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This YT Christian makes me rage.

Sorrow
Posts: 8
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4/19/2010 7:05:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not so much the fact that he's Christian, but how much the blatant stereotypes found within this video were ironically formed due to ignorant Christians.

P.S. His voice is annoying too.

Good counter-arguments to the points listed, please?
Sorrow
Posts: 8
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4/19/2010 7:10:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
ONE WAIT, I GOT ONE!

We don't know what happened before the Big Bang, but we do know that it happened. The Big Bang is also incompatible with the theory of Creationism, unless you believe in two separate "religions."
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/19/2010 7:21:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At best, all the theist does is mention some similarities regarding questions of the origins of the universe between theists and atheists. However, all he really did was prove that there are still some questions science can't answer (even though he misrepresented some things and ignored others) -- He didn't prove that arguments for God make any more sense. So by reducing the atheist argument, all he did was reduce his own. Instead of looking for more logical or scientific explanations, however, he just used the cop-out answer of saying "God" must be the origin. Haha - right. That's logical. Good job, theist. You successfully proved... absolutely nothing.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/19/2010 8:27:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lololol i've seen that one.

basic argument: you don't know everything so you know nothing. NOW EXPLODE. its weak. but i love the grumpy arse of an atheist.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/20/2010 6:33:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 7:21:18 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At best, all the theist does is mention some similarities regarding questions of the origins of the universe between theists and atheists. However, all he really did was prove that there are still some questions science can't answer (even though he misrepresented some things and ignored others) -- He didn't prove that arguments for God make any more sense. So by reducing the atheist argument, all he did was reduce his own. Instead of looking for more logical or scientific explanations, however, he just used the cop-out answer of saying "God" must be the origin. Haha - right. That's logical. Good job, theist. You successfully proved... absolutely nothing.

why is a cop out to say god is the origin; and not a cop out to just say 'well obviously it happened' They are both involve giving up on being able to answering all of the questions, origin being a question that both give up on, and just resting your belief in one or the other on faith.
The only difference is the one you call a cop out involves accapting a spiritual reality that could change your life. For the better too.

The big bang on the other hand, that fits the discription of a cop out better because if your such a wuss that it freightens you too much to think a divine judge exist to give eternal consequenses to how true you are to moral character... Thats coping out.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/20/2010 6:43:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/19/2010 7:10:52 PM, Sorrow wrote:
ONE WAIT, I GOT ONE!

We don't know what happened before the Big Bang, but we do know that it happened. The Big Bang is also incompatible with the theory of Creationism, unless you believe in two separate "religions."

really well, I dont know how a God can exist, or in such a truine form, but I know that he is.

But the big bang theory is not incompatible with christianinity as a doctrine for creation. not all christians are young earth creationist. I not one of those christians who arnt, but there many who have no problem with it. God can create how ever he wants. If the Big bang explains the method of the miricle of creation...so be it. its not like theres a competeing explination of Gods method for his miracle. The primary reason for sticking with YEC is simply how much time your willing to accapt has past since creation based on scripture. It never outright say's how old the Earth is so many christians can believe Big Bang theory just fine and that it took millions of years, But it does ages of decendants when they were 'beggaten' all the way back to Adam begotting Seth witch allows for one to add up the years since adams creation, and that is why the other christian stick to YEC.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Sorrow
Posts: 8
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4/20/2010 5:11:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 6:43:26 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 4/19/2010 7:10:52 PM, Sorrow wrote:
ONE WAIT, I GOT ONE!

We don't know what happened before the Big Bang, but we do know that it happened. The Big Bang is also incompatible with the theory of Creationism, unless you believe in two separate "religions."

really well, I dont know how a God can exist, or in such a truine form, but I know that he is.

But the big bang theory is not incompatible with christianinity as a doctrine for creation. not all christians are young earth creationist. I not one of those christians who arnt, but there many who have no problem with it. God can create how ever he wants. If the Big bang explains the method of the miricle of creation...so be it. its not like theres a competeing explination of Gods method for his miracle. The primary reason for sticking with YEC is simply how much time your willing to accapt has past since creation based on scripture. It never outright say's how old the Earth is so many christians can believe Big Bang theory just fine and that it took millions of years, But it does ages of decendants when they were 'beggaten' all the way back to Adam begotting Seth witch allows for one to add up the years since adams creation, and that is why the other christian stick to YEC.

Well, I wasn't saying that the Big Bang was incompatible with Christianity, as Christians can say God simply provided the tools for the Big Bang. What I'm saying is that Creationism is incompatible.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/20/2010 5:55:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 6:33:51 AM, Marauder wrote:
why is a cop out to say god is the origin; and not a cop out to just say 'well obviously it happened' They are both involve giving up on being able to answering all of the questions, origin being a question that both give up on, and just resting your belief in one or the other on faith.

in both cases you are saying "well obviously it happened", the first senario simply goes further to say what that something was. we're here. something happened. the difference is when you label that something "god" based on no evidence but an ancient book, you give up looking and may quite possibly miss out on the *real* reason that something happened.

The only difference is the one you call a cop out involves accapting a spiritual reality that could change your life. For the better too.

The big bang on the other hand, that fits the discription of a cop out better

accepting something we know to be written by desert dwellers with no credentials a few thousand years ago? rather than accepted the results of meticulously explained data? i think not...

if your such a wuss that it freightens you too much to think a divine judge exist to give eternal consequenses to how true you are to moral character... Thats coping out.

yes because fear is the only reason people disbelieve in god. *rolls eyes*

its way too easy to turn that argument around. if you're so afraid of a meaningless existence without a divine judge to give your life purpose then believing in a diety with no evidence to avoid experiencing existential anxiety is a cop out.

the psychology of belief can be interesting but its really got no place in a debate about existence/nonexistence
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/20/2010 5:59:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 5:55:45 PM, belle wrote:

in both cases you are saying "well obviously it happened", the first senario simply goes further to say what that something was. we're here. something happened. the difference is when you label that something "god" based on no evidence but an ancient book, you give up looking and may quite possibly miss out on the *real* reason that something happened.

This.

accepting something we know to be written by desert dwellers with no credentials a few thousand years ago? rather than accepted the results of meticulously explained data? i think not...

This.

yes because fear is the only reason people disbelieve in god. *rolls eyes*

Haha, this.

its way too easy to turn that argument around. if you're so afraid of a meaningless existence without a divine judge to give your life purpose then believing in a diety with no evidence to avoid experiencing existential anxiety is a cop out.

the psychology of belief can be interesting but its really got no place in a debate about existence/nonexistence

Also, I don't need a deity to give my life purpose. I dictate my own life purpose. I define my life's meaning.
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Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 5:59:31 PM, theLwerd wrote:

Also, I don't need a deity to give my life purpose. I dictate my own life purpose. I define my life's meaning.

neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/21/2010 7:39:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/20/2010 5:55:45 PM, belle wrote:

accepting something we know to be written by desert dwellers with no credentials a few thousand years ago? rather than accepted the results of meticulously explained data? i think not...

you'd be suprised at how reliable passed on traditional teaching can be about the past. Like several historic locations in Jeruselum that we had not found archological proof for what they were at the time traditional teaching kept within the church already had them labed. and then later they do find evedince that comfirms them.

I dont have proof Isiah was sawed in two. But because of that passed down teaching being around since before their has been any other source to judge otherwise I feel confident in believing that is how he died.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/21/2010 10:53:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 7:39:01 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 4/20/2010 5:55:45 PM, belle wrote:

accepting something we know to be written by desert dwellers with no credentials a few thousand years ago? rather than accepted the results of meticulously explained data? i think not...

you'd be suprised at how reliable passed on traditional teaching can be about the past. Like several historic locations in Jeruselum that we had not found archological proof for what they were at the time traditional teaching kept within the church already had them labed. and then later they do find evedince that comfirms them.

ok. but don't you think theres a pretty clear difference between remembering the location(s) of historical events (which simply requires decent record keeping) and discovering the nature of the universe ?

also, don't you think its telling that you must appeal to confirming evidence in order to show they weren't making it up? when you have confirming evidence of divine creation you'll have a point :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/21/2010 1:52:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 4/20/2010 5:59:31 PM, theLwerd wrote:

Also, I don't need a deity to give my life purpose. I dictate my own life purpose. I define my life's meaning.

neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.
President of DDO
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/21/2010 4:53:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.

That's not evidence of anything except your own mental state.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/22/2010 6:32:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 4:53:01 PM, Puck wrote:
At 4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.

That's not evidence of anything except your own mental state.

That may explain why I mysterously didnt give it as evedince for anything other than the fact that belief in God is not a cop out attitude, witch a mental state of mind would be somewhat pertainent to wouldnt it?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/22/2010 6:45:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 4/21/2010 4:53:01 PM, Puck wrote:
At 4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.

That's not evidence of anything except your own mental state.

That may explain why I mysterously didnt give it as evedince for anything other than the fact that belief in God is not a cop out attitude, witch a mental state of mind would be somewhat pertainent to wouldnt it?

and if i assure you that i don't fear divine judgment but rather find the probability of a divine judger existing to be exceedingly small, do you believe me? does not believing in god stop being a cop out?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/22/2010 6:55:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 4/21/2010 4:53:01 PM, Puck wrote:
At 4/21/2010 7:33:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
neither do I, But my lord gives me a better purpose anyway than what I can give myself.

That's not evidence of anything except your own mental state.

That may explain why I mysterously didnt give it as evedince for anything other than the fact that belief in God is not a cop out attitude, witch a mental state of mind would be somewhat pertainent to wouldnt it?

All depends on how one evaluates the state of mind which allows, requests and values purpose handed to you. :)