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ChristianPunk
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10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?
1harderthanyouthink
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10/21/2014 10:09:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/21/2014 11:38:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I prefer to believe in reproduction. The other two options are too fanciful and take too much blind faith to believe.
At least reproduction is realistic and can be observed by anyone in their lifetime.
bsh1
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10/21/2014 11:44:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:57:17 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Me.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


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jodybirdy
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10/23/2014 3:13:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I accept evolution. It's the most plausible explanation so far.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/23/2014 3:17:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:38:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I prefer to believe in reproduction. The other two options are too fanciful and take too much blind faith to believe.
At least reproduction is realistic and can be observed by anyone in their lifetime.

Reproduction is a necessary component of evolution. So you're a theist now?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
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10/23/2014 7:18:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?
Does this question refer to Christian/theists on this board only? Or are you talking more in general?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.

The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/23/2014 8:19:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:18:18 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?
Does this question refer to Christian/theists on this board only? Or are you talking more in general?

Well my answer applies to all who wish to c\all themselves Christian wherever they may be. I cannot however speak for what the OP had in mind.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/23/2014 9:43:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:18:18 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?
Does this question refer to Christian/theists on this board only? Or are you talking more in general?

It can apply to anybody who comes on the forum and reads this.
Karmanator
Posts: 142
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10/23/2014 10:11:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes I am a theist and accept evolution. How energy and life come about and how a creation changes over time are two very distinct questions.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/23/2014 4:56:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 3:17:50 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:38:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I prefer to believe in reproduction. The other two options are too fanciful and take too much blind faith to believe.
At least reproduction is realistic and can be observed by anyone in their lifetime.

Reproduction is a necessary component of evolution. So you're a theist now?

I am a realist. I believe in life. To me, life is God. Reality is God. Reality arises from reality. Fantasy also arises from reality in the sense that real people create their own fictions and the universe can create illusions which deceive and confuse people. Life arises from life.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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10/23/2014 5:01:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.

May you define evolution in your own terms.

What is adaption?

I just want to clarify before hand.

The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/23/2014 5:36:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 4:56:14 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/23/2014 3:17:50 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:38:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I prefer to believe in reproduction. The other two options are too fanciful and take too much blind faith to believe.
At least reproduction is realistic and can be observed by anyone in their lifetime.

Reproduction is a necessary component of evolution. So you're a theist now?

I am a realist. I believe in life. To me, life is God. Reality is God. Reality arises from reality. Fantasy also arises from reality in the sense that real people create their own fictions and the universe can create illusions which deceive and confuse people. Life arises from life.

I guess we can call all of the Woodstock bands and tell them their era isn't dead.

I guess if it makes you happy to just believe whatever makes you happy, that's your business. But - speaking for myself - I hope to alignby beliefs with reality.

By the way; the idea that "life is God", or that "reality is God", is strictly contrary to realism.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/23/2014 6:14:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 5:36:49 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/23/2014 4:56:14 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/23/2014 3:17:50 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:38:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I prefer to believe in reproduction. The other two options are too fanciful and take too much blind faith to believe.
At least reproduction is realistic and can be observed by anyone in their lifetime.

Reproduction is a necessary component of evolution. So you're a theist now?

I am a realist. I believe in life. To me, life is God. Reality is God. Reality arises from reality. Fantasy also arises from reality in the sense that real people create their own fictions and the universe can create illusions which deceive and confuse people. Life arises from life.

I guess we can call all of the Woodstock bands and tell them their era isn't dead.

I guess if it makes you happy to just believe whatever makes you happy, that's your business. But - speaking for myself - I hope to alignby beliefs with reality.

By the way; the idea that "life is God", or that "reality is God", is strictly contrary to realism.

Only if you happen to be stuck in the perception of God as a mythical character and cannot see it in any other way. You sir, appear to be stuck in that rut.

If you can manage to comprehend the mythical character Jesus as being a personification of Life and Truth itself, you might be able to comprehend the concept of God as reality. Life is a reality and Truth is considered to be evidence of that reality.

Life reproduces life. <<< That statement is the Truth because the evidence is in the reality of life itself.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,067
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10/23/2014 6:24:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Most Christians have.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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10/23/2014 6:27:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.


Are you going to offer your own definition for these terms?

The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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10/23/2014 6:34:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

Evolution is a belief that is completely contradictory to the Bible. Some christians do believe God used evolution. I'm not sure they are christians. They say they are, but they don't believe the Bible I'm sure some of them are true christians, but they are wrong. The Bible does not support evolution in any way.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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10/23/2014 6:40:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

In principle I have no problem with it. How God chooses to enact his will is his choice. If it turns out to be evolution, so be it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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10/23/2014 6:42:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 6:34:57 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

Evolution is a belief that is completely contradictory to the Bible. Some christians do believe God used evolution. I'm not sure they are christians. They say they are, but they don't believe the Bible I'm sure some of them are true christians, but they are wrong. The Bible does not support evolution in any way.

Which makes the bible wrong, but you don't care because you don't even have a reason for believing the bible to be the word of god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/23/2014 6:43:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 5:01:46 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.

May you define evolution in your own terms.

What is adaption?

I just want to clarify before hand.

Adaptation is the facility that God built into the various kinds to allow them to survive changing or changed environments by adapting to different foods without changing from one type to another, for example the Galapagos Finches, which though they adapted in many ways remained not only birds, but Finches.

Evolution is, according to it's teaching, the means that were used for life to change from single celled creatures through the various kinds on the way to becoming man.


The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/23/2014 6:47:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

Not christian, but theist. Yes.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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10/23/2014 6:48:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 6:43:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 5:01:46 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.

May you define evolution in your own terms.

What is adaption?

I just want to clarify before hand.

Adaptation is the facility that God built into the various kinds to allow them to survive changing or changed environments by adapting to different foods without changing from one type to another, for example the Galapagos Finches, which though they adapted in many ways remained not only birds, but Finches.


Evolution is, according to it's teaching, the means that were used for life to change from single celled creatures through the various kinds on the way to becoming man.


The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.

Evolution never mentions kinds. That is a religious word without definition, so it is useless to science.
Try again.
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PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/23/2014 6:49:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 8:19:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:18:18 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?
Does this question refer to Christian/theists on this board only? Or are you talking more in general?

Well my answer applies to all who wish to c\all themselves Christian wherever they may be. I cannot however speak for what the OP had in mind.

I am curious as to why you believe that you have the right/authority to speak on behalf of all people who identify as christian?
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SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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10/23/2014 6:52:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 6:43:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 5:01:46 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 10/23/2014 8:17:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:37:19 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:14:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

No because the two are mutually exclusive.

Any who claim to be Christian but accept evolution as the origin of life are betraying their faith.

The Bible teaches Creation, though few understand what it actually says.

Christ taught the Bible and therefore also taught Creation.

Any who depart from his teachings have no right to call themselves Christian.

The bible does discuss creation. But how was it created? To dumb it to a simple magic is to degrade God as a fairy tale. I see God as the creator of all things. You know the computer your using or the building your in? Did you know that if you believe in creation, then you should believe the people who designed it weren't really the designers. God created them by causing humans to exist. The Hawaiian islands were formed by lava. The Hawaiin islands are still being created because of this. So if you admit God is the creator, then you must admit there are tons of ways God can create his creations.

OK, first off, no the Hawaiian Islands are not still being created, the lava from volcano's is adding to them but using existing material expelled from inside the earth's crust.

In a similar way, Everest is still growing due to tectonic plate movement (about 30cm a year apparently).

God ceased any creative activity when he entered his day of rest after Adam sinned, which day is apparently still in place and will not end until his son hands the Kingdom back to him as described in the last three chapters of revelation.

Just because we do not know the exact mechanism of creation does not make it magic. There is no magic with God even though some things may seem like it to us.

Logic tells me at least that since there was nothing else in existence at the time God must have used some of his own being to create the first particles, and then carried on from there developing things slowly, all covered by one simple verse,Genesis 1:1, where it says that the heavens and the earth were created. So despite how some people prefer to interpret the rest of Genesis 1, the sun moon and stars were actually created before verse two starts describing the preparation of the earth for life, and that si where the first "day" starts.

Everything from verse 2 on, if treated with reason and logic, describes exactly how science believes the earth was formed after it's initial creation. including the order of creation of plants animals etc.

The account even indicates that the land mass was originally in one piece, and it's division is described in very few words in Genesis 10.

As for creating animals, the account tells us that God created them all "according to their kinds" which to the logical and reasonable mind would indicate that God simply created the basic types, and maybe a few examples of each, and built into them the ability to adapt, as we see in evidence in the fossil record.

That also makes the account of the animals n the Ark more feasible, especially so if, as any sensible God would, he only took along the young of those basic kinds.

The evidence of adaptation is all around us and people all too often confuse it with evolution.

May you define evolution in your own terms.

What is adaption?

I just want to clarify before hand.

Adaptation is the facility that God built into the various kinds to allow them to survive changing or changed environments by adapting to different foods without changing from one type to another, for example the Galapagos Finches, which though they adapted in many ways remained not only birds, but Finches.

Well, speciation is evolution. Not just a mere adaptation.

http://www.talkorigins.org...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu...


Evolution is, according to it's teaching, the means that were used for life to change from single celled creatures through the various kinds on the way to becoming man.

Why do you say " according to its teaching"? Are you suggesting that evolution is a religion? Well, if your answer to that question is yes, you are wrong. It is nothing like a religion.


The fact that God must have made everything from his own substance, and he is described as energy or power is rather borne out by the dramatic events following the splitting of the atom, which led to the atom bomb. The splitting of the atom simply released all the energy which was in that matter, and which is was made from.

Scripture must always be approached with reason and logic, not with dogma as so many do approach it.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Envisage
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10/23/2014 7:35:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I am not a Christian anymore but I accepted evolution pretty quickly during school, so I was a 'theistic evolutionist' for ~15 years. I took Genesis as allegorical/parable/ish, and didn't believe a literal story including Noah's ark etc.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/23/2014 8:12:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:35:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:54:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
Is there any Christian (or theist) that has accepted evolution as a scientific fact as opposed to creationism?

I am not a Christian anymore but I accepted evolution pretty quickly during school, so I was a 'theistic evolutionist' for ~15 years. I took Genesis as allegorical/parable/ish, and didn't believe a literal story including Noah's ark etc.

Wow, first I heard an ex Christian take genesis as allegorical as a Christian.