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Are there any other Buddhists out there?

Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/15/2015 3:34:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2014 4:02:03 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I never see any of you in the Forum.

The world is undergoing "the downswing". Where the Dhamma taught by the Buddha will be lost and completely forgotten. Upon which the next Buddha will appear in the world, but that wont be for many millenia I don't think, but the downswing has begun.

I am a Buddhist. A bit of a purist one at that too.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/16/2015 1:06:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would consider Buddha a prophet, and can testify to the truth of his dharma.

I also am of the opinion that the Buddhist world has consistently put out a wealth of high quality material that testifies to the effectiveness of the method.

Buddhist method is very complimentary to Christian theology. It is evident to me that they come from the same source. As Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". The noble eightfold path describes the method of purifying one's heart.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/16/2015 1:53:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/16/2015 1:06:36 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Buddhist method is very complimentary to Christian theology. It is evident to me that they come from the same source. As Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". The noble eightfold path describes the method of purifying one's heart.


I used to think the same thing until I came to a sutta which addresses this very subject, cause it was a topic of debate even at the Buddhas time, whether the Dhamma was or not an equal or complimentary doctrine to another just explained differently, the name of the sutta is the Discourse on the Lions Roar. Just as the roar of the lion is his expression of supremacy over all the other lesser animals whose cries, shrieks, howls, bellows, barks, and growls are silenced by it; so is the Buddha and his Dhamma among all other views and doctrines.

No other teaching shows the way to true Worthiness, freedom from all bonds and purity from all taints.

Even God exhibits anger, regret, and jealousy in the Bible. Jesus has a couple emotional episodes himself in the New Testament.

Now the Buddha, whose career showed only purity and freedom (after enlightenment that is), is passed into pari-nibbana, and gone from us. His Dhamma remains, unsurpassed, unexcelled, and without equal. Unique. Chief amongst the world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org...
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/16/2015 2:39:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition and trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism.
I have mentioned on many religious forums the disproportionately small representations of Eastern esotericism (Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, I Ching of China). You can only imagine the joy I am experiencing knowing there are Buddhists in our midst.
Welcome to you all. Namaste
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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9/16/2015 7:41:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 2:39:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition and trained in the reading of esoteric scriptures, Christian Theology and Islamic fundamentalism.
I have mentioned on many religious forums the disproportionately small representations of Eastern esotericism (Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, I Ching of China). You can only imagine the joy I am experiencing knowing there are Buddhists in our midst.
Welcome to you all. Namaste

I am in the process of studying Buddhism. The thing that attracts me is the personal responsibility it requires. None of the "the devil made me do it but Jesus / God forgives me" (a la Josh Duggar and Kim Davis' 4 marriages and 2 out of wedlock kids).
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/16/2015 8:09:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 1:53:50 PM, Sravaka wrote:
Just as the roar of the lion is his expression of supremacy over all the other lesser animals whose cries, shrieks, howls, bellows, barks, and growls are silenced by it; so is the Buddha and his Dhamma among all other views and doctrines.

No other teaching shows the way to true Worthiness, freedom from all bonds and purity from all taints.
This quote illustrates why anyone who thinks Buddhism isn't a religion, is wrong.

At 9/15/2015 3:34:23 PM, Sravaka wrote:
The world is undergoing "the downswing". Where the Dhamma taught by the Buddha will be lost and completely forgotten. Upon which the next Buddha will appear in the world, but that wont be for many millenia I don't think, but the downswing has begun.
And this one is why, antitheistically, I also oppose Buddhist superstition, even though technically it has sages and prophets but not gods.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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9/17/2015 11:47:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 8:09:20 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 9/16/2015 1:53:50 PM, Sravaka wrote:
Just as the roar of the lion is his expression of supremacy over all the other lesser animals whose cries, shrieks, howls, bellows, barks, and growls are silenced by it; so is the Buddha and his Dhamma among all other views and doctrines.

No other teaching shows the way to true Worthiness, freedom from all bonds and purity from all taints.
This quote illustrates why anyone who thinks Buddhism isn't a religion, is wrong.

That sounds a lot more like a philosophical point than a religious one. Worthiness extends to being free from suffering, which as I recall is related to desire and the physical trappings of Earth.

At 9/15/2015 3:34:23 PM, Sravaka wrote:
The world is undergoing "the downswing". Where the Dhamma taught by the Buddha will be lost and completely forgotten. Upon which the next Buddha will appear in the world, but that wont be for many millenia I don't think, but the downswing has begun.
And this one is why, antitheistically, I also oppose Buddhist superstition, even though technically it has sages and prophets but not gods.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/17/2015 1:29:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/17/2015 11:47:31 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
...Worthiness extends to being free from suffering, which as I recall is related to desire and the physical trappings of Earth.


You're on the right track. Not desire persay but attachment to desire. In other words, craving and clinging. For instance the Buddha had 'desires', during rainy seasons he liked to be alone in meditation. At certain moments he felt like giving a sermon. But he didn't crave or cling (thirst).

There's one story of an Arahant (a disciple who has reached Nibbana, the final goal) who was walking and came across a mud puddle and started joyfully hopping up and down in it. A monk asked the Buddha "why is he doing that?" the Buddha explained in a previous life he was a frog, and in that life in the mud found contentment beyond its senses, a happiness which made it able to escape the animal realm when it died, allowing it rebirth as a human. And now as a human he has rooted out the last of his craving conditioned by ignorance (this was foreshadowed in his previous liberation from the animal realm) so when he came across the mud puddle, it was merely a joyful ironic coincidence (reminiscent of how he earned liberation thanks to good kamma generated by freedom from attachment in previous lives, which finally started to come to fruition when it managed to be born as a human, and the fruition completed when he earned supreme liberation in that human life), so he stared joyfully hopping in it for a minute and then they went on their way walking.

It's a cute story really!

So enlightened beings have sorts of desire, but they aren't attached, and rooted in craving or clinging. He wouldn't go looking for that mud puddle if he didn't have it, and even upon having it doesn't feel sorrow if its taken away.

Understand? :)
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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9/17/2015 1:43:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 1:29:36 PM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/17/2015 11:47:31 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
...Worthiness extends to being free from suffering, which as I recall is related to desire and the physical trappings of Earth.


You're on the right track. Not desire persay but attachment to desire. In other words, craving and clinging. For instance the Buddha had 'desires', during rainy seasons he liked to be alone in meditation. At certain moments he felt like giving a sermon. But he didn't crave or cling (thirst).

There's one story of an Arahant (a disciple who has reached Nibbana, the final goal) who was walking and came across a mud puddle and started joyfully hopping up and down in it. A monk asked the Buddha "why is he doing that?" the Buddha explained in a previous life he was a frog, and in that life in the mud found contentment beyond its senses, a happiness which made it able to escape the animal realm when it died, allowing it rebirth as a human. And now as a human he has rooted out the last of his craving conditioned by ignorance (this was foreshadowed in his previous liberation from the animal realm) so when he came across the mud puddle, it was merely a joyful ironic coincidence (reminiscent of how he earned liberation thanks to good kamma generated by freedom from attachment in previous lives, which finally started to come to fruition when it managed to be born as a human, and the fruition completed when he earned supreme liberation in that human life), so he stared joyfully hopping in it for a minute and then they went on their way walking.

It's a cute story really!

So enlightened beings have sorts of desire, but they aren't attached, and rooted in craving or clinging. He wouldn't go looking for that mud puddle if he didn't have it, and even upon having it doesn't feel sorrow if its taken away.

Understand? :)

Isn't the essence of "The Middle Path" not to go to extremes on either side; self denial or gluttony / greed, etc.?
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/17/2015 1:46:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/16/2015 7:41:45 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I am in the process of studying Buddhism. The thing that attracts me is the personal responsibility it requires. None of the "the devil made me do it but Jesus / God forgives me" (a la Josh Duggar and Kim Davis' 4 marriages and 2 out of wedlock kids).

Very good. I highly recommend this as a primary source for authentic buddhist teachings:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org...

Because it is strictly derived from the Pali Canon, which historically is the only record of Buddhist teachings which outdates all the traditions, meaning its the closest thing we got to being what the Buddha actually said.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/17/2015 1:57:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 1:43:31 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
Isn't the essence of "The Middle Path" not to go to extremes on either side; self denial or gluttony / greed, etc.?

I'll let the Buddha answer that.

"Monks, these two extremes ought not to be practiced by one who has gone forth from the household life. (What are the two?) There is addiction to indulgence of sense-pleasures, which is low, coarse, the way of ordinary people, unworthy, and unprofitable; and there is addiction to self-mortification, which is painful, unworthy, and unprofitable.

"Avoiding both these extremes, the Tathagata (The Perfect One)[1] has realized the Middle Path; it gives vision, gives knowledge, and leads to calm, to insight, to enlightenment and to Nibbana. And what is that Middle Path realized by the Tathagata...? It is the Noble Eightfold path, and nothing else, namely: right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration. This is the Middle Path realized by the Tathagata which gives vision, which gives knowledge, and leads to calm, to insight, to enlightenment, and to Nibbana.


The whole sutta is here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org...
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/17/2015 5:14:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 1:53:50 PM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/16/2015 1:06:36 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Buddhist method is very complimentary to Christian theology. It is evident to me that they come from the same source. As Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". The noble eightfold path describes the method of purifying one's heart.


I used to think the same thing until I came to a sutta which addresses this very subject, cause it was a topic of debate even at the Buddhas time, whether the Dhamma was or not an equal or complimentary doctrine to another just explained differently, the name of the sutta is the Discourse on the Lions Roar. Just as the roar of the lion is his expression of supremacy over all the other lesser animals whose cries, shrieks, howls, bellows, barks, and growls are silenced by it; so is the Buddha and his Dhamma among all other views and doctrines.

No other teaching shows the way to true Worthiness, freedom from all bonds and purity from all taints.

Even God exhibits anger, regret, and jealousy in the Bible. Jesus has a couple emotional episodes himself in the New Testament.

Now the Buddha, whose career showed only purity and freedom (after enlightenment that is), is passed into pari-nibbana, and gone from us. His Dhamma remains, unsurpassed, unexcelled, and without equal. Unique. Chief amongst the world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org...

According to my understanding of theology, Buddhism and Christianity teach the same method of alleviating suffering. The differences are entirely cultural, semantic, and in how these ideas are expressed.

Salvation comes from loving and accepting God, which represents the Ultimate or Supreme Reality. The eightfold path describes a method of surrendering to God's will and purifying the heart.

It's easy to get trapped in the personification of diety, but God is not human. Christianity has to do with the relationship between man and God. The theology is a great deal more profound than most people realize, but it is hard for a lot of people to get past the surface. It isn't about the idolatry of man. Jesus represents the very real phenomina of God's salvation, which is to say, "The Truth will set you free". The Buddha preached the same message, "The Truth will set you free".
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/17/2015 6:37:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/17/2015 5:14:38 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
According to my understanding of theology, Buddhism and Christianity teach the same method of alleviating suffering. The differences are entirely cultural, semantic, and in how these ideas are expressed.

Salvation comes from loving and accepting God, which represents the Ultimate or Supreme Reality. The eightfold path describes a method of surrendering to God's will and purifying the heart.

It's easy to get trapped in the personification of diety, but God is not human. Christianity has to do with the relationship between man and God. The theology is a great deal more profound than most people realize, but it is hard for a lot of people to get past the surface. It isn't about the idolatry of man. Jesus represents the very real phenomina of God's salvation, which is to say, "The Truth will set you free". The Buddha preached the same message, "The Truth will set you free".


God and Jesus are not free, that is exhibited quite clearly from their behavior in the Bible, so how could they teach something they don't know themselves? Jesus lost his cool in a church overthrowing tables, and broke-down when his Crucifixion was immanent "Please let this cup pass from me, father why have you foresaken me". In Genesis God felt remorse in his heart for creating man. Flooded the world. Committed deeds that resulted in death in large populations at a time.

They are far from Nibbana.

Also in theology there are notions of spirit and soul, the Buddha strictly repudiated these notions with his teaching of "anatta", all phenomena, everything, is without a self. To believe there is a true self, or a true God, or that there isn't one for that matter- are all wrong views which the Buddha said only lead to suffering. There is no "will" to surrender to.

Eternal-ism, nihilism, metaphysics, spirit, soul; were all things the Buddha strictly repudiated against in doctrine, not by connotation but in direct denotation.

Now I respect your view, I truly do, please don't get me wrong, but what you speak of is not Dhamma and I can't let that go attributed to the Buddha unchallenged.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/17/2015 7:16:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 6:37:08 PM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/17/2015 5:14:38 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
According to my understanding of theology, Buddhism and Christianity teach the same method of alleviating suffering. The differences are entirely cultural, semantic, and in how these ideas are expressed.

Salvation comes from loving and accepting God, which represents the Ultimate or Supreme Reality. The eightfold path describes a method of surrendering to God's will and purifying the heart.

It's easy to get trapped in the personification of diety, but God is not human. Christianity has to do with the relationship between man and God. The theology is a great deal more profound than most people realize, but it is hard for a lot of people to get past the surface. It isn't about the idolatry of man. Jesus represents the very real phenomina of God's salvation, which is to say, "The Truth will set you free". The Buddha preached the same message, "The Truth will set you free".


God and Jesus are not free, that is exhibited quite clearly from their behavior in the Bible, so how could they teach something they don't know themselves? Jesus lost his cool in a church overthrowing tables, and broke-down when his Crucifixion was immanent "Please let this cup pass from me, father why have you foresaken me". In Genesis God felt remorse in his heart for creating man. Flooded the world. Committed deeds that resulted in death in large populations at a time.

They are far from Nibbana.

Also in theology there are notions of spirit and soul, the Buddha strictly repudiated these notions with his teaching of "anatta", all phenomena, everything, is without a self. To believe there is a true self, or a true God, or that there isn't one for that matter- are all wrong views which the Buddha said only lead to suffering. There is no "will" to surrender to.

Eternal-ism, nihilism, metaphysics, spirit, soul; were all things the Buddha strictly repudiated against in doctrine, not by connotation but in direct denotation.

Now I respect your view, I truly do, please don't get me wrong, but what you speak of is not Dhamma and I can't let that go attributed to the Buddha unchallenged.

As I said, these are misunderstandings.

Firstly, you don't understand what it means to accept God's will. God's will is done whether anyone likes it or not. God's will is law, this is what happens. To accept God's will is to accept the truth of the matter, not to follow a set of rules or doctrines.

To understand the self is to understand the relationship between experience and reality, and the part it plays in creation.

The things that Buddha repudiated specifically had to do with the common understanding people had of theological concepts within the culture that he lived in. Very much like how today an atheist will repudiate false understandings of the concept of God, though these repudiations have little to do with what the concept actually represents. The Buddha clarified a great deal in vedic based religion.

It really is a matter of semantic confusion that is perpetuated by the fact that a great many self identified Christians do not have a very good understanding of theology to begin with.

If you are willing to quote for me a Buddhist scripture that illustrates your point, I will do my best to show how it doesn't truly conflict with Christian theology.

That said, I would also like to point out that if you understand Buddhist and Christian theology, you aren't going to make an idol out of scripture to begin with. Both methods lead to God realization, which brings forth a peace that surpasses all understanding and a deep insight into the nature of all things. Buddhists and Christians use different terminology, but describe the same processes. Christian theology is more confusing, and this has a great deal to do with the time period and environment that gave rise to it.

Behind all on the exterior, the Christian faith is fundamentally very simple. The Gospel is one that abolishes all principalities and dominions. It is one that abolishes idolatries. It is one that sheds light into how the human being relates to reality, and the insights that are revealed truly are universal. Jesus is not just the fulfillment of Judaic prophesy, but the fulfillment of scripture universally. Buddha himself testifies of Jesus, indeed, "God Saves" is pervasive throughout all of Buddha's teachings.

The Truth shall set you free, and this is the essence of both Buddhist and Christian teachings.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Sravaka
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9/17/2015 7:24:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/17/2015 7:16:41 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
As I said, these are misunderstandings.


Ok, I'm open to that. So then to make this a productive conversation then I need you to clarify what you mean by "God".
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
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9/17/2015 7:48:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:24:31 PM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/17/2015 7:16:41 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
As I said, these are misunderstandings.


Ok, I'm open to that. So then to make this a productive conversation then I need you to clarify what you mean by "God".

The Ultimate or Supreme Reality. Truth independent of any bias, The way things are.

This is the theological understanding of the concept. God has a multitude of names, and they all are wonderful names, but the holiest of names is beyond abstraction, it cannot be expressed with words. Words are created things, and how do you express what is uncreated with creation? It isn't possible to capture this essence, it is like trying to communicate a piece of music using the English language.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Sravaka
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9/18/2015 7:57:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/17/2015 7:48:12 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The Ultimate or Supreme Reality.

That is metaphysics and has nothing to do with the eightfold path, what is it the Buddha said that makes you say otherwise?
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
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9/18/2015 5:00:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 7:57:07 AM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/17/2015 7:48:12 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The Ultimate or Supreme Reality.

That is metaphysics and has nothing to do with the eightfold path, what is it the Buddha said that makes you say otherwise?

Every single point of the eightfold path starts with "right" or "correct". God is righteous.

As Jesus said, "blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". The Eightfold path is a method of purifying the heart. The result of this is God realization. Purifying the heart is an integral part of the way of Christ.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Sravaka
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9/21/2015 3:28:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
: At 9/18/2015 5:00:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Every single point of the eightfold path starts with "right" or "correct". God is righteous.


Umm... no... God is not righteous. I've already stated why not. The noble-eightfold path surpasses Christ /God.

In order to refute this statement you need to address where Christ /God exhibit impure behavior and argue why they are not impure:

Genisis 6:6 God feels remorse
Exodus 34:14 God feels jealousy
Kings 11:9 God feels anger

Matthew 21:12 Christ feels anger
Luke 22:42 Christ feels fear
Matthew 27:46 Christ feels despair

It is impossible for one who has reached the goal of Nibbana, the fulfillment of the path, to feel the things exhibited in the bible by so called god/christ.
I have provided doctrinal sources that show your speculation is invalid.

The word is 'samma' in pali, which is the beginning of each of the eight factors. The doctrinal sources I have provided make it clear that so called God/Christ is not on par of the same righteousness and purity as 'samma' in the eightfold path.

Again, I'll re-iterate, the Dhamma is without equal and unexcelled.

Please address my point directly, lest your speculation continues as mere speculation.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
UniversalTheologian
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9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 3:28:50 PM, Sravaka wrote:
: At 9/18/2015 5:00:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Every single point of the eightfold path starts with "right" or "correct". God is righteous.



Umm... no... God is not righteous. I've already stated why not. The noble-eightfold path surpasses Christ /God.

In order to refute this statement you need to address where Christ /God exhibit impure behavior and argue why they are not impure:

Genisis 6:6 God feels remorse
Exodus 34:14 God feels jealousy
Kings 11:9 God feels anger

Matthew 21:12 Christ feels anger
Luke 22:42 Christ feels fear
Matthew 27:46 Christ feels despair

It is impossible for one who has reached the goal of Nibbana, the fulfillment of the path, to feel the things exhibited in the bible by so called god/christ.
I have provided doctrinal sources that show your speculation is invalid.

The word is 'samma' in pali, which is the beginning of each of the eight factors. The doctrinal sources I have provided make it clear that so called God/Christ is not on par of the same righteousness and purity as 'samma' in the eightfold path.

Again, I'll re-iterate, the Dhamma is without equal and unexcelled.

Please address my point directly, lest your speculation continues as mere speculation.

The misunderstanding you are having seems more to do with not understanding the point of scripture than anything.

Personification of deity is also a very difficult leap for people to get over, but God is not human.

Scripture documents a relationship, and it is through this relationship that God's Judgement and Mercy is revealed. It is the prophets who remind us that The God who we worship is The Truth, Reality as it Is. Focusing on God is a self correcting way of operating that eventually leads to enlightenment.

Christianity is an agnostic faith, and it is through this understanding that it is understood that in order to love God, forgiveness triumphs over condemnation or tolerance. Purifying oneself in order to reach highest wisdom is an integral part of those who claim to follow Christ. All are forgiven, but a Christ follower is one who surrenders to God. The path of a Christ follower is like that of the Bodhisattva.

They take different forms, they have different ways of communicating things, but they ultimately lead to the same narrow gate, and the same straight path. The ultimate realization is the same. The end of all wisdom, God realization, and enlightenment.

It's easy to get hung up on semantics, when you really get deep into the theology, they are very complimentary.

This is my viewpoint on the matter, and I'm confident in it. It isn't important to me that you agree. If you put into practice the teachings of the Buddha with right intention, you will be on a straight path to figuring it out. Meditate brings wisdom. Do this, and you will be fine. I'm fairly confident of this.

Debating theology ultimately isn't worthwhile. The Truth is what matters. As the old zen saying goes, "IF you find the Buddha on your path, Kill him!"

The Truth is adorned in a multitude of ways, but The Emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
NicholasWeeks
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9/22/2015 6:45:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As Sravaka put it " the Dhamma is without equal and unexcelled."

Judging by the fruits of Buddhist cultivation, virtually any bodhisattva or arhat, in wisdom and altruistic activity bypasses by far any saint or bishop.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/22/2015 6:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:45:01 PM, NicholasWeeks wrote:
As Sravaka put it " the Dhamma is without equal and unexcelled."

Judging by the fruits of Buddhist cultivation, virtually any bodhisattva or arhat, in wisdom and altruistic activity bypasses by far any saint or bishop.

A rose by any other name would be just as beautiful.

Sincerity of faith, a love for Highest Truth and Reality above all things, forgiveness and charity towards others.. This is the way that is universally testified of.

The revelation of Jesus Christ is one that is testified of and prophesied universally in scripture. Buddha being no different. They describe the same path.

Corruption of The Message is inevitable. Even Buddhists build temples around the toenails of their prophet. Buddha was among the prophets, and clearly so, though it wouldn't be described this way in Buddhist thought.

Certainly, the Buddha's teachings were pure, but as the Chinese Buddhists figured out, there comes a time when you have to realize, if you find the Buddha on your path, kill him!

Meditation is what brings wisdom.

As the Buddha has been quoted as saying...

""=Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

The Message of the Buddha is not unique to Buddha, otherwise it would not be True. The Truth is there independent of creation. If all scriptures and teachings of the great masters were lost, their message would eventually rise again. It is a Universal message, and it is testified of in scripture all over the world going back to the earliest records of history.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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9/22/2015 7:00:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2014 4:02:03 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I never see any of you in the Forum.

Warm greetings.

I myself am not a Buddhist but have deep appreciation for many of the fruits of Buddhist tradition.

Which specific denomination do you belong to?

Glad you dropped by. Look forward to reading more from you.

Take care.
Sravaka
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9/22/2015 7:47:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The misunderstanding you are having seems more to do with not understanding the point of scripture than anything.

The point of scripture?
The point of a doctrine correlates to the intention of the propagators of said doctrine. Doctrine has no universal point, the only point a doctrine has depends on the intentions of those who served to establish it in the world and then propagate. Christianity established itself with blood and fire. Now is that Christs fault? No I don't think so....

...but he was cryptic and esoteric:
(Matthew 13:11.) "He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

As opposed to the Buddha who was much fairer in all meanings of the word....
(AN 3:129; I 282-83) "These three things, monks, are conducted in secret, not openly. What three? Affairs with women, the mantras of the brahmins, and wrong view..
"But these three things, monks, shine openly, not in secret. What three? The moon, the sun, and the Dhamma and Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Personification of deity is also a very difficult leap for people to get over, but God is not human.

A deity is not human by it's very definition, I agree. But if God is then God is not ultimately free from samsara. If God can send a message with a messenger "Christ" then he is not ultimately free from samara, why? Because he IS....
(Corinthians 8:76) "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

But the Buddha was a teacher of both dieties and men the way to complete freedom prescribed not by any other teaching, again the Buddha proves his uniqueness and superiority...
(Dhp 126) "Some are born in the human womb, evildoers in hell, those on the good course go to heaven, but those without effluent: totally unbound"

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Christianity is an agnostic faith, and it is through this understanding...

"agnostic" and "understanding" are antonyms

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
They take different forms, they have different ways of communicating things, but they ultimately lead to the same narrow gate, and the same straight path. The ultimate realization is the same. The end of all wisdom, God realization, and enlightenment.

One word, Anatta. Show me any doctrine that isn't Buddhist which teaches this truth.

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The path of a Christ follower is like that of the Bodhisattva.

Yes in that they're both inferior to the eightfold path. The Bodhisattva ideal was invented by sectarian monastics many centuries after the original teachings of the Pali Canon and can't be attributed to the Buddha nor his Dhamma.

Your view is very nice, and is very similar to the one I had when I was a perennialist. But it is not founded on an understanding of Dhamma.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
Sravaka
Posts: 23
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9/22/2015 8:13:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:57:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The Message of the Buddha is not unique to Buddha

This was well explained by the Buddha, I agree. He described it as rediscovering an ancient city. And yes it keeps getting re-discovered when forgotten, and the one who rediscovers it and makes it known is what defines a Buddha. This is called the turning of the wheel of Dhamma.

Am I open to Jesus, Krishna, Brahma, Mohammad as being deities in very high heavens, and those who follows their ways reach unimaginable states of consciousness, love, and awareness ? Sure! Why not?!

But it's inferior to complete extinguishment without remainder (Nibbana).

Your view, universal-theologian, I agree shows cohesion between Brahmanism, Ancient Egyptian, Hermetic Alchemy, Gnosticism, and the list can go on and on, but that's about it.
"The three kinds of feelings, O monks, are impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation " namely, pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling."
NicholasWeeks
Posts: 24
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9/22/2015 9:24:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
UT: Your paraphrase of the Kalama Sutta conveniently misses a key phrase.

When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' " then you should abandon them.

Find Bhikkhu Bodhi's commentary saying that simple self reliance is not what Buddha taught. Many factors weave an interdependent net.

Also Buddha was teaching the Kalamas who were not his followers - not Buddhists.

Sravaka: See Ledi Sayadaw's Manual of the Excellent Man where the bodhisattva path is outlined. Mahayana did not invent bodhisattvas.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/23/2015 1:43:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:47:54 PM, Sravaka wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The misunderstanding you are having seems more to do with not understanding the point of scripture than anything.

The point of scripture?
The point of a doctrine correlates to the intention of the propagators of said doctrine. Doctrine has no universal point, the only point a doctrine has depends on the intentions of those who served to establish it in the world and then propagate. Christianity established itself with blood and fire. Now is that Christs fault? No I don't think so....

...but he was cryptic and esoteric:
(Matthew 13:11.) "He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

As opposed to the Buddha who was much fairer in all meanings of the word....
(AN 3:129; I 282-83) "These three things, monks, are conducted in secret, not openly. What three? Affairs with women, the mantras of the brahmins, and wrong view..
"But these three things, monks, shine openly, not in secret. What three? The moon, the sun, and the Dhamma and Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Personification of deity is also a very difficult leap for people to get over, but God is not human.

A deity is not human by it's very definition, I agree. But if God is then God is not ultimately free from samsara. If God can send a message with a messenger "Christ" then he is not ultimately free from samara, why? Because he IS....
(Corinthians 8:76) "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

But the Buddha was a teacher of both dieties and men the way to complete freedom prescribed not by any other teaching, again the Buddha proves his uniqueness and superiority...
(Dhp 126) "Some are born in the human womb, evildoers in hell, those on the good course go to heaven, but those without effluent: totally unbound"


At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Christianity is an agnostic faith, and it is through this understanding...

"agnostic" and "understanding" are antonyms

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
They take different forms, they have different ways of communicating things, but they ultimately lead to the same narrow gate, and the same straight path. The ultimate realization is the same. The end of all wisdom, God realization, and enlightenment.

One word, Anatta. Show me any doctrine that isn't Buddhist which teaches this truth.

At 9/22/2015 6:26:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The path of a Christ follower is like that of the Bodhisattva.

Yes in that they're both inferior to the eightfold path. The Bodhisattva ideal was invented by sectarian monastics many centuries after the original teachings of the Pali Canon and can't be attributed to the Buddha nor his Dhamma.


Your view is very nice, and is very similar to the one I had when I was a perennialist. But it is not founded on an understanding of Dhamma.

Christianity is a mystery faith, and the reason why it took this form had a great deal to do with the environment that it rose up in.

I am telling you that Christian and Buddhist schools are perfectly valid ways of achieving realization. I am also telling you, as a Christian theologian, the meanings of scriptures. I am doing this plainly in a manner that is lucid and with little mystery. I say that having an understanding of the nature of one's ignorance along with a single minded devotion to Truth and Highest Reality is where Christian theology stems from.

Now lets not kid ourselves. He who defines himself can not possibly know who they are. These schools? They are all clothing that the emperor wears. If you find the Buddha on your path kill him, as you would do to Christ, who is not a man, but the personification of God's Salvation here on Earth.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer