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Please... help me understand.

ThinkFirst
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10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let's set the stage, here, for the glaring holes in the story that beg to be filled:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Why, precisely, did the deity look with disfavor upon the offering of Cain?

Gen 4:6,7:
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

Nowhere is there any reason ever given for why Cain was in disfavor. What did Cain do wrong? Cain was the firstborn, was he not? Why, when the firstborn is so venerated EVERYWHERE else, did the firstborn receive no such benefit, in the "second generation of humanity?" One can speculate (all that can ever be done, biblically), and say that the deity "knew" what Cain was about to do... Wouldn't showing the "little brother" favor rather prompt the behavior?

Next, you have the deity directly addressing Cain, asking a question to which he already knew the answer. It is reasonable the Cain would fear repercussion and lie, to no avail. However, here is where the story gets a little "weird," in reasonable terms:

After the deity pronounces its judgment, Cain makes a statement that has no basis in fact, to this point...

Gen. 4:14:
14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

Who, precisely, does Cain believe will kill him? To this point, there are all of three people on the earth... Does he fear future generations of his own family? Who is going to "find" him, in order to kill him? Now, once marked to avoid death at the hands of the two remaining humans on the planet (mom & dad), or future brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews... he leaves for Nod. OK...

IMMEDIATELY upon finishing this little chapter, we have Cain "making love" to his wife.................................. WHO??? From where did this woman come? The only POSSIBLE answer would have to be a sister. But there is zero record of her birth... Next, now that he's gotten this mystery woman pregnant, we pan in on our villain "building a city." For... his mystery woman wife and child (Enoch)?

Next, we have four more generations of Cain's line:

Gen. 4:18:
18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

So, now we have FIVE generations of Cain's offspring (firstborn), without the mention of a SINGLE female birth. Are women completely unworthy of being named? I understand that the bible's authors were complete misogynists, but were women NOTHING but baby factories? The very first mention of a female, other than the disobedient hag, Eve, comes by way of Cain's fifth generation...

Gen. 4:19:
19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.

This sets the stage for a new mystery... ANOTHER SLAYING!!!

Gen. 4:23,24
23 Lamech said to his wives,

"Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times."

No details of the altercation are given, but... Who is the "young man?" Now, we're going to back track, just a little... The deity threatens to visit SEVEN TIMES vengeance, on any who kill Cain. How does one die seven times? Now, how does Lamech merit eleven times the vengeance that his great-great-great grandfather did? How was this math derived? On what basis, and by what authority is this statement made? No further details... An ominous pronouncement is just left dangling, and then we flash back to Adam and Eve who, apparently cant still spit out children five generations later...

Now, we come to an amazing juncture...

A while back, there was a discussion involving the meaning of the phrase "call upon the name of the lord." An adamant proponent of the bible smugly issued the edict that this phrase can mean nothing other than "baptism." This chapter ends with that EXACT phrase, but the messiah is still THOUSANDS of years away. We leave this chapter, with never another mention of the attack on Lamech, or the reason or result of his "curse." Further, his attacker is never identified, nor the reason for the attack. If this is the "word of god," why even mention it?

All of this occurs within the fourth chapter of what bible believers claim to be the BEGINNING OF MAN'S HISTORY. With all of the aforementioned, I fail to see the following. These are simply a few of the questions that arise from this ONE chapter, without considering any of the "deeper" aspects of this waste of tree pulp:

Misogyny:
The first mention of a female, by name (identity), is solely and exclusively for the purpose of pointing out that both women mentioned were called in to listen to tale of adventure that is all of four lines long, and culminates with a curse, without any apparent basis, mentioned almost in passing, never to be referenced again...

Why are women considered so worthless, in the bible?

Credibility:
The OT goes to great lengths to describe, in detail, some of the most absurd requirements (without clarification), some of the most meaningless and trivial practices, and some of the most fantastical groundwork for spectacular stories, but leaves necessary details completely out of the more important aspects of crucial stories (Cain's disfavor, for example).

Can we really be expected to believe that the ancient Jews didn't just make all this up?

Faith:
That which IS "revealed" in Genesis appears to be the rough draft of an amateur story teller, before stopping to consider all of the questions that might be raised. Imagine telling a story like this to a child, and the child looking up at you and saying, "But, why? Why did god hate Cain?"

Is faith REALLY so important that we are to accept a written "history" that raises more questions than it answers, solely because someone CLAIMED that this was the "word of god?"

What is it about this manuscript that makes people believe that such utter stupidity could possibly have been divinely "inspired," while completely rejecting MOUNTAINS of physically demonstrable data regarding physical reality? What is it about humans that make so many reject reason in favor of complete and utter NONSENSE? I'm actually very curious to know this. How can fully educated, adult humans allow themselves to overlook all of the OBVIOUS fabrications of ancient LIARS, that I was able to identify before I hit junior high?

I really don't get it, people... Are all of you christians REALLY unable to see that this book is a completely fraudulent fabrication that has so completely stunted the advancement of humanity? Is the fear of reality really so frightening to you that you are willing to sacrifice the single most precious gift you have, as an human (reason), to the false security provided by pure fantasy?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
Let's set the stage, here, for the glaring holes in the story that beg to be filled:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Why, precisely, did the deity look with disfavor upon the offering of Cain?

Gen 4:6,7:
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

Nowhere is there any reason ever given for why Cain was in disfavor. What did Cain do wrong? Cain was the firstborn, was he not? Why, when the firstborn is so venerated EVERYWHERE else, did the firstborn receive no such benefit, in the "second generation of humanity?" One can speculate (all that can ever be done, biblically), and say that the deity "knew" what Cain was about to do... Wouldn't showing the "little brother" favor rather prompt the behavior?

Next, you have the deity directly addressing Cain, asking a question to which he already knew the answer. It is reasonable the Cain would fear repercussion and lie, to no avail. However, here is where the story gets a little "weird," in reasonable terms:

After the deity pronounces its judgment, Cain makes a statement that has no basis in fact, to this point...

Gen. 4:14:
14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

Who, precisely, does Cain believe will kill him? To this point, there are all of three people on the earth... Does he fear future generations of his own family? Who is going to "find" him, in order to kill him? Now, once marked to avoid death at the hands of the two remaining humans on the planet (mom & dad), or future brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews... he leaves for Nod. OK...

IMMEDIATELY upon finishing this little chapter, we have Cain "making love" to his wife.................................. WHO??? From where did this woman come? The only POSSIBLE answer would have to be a sister. But there is zero record of her birth... Next, now that he's gotten this mystery woman pregnant, we pan in on our villain "building a city." For... his mystery woman wife and child (Enoch)?

Next, we have four more generations of Cain's line:

Gen. 4:18:
18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

So, now we have FIVE generations of Cain's offspring (firstborn), without the mention of a SINGLE female birth. Are women completely unworthy of being named? I understand that the bible's authors were complete misogynists, but were women NOTHING but baby factories? The very first mention of a female, other than the disobedient hag, Eve, comes by way of Cain's fifth generation...

Gen. 4:19:
19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.

This sets the stage for a new mystery... ANOTHER SLAYING!!!

Gen. 4:23,24
23 Lamech said to his wives,

"Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times."

No details of the altercation are given, but... Who is the "young man?" Now, we're going to back track, just a little... The deity threatens to visit SEVEN TIMES vengeance, on any who kill Cain. How does one die seven times? Now, how does Lamech merit eleven times the vengeance that his great-great-great grandfather did? How was this math derived? On what basis, and by what authority is this statement made? No further details... An ominous pronouncement is just left dangling, and then we flash back to Adam and Eve who, apparently cant still spit out children five generations later...

Now, we come to an amazing juncture...

A while back, there was a discussion involving the meaning of the phrase "call upon the name of the lord." An adamant proponent of the bible smugly issued the edict that this phrase can mean nothing other than "baptism." This chapter ends with that EXACT phrase, but the messiah is still THOUSANDS of years away. We leave this chapter, with never another mention of the attack on Lamech, or the reason or result of his "curse." Further, his attacker is never identified, nor the reason for the attack. If this is the "word of god," why even mention it?

All of this occurs within the fourth chapter of what bible believers claim to be the BEGINNING OF MAN'S HISTORY. With all of the aforementioned, I fail to see the following. These are simply a few of the questions that arise from this ONE chapter, without considering any of the "deeper" aspects of this waste of tree pulp:

Misogyny:
The first mention of a female, by name (identity), is solely and exclusively for the purpose of pointing out that both women mentioned were called in to listen to tale of adventure that is all of four lines long, and culminates with a curse, without any apparent basis, mentioned almost in passing, never to be referenced again...

Why are women considered so worthless, in the bible?

Credibility:
The OT goes to great lengths to describe, in detail, some of the most absurd requirements (without clarification), some of the most meaningless and trivial practices, and some of the most fantastical groundwork for spectacular stories, but leaves necessary details completely out of the more important aspects of crucial stories (Cain's disfavor, for example).

Can we really be expected to believe that the ancient Jews didn't just make all this up?

Faith:
That which IS "revealed" in Genesis appears to be the rough draft of an amateur story teller, before stopping to consider all of the questions that might be raised. Imagine telling a story like this to a child, and the child looking up at you and saying, "But, why? Why did god hate Cain?"

Is faith REALLY so important that we are to accept a written "history" that raises more questions than it answers, solely because someone CLAIMED that this was the "word of god?"

What is it about this manuscript that makes people believe that such utter stupidity could possibly have been divinely "inspired," while completely rejecting MOUNTAINS of physically demonstrable data regarding physical reality? What is it about humans that make so many reject reason in favor of complete and utter NONSENSE? I'm actually very curious to know this. How can fully educated, adult humans allow themselves to overlook all of the OBVIOUS fabrications of ancient LIARS, that I was able to identify before I hit junior high?

I really don't get it, people... Are all of you christians REALLY unable to see that this book is a completely fraudulent fabrication that has so completely stunted the advancement of humanity? Is the fear of reality really so frightening to you that you are willing to sacrifice the single most precious gift you have, as an human (reason), to the false security provided by pure fantasy?

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/25/2014 4:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

It does no good trying to dissuade him. Just let him be.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/25/2014 4:12:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 4:09:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

It does no good trying to dissuade him. Just let him be.

I know fully that you are completely right. The diatribe is just so meaningless. He just like the annoying gnat that won't stop buzzing my eyes, while I'm mowing the lawn...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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10/25/2014 4:14:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 4:12:26 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 4:09:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

It does no good trying to dissuade him. Just let him be.

I know fully that you are completely right. The diatribe is just so meaningless. He just like the annoying gnat that won't stop buzzing my eyes, while I'm mowing the lawn...

He's probably got mental health issues. Don't make fun of him for it. It's cost him his home and his family. For real.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/25/2014 4:24:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 4:14:40 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/25/2014 4:12:26 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 4:09:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

It does no good trying to dissuade him. Just let him be.

I know fully that you are completely right. The diatribe is just so meaningless. He just like the annoying gnat that won't stop buzzing my eyes, while I'm mowing the lawn...

He's probably got mental health issues. Don't make fun of him for it. It's cost him his home and his family. For real.

It's pretty dismissive to immediately apply the "mental health" label to someone that actually writes better than half the forum posters. I've been homeless. My homelessness was due to drug use, and I blame nothing and no one else. While I can empathize, it's not an "automatic pass" any more than "faith" is, for ridicule. Although he may not be able to help some of his thoughts, coming here, day after day, is a choice. Of course, I don't find his delusion any more trite than any other religion. Meaningless, useless, and utterly without value. This is precisely the type of forum in which those types of views are expressed. His intellectual stumbling takes place in precisely the right type of forum for his drivel, so it is subject to the same treatment and ridicule as any other unfounded, delusional rant of supserstition.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/25/2014 4:45:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Are you really interested in this or are you full of the usual crap you like to dish out to those who take the time respond? By the way you should ref to what translation and or paraphraze you are quoting, because its quite dfferant then what the KJV which is the stradard in the english translations of the scriptures. For example:

your quote:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Gen 4:6,7:
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

KJV:

2: And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3: And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4: And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6: And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7: If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Note the obvious differences in verse 7 one says rule over it, and the other says rule over him. Two completely different meanings. If you are using a paraphrase then use a translation instead, paraphrases are not translations they more of a what the publisher/paraphraser thinks it ought to mean, document. Therefore not sufficient for debate or constructive discussions, when it comes to scripture. Honest, you are better off with a proven by time translation.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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10/25/2014 5:39:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was going to give detailed answers for all of your questions, but after reading through this long dissertation which pretty much conludes with "I will accept no answer which might imply that I am guilty of sin" I decided not to bother.

I will answer your first question about Cain, and that's all. It's a good start, but you probably will reject the answer anyways. If you reject this answer hands down, you probably won't believe Hell is real unless it is forced upon you and there is nothing I can do to show you God loves you and wants you to be saved from Hell.

The answer is not so hard. I don't know where you learned this lne of questioning which seems to show you have been schooled or done research in religious studies, but it's a shame that whoever taught you this kind of quetioning did not understand the Bible.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they did not moment that from that moment onward they were dead on their feet. The knew they were in trouble and hid themselves from God by covering themselves with leaves, but they did not realize sin had killed them already in that they were separated from God by what they had done. This was the trick the devil had played on Eve, to make her think she could still be alive in sin. God called to them while they were hiding from Him, and they came out and told God what they had done, first saying they saw they were naked. They had tried to cover themselves with leaves to hide their nakedness because they did not want God to see them. They knew they had sinned agaisnt God in disobeying the only law He had ever given them. They were afraid of what He was going to do to them. They did not understand what "die" meant, because they had never seen anything die. Death was not in the world untill they brought it in by sinning against God. God still had a plan for Adam and Eve to procreate and bring forth a race of people made in God's own image to know Him and to enjoy Him in eternal life. Adam and Eve lost eternal life when they entered into death through sin. They were dead on their feet, and execution was called for. In order to stop sin from ruining God's plan of making a race of people like Himself, rather than take Adam and Eve's hides and let their bodies return to the dust immediately, God took animal hide and covered Adam and Eve with it. The leaves were Adam and Eve's own attempt to cover their sin from God to keep eternal life, which they hoped to maintain by hiding from God. God would not allow them to get away with this, He could not allow them to get away with this. He had given His Word that they would die if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and God cannot lie. He had to execute Justice agasint Adam and Eve. He took animal sacrice in place of Adam and Eve and covered them with the skins. The skins were God's covering for their sin, and a constant reminder of the death they had entered into through sin. The blood sacrifce allow temporary reprieve from execution for Adam and Eve.

Cain's offering represented the same thing as the leaves Adam and Eve had tried to cover themselves with. God requires a blood sacrifice to pay for our sin because the life of the flesh is in the blood. Abel's sacrifice was in faith honoring God's work of covering mankinds sin. Cain's work was not in accordance with the knowledge of God, and it was not accepted by God as representative of the penalty of sin.

By faith (knowledge of God) Abel offered up a more excellent sacrifice.....(Hebrews 11)

The blood sacrifice was the foreteller, the precursor of what God intended to do Himself when the time was right, after Adam and Eve had filled the earth to a certain point with people at a certain time in histroy. When that time came, a litttle over two thousand years ago, God Himself became the sacrifice. It is not possible for the blood of animals to remove sin. God took our sin on Himself so He can be just to forgive all who believe He died in their place to redeem them from eternal death in Hell. His name is Jesus Christ the Saviour, who came down from His place as the Creator and humbled himself as a man to pay for mankinds sin to buy them back from the Hell they had sold themselves into through sin.

If you will repent and believe on the resurrected Saviour, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and receive Him by faith (belief based on knowledge of God) you will be saved. If you honestly approach God with words admitting your guilt before Him and asking Him in jesus's name to save you, He will hear you and He will save you from Hell and you will have eternal life. Jesus Christ Himseilf will come in to you and be your life. His life is eternal and you will be in his resurrection in eternal life.

All religkion is nothing more than what Adam and Eve were doing as they tried to hide themselves from God by covering themselves in the self-deluding hope of maintaining their existence free from execution by God against their sin.

If you will not accept God's judgement as righteous and good, how can you ask God for mercy to spare you from Hell?

If you believe God and come to Him through Jesus Christ and get saved from Hell, you will find His Word is alive and you will stop trusting in science which is based on lies when it says there is no God. True science cannot discount God any more than Adam and Eve could hide from God by covering themselves with leaves. False science is nothing but the desire of people to avoid God's judgement against their sin. It can't be done. God cannot be denied your existence. He will keep you in Heaven or He will keep you in Hell. You are chooing eternal life or eternal death, and blaming God will not get you out of Hell if you wake up there. I hope you repent and believe on the Lord jesus Christ before your time is gone and ceases to count down in eternal death in Hell.
Skyangel
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10/25/2014 5:45:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
Let's set the stage, here, for the glaring holes in the story that beg to be filled:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Why, precisely, did the deity look with disfavor upon the offering of Cain?

....etc.... (deleted due to lack of space.) ....

I really don't get it, people... Are all of you christians REALLY unable to see that this book is a completely fraudulent fabrication that has so completely stunted the advancement of humanity? Is the fear of reality really so frightening to you that you are willing to sacrifice the single most precious gift you have, as an human (reason), to the false security provided by pure fantasy?

Gullible people are frightened by reality. They hide in fantasy land and want to believe that they end up living happily ever after for all eternity like any fairy story ends with a happy ever after ending.

The bible story is a Jewish myth regarding Jewish ancestory. You will notice the bible does not include Chinese, Japanese, German, French, African, American, Australian, etc. etc. It is all about Jews. Any other people in the world are totally ignored in the first stories. The ancient Jews believed that the whole world was made up of Jews. They had no clue the world had more countries than they could see with their own eyes.

Pure bred Jews reproduce pure bred Jews. They cannot reproduce people of other colors. Since that is the case, where do you suppose all the rest of the colored people in this world came from? Where did all the variety come from if the only humans on the planet at one stage of history were only Jews who interbred with no one else but Jews? Australian aboriginals certainly did not come from any Jewish culture. They have their own myths about their ancestry and the creation of the world. So do all other cultures which are not Jewish.

The fact is our ancestors were all superstitious and gullible. They handed down fantasy from one generation to the next and still do to this very day because that is the way humans are brainwashed from birth. Very few escape the land of fantasy and face reality. Most are busy trying to escape reality all their lives.
bornofgod
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10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.
ThinkFirst
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10/25/2014 9:55:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 5:39:49 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I was going to give detailed answers for all of your questions, but after reading through this long dissertation which pretty much conludes with "I will accept no answer which might imply that I am guilty of sin" I decided not to bother.

That statement was never made nor implied. Your "not bothering" means you had nothing to offer.

I will answer your first question about Cain, and that's all. It's a good start, but you probably will reject the answer anyways. If you reject this answer hands down, you probably won't believe Hell is real unless it is forced upon you and there is nothing I can do to show you God loves you and wants you to be saved from Hell.

Hell is not real. I will never accept that it is.. No deity that could conceive of a place like "hell" is even capable of love, as humans understand it, so save your fire-and-brimstone preacher breath. That was a nice segue caveat to cover you rejection based on an ultimately ignorant response - all of it based on the ignorant bible, of course.

The answer is not so hard. I don't know where you learned this lne of questioning which seems to show you have been schooled or done research in religious studies, but it's a shame that whoever taught you this kind of quetioning did not understand the Bible.

I've told you before that I grew up studying the bible. Both of my parents "understand" the bible far better than you do. I was taught by some of the most devout and informed christians in existence. You might as well have come right out and said what you really meant: "Too bad they didn't think like me..." I rejected their teaching, because they were all based on the bible. Any teaching based on the bible are based on ignorance and superstition. Those are not teachings. They are mental stunting.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they did not moment that from that moment onward they were dead on their feet. The knew they were in trouble and hid themselves from God by covering themselves with leaves, but they did not realize sin had killed them already in that they were separated from God by what they had done. This was the trick the devil had played on Eve, to make her think she could still be alive in sin. God called to them while they were hiding from Him, and they came out and told God what they had done, first saying they saw they were naked. They had tried to cover themselves with leaves to hide their nakedness because they did not want God to see them. They knew they had sinned agaisnt God in disobeying the only law He had ever given them. They were afraid of what He was going to do to them. They did not understand what "die" meant, because they had never seen anything die. Death was not in the world untill they brought it in by sinning against God. God still had a plan for Adam and Eve to procreate and bring forth a race of people made in God's own image to know Him and to enjoy Him in eternal life. Adam and Eve lost eternal life when they entered into death through sin. They were dead on their feet, and execution was called for. In order to stop sin from ruining God's plan of making a race of people like Himself, rather than take Adam and Eve's hides and let their bodies return to the dust immediately, God took animal hide and covered Adam and Eve with it. The leaves were Adam and Eve's own attempt to cover their sin from God to keep eternal life, which they hoped to maintain by hiding from God. God would not allow them to get away with this, He could not allow them to get away with this. He had given His Word that they would die if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and God cannot lie. He had to execute Justice agasint Adam and Eve. He took animal sacrice in place of Adam and Eve and covered them with the skins. The skins were God's covering for their sin, and a constant reminder of the death they had entered into through sin. The blood sacrifce allow temporary reprieve from execution for Adam and Eve.

Cute story, kid. Too bad it's completely hollow and vapid regurgitation of biblical superstitious nonsense. You do realize that your answers are completely meaningless to someone that has fully read, understood, and rejected your bible, right?

Cain's offering represented the same thing as the leaves Adam and Eve had tried to cover themselves with. God requires a blood sacrifice to pay for our sin because the life of the flesh is in the blood. Abel's sacrifice was in faith honoring God's work of covering mankinds sin. Cain's work was not in accordance with the knowledge of God, and it was not accepted by God as representative of the penalty of sin.

This response was nothing short of stupid. Cain's offering was, in NO WAY, related to Adam and Eve's covering. It was a sacrifice of the fruits of his labor.

By faith (knowledge of God) Abel offered up a more excellent sacrifice.....(Hebrews 11)

Faith and knowledge are mutually exclusive. Period.

The blood sacrifice was the foreteller, the precursor of what God intended to do Himself when the time was right, after Adam and Eve had filled the earth to a certain point with people at a certain time in histroy. When that time came, a litttle over two thousand years ago, God Himself became the sacrifice. It is not possible for the blood of animals to remove sin. God took our sin on Himself so He can be just to forgive all who believe He died in their place to redeem them from eternal death in Hell. His name is Jesus Christ the Saviour, who came down from His place as the Creator and humbled himself as a man to pay for mankinds sin to buy them back from the Hell they had sold themselves into through sin.

I see you believe in the trinity. This, also, is stupid. If the deity had died, there would be no deity to resurrect. This is utter stupidity.

If you will repent and believe on the resurrected Saviour, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and receive Him by faith (belief based on knowledge of God) you will be saved. If you honestly approach God with words admitting your guilt before Him and asking Him in jesus's name to save you, He will hear you and He will save you from Hell and you will have eternal life. Jesus Christ Himseilf will come in to you and be your life. His life is eternal and you will be in his resurrection in eternal life.

I will not repent. Your deity means nothing to me. I owe no repentance.

All religkion is nothing more than what Adam and Eve were doing as they tried to hide themselves from God by covering themselves in the self-deluding hope of maintaining their existence free from execution by God against their sin.

Religion is the enactment of written stupidity.

If you will not accept God's judgement as righteous and good, how can you ask God for mercy to spare you from Hell?

I intend to request no mercy. I don't need it. There is no hell.

If you believe God and come to Him through Jesus Christ and get saved from Hell, you will find His Word is alive and you will stop trusting in science which is based on lies when it says there is no God. True science cannot discount God any more than Adam and Eve could hide from God by covering themselves with leaves. False science is nothing but the desire of people to avoid God's judgement against their sin. It can't be done. God cannot be denied your existence. He will keep you in Heaven or He will keep you in Hell. You are chooing eternal life or eternal death, and blaming God will not get you out of Hell if you wake up there. I hope you repent and believe on the Lord jesus Christ before your time is gone and ceases to count down in eternal death in Hell.

Science is not based on lies. It is based on a truth more honest than any religion has ever known. Man will only be free when religion has been erased from man's memory.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
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10/25/2014 10:05:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 5:45:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
Let's set the stage, here, for the glaring holes in the story that beg to be filled:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Why, precisely, did the deity look with disfavor upon the offering of Cain?

....etc.... (deleted due to lack of space.) ....

Expected and understood.

I really don't get it, people... Are all of you christians REALLY unable to see that this book is a completely fraudulent fabrication that has so completely stunted the advancement of humanity? Is the fear of reality really so frightening to you that you are willing to sacrifice the single most precious gift you have, as an human (reason), to the false security provided by pure fantasy?


Gullible people are frightened by reality. They hide in fantasy land and want to believe that they end up living happily ever after for all eternity like any fairy story ends with a happy ever after ending.

The bible story is a Jewish myth regarding Jewish ancestory. You will notice the bible does not include Chinese, Japanese, German, French, African, American, Australian, etc. etc. It is all about Jews. Any other people in the world are totally ignored in the first stories.

This is because they believed themselves to be the only true descendants of the "chosen." Had their stories been true, All people would have been inter-related (thus, Jews).

The ancient Jews believed that the whole world was made up of Jews. They had no clue the world had more countries than they could see with their own eyes.

While this is not accurate, they did believe that the whole world REVOLVED around the Jew.

Pure bred Jews reproduce pure bred Jews.

You are aware that Jew is not a "race," right? There are three "races" on this planet:

Negroid
Mongoloid
Caucasoid

These are physiological classifications, and the Jew is not among them.

They cannot reproduce people of other colors. Since that is the case, where do you suppose all the rest of the colored people in this world came from?

The "colors" were (as far as I have been able to surmise) mutational adaptations to environments, just like every other genus/species.

Where did all the variety come from if the only humans on the planet at one stage of history were only Jews who interbred with no one else but Jews? Australian aboriginals certainly did not come from any Jewish culture. They have their own myths about their ancestry and the creation of the world. So do all other cultures which are not Jewish.

All ancient cultures have myths. That's all ancient cultures CAN have. Only modern cultures have science and rational inquiry.

The fact is our ancestors were all superstitious and gullible. They handed down fantasy from one generation to the next and still do to this very day because that is the way humans are brainwashed from birth. Very few escape the land of fantasy and face reality. Most are busy trying to escape reality all their lives.

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The vast majority spend their entire lives running TOWARD it (fantasy). Without this, their view of life is too bleak to continue the struggle.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
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10/25/2014 10:13:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 4:12:26 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 4:09:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

It does no good trying to dissuade him. Just let him be.

I know fully that you are completely right. The diatribe is just so meaningless. He just like the annoying gnat that won't stop buzzing my eyes, while I'm mowing the lawn...
BOG is a proven LIAR & DECEIVER apart from being a literal Street / park dwelling BUM!

How can I / we be certain of this you may well ask?

Well apart from BOG's own fatal admissions, I wrote to the Pastor ' Tracy ' where BOG went / goes for food handouts!

BOG accused Pastor Tracy of being a Lesbian! ' apparently because his god told him!

Pastor Tracy wrote back to me saying she knew Brad a.k.a. BOG and she acknowledged he did come begging for handouts and NO, she was NOT a Lesbian!

QED
ThinkFirst
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10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
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10/25/2014 10:45:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just a couple of points absolutely FATAL to every single religion that relies on their brand of Story book.

i.e. The total evidence ANY supposed ' holy-text ' was given or inspired by a literal Supernatural being, remains a constant zero!

The James Randi Educational Foundation has a $1,000,000 prize for those that can demonstrate ANY Supernatural / Paranormal activity. So far NONE have even passed the basic prerequisites.

&

Using so called xtianities supposedly preferred bible Story book, Death DID NOT come upon Adam & Eve nor originate because of Sin!

How do we know this to be true?

Because in bible Story book land Adam & Eve were Created from their beginning, dependent on the Tree of Life to make them ' live forever '.

Hence they were innately Created MORTAL & Story book god lied that they brought Death upon themselves!

QED

So called xtianity is based upon lies & idle Story book threats.

&

There is a Hell, however it simply refers to ' the grave '.

"Hell" is the English rendering of two different Greek words in the N.T. The English word is from the Anglo-Saxon hel, Genitive case helle = a hidden place, from the Anglo-Saxon helan = to hide. (Bullinger)

A 'helmet' is literally a 'hell-met', meaning a covering for the head. Biblically, this 'covered place', or 'hell', is the grave. There are many examples where the original word 'sheol' is translated 'grave'. Indeed, some modern Bible versions scarcely use the word 'hell', translating it more properly as 'grave'. (Bible Basics 4.9)

&

The next genuine bible believer to maifest ALL the requirements of a said ' believer ' outside of bible Story book land, will be the very first in man's entire history.

Again this is easily proven using the bible propaganda itself. 50+ years I have been successfully decimating various religions and no group nor individual have ever stepped forward to be tested by their own propaganda. Instead they offer every conceivable pathetic excuse why they shouldn't!

&

Why these clowns say they believe what they believe is because deep down they hunger for Story book promises and will do & say anything to try to get them!

Ask them to sign a legally witnessed document stating that they will never claim any such promised Story book divine rewards, should any such mythical thing occur; because they simply want to obey jebus & Or its god, and watch them scurry on their trotters back to their pig-pens of cowardice, lies and deceit!

The Botchtowerites are among the very worst I have ever come across in that they are sworn upon membership to agree to LIE & PREACH ERROR to give the dishonest appearance they are united. Proof of this is located within the Douglas-Walsh Trial Transcript, Scotland, 1954. (Copy still available Online I believe?)

MCB is a typical example of such a malignant LIAR & DECEIVER, despite his being evicted & vomited from the Botchtower he wants to be allowed to rejoin them and is again willing to LIE & PREACH ERROR in order to qualify & re-knew his membership!!

Facts prove that ALL religion is and has been a scourge on decent humanity!

QED
Skyangel
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10/26/2014 12:44:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 10:05:01 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 5:45:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:

The ancient Jews believed that the whole world was made up of Jews. They had no clue the world had more countries than they could see with their own eyes.

While this is not accurate, they did believe that the whole world REVOLVED around the Jew.

Exactly.

They cannot reproduce people of other colors. Since that is the case, where do you suppose all the rest of the colored people in this world came from?

The "colors" were (as far as I have been able to surmise) mutational adaptations to environments, just like every other genus/species.


That is also a myth. Things do not change color due to adapting to environments. Mutations are mutations and have nothing to do with environmental circumstances. Do you think people who are born with two heads or four legs are mutations who have adapted to some environment or just a flaw in the reproductive cycle? Those people exist in reality.

Where did all the variety come from if the only humans on the planet at one stage of history were only Jews who interbred with no one else but Jews? Australian aboriginals certainly did not come from any Jewish culture. They have their own myths about their ancestry and the creation of the world. So do all other cultures which are not Jewish.

All ancient cultures have myths. That's all ancient cultures CAN have. Only modern cultures have science and rational inquiry.

Agreed but there are still very few rational people on this planet. In a billion years from today we will be those ancient cultures.

The fact is our ancestors were all superstitious and gullible. They handed down fantasy from one generation to the next and still do to this very day because that is the way humans are brainwashed from birth. Very few escape the land of fantasy and face reality. Most are busy trying to escape reality all their lives.

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The vast majority spend their entire lives running TOWARD it (fantasy). Without this, their view of life is too bleak to continue the struggle.

Read what I wrote again. I said the same as you just said in different words. To escape reality is the same as running toward fantasy and getting lost in it.
You obviously misunderstood and misinterpreted what I wrote.
bornofgod
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10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.
ThinkFirst
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10/26/2014 8:48:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 12:44:33 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:05:01 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 5:45:56 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:


The ancient Jews believed that the whole world was made up of Jews. They had no clue the world had more countries than they could see with their own eyes.

While this is not accurate, they did believe that the whole world REVOLVED around the Jew.

Exactly.

They cannot reproduce people of other colors. Since that is the case, where do you suppose all the rest of the colored people in this world came from?

The "colors" were (as far as I have been able to surmise) mutational adaptations to environments, just like every other genus/species.


That is also a myth. Things do not change color due to adapting to environments. Mutations are mutations and have nothing to do with environmental circumstances. Do you think people who are born with two heads or four legs are mutations who have adapted to some environment or just a flaw in the reproductive cycle? Those people exist in reality.

Go read about the Italian Wall Lizard. You'll find that you are wrong about this. People that are born with these types of genetic "defects" are most often an "absorbed twin," and you'll find that this anomalous aberration is not a genetic mutation. A genetic mutation generally become PREVALENT in subsequent generations, Not the rarity that you just described. While a mutation is not ALWAYS environmentally triggered, that is one of the possible triggers. It is the most common.

Where did all the variety come from if the only humans on the planet at one stage of history were only Jews who interbred with no one else but Jews? Australian aboriginals certainly did not come from any Jewish culture. They have their own myths about their ancestry and the creation of the world. So do all other cultures which are not Jewish.

All ancient cultures have myths. That's all ancient cultures CAN have. Only modern cultures have science and rational inquiry.

Agreed but there are still very few rational people on this planet. In a billion years from today we will be those ancient cultures.

Yes, and we are likely to be seen as the beginning of another period similar to the Enlightenment, further casting off the vestiges of religious indoctrination. In a few billion years, "we" may not even be "we." I sincerely hope, however, that if humans are still around, that no one is dumb/gullible enough to be waiting, any longer, for any "second coming."

The fact is our ancestors were all superstitious and gullible. They handed down fantasy from one generation to the next and still do to this very day because that is the way humans are brainwashed from birth. Very few escape the land of fantasy and face reality. Most are busy trying to escape reality all their lives.

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The vast majority spend their entire lives running TOWARD it (fantasy). Without this, their view of life is too bleak to continue the struggle.

Read what I wrote again. I said the same as you just said in different words. To escape reality is the same as running toward fantasy and getting lost in it.

You're right. I misread that, the first time. Apologies.

You obviously misunderstood and misinterpreted what I wrote.

I did. Correction accepted.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
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10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
bornofgod
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10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/26/2014 9:17:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.

I was open-minded enough to cast off the delusion of christianity, as a pre-teen (or at least start). What makes you think that not accepting YOUR delusion now makes me "closed-minded?" I recognize the garbage that you spout in here, day in and day out, as garbage. That's all there is to it.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/26/2014 9:18:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:17:16 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.

I was open-minded enough to cast off the delusion of christianity, as a pre-teen (or at least start). What makes you think that not accepting YOUR delusion now makes me "closed-minded?" I recognize the garbage that you spout in here, day in and day out, as garbage. That's all there is to it.

You're too close-minded to accept anyone else's thoughts. This is usually the case with very stupid people who believe their own thoughts are the truth.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/26/2014 9:31:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:18:58 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:17:16 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.

I was open-minded enough to cast off the delusion of christianity, as a pre-teen (or at least start). What makes you think that not accepting YOUR delusion now makes me "closed-minded?" I recognize the garbage that you spout in here, day in and day out, as garbage. That's all there is to it.

You're too close-minded to accept anyone else's thoughts. This is usually the case with very stupid people who believe their own thoughts are the truth.

You mean the way you assume that your thoughts are the truth? Who else has offered "thoughts" that you have accepted? The stupid one is the one that adamantly asserts the utterly ridiculous as concrete truth, despite the absolute absence of evidence or even a substantive REASON for the assertions. Your only support is your claim that "god" has "spoken" through you... A claim backed by a claim is still just a claim. Until there is a reason to believe what you say, I will continue to dismiss your delusional rhetoric, summarily. Either come up with a valid reason for me to even take you seriously enough to consider, or stop replying to my posts. This is all you're ever going to get, from me. I don't care if you're homeless. I don't care if you have mental health issues. I don't care if you've lost everything. I don't care if your food comes from a soup kitchen. Your IDEAS are what I dismiss, not your person. You are, however, quite delusional, and have oscillated from this dream variant to that dream variant, never noticing when you contradict yourself or prove yourself to be quite deluded. You may call me stupid all you wish. I'm OK with that. For your own sake, however, stop replying to MY posts with your deluded message of bad hollywood supernatural B-flick.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/26/2014 9:32:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:31:07 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:18:58 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:17:16 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.

I was open-minded enough to cast off the delusion of christianity, as a pre-teen (or at least start). What makes you think that not accepting YOUR delusion now makes me "closed-minded?" I recognize the garbage that you spout in here, day in and day out, as garbage. That's all there is to it.

You're too close-minded to accept anyone else's thoughts. This is usually the case with very stupid people who believe their own thoughts are the truth.

You mean the way you assume that your thoughts are the truth? Who else has offered "thoughts" that you have accepted? The stupid one is the one that adamantly asserts the utterly ridiculous as concrete truth, despite the absolute absence of evidence or even a substantive REASON for the assertions. Your only support is your claim that "god" has "spoken" through you... A claim backed by a claim is still just a claim. Until there is a reason to believe what you say, I will continue to dismiss your delusional rhetoric, summarily. Either come up with a valid reason for me to even take you seriously enough to consider, or stop replying to my posts. This is all you're ever going to get, from me. I don't care if you're homeless. I don't care if you have mental health issues. I don't care if you've lost everything. I don't care if your food comes from a soup kitchen. Your IDEAS are what I dismiss, not your person. You are, however, quite delusional, and have oscillated from this dream variant to that dream variant, never noticing when you contradict yourself or prove yourself to be quite deluded. You may call me stupid all you wish. I'm OK with that. For your own sake, however, stop replying to MY posts with your deluded message of bad hollywood supernatural B-flick.

I know that all the thoughts that I speak and write with come directly from our invisible Creator. That's why I know the Truth and you don't.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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10/26/2014 9:50:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:32:36 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:31:07 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:18:58 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:17:16 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 9:13:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:54:26 AM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/26/2014 8:23:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:14:18 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 8:10:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

Liars don't have much to tell me and that's why I don't listen to them. If you're interested in deities ( imaginary gods ), go play with the Christians who worship their false gods named Jesus or Mother Mary.

No one is lying, here, but you. Neither the christian deity nor your deity have any more credibility than the other. The are both fictitious creations of human imagination.

Your mind will be changed as you die in this dream.

Doubtful.

You're more close-minded than most Christians who are also close-minded people.

I was open-minded enough to cast off the delusion of christianity, as a pre-teen (or at least start). What makes you think that not accepting YOUR delusion now makes me "closed-minded?" I recognize the garbage that you spout in here, day in and day out, as garbage. That's all there is to it.

You're too close-minded to accept anyone else's thoughts. This is usually the case with very stupid people who believe their own thoughts are the truth.

You mean the way you assume that your thoughts are the truth? Who else has offered "thoughts" that you have accepted? The stupid one is the one that adamantly asserts the utterly ridiculous as concrete truth, despite the absolute absence of evidence or even a substantive REASON for the assertions. Your only support is your claim that "god" has "spoken" through you... A claim backed by a claim is still just a claim. Until there is a reason to believe what you say, I will continue to dismiss your delusional rhetoric, summarily. Either come up with a valid reason for me to even take you seriously enough to consider, or stop replying to my posts. This is all you're ever going to get, from me. I don't care if you're homeless. I don't care if you have mental health issues. I don't care if you've lost everything. I don't care if your food comes from a soup kitchen. Your IDEAS are what I dismiss, not your person. You are, however, quite delusional, and have oscillated from this dream variant to that dream variant, never noticing when you contradict yourself or prove yourself to be quite deluded. You may call me stupid all you wish. I'm OK with that. For your own sake, however, stop replying to MY posts with your deluded message of bad hollywood supernatural B-flick.

I know that all the thoughts that I speak and write with come directly from our invisible Creator. That's why I know the Truth and you don't.

Actually, the thought that you speak and write are more likely to come from a delusional disorder. That's why you believe your words and I don't.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Obed
Posts: 463
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10/26/2014 11:39:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:36:27 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
Let's set the stage, here, for the glaring holes in the story that beg to be filled:

Gen. 4:2b - 5:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Why, precisely, did the deity look with disfavor upon the offering of Cain?

Gen 4:6,7:
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

Nowhere is there any reason ever given for why Cain was in disfavor. What did Cain do wrong? Cain was the firstborn, was he not? Why, when the firstborn is so venerated EVERYWHERE else, did the firstborn receive no such benefit, in the "second generation of humanity?" One can speculate (all that can ever be done, biblically), and say that the deity "knew" what Cain was about to do... Wouldn't showing the "little brother" favor rather prompt the behavior?

Next, you have the deity directly addressing Cain, asking a question to which he already knew the answer. It is reasonable the Cain would fear repercussion and lie, to no avail. However, here is where the story gets a little "weird," in reasonable terms:

After the deity pronounces its judgment, Cain makes a statement that has no basis in fact, to this point...

Gen. 4:14:
14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

Who, precisely, does Cain believe will kill him? To this point, there are all of three people on the earth... Does he fear future generations of his own family? Who is going to "find" him, in order to kill him? Now, once marked to avoid death at the hands of the two remaining humans on the planet (mom & dad), or future brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews... he leaves for Nod. OK...

IMMEDIATELY upon finishing this little chapter, we have Cain "making love" to his wife.................................. WHO??? From where did this woman come? The only POSSIBLE answer would have to be a sister. But there is zero record of her birth... Next, now that he's gotten this mystery woman pregnant, we pan in on our villain "building a city." For... his mystery woman wife and child (Enoch)?

Next, we have four more generations of Cain's line:

Gen. 4:18:
18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

So, now we have FIVE generations of Cain's offspring (firstborn), without the mention of a SINGLE female birth. Are women completely unworthy of being named? I understand that the bible's authors were complete misogynists, but were women NOTHING but baby factories? The very first mention of a female, other than the disobedient hag, Eve, comes by way of Cain's fifth generation...

Gen. 4:19:
19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.

This sets the stage for a new mystery... ANOTHER SLAYING!!!

Gen. 4:23,24
23 Lamech said to his wives,

"Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times."

No details of the altercation are given, but... Who is the "young man?" Now, we're going to back track, just a little... The deity threatens to visit SEVEN TIMES vengeance, on any who kill Cain. How does one die seven times? Now, how does Lamech merit eleven times the vengeance that his great-great-great grandfather did? How was this math derived? On what basis, and by what authority is this statement made? No further details... An ominous pronouncement is just left dangling, and then we flash back to Adam and Eve who, apparently cant still spit out children five generations later...

Now, we come to an amazing juncture...

A while back, there was a discussion involving the meaning of the phrase "call upon the name of the lord." An adamant proponent of the bible smugly issued the edict that this phrase can mean nothing other than "baptism." This chapter ends with that EXACT phrase, but the messiah is still THOUSANDS of years away. We leave this chapter, with never another mention of the attack on Lamech, or the reason or result of his "curse." Further, his attacker is never identified, nor the reason for the attack. If this is the "word of god," why even mention it?

All of this occurs within the fourth chapter of what bible believers claim to be the BEGINNING OF MAN'S HISTORY. With all of the aforementioned, I fail to see the following. These are simply a few of the questions that arise from this ONE chapter, without considering any of the "deeper" aspects of this waste of tree pulp:

The first mention of a female, by name (identity), is solely and exclusively for the purpose of pointing out that both women mentioned were called in to listen to tale of adventure that is all of four lines long, and culminates with a curse, without any apparent basis, mentioned almost in passing, never to be referenced again...

Why are women considered so worthless, in the bible?

The OT goes to great lengths to describe, in detail, some of the most absurd requirements (without clarification), some of the most meaningless and trivial practices, and some of the most fantastical groundwork for spectacular stories, but leaves necessary details completely out of the more important aspects of crucial stories (Cain's disfavor, for example).

Can we really be expected to believe that the ancient Jews didn't just make all this up?

Faith:
That which IS "revealed" in Genesis appears to be the rough draft of an amateur story teller, before stopping to consider all of the questions that might be raised. Imagine telling a story like this to a child, and the child looking up at you and saying, "But, why? Why did god hate Cain?"

All can had to do was humble himself. Cain could have told God that he was sorry. He should have asked God what he could do to make a better sacrifice. He could have been glad for his brother.
That is how we come to salvation now, by humbling ourselves, by admitting our wrong and repenting of it.
As for you saying the first born is usually honored everywhere else"you are speaking from a human way. God"s ways are not our ways. God does not choose people according to their birth order; take for instance Esau and Jacob.
At one point, you are angry with the stories in the Bible, the next moment, you are angry about the stories being too short and not enough detail.
As for Adam and Eve"s children, they had around forty children easily. Adam lived to be in his 900"s. They most likely had many daughters before Seth was born. Cain and Able could have taken their sister or niece as a wife. They could have had more than one wife. If just Adam and Eve had forty children, and their forty children had forty children, one could see how thousands could be born from just one set of parents.
As for what you say about faith"faith is major. Faith is about the deep things in a person"s heart. See, a person could obey anyone and do anything"but faith tells us what is in the heart. In the old law, no one had to have faith to be called a child of God. The law was not based on faith. A person could obey the law and be called a child of God. Now, no one can be saved without faith with obedience.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/26/2014 11:43:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

While you are more than free to call his claim delusions, calling him short-bus is really uncalled for.
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ThinkFirst
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10/26/2014 5:29:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 11:39:56 AM, Obed wrote:

All can had to do was humble himself. Cain could have told God that he was sorry. He should have asked God what he could do to make a better sacrifice. He could have been glad for his brother.

Could have, should have, would have... This still does not explain what Cain did wrong. All you've done is criticize how Cain responded. This means absolutely NOTHING. What was his original infraction?

That is how we come to salvation now, by humbling ourselves, by admitting our wrong and repenting of it.

No salvation necessary, as the christian deity does not exist.

As for you saying the first born is usually honored everywhere else"you are speaking from a human way. God"s ways are not our ways. God does not choose people according to their birth order; take for instance Esau and Jacob.

No, I was speaking biblically. It is the biblical way for the firstborn to receive all the benefit and the inheritance... This is not "man's way," but the biblical way. Try again.

At one point, you are angry with the stories in the Bible, the next moment, you are angry about the stories being too short and not enough detail.

I'm not angry, at all. If this is all you have to try to straw man arguments and rational criticism, you might want to hit the "kid's table," first. If you are not going to offer anything of a challenge, to an objective argument, you might as well not even reply.

As for Adam and Eve"s children, they had around forty children easily.

Speculation, and of zero value.

Adam lived to be in his 900"s.

That's what the bible claims. There is no way to corroborate or falsify it. I don't believe it.

They most likely had many daughters before Seth was born. Cain and Able could have taken their sister or niece as a wife.

So the biblical origin of the species was based on inbreeding...? Incest is pretty dangerous. Did your deity no know this?

They could have had more than one wife. If just Adam and Eve had forty children, and their forty children had forty children, one could see how thousands could be born from just one set of parents.

If... Maybe... It could have... It might have... If you read "in context..." I believe it was probably... It's always based on speculation, interpretation, and manipulation, when you have to explain the stupidity, inconsistencies, and contradictions, in the bible. And it always seems to be on the fringe or extremes of "explanations." Doesn't it ever bother you that none of your beliefs make consistent sense? Don't you get tired of having to find the little crevices into which you have to stuff your god?

As for what you say about faith"faith is major. Faith is about the deep things in a person"s heart. See, a person could obey anyone and do anything"but faith tells us what is in the heart. In the old law, no one had to have faith to be called a child of God. The law was not based on faith. A person could obey the law and be called a child of God. Now, no one can be saved without faith with obedience.

That's cute. Unfortunately, faith never makes any sense, either. Given that there are son many different takes on what it takes to be "saved," and only one interpretation can be right, doesn't that leave the christians in a very precarisous position?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
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10/26/2014 5:32:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 11:43:53 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:56:37 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
At 10/25/2014 3:48:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:

God wasn't interested in telling me about these Bible stories that Christians are so interested in. Instead, He taught me about who we are in Him, the future and how we'll be living in the next age and exactly how He created us. This was the important knowledge He wanted me to know.

OK, listen, short-bus: No one here accepts that you are anything other than a delusional attention-seeker. No deity "told" you anything. You are not in communication with any deity. You don't have any special or unique information. You don't know anything about the future. You are not special in any significant sense of the term. You don't "know" who "we are in god." You have pretty much the SAME ambiguous answer to each and every thread, and you have been rejected by every single poster I have ever seen in here. Don't you ever get tired of trying to convince people to come accept your delusional stupidity?

While you are more than free to call his claim delusions, calling him short-bus is really uncalled for.

You're probably right.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
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"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein