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Christianity Gone Narcistic

ChristianPunk
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10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...
Philosophybro
Posts: 9
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10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/22/2014 3:19:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

For all of man there is no excuse, according to scripture, for the Jew first then the Gentile. This doesn"t mean I agree with anything this person Sye Ten Bruggencate preaches or teaches.

It seems maybe, you haven"t read Romans chapter 1 and 2 which makes statements like this:

Rom:1:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom:2:1: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Rom:2:8: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9: Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/22/2014 7:16:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
(The video is nearly 2-hours in length.)

The entire idea of presuppositional Christianity is simply to assert without justification, and claim absolute knowledge of God, to avoid the responsible position of providing any rational support for one's claims.

It would be little different than claiming that Peter Pan has provided me with absolute revelation of his existence, and I can therefore, not be wrong that Peter Pan exists.

I just watched a debate between Sye Ten Bruggencate and Matt Dillahunty, in which Sye did an admirable job of demonstrating how pathetic one with no justification for their beliefs, is shown to be against an intelligent individual, who has engaged in the research, understands logic and reason, and is actually interested in finding the truth, rather than simply proclaiming that they have the truth. Dillahunty left him scrambling for responses on multiple instances and Sye, did nothing but attempt to fabricate a debate where he was allowed to form his own dialog, as well as selecting the dialog of his opponent, by playing clips from Dillahunty acting as host for "The Atheist Experience".

Sye is clearly a religious idiot, and Dillahunty provided him with the opportunity to demonstrate that to be true.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/22/2014 7:33:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 7:16:56 PM, Beastt wrote:

(The video is nearly 2-hours in length.)

The entire idea of presuppositional Christianity is simply to assert without justification, and claim absolute knowledge of God, to avoid the responsible position of providing any rational support for one's claims.

It would be little different than claiming that Peter Pan has provided me with absolute revelation of his existence, and I can therefore, not be wrong that Peter Pan exists.

I just watched a debate between Sye Ten Bruggencate and Matt Dillahunty, in which Sye did an admirable job of demonstrating how pathetic one with no justification for their beliefs, is shown to be against an intelligent individual, who has engaged in the research, understands logic and reason, and is actually interested in finding the truth, rather than simply proclaiming that they have the truth. Dillahunty left him scrambling for responses on multiple instances and Sye, did nothing but attempt to fabricate a debate where he was allowed to form his own dialog, as well as selecting the dialog of his opponent, by playing clips from Dillahunty acting as host for "The Atheist Experience".

Sye is clearly a religious idiot, and Dillahunty provided him with the opportunity to demonstrate that to be true.

It was a retarded debate, but proved just how pathetic he was. I respect Matt and think that he's probably my favorite atheist out there. There is an abridged version that pretty much sums it up. I thought Ken Ham vs Bill Nye was bad but wow.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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10/22/2014 9:08:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Tell me what do atheists worship? ROFLMAO!!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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10/22/2014 10:39:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.

Did god tell you that?
When and how?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/22/2014 11:18:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

All thoughts come from God so He could care less what you think since He's the one who gives you thoughts to think with.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;

Exodus 4:
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

Psalm 33
8: Let all the earth fear the LORD, let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him!
9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood forth.
10: The LORD brings the counsel of the nations to nought; he frustrates the plans of the peoples.
11: The counsel of the LORD stands for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.


Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Job 33
1: "But now, hear my speech, O Job, and listen to all my words.
2: Behold, I open my mouth; the tongue in my mouth speaks.
3: My words declare the uprightness of my heart, and what my lips know they speak sincerely.
4: The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5: Answer me, if you can; set your words in order before me; take your stand.
6: Behold, I am toward God as you are; I too was formed from a piece of clay.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The knowledge of God is where we exist, known as the spirit of God ( the breath of Life )
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/23/2014 3:12:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.

Did God provide you with special credentials, made by his own hand, when he appointed you as his spokesperson? Or did you appoint yourself and never stop to check the validity of your sources?

And why should anyone follow a God who tells you to watch what you say but says it's okay to kill your own children? If a presidential candidate ran on that platform, would you vote for him?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/23/2014 4:34:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 3:12:39 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.

Did God provide you with special credentials, made by his own hand, when he appointed you as his spokesperson? Or did you appoint yourself and never stop to check the validity of your sources?

And why should anyone follow a God who tells you to watch what you say but says it's okay to kill your own children? If a presidential candidate ran on that platform, would you vote for him?

Sir, why do you show such a high level of hostility towards Christianity? The point of the story of Abraham and Isaac was not that God wanted Isaac dead, but rather that He wanted to see if Abraham put Isaac above God. Abraham passed the test.
As for the question about the politician, I think I would if I owed that politician my existence and my soul.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/23/2014 4:44:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 4:34:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/23/2014 3:12:39 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.

Did God provide you with special credentials, made by his own hand, when he appointed you as his spokesperson? Or did you appoint yourself and never stop to check the validity of your sources?

And why should anyone follow a God who tells you to watch what you say but says it's okay to kill your own children? If a presidential candidate ran on that platform, would you vote for him?

Sir, why do you show such a high level of hostility towards Christianity? The point of the story of Abraham and Isaac was not that God wanted Isaac dead, but rather that He wanted to see if Abraham put Isaac above God. Abraham passed the test.
As for the question about the politician, I think I would if I owed that politician my existence and my soul.

Of course, if God had to test Abraham to know what he would do, then the Bible is wrong. The Bible claims that God knows everything about you, every choice you will ever make, and the number of hairs on your head, even before you are born.

As for the situation with the politician; your answer should be seen as an adequate answer to the question you put to me regarding my "hostility" (your word, not mine), toward Christianity. Christians have a history in this country of making horrible political decisions on the basis of their religious beliefs. And perhaps, if they were a bit more thoughtful about their religious beliefs, we could have avoided some of these truly horrific and obviously mindless decisions. I'm all for democracy within the framework of a republic, but having the right to vote comes with the responsibility to vote wisely. And one does not vote wisely by seeking consistency between a book about witches, zombies, giants, wizards, dragons, sea monsters & unicorns; and their favored political candidates.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/23/2014 6:00:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 4:44:09 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/23/2014 4:34:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/23/2014 3:12:39 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:33:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:21:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:08:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:00:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 8:54:13 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/22/2014 11:35:53 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:55:07 AM, Philosophybro wrote:
At 10/22/2014 10:04:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
It shouldn't surprise me at how the layman christian and the fundamentalists show ignorance and intolerance, but it did when I learned of a Christian called Sye Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian who uses something called Pressupitional Apologetics. He believes the only way to knowledge or reason is by accepting the christian God's existence as logical. I'll leave a link to his site that has a question thing he asks atheists that usually lead to his cheesy advertisement schemes. So he will go around saying that everybody knows God exists and refuses to say it because they are fools who like for idolatry. I find it weird when Sye goes around claiming to know what people thinks, because the Ive never read a verse of the bible that says people know God automatically. One of his disciples in this is Eric Hovind and you can see these two be partners. But what bothers me is that he holds this high view of himself to impress his own ego by saying he knows truth because he accepts God. If you look at some of his videos, you'll see he is like a smart aleck kid in a high school. Tell me what you think of this guy and his new apologetics. Do you think he's about to dumb down the future generation of christians even more?

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org...

Its not new apologetics he took Van Till's apologetics and fluffed it up. But presup apologetics looks to be somewhat biblical.

Romans 1:21

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:20-21 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

This is dealing with idolatry. Not atheists. This is with people who worshipped Gamon and these other gods at that time who knew God but thought his form was like these other gods.

Idolatry, atheism, it's all the same thing: worshipping something that is not worthy of the worship only God receives. Christians can do it too, and they often do.
Tell me: what is worship?

Expressing one's religion.

You worship that which you hold most dear. It doesn't have to be a deity, real or perceived. One can worship a romantic relationship, one can worship success, one can worship money, one can worship anything. Heck, you could even worship a car or a TV show. That is what worship is.
Sin is not its own element, some kind of opposite of light. Sin is anything that is outside of the will of God. Sin is focusing on and worshipping that which isn't God. That's what sin is: separation from God. Good deeds are not the cure. Worshipping God, and not just with your lips, is the cure. That and accepting His gift of salvation.
I am often guilty of idolatry, even though I don't literally bow down to statues.

What our lips say shouldn't matter. Our conscience and soul does. The Pharisees spoke to be doing God's will, but had wicked intentions. So even if somebody can't express their religion, if they can worship in their head, God will bless them, knowing they accept him.

Agreed, to an extent. God still wants us to honor Him with our lips and to keep what we say pure.

Did God provide you with special credentials, made by his own hand, when he appointed you as his spokesperson? Or did you appoint yourself and never stop to check the validity of your sources?

And why should anyone follow a God who tells you to watch what you say but says it's okay to kill your own children? If a presidential candidate ran on that platform, would you vote for him?

Sir, why do you show such a high level of hostility towards Christianity? The point of the story of Abraham and Isaac was not that God wanted Isaac dead, but rather that He wanted to see if Abraham put Isaac above God. Abraham passed the test.
As for the question about the politician, I think I would if I owed that politician my existence and my soul.

Of course, if God had to test Abraham to know what he would do, then the Bible is wrong. The Bible claims that God knows everything about you, every choice you will ever make, and the number of hairs on your head, even before you are born.

As for the situation with the politician; your answer should be seen as an adequate answer to the question you put to me regarding my "hostility" (your word, not mine), toward Christianity. Christians have a history in this country of making horrible political decisions on the basis of their religious beliefs. And perhaps, if they were a bit more thoughtful about their religious beliefs, we could have avoided some of these truly horrific and obviously mindless decisions. I'm all for democracy within the framework of a republic, but having the right to vote comes with the responsibility to vote wisely. And one does not vote wisely by seeking consistency between a book about witches, zombies, giants, wizards, dragons, sea monsters & unicorns; and their favored political candidates.

Which "horrific and mindless decisions" are you referring to? I'm curious as to what you have to say on this matter.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid