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Muhammad in a bear suit.

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/21/2010 3:28:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So, apparently the creators of South Park depicted the prophet Mohammad in a bear suit (he looked adorable by the way), and now there are actually people in the U.S. who want them dead. If this series of events demonstrate anything, they demonstrate that the second commandment (though shalt bear no graven images) is truly one of Allah's great gifts to the world. Just imagine where we might be without it! Allah and his prophet (peace be upon him) are truly merciful and wise.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/21/2010 3:29:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yes, they are merciful and wise.

What do a few people who threaten others have to do with God and His Prophet? Nothing. It is not for us to do anything to a person who depicts the beloved Prophet in such a manner.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/21/2010 3:58:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 3:29:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
Yes, they are merciful and wise.

What do a few people who threaten others have to do with God and His Prophet? Nothing. It is not for us to do anything to a person who depicts the beloved Prophet in such a manner.

Well... It is quite easy to draw a link between certain ways of interpreting the Qur'an and acts of violence. It's not like every religion has people like this. There are, after all, no Jain or Amish suicide bombers.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/21/2010 4:02:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 3:58:56 PM, Freeman wrote:
Well... It is quite easy to draw a link between certain ways of interpreting the Qur'an and acts of violence. It's not like every religion has people like this. There are, after all, no Jain or Amish suicide bombers.
Because they are very few in numbers and very few care about them. They have no land of their own that is being invaded and whatnot.

If you want to connect the Qur'an to Muslims in terms of violence, then look at the majority, and people like me. I do not call for violence. I condemn even wounding an innocent person, then think about my stance on 9/11, no matter who did it.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/21/2010 4:13:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 4:02:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/21/2010 3:58:56 PM, Freeman wrote:
Well... It is quite easy to draw a link between certain ways of interpreting the Qur'an and acts of violence. It's not like every religion has people like this. There are, after all, no Jain or Amish suicide bombers.
Because they are very few in numbers and very few care about them. They have no land of their own that is being invaded and whatnot.

Tibetan Buddhists have suffered under an occupation from the Chinese far worse than anything Muslims in Afghanistan or the West Bank have endured. And yet, virtually none of them have called for the deaths of cartoonists or threatened violence against Chinese forces.

If you want to connect the Qur'an to Muslims in terms of violence, then look at the majority, and people like me. I do not call for violence.

I'm well aware of people with your mindset, and I understand that the majority of Muslims are peaceful people that do not call for violence. However, this fact alone does dissolve the link between certain Islamic beliefs and the violence they can inspire.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 4:29:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I almost think that we should set aside a mock Islam day in reaction.

Sorry to the sites Muslim population.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 5:28:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 4:13:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
Tibetan Buddhists have suffered under an occupation from the Chinese far worse than anything Muslims in Afghanistan or the West Bank have endured. And yet, virtually none of them have called for the deaths of cartoonists or threatened violence against Chinese forces.
There's a history of violence from Buddhists. And I disagree, what Muslims in the world suffer from, such as those in Iraq, is not to be underestimated at all.

Even today Buddhists do bad things. You just don't hear about it.

I'm well aware of people with your mindset, and I understand that the majority of Muslims are peaceful people that do not call for violence. However, this fact alone does dissolve the link between certain Islamic beliefs and the violence they can inspire.
It is important to keep in mind that there is absolutely no belief that a group follows, whereof there is not one single member of that group who has done something wrong. People kill in the name of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. The majority do not. I do not see why a person would think that the Qur'an inspires him to kill anyone outside a defensive war. All those 'violent' verses have been explained. Furthermore, there is one thing people should also keep in mind: the Qur'an contains numerous verses speaking about love and peace, and if we look at those, they surely inspire our hearts more than those 'violent' verses, even though those verses are not calling for anything bad, but self-defense.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:06:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/21/2010 4:02:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
, then think about my stance on 9/11, no matter who did it.

You mean that evil imperialist G.Bush did it... such that he'd have an excuse for attacking innocent muslims, and take land in a place He doesn't belong??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:14:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
oh, wait, wait... hold up, now...

according to the quran... you should prolly be doing all you can to find and behead Bush... Right?

The Great Satan... is certainly an opposer, right??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:17:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:06:24 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
You mean that evil imperialist G.Bush did it... such that he'd have an excuse for attacking innocent muslims, and take land in a place He doesn't belong??
That is not what my statement indicated. I hold the view that George W. Bush planned it, and it is due to resources and showing off might. It may not be a direct attack on Muslims, but Islamic countries. Why do I believe in the conspiracy theory? Because it is 10 times more clear than the government theory, especially because that government lied so much about the entire case. Found black boxes, then they disappeared. Plane flew into Pentagon, but in most cases, you would have to never have seen a plane crash in order to believe that. No plane was shown. Absolutely not one single. If we drop a hydrogen bomb on Pentagon we would probably have some sort of footage that survived. It is nonsense that people believe in the government theory. World Trade Center 7 building was destructed in no time, yet there was absolutely nothing to make it do so, except those bombs planted by terrorists of the former government.

Yes, I am a believer in the conspiracy theory, and I am glad to know that there are people like me who will enlighten future generations for not believing in such worthless theories.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com...

It is a good picture.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:19:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:14:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
oh, wait, wait... hold up, now...

according to the quran... you should prolly be doing all you can to find and behead Bush... Right?

The Great Satan... is certainly an opposer, right??
No, let him live. He lives with shame. It is worse than to kill him. But if any army, such as the Israeli one, tries to attack one single civilian in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc., because they think Muslims there are as defenseless as those in Gaza, then we will see which side will raise the white flag.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:19:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:17:00 AM, Mirza wrote:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com...

It is a good picture.

That was a worthless picture.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:20:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:19:04 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/22/2010 6:14:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
oh, wait, wait... hold up, now...

according to the quran... you should prolly be doing all you can to find and behead Bush... Right?

The Great Satan... is certainly an opposer, right??
No, let him live.

doesn't the quran say to behead opposers?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:22:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What is this? How can people be fooled by this? That terroristic government did not mind invading two innocent countries, yet most people believed in George Bush when he spoke about it. What happened? The truth came to light. Why do people still believe in his theory about 9/11? Is history not educative?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:25:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:20:43 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
doesn't the quran say to behead opposers?
I've explaine dit over 10 times. If you havenøt understood yet, then I suggest you browse thorugh some of the threads.

And what if I said that it is alright to kill George Bush? Do you really think it is justified that he killed so many people? He is worse than Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden combined, yet you ask me about 'beheading' George Bush. It is worse for him to remain alive living in disgrace. His heart is burning, and people like him will pay for their actions in the very end. There's no need to kill him. But don't think that Islamic countries will stay defenseless in the future against such invasions.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:26:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:19:50 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
That was a worthless picture.
Why is it worthless? There was absolutely no trace of a plane after the incident. Moreover, the size of the plane is big enough to ruin much more than what was actually ruined.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/22/2010 6:30:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
the south park guys didnt show muhammad in a bear suit. That was santa pretending to be muhammad hidden from view in bear suit, muhammad remaid a censered black box with a ? in it. Then tom cruise go the goo from muhammad and became a black ? box as well. but then they said 'hey look Tom cruise has seamen on his back' and the box went away. Kyle explained why this happened but it too was censored.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:31:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
but doesn't the quran say he should be beheaded.

ok... now we're talkin hypotheticals.... but..

if you had him in a room, tied up... all to yourself... with a big butcher knife on the table....

would you a) follow the quran and behead him...
b) Say "It's better for him to live in shame than get beheaded, even though my infallible book says otherwise.
c) convince yourself that You aren't responsible for carrying out such required acts.. and that kind of stuff is only meant for an Islamic dictatorship to carry out.
d) Understand the quran as contradicting itself...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:33:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:31:00 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
but doesn't the quran say he should be beheaded.

ok... now we're talkin hypotheticals.... but..

if you had him in a room, tied up... all to yourself... with a big butcher knife on the table....

would you a) follow the quran and behead him...
b) Say "It's better for him to live in shame than get beheaded, even though my infallible book says otherwise.
c) convince yourself that You aren't responsible for carrying out such required acts.. and that kind of stuff is only meant for an Islamic dictatorship to carry out.
d) Understand the quran as contradicting itself...
This is absurd. This has no meaning whatsoever. I gave you a clear answer.

What would you do if Osama bin Laden was in a room, tied, and you had something (e.g. a flamethrower) to use against him, would you?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:35:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:33:54 AM, Mirza wrote:
What would you do if Osama bin Laden was in a room, tied, and you had something (e.g. a flamethrower) to use against him, would you use it?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:37:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Flamethrowers kinda harsh....

I'd prefer to string'em up, shoot'em, or throw'em off a cliff.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:39:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:33:54 AM, Mirza wrote:
This is absurd. This has no meaning whatsoever. I gave you a clear answer.

from what I understand the quran also gives clear instructions. which would be for choice (a)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:46:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
plus... I don't have a book which says I should.... I have my conscience which says that....

And in truth I'd rather hand him over to the CIA b/c then he'd prolly get bled dry for information...etc. AND I wouldn't want to carry out such things...

BUT I didn't see the Quran say that "the State" should do such things... it just says do it... and the best way for you to make sure that happens... is to do it yourself.. no?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/22/2010 6:48:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:33:54 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/22/2010 6:31:00 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
but doesn't the quran say he should be beheaded.

ok... now we're talkin hypotheticals.... but..

if you had him in a room, tied up... all to yourself... with a big butcher knife on the table....

would you a) follow the quran and behead him...
b) Say "It's better for him to live in shame than get beheaded, even though my infallible book says otherwise.
c) convince yourself that You aren't responsible for carrying out such required acts.. and that kind of stuff is only meant for an Islamic dictatorship to carry out.
d) Understand the quran as contradicting itself...
This is absurd. This has no meaning whatsoever. I gave you a clear answer.

What would you do if Osama bin Laden was in a room, tied, and you had something (e.g. a flamethrower) to use against him, would you?

I'd prefer to strangle him with my bare hands. The flamethrower is reserved for situations where he's not tied up. And I'd used that even if he wasn't in a room. Bad analogy since the point of the exercise was to get you to say no.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/22/2010 6:52:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
And also bad analogy because the reasons for killing bin Laden are secular and make a lick of sense.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/22/2010 6:52:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:48:14 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I'd prefer to strangle him with my bare hands.

yeah, for some reason I think that would be a lot less sickening to me than burning, or even shooting the guy.

I guess cuz i'm used to wrestling with people and whatnot... and that way it doesn't end in blood and guts...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:52:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:46:06 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
plus... I don't have a book which says I should.... I have my conscience which says that....

And in truth I'd rather hand him over to the CIA b/c then he'd prolly get bled dry for information...etc. AND I wouldn't want to carry out such things...

BUT I didn't see the Quran say that "the State" should do such things... it just says do it... and the best way for you to make sure that happens... is to do it yourself.. no?
No.

I would hand him over to authorities. Not only him, but whoever murders innocent people. I would not force anyone to do this to Bush, since it is not a simple thing to do, nor is he in an Islamic country.

As for where Shari'a Law applies, had it applied anywhere there wouldn't be a thing such as jizya to non-Muslims, etc. It applied after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) became a ruler. The word is Shari'a Law.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 6:53:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:48:14 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I'd prefer to strangle him with my bare hands. The flamethrower is reserved for situations where he's not tied up. And I'd used that even if he wasn't in a room. Bad analogy since the point of the exercise was to get you to say no.
Why is it a bad analogy? He asks me what I would do to Bush, and I ask what he would do to Osama bin Laden