:20 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls .... You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

Well, to be clear: Moderation and banning are moderator actions. I'm not a moderator, even though I work with the mods a lot. This program is not a modding program, it's an Ambassador program. The goal is not to stifle debate or to ban users, but to keep the conduct on an acceptable level without resorting to mod actions.

What you're proposing would be an entirely different kind of program and, while the discussion on it is valuable, I think bluesteel has a thread on a similar subject for discussion in the main forum.

Yeh, I saw that. Good luck with your ambassador program. If you need any Satanists let me know.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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10/21/2014 5:45:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

Yes, bornofgod would not be considered a troll, for being a troll involves at least some degree of mental stability. Folks like bulproof are actually intelligent enough and mentally stable enough to be thus considered, possibly. Bornofgod is just plain crazy.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/21/2014 5:56:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Thank you, Bladerunner, for putting this together and for selecting me to participate. I am honored. I see a large degree of skepticism about this effort, but I hope that in time we can greatly improve the quality of dialogue on this forum.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 6:03:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 5:56:53 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Thank you, Bladerunner, for putting this together and for selecting me to participate. I am honored. I see a large degree of skepticism about this effort, but I hope that in time we can greatly improve the quality of dialogue on this forum.

VTL Potbelliedgeek
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/21/2014 6:06:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:03:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:56:53 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Thank you, Bladerunner, for putting this together and for selecting me to participate. I am honored. I see a large degree of skepticism about this effort, but I hope that in time we can greatly improve the quality of dialogue on this forum.

VTL Potbelliedgeek

Voting to lynch someone in the religion forum is generally considered a personal attack...

That said, VTL Envisage for full claim + justification on grounds of scummy meta.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/21/2014 6:23:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

While I appreciate your concern, I would also like to point to where I explicitly addressed this:

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Rightnow, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.
This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

Was it that you didn't see that part, or was there some other concern?

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

Well, I would make a few points.

1, that's a Juggle change--it would have to be implemented in the site.

2, I would argue that humanism is not a religious position--it is a philosophical one. Just as you can be a Utilitarian AND an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim, you can be a humanist AND an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim. They address different questions. atheism is included because it is a religious position. Humanism, by contrast, is not one in its own right.

3, that's a bit off topic from this particular post, and I'd prefer this thread not get overly derailed. That said, I'd be more than happy to participate in a discussion on this in another thread.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/21/2014 6:25:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 5:45:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

Yes, bornofgod would not be considered a troll, for being a troll involves at least some degree of mental stability. Folks like bulproof are actually intelligent enough and mentally stable enough to be thus considered, possibly. Bornofgod is just plain crazy.

I should have said something when it was first brought up, instead of merely eliding the references to individual members in my reply. Let's not start this, please.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 6:47:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

None of us make any mistakes because we aren't the creator of our bodies or what we think. Even this OP about making new forum Ambassadors was planned by our Creator and the information He wanted me to share with the ones who formed this new force of protection amongst the forum members was designed by Him.

We don't create life at all. We are experiencing the life that God planned for all of us but from each created being's perspective. The perspectives from each of these few forum members who put together this group of Ambassadors have no idea that God gave one of them the idea and gave the others in the group the thoughts to agree with him.

God planned for me to be in here while this was being put together to use as an analogy of how God's plan called the beast operates.

The "mark of the beast" that you read about in the book of Revelation is a symbolic phrase that shows God putting an idea ( mark of the beast on the forehead ) in the mind of one of His people ( one who doesn't know God and believes he created that idea in his brain ) and has him form ( mark of the beast on his hand ) the new idea into a visible thing that other people can observe such as new words for a language, architectural plan, building technique, new product, or any idea that many people will exalt and believe was their own idea. This means they worship the idea, product, language, or architectural wonder that came from the beast instead of worshiping the invisible Creator who gave His people their thoughts in the first place.

The beast ( God's plan ) was necessary to teach His people to build things with their human hands so that He can use them to help us understand future events and how He created us. By having men build high walls for their buildings, God could teach us saints how He planned to have all these walls fall down at the end of this age such as you read about in this particular prophecy;

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

We know that fire ( heat ) will destroy any visible object in this world to use as analogies to teach us that the visible objects ( including our bodies ) are only illusions that weren't real at all.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

These are just a few examples of why God uses visible objects to teach us His invisible creation that we know as information today. One wavelength of energy is one bit of information, just like a 0 and a 1 used in computer binary code. Think of all the different wavelengths of energy that exist ( infinite ) that can be processed into illusions so perfectly that we thought they were real. We look in a mirror and actually believe we exist because the illusion we are observing was made so perfectly that it appears real.

God has used His quantum physicists to show us that the particles they believe were real are only illusions made from invisible light waves. There's no such thing as hard physical matter. These quantum physicists are beginning to realize this, but only a few of them. They can't get the rest of them to believe what they believe, just like religious people can't get everyone to believe their observations, either.

We are nothing but thoughts in the mind of God and that's all we'll ever be my friend. So enjoy the illusions that He has planned for us in His one plan called Eternal Life. We humans would call this a great program because that's all it is. We are all programmed to do, say, observe, hear, smell, taste, touch and whatever other senses God made for as illusions for us to experience life with.
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 6:47:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:23:27 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

While I appreciate your concern, I would also like to point to where I explicitly addressed this:

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Rightnow, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.
This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

Was it that you didn't see that part, or was there some other concern?


Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

Well, I would make a few points.

1, that's a Juggle change--it would have to be implemented in the site.
This is certainly a change I would like to see happen.

2, I would argue that humanism is not a religious position--it is a philosophical one. Just as you can be a Utilitarian AND an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim, you can be a humanist AND an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim. They address different questions. atheism is included because it is a religious position. Humanism, by contrast, is not one in its own right.

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

This idea of how one can be a humanist and an atheist or a Christian or a Muslim. That doesn't really support the idea for the exclusion of Humanism as profile selection as one can be a Christian atheist as well as a Christian Muslim so they are not mutually exclusive.

Spiritual humanism can also be described as religious. Humanism is broad as is Christianity as is Buddhism as is Atheism and they are not mutually exclusive and can be mixed. There is no reason I can see not to include humanism as a selection.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
http://www.religionnews.com......
http://www.theguardian.com......
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org......
http://seattletimes.com...


3, that's a bit off topic from this particular post, and I'd prefer this thread not get overly derailed. That said, I'd be more than happy to participate in a discussion on this in another thread.

hmm...Maybe a debate at some point. Is humanism a religion? If not by myself and you then someone who could articulate the point rather well and be thorough in the conversation and in the points raised. This issue needs testing in a debate.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/21/2014 6:51:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!

Snap has already clearly stated he wants me thrown off the site. He always has harassed me. No bias? sure. I do think Airmax has been fair to me.
The Bible says sinners who are not saved from Hell will burn there forever. Is this forbidden as a "flame war"?
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/21/2014 7:06:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just to put this to rest humanism is basically atheist ethics. It's more like a sect of atheism, the main sect. Though people aren't conciously aware they adopt that ethical philosophy.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 7:12:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.

Agreed on all except Scientology.

... So what?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 7:18:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:12:25 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.

Agreed on all except Scientology.

I was subtly making the point that if all these options are classed in the religious section of DDO so then should Humanism and nihilism. I suppose the comment was made in jest at blatant hypocrisy. This is a relatively small change, I am surprised there is any resistance at all. I know programming, the practicality of it isn't hard to do.

... So what?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 7:24:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:18:59 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:12:25 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.

Agreed on all except Scientology.

I was subtly making the point that if all these options are classed in the religious section of DDO so then should Humanism and nihilism. I suppose the comment was made in jest at blatant hypocrisy. This is a relatively small change, I am surprised there is any resistance at all. I know programming, the practicality of it isn't hard to do.

I could care less if there was a humanist DDO religious identity, as I could care less if there is an atheist, agnostic, Christian etc. I am only pointing out that it is only at best a pragmatic categorisation, and not a logically sound one. My religion is technically 'None', as is yours. Not an atheist, not a humanist, etc. Our religious identity is 'None'.

If we were to do this properly then it would perhaps be proper to have a separate section for 'Life Philosophy' which would include the already mentioned, as well as religious philosophies.

In short, humanism is clearly not a religion, although it should be treated in a similar manner as it overlaps many of the things religion usually dictates.

... So what?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
thehumanistpreacher
Posts: 252
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10/21/2014 7:32:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:24:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:18:59 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:12:25 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.

Agreed on all except Scientology.

I was subtly making the point that if all these options are classed in the religious section of DDO so then should Humanism and nihilism. I suppose the comment was made in jest at blatant hypocrisy. This is a relatively small change, I am surprised there is any resistance at all. I know programming, the practicality of it isn't hard to do.

I could care less if there was a humanist DDO religious identity, as I could care less if there is an atheist, agnostic, Christian etc. I am only pointing out that it is only at best a pragmatic categorisation, and not a logically sound one. My religion is technically 'None', as is yours. Not an atheist, not a humanist, etc. Our religious identity is 'None'.

If we were to do this properly then it would perhaps be proper to have a separate section for 'Life Philosophy' which would include the already mentioned, as well as religious philosophies.

In short, humanism is clearly not a religion, although it should be treated in a similar manner as it overlaps many of the things religion usually dictates.

Hmm...maybe I should rephrase the question to 'can humanism be a religion?' rather than the subjective, 'Is Humanism a Religion?' For example spiritual humanism could be classed as a religion but atheist Christianity could not. So what is religious or not?

I am going to have to debate this issue in greater and thorough detail at some point to use that debate as a template to push the change for putting humanism in the religious section.

... So what?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/21/2014 7:37:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:32:50 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:24:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:18:59 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:12:25 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:51:48 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:32:30 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:29:01 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:19:39 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:14:40 PM, thehumanistpreacher wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:02:02 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Howdy folks!

It took a bit longer to iron out details than I had originally thought, but so it goes.

After my original post on the subject, I did notice that there was somewhat of a lull in things. That said, the lull seems to have been temporary, and the Ambassador program would be valuable even if it wasn't.

The first wave of religion forum ambassadors is officially up and running. They are:

bladerunner060 -- atheist
bsh1 -- deist
PopCulturePooka -- Christian
PotBelliedGeek -- Muslim
Mirza -- Muslim
SNP1 -- atheist

I would have liked to have seen more representation then just 6 individuals from 4 different religious groups.

Also I am still pushing for the idea of a humanist religious selection on the profile page. What are your thought on that?

I struggle to see how humanism is a religion. If humanism becomes a religion (yeah I know, atheism is aparently one according to the OP) then I want nihilism to become one too, and I will become it's representative :-)

Opinion doesn't quite matter. Humanism is already legally recognised as a religion.
Religion is recognised under an official capacity. In the US army Humanism is already recognised as a 'religious' preference. In Scotland you can have humanist marriages and I have even heard about humanist churches.

http://www.religionnews.com...
http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.spiritualhumanism.org...

Telling me that Humanism is recognised as a religion by some bodies does nothing to objectively justify how it's a religion. Hence why I threw up nihilism, which is just as justified as a religion as humanism (I.e. Not at all), since they are both philosophies, whereas religion as far as I understand necessarily involves the existence of a supernatural entity (be it deistic or not).

By that description both Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism and Scientology are not religions.

Agreed on all except Scientology.

I was subtly making the point that if all these options are classed in the religious section of DDO so then should Humanism and nihilism. I suppose the comment was made in jest at blatant hypocrisy. This is a relatively small change, I am surprised there is any resistance at all. I know programming, the practicality of it isn't hard to do.

I could care less if there was a humanist DDO religious identity, as I could care less if there is an atheist, agnostic, Christian etc. I am only pointing out that it is only at best a pragmatic categorisation, and not a logically sound one. My religion is technically 'None', as is yours. Not an atheist, not a humanist, etc. Our religious identity is 'None'.

If we were to do this properly then it would perhaps be proper to have a separate section for 'Life Philosophy' which would include the already mentioned, as well as religious philosophies.

In short, humanism is clearly not a religion, although it should be treated in a similar manner as it overlaps many of the things religion usually dictates.

Hmm...maybe I should rephrase the question to 'can humanism be a religion?' rather than the subjective, 'Is Humanism a Religion?' For example spiritual humanism could be classed as a religion but atheist Christianity could not. So what is religious or not?

I already explicitly defined that is required for something to be religious, which is to involke some sort of supernatural entity. If the definition should be broadened to 'any life philosophy' then to ahead by all means, but I don't see what it accomplishes except changing the wording on the Q&A forms you write.

I would sooner see the question changed to 'Life Ohilosohy' rather than the definition of religion changed to include naturalistic life philosophies, since the former makes 'religion' a more useful label.

I am going to have to debate this issue in greater and thorough detail at some point to use that debate as a template to push the change for putting humanism in the religious section.

Sure. Why not?

... So what?


You'll note I'm identifying religions, too--I want all cards on the table. I don't want any accusations of hidden "bias", I don't want any accusations of secret intentions. This is a cosmopolitan group whose only goal is trying to tone down the level of behavior in the Religion forum.

Airmax is, of course, also involved in this program.

I want to ensure a balance of faiths. Right now, we are definitely short one Christian in terms of balance, but I'm also intending to have more of the uncommon faiths if possible.

This list will be in flux--with members joining or leaving it--but I will make new posts when there's updates, or when the roster of the group changes.

If you are interested in being an Ambassador, feel free to message me. If you already did and I didn't respond (and there are several of you), that's because I haven't gotten a chance to go through your post history yet, which I have to do before I can decide. If you're still interested, feel free to bump that PM and we can discuss it more--the reminder won't hurt. Again, though, I do think it's important to maintain balance in the group.

As I outlined in my original Religion Forum post (http://www.debate.org...), the Religion Forum Ambassadors will be stepping in on occasion in forum threads. They are not mods. They do not have special rights, but they are a group that has been kind enough to volunteer to help get folks to calm down a bit when they're crossing the line in terms of behavior. They are still, obviously, allowed to just generally participate in their own right, too, but they have a higher standard of conduct to meet, and will also be commenting on behavior when they think things are getting out of hand.

The whole program can probably be summed thusly: Contentious debate is good. Flamewars are not. Let's try to nip the flamewars in the bud before mods have to take action.

Feel free to ask any questions, make any comments, voice any concerns, whathaveyou.

Thanks for reading, folks!
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/21/2014 7:52:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

Do you want the Bible banned? Should the religious forum forbid people from saying what the Bible says agaisnt child porn, againt murderous threats, against foul-mouth profanity, and against all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman?

People who love their own peronal favorite sin generally hate anybody who states what the Bible says about it. Those people, when they come to discuss anything with me, generally only want to discuss their animosity toward me for saying what the Bible says against sin. Those kind of people rarely are able to say antyhing without cursing and bullying. I do not back down from bullies, and if a person can do nothing but insult and attack me, that person should not expect a hug from me (even though I do feel sorry for that person because I know their offense is actually toward God, and I forgive those people who attack me.

The faith of God is reasonable, and I am reasonable. If you don't like me for saying what the Bible says, you should ignore me or DDO should ban the Bible completely.
People accuse me of all kinds of things, and call me all kinds of names, and some have even threatened to hack my ISP and perform homosexual rape on me. This is a criminal offense, to make threats like that. I will always be againt homosexuality, and I will always agree with what the Bible says about it.

I'm skeptical about this whole "ambassador" program. The amount of hatred and personal insults I get (many from one of the newly chosen "ambassadors" who is young enough to be my grandson), and the real criminal threats I have documented on record but refrained from reporting to the police so far, should have been counted as several times the minimimum requirement for deactivating a person's account.

This site should be a place where children would not be exposed to sexually explicit speech and crude vulgarities. A lot of children come to this stie. I understand that kids today are much more informed than they were when I was growing up, but if my children were young, they sure would not be allowed to come here to be subjected to the threats, dirty language, and dirty discussions of bullies and perverts.

I will not name the persons who have made real threats unless I feel I have to report it to the police. It would not be the first time I reported that kind of threat and the bully was persuaded by the police to apologize for threatening me. I really don't need the police to protect me, but I would rather have them humble a bully than for me to do it myself.

Some people on this site are so dirty mouthed and perverted, and hateful of anybody who does not appreciate their sick behaviour, it amazes me that anybody can think there is a real standard on conduct on this site. I have done my best to constrain myself as requested by Airmax, and so far he has dealt with me fairly.

If you can't talk with me man to man without cursing and talking dirty, why not simply mind your own business?
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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10/21/2014 7:53:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:47:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

None of us make any mistakes because we aren't the creator of our bodies or what we think. Even this OP about making new forum Ambassadors was planned by our Creator and the information He wanted me to share with the ones who formed this new force of protection amongst the forum members was designed by Him.

We don't create life at all. We are experiencing the life that God planned for all of us but from each created being's perspective. The perspectives from each of these few forum members who put together this group of Ambassadors have no idea that God gave one of them the idea and gave the others in the group the thoughts to agree with him.

God planned for me to be in here while this was being put together to use as an analogy of how God's plan called the beast operates.

The "mark of the beast" that you read about in the book of Revelation is a symbolic phrase that shows God putting an idea ( mark of the beast on the forehead ) in the mind of one of His people ( one who doesn't know God and believes he created that idea in his brain ) and has him form ( mark of the beast on his hand ) the new idea into a visible thing that other people can observe such as new words for a language, architectural plan, building technique, new product, or any idea that many people will exalt and believe was their own idea. This means they worship the idea, product, language, or architectural wonder that came from the beast instead of worshiping the invisible Creator who gave His people their thoughts in the first place.

The beast ( God's plan ) was necessary to teach His people to build things with their human hands so that He can use them to help us understand future events and how He created us. By having men build high walls for their buildings, God could teach us saints how He planned to have all these walls fall down at the end of this age such as you read about in this particular prophecy;

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

We know that fire ( heat ) will destroy any visible object in this world to use as analogies to teach us that the visible objects ( including our bodies ) are only illusions that weren't real at all.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

These are just a few examples of why God uses visible objects to teach us His invisible creation that we know as information today. One wavelength of energy is one bit of information, just like a 0 and a 1 used in computer binary code. Think of all the different wavelengths of energy that exist ( infinite ) that can be processed into illusions so perfectly that we thought they were real. We look in a mirror and actually believe we exist because the illusion we are observing was made so perfectly that it appears real.

God has used His quantum physicists to show us that the particles they believe were real are only illusions made from invisible light waves. There's no such thing as hard physical matter. These quantum physicists are beginning to realize this, but only a few of them. They can't get the rest of them to believe what they believe, just like religious people can't get everyone to believe their observations, either.

We are nothing but thoughts in the mind of God and that's all we'll ever be my friend. So enjoy the illusions that He has planned for us in His one plan called Eternal Life. We humans would call this a great program because that's all it is. We are all programmed to do, say, observe, hear, smell, taste, touch and whatever other senses God made for as illusions for us to experience life with.

This is not a forum meant for preaching of this kind. I insist that you move this to another forum post.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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10/21/2014 8:01:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 6:25:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:45:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

Yes, bornofgod would not be considered a troll, for being a troll involves at least some degree of mental stability. Folks like bulproof are actually intelligent enough and mentally stable enough to be thus considered, possibly. Bornofgod is just plain crazy.

I should have said something when it was first brought up, instead of merely eliding the references to individual members in my reply. Let's not start this, please.

I didn't. I commented on it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/21/2014 8:10:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:53:05 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 10/21/2014 6:47:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 5:42:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/21/2014 4:41:52 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:09:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
There are certain people here to preach and troll. The ambassador program isn't the way to go. We just need to ban trolls like bornofgod, lifemeansgodisgood and bulprof. You need to ban people who refuse to engage in dialogue and just preach as well. I'll keep those names private for now because at least some of them seem like they can be reformed a little. I could probably list 5 people right now where if they was just outright banned the religious forum could be a place for intelligent dialogue again.

You include me as a troll without realizing I have brought more new information in this forum than all your forum member put together who have a real need to plagiarize other people's information from the internet and the Bible to pretend they know something.

I would suggest looking in a mirror and ask yourself, "What new information have I brought to this forum that wasn't plagiarized from the Bible or internet"?

Sorry bornofgod. I think I made a mistake including you on that list.

None of us make any mistakes because we aren't the creator of our bodies or what we think. Even this OP about making new forum Ambassadors was planned by our Creator and the information He wanted me to share with the ones who formed this new force of protection amongst the forum members was designed by Him.

We don't create life at all. We are experiencing the life that God planned for all of us but from each created being's perspective. The perspectives from each of these few forum members who put together this group of Ambassadors have no idea that God gave one of them the idea and gave the others in the group the thoughts to agree with him.

God planned for me to be in here while this was being put together to use as an analogy of how God's plan called the beast operates.

The "mark of the beast" that you read about in the book of Revelation is a symbolic phrase that shows God putting an idea ( mark of the beast on the forehead ) in the mind of one of His people ( one who doesn't know God and believes he created that idea in his brain ) and has him form ( mark of the beast on his hand ) the new idea into a visible thing that other people can observe such as new words for a language, architectural plan, building technique, new product, or any idea that many people will exalt and believe was their own idea. This means they worship the idea, product, language, or architectural wonder that came from the beast instead of worshiping the invisible Creator who gave His people their thoughts in the first place.

The beast ( God's plan ) was necessary to teach His people to build things with their human hands so that He can use them to help us understand future events and how He created us. By having men build high walls for their buildings, God could teach us saints how He planned to have all these walls fall down at the end of this age such as you read about in this particular prophecy;

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

We know that fire ( heat ) will destroy any visible object in this world to use as analogies to teach us that the visible objects ( including our bodies ) are only illusions that weren't real at all.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

These are just a few examples of why God uses visible objects to teach us His invisible creation that we know as information today. One wavelength of energy is one bit of information, just like a 0 and a 1 used in computer binary code. Think of all the different wavelengths of energy that exist ( infinite ) that can be processed into illusions so perfectly that we thought they were real. We look in a mirror and actually believe we exist because the illusion we are observing was made so perfectly that it appears real.

God has used His quantum physicists to show us that the particles they believe were real are only illusions made from invisible light waves. There's no such thing as hard physical matter. These quantum physicists are beginning to realize this, but only a few of them. They can't get the rest of them to believe what they believe, just like religious people can't get everyone to believe their observations, either.

We are nothing but thoughts in the mind of God and that's all we'll ever be my friend. So enjoy the illusions that He has planned for us in His one plan called Eternal Life. We humans would call this a great program because that's all it is. We are all programmed to do, say, observe, hear, smell, taste, touch and whatever other senses God made for as illusions for us to experience life with.

This is not a forum meant for preaching of this kind. I insist that you move this to another forum post.

I use any forum to teach My people who they are in Me. Your rules are for you and the other forum members who adhere to the rules you use to condemn them with if they disobey you.