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If Atheist's are smarter than Christian's....

biznis
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10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.

Not "ALL" of Atheist's or the like...but quite a few.....
DanneJeRusse
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10/26/2014 2:08:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.


Certainly, I've noticed some threads in which particular questions are asked whereupon the responses are dismissed as unworthy and the respondents' intelligence insulted. Such threads appear willfully created not for any discussion purposes, but instead to cause conflict.

Perhaps, you're observing the result of that.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
biznis
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10/26/2014 10:35:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 2:08:53 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.


Certainly, I've noticed some threads in which particular questions are asked whereupon the responses are dismissed as unworthy and the respondents' intelligence insulted.

No responses have been dismissed and no conclusions have been drawn about any of the 4 words I asked about in my initial post...that's what you don't understand.....I am was/trying to gather "descriptive" words on those words .....This is at least the 2nd time I have said this....I want to hear multiple people's opinion on all my post's and I believe everyone else does as well

God- breathed - "A term used to describe Holy Scripture" ........Very vague...

God -Inspired- "Same as 3" Even vaguer of a definition.....Very little thought to generate the response.....took me longer to respond

Word of God- "Can be Scripture?" That is vague....You mean sometimes the Word of God is not in Scripture? That is what can be Scripture implies.....so yes vague......

"Or this name has been attributed to Jesus Christ"...again vague.....In what fashion has this name been attributed to Jesus Christ? You mean this what people called him or when he spoke...that is considered the "word of God"? Is that what you mean? If so, you need to be clear when attempting to define any word.....

By definition...definition's are "not" vague........and they like anything else require careful contemplation and thinking.

Scripture- "any writings in the bible" .....Vague... Which Bible? the Old or New Testament or both? Bible is called the Bible for both Jewish and Christian.

One believes only in the Old testament the other in both......any definition of Scripture should reflect this.......

So again, the responses were vague....and vague words are not used for definitions...not when there are accurate words available......

Thanks again for the replies...



Beastt
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10/26/2014 10:59:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?
Because most Christians won't even consider engaging against our rational and demonstrable points of solid reason. You leave us little choice.

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....
But when we provide solid, reasoned, evidenced and demonstrable challenges showing your beliefs to be wrong, it DOES require thought. So we end up receiving ridiculous evasions, diversions, and scripture instead of an honest reasoned response.

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....
I'm glad to see you've limited your bias.

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.
Sorry, but when you present someone with a solid, reasoned, evidence and confirmed argument and they respond with "repent to Jesus", it doesn't leave a lot of room to continue with a rational intelligent discussion. And quite often, that's the kind of response we receive.

For example; I'm currently engaged in a discussion with a Christian who absolutely insists that humans aren't "apes". I've explained that "ape" is a biological classification which encompasses homo sapiens, and yet, he still flatly insists that he's "a man, not an ape". How does one move forward with an intelligent, rational discussion with someone who is so intellectually shallow as to not understand the basic concept of a defined classification? I'm not responsible for the intellectual deficits of those who attempt to engage me in debate. If they leave only immature rhetoric and evasion tactics available, then that is what they're likely to receive.

in short, if someone is childish in their responses; or simply incapable of anything superior to a "childish" response, it does little good to try to elevate the level of intellect invested in the discussion.

Not "ALL" of Atheist's or the like...but quite a few.....
I have no problem with engaging with Christians at an honest, intelligent, reasoned mode of discourse. But when speaking to a child, one often has to speak in the terms understood by a child. And while I know that sounds like an insult, it's an unfortunate reality, as often as not.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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10/26/2014 11:29:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

http://www.debate.org...
Click the link and read posts 23 through 30. You'll have your answer. Obed is a classic example of the kind of ridiculous tactics Christians employ, under the name of "debate". And he leaves no option for reasonable, rational, logical and intelligent debate. And this should be seen as the problem, rather than becoming upset with people who become frustrated at trying to respond to someone demonstrating all of the intellect of graffiti on a wall.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ThinkFirst
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10/27/2014 2:42:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Often, it's because that's all that is deserved by the comment to which they are replying.

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Just like belief in the bible.

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Indeed.

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.

The vast majority of the arguments for deities, and their subsequent refutations, have been exhausted. There are some original "spins" on this topic or that, but this is a forum where people come when the don't have "credentials" of a charlatan like William Lane Craig, but still want to voice their view. The views expressed on this forum are generally more emotional (on both sides) than those expressed in a forma debate. This is less so on the atheist/agnostic side, but the ath/ag side is not devoid of its own emotional content, either.

Not "ALL" of Atheist's or the like...but quite a few.....

In short, much of what is posted by theists on this site is just laughable, when they attempt to convince people that their FAITH has any basis in REASON. If there is any "reason" at all, it is no longer faith. Too many theists attempt to use scientific means of "proving" or "legitimizing" their beliefs, and that's when it just becomes comical. When there is a serious argument made, I'm sure you'll see a serious response, as well. I'm pretty sure you'll see the "heckling" confined to the minority of posters, though the most prolific among them. It's hard to take a theistic argument seriously, though, when trying to reconcile the ignorance of ancient and superstitious people with modern knowledge and understanding of the universe around us. It's a juggling, acrobatic act of intellectual contortions on an unprecedented scale, and to watch it is, sometimes, almost impressive. Most of the time, though, it's just laughable.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
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"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
MsIndependent
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10/27/2014 3:12:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 10:35:03 PM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 2:08:53 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.


Certainly, I've noticed some threads in which particular questions are asked whereupon the responses are dismissed as unworthy and the respondents' intelligence insulted.

No responses have been dismissed and no conclusions have been drawn about any of the 4 words I asked about in my initial post...that's what you don't understand.....I am was/trying to gather "descriptive" words on those words .....This is at least the 2nd time I have said this....I want to hear multiple people's opinion on all my post's and I believe everyone else does as well


God- breathed - "A term used to describe Holy Scripture" ........Very vague...

God -Inspired- "Same as 3" Even vaguer of a definition.....Very little thought to generate the response.....took me longer to respond

Word of God- "Can be Scripture?" That is vague....You mean sometimes the Word of God is not in Scripture? That is what can be Scripture implies.....so yes vague......

"Or this name has been attributed to Jesus Christ"...again vague.....In what fashion has this name been attributed to Jesus Christ? You mean this what people called him or when he spoke...that is considered the "word of God"? Is that what you mean? If so, you need to be clear when attempting to define any word.....

By definition...definition's are "not" vague........and they like anything else require careful contemplation and thinking.

Scripture- "any writings in the bible" .....Vague... Which Bible? the Old or New Testament or both? Bible is called the Bible for both Jewish and Christian.

One believes only in the Old testament the other in both......any definition of Scripture should reflect this.......

So again, the responses were vague....and vague words are not used for definitions...not when there are accurate words available......

Thanks again for the replies...


Hello, from what I've studied, the verse speaking on the scripture being God breathe is meaning a devine perfect word straight from Him, and put into the original bible text.
2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit."

Both the old and New Testament are inspired by God because what is in the New Testament was prophesied in the Old Testament.













FaustianJustice
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10/27/2014 3:27:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 3:12:03 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/26/2014 10:35:03 PM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 2:08:53 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.


Certainly, I've noticed some threads in which particular questions are asked whereupon the responses are dismissed as unworthy and the respondents' intelligence insulted.

No responses have been dismissed and no conclusions have been drawn about any of the 4 words I asked about in my initial post...that's what you don't understand.....I am was/trying to gather "descriptive" words on those words .....This is at least the 2nd time I have said this....I want to hear multiple people's opinion on all my post's and I believe everyone else does as well


God- breathed - "A term used to describe Holy Scripture" ........Very vague...

God -Inspired- "Same as 3" Even vaguer of a definition.....Very little thought to generate the response.....took me longer to respond

Word of God- "Can be Scripture?" That is vague....You mean sometimes the Word of God is not in Scripture? That is what can be Scripture implies.....so yes vague......

"Or this name has been attributed to Jesus Christ"...again vague.....In what fashion has this name been attributed to Jesus Christ? You mean this what people called him or when he spoke...that is considered the "word of God"? Is that what you mean? If so, you need to be clear when attempting to define any word.....

By definition...definition's are "not" vague........and they like anything else require careful contemplation and thinking.

Scripture- "any writings in the bible" .....Vague... Which Bible? the Old or New Testament or both? Bible is called the Bible for both Jewish and Christian.

One believes only in the Old testament the other in both......any definition of Scripture should reflect this.......

So again, the responses were vague....and vague words are not used for definitions...not when there are accurate words available......

Thanks again for the replies...


Hello, from what I've studied, the verse speaking on the scripture being God breathe is meaning a devine perfect word straight from Him, and put into the original bible text.
2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit."

Both the old and New Testament are inspired by God because what is in the New Testament was prophesied in the Old Testament.








Prophesying something, then writing about it in the past tense or writing about how it was fulfilled is not prophesying.

Were I to make mention of me getting a Mt. Dew in the next thirty, then post about it in another thread, thirty minutes later, what legitimacy would that have over those that compiled or wrote the books of the Bible?

That, and trying to seem prophetic about wars, famines, tying imagery of fantastic beasts to government or religion... its a combination of Inkblot test and shooting fish in a barrel.

Lo, a despised man will lead a nation, and sow despair amongst the people, and they shall know not his tyranny while under his rule.

The blind shall follow as sheep, the learned shall stay faithful, and will suffer ridicule, <more fortune cookie here>.

Its as formulaic as it is vague.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MsIndependent
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10/27/2014 3:39:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 3:27:26 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:12:03 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/26/2014 10:35:03 PM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 2:08:53 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.


Certainly, I've noticed some threads in which particular questions are asked whereupon the responses are dismissed as unworthy and the respondents' intelligence insulted.

No responses have been dismissed and no conclusions have been drawn about any of the 4 words I asked about in my initial post...that's what you don't understand.....I am was/trying to gather "descriptive" words on those words .....This is at least the 2nd time I have said this....I want to hear multiple people's opinion on all my post's and I believe everyone else does as well


God- breathed - "A term used to describe Holy Scripture" ........Very vague...

God -Inspired- "Same as 3" Even vaguer of a definition.....Very little thought to generate the response.....took me longer to respond

Word of God- "Can be Scripture?" That is vague....You mean sometimes the Word of God is not in Scripture? That is what can be Scripture implies.....so yes vague......

"Or this name has been attributed to Jesus Christ"...again vague.....In what fashion has this name been attributed to Jesus Christ? You mean this what people called him or when he spoke...that is considered the "word of God"? Is that what you mean? If so, you need to be clear when attempting to define any word.....

By definition...definition's are "not" vague........and they like anything else require careful contemplation and thinking.

Scripture- "any writings in the bible" .....Vague... Which Bible? the Old or New Testament or both? Bible is called the Bible for both Jewish and Christian.

One believes only in the Old testament the other in both......any definition of Scripture should reflect this.......

So again, the responses were vague....and vague words are not used for definitions...not when there are accurate words available......

Thanks again for the replies...


Hello, from what I've studied, the verse speaking on the scripture being God breathe is meaning a devine perfect word straight from Him, and put into the original bible text.
2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit."

Both the old and New Testament are inspired by God because what is in the New Testament was prophesied in the Old Testament.









Prophesying something, then writing about it in the past tense or writing about how it was fulfilled is not prophesying.

Were I to make mention of me getting a Mt. Dew in the next thirty, then post about it in another thread, thirty minutes later, what legitimacy would that have over those that compiled or wrote the books of the Bible?

That, and trying to seem prophetic about wars, famines, tying imagery of fantastic beasts to government or religion... its a combination of Inkblot test and shooting fish in a barrel.

Lo, a despised man will lead a nation, and sow despair amongst the people, and they shall know not his tyranny while under his rule.

The blind shall follow as sheep, the learned shall stay faithful, and will suffer ridicule, <more fortune cookie here>.

Its as formulaic as it is vague.

Really? Oh so what prophecy was I referring to?
FaustianJustice
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10/27/2014 3:44:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Or this name has been attributed to Jesus Christ"...again vague.....In what fashion has this name been attributed to Jesus Christ? You mean this what people called him or when he spoke...that is considered the "word of God"? Is that what you mean? If so, you need to be clear when attempting to define any word.....

By definition...definition's are "not" vague........and they like anything else require careful contemplation and thinking.

Scripture- "any writings in the bible" .....Vague... Which Bible? the Old or New Testament or both? Bible is called the Bible for both Jewish and Christian.

One believes only in the Old testament the other in both......any definition of Scripture should reflect this.......

So again, the responses were vague....and vague words are not used for definitions...not when there are accurate words available......

Thanks again for the replies...


Hello, from what I've studied, the verse speaking on the scripture being God breathe is meaning a devine perfect word straight from Him, and put into the original bible text.
2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit."

Both the old and New Testament are inspired by God because what is in the New Testament was prophesied in the Old Testament.









Prophesying something, then writing about it in the past tense or writing about how it was fulfilled is not prophesying.

Were I to make mention of me getting a Mt. Dew in the next thirty, then post about it in another thread, thirty minutes later, what legitimacy would that have over those that compiled or wrote the books of the Bible?

That, and trying to seem prophetic about wars, famines, tying imagery of fantastic beasts to government or religion... its a combination of Inkblot test and shooting fish in a barrel.

Lo, a despised man will lead a nation, and sow despair amongst the people, and they shall know not his tyranny while under his rule.

The blind shall follow as sheep, the learned shall stay faithful, and will suffer ridicule, <more fortune cookie here>.

Its as formulaic as it is vague.

Really? Oh so what prophecy was I referring to?

... the one with the ink, and the blot, and the fish, and the barrel. The point is that it doesn't matter which one, if it was written in a book, and comes true... IN THAT BOOK, doesn't that call into question a certain degree of convenience? Would you agree that perhaps the 'as of yet unfulfilled' prophecies might be just a touch to... specific? So specific as to rule out the vagaries of perception prophecies inherently have?

And Lo, his Mt. Dew was refreshed. Prophecy fulfilled. So it is with the Bible.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MsIndependent
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10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
FaustianJustice
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10/27/2014 3:59:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?

The drafts were written, or the actual writings? Or the re writings with... maybe... a touch of editing. Or the part where we drop out a LOT of books, since the stuff referenced there doesn't add up.

And lo, a man shall come to bring us closer to God, and die for our sins.
Literally, any Mook will do.

Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly if you wanna be cynical), despite Jesus' obvious importance, Post Bible (for the time) he was not written about again for 200 years, give or take. How is it the great philosophical thinkers whom bear NO consequence to God are given account of MANY years before Christ, by MANY different followers, and all printed to varying degrees in MANY different books, but Jesus, the SON OF GOD, on other hand...

-cricket chirp-

The Art of War was penned a good time before the Birth of Christ. Why is it origins so incredibly NON nebulous to trace back through the annals of history, but The Bible, on the other hand, preys upon dead spots in history to make its points.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Beastt
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10/27/2014 4:03:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?

It didn't. And what may be more significant is that we don't know if Jesus ever actually existed. The evidence speaks overwhelmingly against it. And when people insist to the contrary, ask them for evidence aside from the five historical references all written after the supposed time of Jesus, which were all mere hearsay. We have historical hearsay references to Zeus as well. All it says is that the historian heard a story. It says nothing as to the validity of the story.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
biznis
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10/27/2014 4:10:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 10:59:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?
Because most Christians won't even consider engaging against our rational and demonstrable points of solid reason. You leave us little choice.

Inflammatory, heckling, and nonsense....replies and questions....is not very intelligent and requires little to no thought....
But when we provide solid, reasoned, evidenced and demonstrable challenges showing your beliefs to be wrong, it DOES require thought. So we end up receiving ridiculous evasions, diversions, and scripture instead of an honest reasoned response.

Christian's who do the same to Atheist's......can be put in the same group.....
I'm glad to see you've limited your bias.

Neither group can be considered too bright or they would be able to come up with more meaningful and productive responses or have the sense to not respond at all.
Sorry, but when you present someone with a solid, reasoned, evidence and confirmed argument and they respond with "repent to Jesus", it doesn't leave a lot of room to continue with a rational intelligent discussion. And quite often, that's the kind of response we receive.

For example; I'm currently engaged in a discussion with a Christian who absolutely insists that humans aren't "apes". I've explained that "ape" is a biological classification which encompasses homo sapiens, and yet, he still flatly insists that he's "a man, not an ape". How does one move forward with an intelligent, rational discussion with someone who is so intellectually shallow as to not understand the basic concept of a defined classification? I'm not responsible for the intellectual deficits of those who attempt to engage me in debate. If they leave only immature rhetoric and evasion tactics available, then that is what they're likely to receive.

in short, if someone is childish in their responses; or simply incapable of anything superior to a "childish" response, it does little good to try to elevate the level of intellect invested in the discussion.

Not "ALL" of Atheist's or the like...but quite a few.....
I have no problem with engaging with Christians at an honest, intelligent, reasoned mode of discourse. But when speaking to a child, one often has to speak in the terms understood by a child. And while I know that sounds like an insult, it's an unfortunate reality, as often as not.

Agree
biznis
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10/27/2014 4:17:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 11:29:35 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

http://www.debate.org...
Click the link and read posts 23 through 30. You'll have your answer. Obed is a classic example of the kind of ridiculous tactics Christians employ, under the name of "debate". And he leaves no option for reasonable, rational, logical and intelligent debate. And this should be seen as the problem, rather than becoming upset with people who become frustrated at trying to respond to someone demonstrating all of the intellect of graffiti on a wall.

I'm a "Christian" with questions...possibly....im not playing with ya......I'm just not sure what to call myself presently.......

your opinion is valuable to me because I believe you know pretty much what Christian's believe.....and if you know what they believe...you may not believe it or like it....but you can imagine enough to be able to answer my questions accurately within the context of Christianity.

I can likely get very quality responses.....
bulproof
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10/27/2014 4:20:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
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10/27/2014 4:23:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:17:06 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 11:29:35 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

http://www.debate.org...
Click the link and read posts 23 through 30. You'll have your answer. Obed is a classic example of the kind of ridiculous tactics Christians employ, under the name of "debate". And he leaves no option for reasonable, rational, logical and intelligent debate. And this should be seen as the problem, rather than becoming upset with people who become frustrated at trying to respond to someone demonstrating all of the intellect of graffiti on a wall.

I'm a "Christian" with questions...possibly....im not playing with ya......I'm just not sure what to call myself presently.......

your opinion is valuable to me because I believe you know pretty much what Christian's believe.....and if you know what they believe...you may not believe it or like it....but you can imagine enough to be able to answer my questions accurately within the context of Christianity.

I can likely get very quality responses.....

I'm willing to be as helpful as I can. I've spent quite a lot of time studying religions and Christianity in particular. I can't offer you much in the way of encouragement in regard to supporting Christianity. I guess it goes without saying that if I thought Christianity was true, I'd be a Christian. I'm not a Christian because I find no reason to believe that any of it is true.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
MsIndependent
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10/27/2014 4:25:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:03:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?

It didn't. And what may be more significant is that we don't know if Jesus ever actually existed. The evidence speaks overwhelmingly against it. And when people insist to the contrary, ask them for evidence aside from the five historical references all written after the supposed time of Jesus, which were all mere hearsay. We have historical hearsay references to Zeus as well. All it says is that the historian heard a story. It says nothing as to the validity of the story.

Actually, it did. Study on.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:27:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:23:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:17:06 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 11:29:35 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

http://www.debate.org...
Click the link and read posts 23 through 30. You'll have your answer. Obed is a classic example of the kind of ridiculous tactics Christians employ, under the name of "debate". And he leaves no option for reasonable, rational, logical and intelligent debate. And this should be seen as the problem, rather than becoming upset with people who become frustrated at trying to respond to someone demonstrating all of the intellect of graffiti on a wall.

I'm a "Christian" with questions...possibly....im not playing with ya......I'm just not sure what to call myself presently.......

your opinion is valuable to me because I believe you know pretty much what Christian's believe.....and if you know what they believe...you may not believe it or like it....but you can imagine enough to be able to answer my questions accurately within the context of Christianity.

I can likely get very quality responses.....

I'm willing to be as helpful as I can. I've spent quite a lot of time studying religions and Christianity in particular. I can't offer you much in the way of encouragement in regard to supporting Christianity. I guess it goes without saying that if I thought Christianity was true, I'd be a Christian. I'm not a Christian because I find no reason to believe that any of it is true.

Didn't you mention that you were a Christian for 30+ years?
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:29:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:20:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
w far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:25:25 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:03:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?

It didn't. And what may be more significant is that we don't know if Jesus ever actually existed. The evidence speaks overwhelmingly against it. And when people insist to the contrary, ask them for evidence aside from the five historical references all written after the supposed time of Jesus, which were all mere hearsay. We have historical hearsay references to Zeus as well. All it says is that the historian heard a story. It says nothing as to the validity of the story.


Actually, it did. Study on.
No. Actually, it didn't. And you seem to assume you've studied more than I have. I think you're going to find out that's not the case.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/27/2014 4:31:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:27:33 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:23:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:17:06 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/26/2014 11:29:35 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/26/2014 12:56:10 PM, biznis wrote:
Then why do so many atheist's only reply with inflammatory and heckling responses?

http://www.debate.org...
Click the link and read posts 23 through 30. You'll have your answer. Obed is a classic example of the kind of ridiculous tactics Christians employ, under the name of "debate". And he leaves no option for reasonable, rational, logical and intelligent debate. And this should be seen as the problem, rather than becoming upset with people who become frustrated at trying to respond to someone demonstrating all of the intellect of graffiti on a wall.

I'm a "Christian" with questions...possibly....im not playing with ya......I'm just not sure what to call myself presently.......

your opinion is valuable to me because I believe you know pretty much what Christian's believe.....and if you know what they believe...you may not believe it or like it....but you can imagine enough to be able to answer my questions accurately within the context of Christianity.

I can likely get very quality responses.....

I'm willing to be as helpful as I can. I've spent quite a lot of time studying religions and Christianity in particular. I can't offer you much in the way of encouragement in regard to supporting Christianity. I guess it goes without saying that if I thought Christianity was true, I'd be a Christian. I'm not a Christian because I find no reason to believe that any of it is true.

Didn't you mention that you were a Christian for 30+ years?

I mentioned two former pastors and a former priest who left Christianity after extensive theological study. Hopefully, that's a tad more compelling than my singular story.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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10/27/2014 4:34:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
w far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

Where did you see the name jesus in that and what makes you think anything like that ever eventuated?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/27/2014 4:36:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
w far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

And where is your verification that any of that happened?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:37:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:20:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His birth: Isaiah 7

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]

His Life:
Isaiah 53:3New International Version (NIV)

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
His betrayal:
Zechariah 11:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter""the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

His treatment:
Isaiah 50:6New International Version (NIV)

6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
His death:
Zechariah 13

Zechariah 12:10New International Version (NIV)

Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

His resurrection:
Psalm 49:15New International Version (NIV)

15 But God will redeem me from the realm of the dead;
he will surely take me to himself.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/27/2014 4:43:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:37:13 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:20:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His birth: Isaiah 7

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]

His Life:
Isaiah 53:3New International Version (NIV)

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
His betrayal:
Zechariah 11:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter""the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

His treatment:
Isaiah 50:6New International Version (NIV)

6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
His death:
Zechariah 13

Zechariah 12:10New International Version (NIV)

Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

His resurrection:
Psalm 49:15New International Version (NIV)

15 But God will redeem me from the realm of the dead;
he will surely take me to himself.

Let me ask you again; from where do you get the belief that any of that happened? I can see the prophecy. From what credible source can we find the confirmation that it actually happened?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:44:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:34:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
w far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

Where did you see the name jesus in that and what makes you think anything like that ever eventuated?

Annnddd as usual I ask myself why I engage in a conversation with people who refuse to acknowledge anything that is presented that goes against their agenda. The name isn't the point, the prophecy of His coming is.

It's ok really, I'm not trying to sell you anything, I'm just answering questions. And this a
Applies to beast as well. It wouldn't matter what's presented, it can't be a real discussion without real attempt at critical thinking which you have no intentions of doing. So..
As awesome as you guys are, this isn't my cup of tea.. Or coffee as I prefer. Frap cold blended.
MsIndependent
Posts: 383
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10/27/2014 4:52:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:43:06 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:37:13 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:20:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 3:50:44 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
Do you know how far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His birth: Isaiah 7

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]

His Life:
Isaiah 53:3New International Version (NIV)

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
His betrayal:
Zechariah 11:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter""the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

His treatment:
Isaiah 50:6New International Version (NIV)

6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
His death:
Zechariah 13

Zechariah 12:10New International Version (NIV)

Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

His resurrection:
Psalm 49:15New International Version (NIV)

15 But God will redeem me from the realm of the dead;
he will surely take me to himself.

Let me ask you again; from where do you get the belief that any of that happened? I can see the prophecy. From what credible source can we find the confirmation that it actually happened?

Both of these people hated Jesus and Christi"nity, they wrote about Jesus-
In his book, The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders stated: "Most of the first-century literature that survives was written by members of the very small elite class of the Roman Empire. To them, Jesus (if they heard of him at all) was merely a troublesome rabble-rouser and magician in a small, backward part of the world" (1993, p. 49, parenthetical comment in orig.). It is now to this "small elite class of the Roman Empire" that we turn our attention for documentation of Christ"s existence.

Tacitus (c. A.D. 56-117) should be among the first of several hostile witnesses called to the stand. He was a member of the Roman provincial upper class with a formal education who held several high positions under different emperors such as Nerva and Trajan (see Tacitus, 1952, p. 7). His famous work, Annals, was a history of Rome written in approximately A.D. 115. In the Annals he told of the Great Fire of Rome, which occurred in A.D. 64. Nero, the Roman emperor in office at the time, was suspected by many of having ordered the city set on fire. Tacitus wrote:

Nero fabricated scapegoats"and punished with every refinement the notoriously depraved Christians (as they were popularly called). Their originator, Christ, had been executed in Tiberius" reign by the governor of Judea, Pontius Pilatus. But in spite of this temporary setback the deadly superstition had broken out afresh, not only in Judea (where the mischief had started) but even in Rome (1952, 15.44, parenthetical comments in orig.).
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/27/2014 4:53:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:44:32 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:34:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/27/2014 4:30:10 AM, MsIndependent wrote:
w far apart the old and New Testament were written? How did the Old Testament know a man named Jesus would be vibe as a savior that many years later?
Provide evidence that jesus is mentioned in the OT.

His crucifixion:
Psalm 22:16-18New International Version (NIV)

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

Where did you see the name jesus in that and what makes you think anything like that ever eventuated?

Annnddd as usual I ask myself why I engage in a conversation with people who refuse to acknowledge anything that is presented that goes against their agenda. The name isn't the point, the prophecy of His coming is.

It's ok really, I'm not trying to sell you anything, I'm just answering questions. And this a
Applies to beast as well. It wouldn't matter what's presented, it can't be a real discussion without real attempt at critical thinking which you have no intentions of doing. So..
As awesome as you guys are, this isn't my cup of tea.. Or coffee as I prefer. Frap cold blended.

So you're not even curious to see the evidence that what you think happened, didn't? I assure you, the case is quite strong. Even to someone who doesn't want to admit that it's a strong case, it should at least be interesting. Consider for a moment, that it's possible that there are people - even atheists - who have studied this more than you have... or even just from other angles.

So would you like to see how the gospels were written? Because you really don't have anything else. There are no historical records to even suggest that any of what was predicted, actually occurred.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire