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Mental illness or religious brainwash?

jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/29/2014 12:48:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. - Albert Einstein

So she must be a christain? tell her to change her religion becuase thats really doesnt make sense for people who have brain.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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10/29/2014 12:52:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:48:53 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. - Albert Einstein

So she must be a christain? tell her to change her religion becuase thats really doesnt make sense for people who have brain.

Religion doesn't make sense for people who have a brain. LOL.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/29/2014 12:54:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

While I'll admit to using the term "mental illness" in regard to religious beliefs, and I think that is sometimes the case, in this case I would consider it more of a contributing factor. Human reason knows a rather broad range from almost no reasoning capability, to rather dramatic levels of reasoning - often at the detriment of social functions and other forms of understanding. The sad thing is when people appear to be on the low end of the scale, and become indoctrinated to religion. Their low capacity for reason, along with a very common inability to challenge implied authority, tends to leave them convinced of things which simply defy all reason.

I think this could perhaps be classified as a minor (but fairly common) mental disorder, just as we can classify claustrophobia, agoraphobia, arachnophobia, fear of flying and several other common - but crippling - mental anomalies as "mental disorders". I also think it would be remiss to simply ignore that there is an obvious indoctrination factor. Many people are introduced to some of the basic tenets of their parent's religion while still so young and in their mental formative stages, that it becomes almost impossible for them to break free and allow reason to supersede superstition.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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10/29/2014 12:55:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:52:59 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:48:53 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. - Albert Einstein

So she must be a christain? tell her to change her religion becuase thats really doesnt make sense for people who have brain.

Religion doesn't make sense for people who have a brain. LOL.

Talking about the law of divorce in christanity. YOU CANT DIVORCE, if somebody made a mistake what he/she will suffer for that mistake?
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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10/29/2014 12:56:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

A very sad state of affairs. To paraphrase and hopefully not insult Neil Young "the religion and the damage done"
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 1:08:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:55:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:52:59 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:48:53 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. - Albert Einstein

So she must be a christain? tell her to change her religion becuase thats really doesnt make sense for people who have brain.

Religion doesn't make sense for people who have a brain. LOL.

Talking about the law of divorce in christanity. YOU CANT DIVORCE, if somebody made a mistake what he/she will suffer for that mistake?

Apparently you can if your spouse has committed adultery. In this case I think it is more about neglect. I've tried to argue it with her but there is no reasoning with someone who believes that they have to follow every word in its literal sense or burn in hell. Is there not an argument that will set her free?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 1:10:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:54:35 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

While I'll admit to using the term "mental illness" in regard to religious beliefs, and I think that is sometimes the case, in this case I would consider it more of a contributing factor. Human reason knows a rather broad range from almost no reasoning capability, to rather dramatic levels of reasoning - often at the detriment of social functions and other forms of understanding. The sad thing is when people appear to be on the low end of the scale, and become indoctrinated to religion. Their low capacity for reason, along with a very common inability to challenge implied authority, tends to leave them convinced of things which simply defy all reason.

I think this could perhaps be classified as a minor (but fairly common) mental disorder, just as we can classify claustrophobia, agoraphobia, arachnophobia, fear of flying and several other common - but crippling - mental anomalies as "mental disorders". I also think it would be remiss to simply ignore that there is an obvious indoctrination factor. Many people are introduced to some of the basic tenets of their parent's religion while still so young and in their mental formative stages, that it becomes almost impossible for them to break free and allow reason to supersede superstition.

So you believe that religion is acting as a catalyst for her disorder? In your opinion what will help her?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/29/2014 1:24:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:10:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:54:35 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

While I'll admit to using the term "mental illness" in regard to religious beliefs, and I think that is sometimes the case, in this case I would consider it more of a contributing factor. Human reason knows a rather broad range from almost no reasoning capability, to rather dramatic levels of reasoning - often at the detriment of social functions and other forms of understanding. The sad thing is when people appear to be on the low end of the scale, and become indoctrinated to religion. Their low capacity for reason, along with a very common inability to challenge implied authority, tends to leave them convinced of things which simply defy all reason.

I think this could perhaps be classified as a minor (but fairly common) mental disorder, just as we can classify claustrophobia, agoraphobia, arachnophobia, fear of flying and several other common - but crippling - mental anomalies as "mental disorders". I also think it would be remiss to simply ignore that there is an obvious indoctrination factor. Many people are introduced to some of the basic tenets of their parent's religion while still so young and in their mental formative stages, that it becomes almost impossible for them to break free and allow reason to supersede superstition.

So you believe that religion is acting as a catalyst for her disorder? In your opinion what will help her?

Yes... a "catalyst". (I'm feeling a bit verbose, now.)

Helping her at this stage is likely to be very tricky, and likely something best attempted by a professional. She will be holding to her religious beliefs as the last thread in her support rope, and simultaneously, allowing those beliefs to slowly coil the rope around her throat. If she can separate from her beliefs before they kill her, the resulting lost of emotional comfort might itself, lead her back toward suicide.

The best I can suggest is to be there for her and talk to her, even if she claims she doesn't want to talk. And one of the keys with anyone who is suicidal, is to understand that no one truly wants to die. They want to live but they need life to be more rewarding, or to offer promise of greater reward in the future. Even if they claim they don't want to talk about it, they usually do - especially if they've reached out. But it's not at all uncommon to find people who will reach out, and then retract the moment you try to reach back to them. And that's fine. The important thing is to make sure that they know you're going to be there whenever they need you, and to remember that they're wanting the world to be sad for their situation. If they receive too much of that sadness, it can actually push them toward killing themselves, fearing that if they don't take advantage of the world's apparent sadness, that the sadness will be revoked.

Talk to her. Test the waters in regard to her desire to even consider that her religious beliefs may be more restrictive to her than they really need to be. It's not the time to try to rip her beliefs from her, but perhaps a time to see if they can be "loosened" to some degree.

And while I have done some professional suicide counseling (very short-term), I'm afraid I'm not really qualified to offer that as any kind of professional opinion.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 1:36:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.

Does she have spending sprees...in a lot of debt(not necessarily).....

She probably recently experienced another manic episode.....came down from that high .....became severely depressed or was just not thinking incorrectly during the mania and attempted suicide.....A diagnosis like hers can sometimes start out with depression as the only reported symptom....symptoms of mania can often be overlooked and manic episodes can be overlooked as well....because they are mild

Normally the depression...probably the most severe and chronic of her symptoms.....is often reported first...because it is the most bothersome...

May I ask this please? Has she ever been suspected of having Schizophrenia.....or is Schizo Affective Disorder....She doesn't her voices regularly does she?......I don't think so....but I have to ask.....
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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10/29/2014 1:43:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

You ought to encourage her to get help from a professional psychiatrist. No unqualified forum people can assess anyone else correctly and even qualified people need to see patients face to face before they can assess them.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 1:43:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:24:43 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:10:31 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:54:35 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

While I'll admit to using the term "mental illness" in regard to religious beliefs, and I think that is sometimes the case, in this case I would consider it more of a contributing factor. Human reason knows a rather broad range from almost no reasoning capability, to rather dramatic levels of reasoning - often at the detriment of social functions and other forms of understanding. The sad thing is when people appear to be on the low end of the scale, and become indoctrinated to religion. Their low capacity for reason, along with a very common inability to challenge implied authority, tends to leave them convinced of things which simply defy all reason.

I think this could perhaps be classified as a minor (but fairly common) mental disorder, just as we can classify claustrophobia, agoraphobia, arachnophobia, fear of flying and several other common - but crippling - mental anomalies as "mental disorders". I also think it would be remiss to simply ignore that there is an obvious indoctrination factor. Many people are introduced to some of the basic tenets of their parent's religion while still so young and in their mental formative stages, that it becomes almost impossible for them to break free and allow reason to supersede superstition.

So you believe that religion is acting as a catalyst for her disorder? In your opinion what will help her?

Yes... a "catalyst". (I'm feeling a bit verbose, now.)

Helping her at this stage is likely to be very tricky, and likely something best attempted by a professional. She will be holding to her religious beliefs as the last thread in her support rope, and simultaneously, allowing those beliefs to slowly coil the rope around her throat. If she can separate from her beliefs before they kill her, the resulting lost of emotional comfort might itself, lead her back toward suicide.

The best I can suggest is to be there for her and talk to her, even if she claims she doesn't want to talk. And one of the keys with anyone who is suicidal, is to understand that no one truly wants to die. They want to live but they need life to be more rewarding, or to offer promise of greater reward in the future. Even if they claim they don't want to talk about it, they usually do - especially if they've reached out. But it's not at all uncommon to find people who will reach out, and then retract the moment you try to reach back to them. And that's fine. The important thing is to make sure that they know you're going to be there whenever they need you, and to remember that they're wanting the world to be sad for their situation. If they receive too much of that sadness, it can actually push them toward killing themselves, fearing that if they don't take advantage of the world's apparent sadness, that the sadness will be revoked.

Talk to her. Test the waters in regard to her desire to even consider that her religious beliefs may be more restrictive to her than they really need to be. It's not the time to try to rip her beliefs from her, but perhaps a time to see if they can be "loosened" to some degree.

And while I have done some professional suicide counseling (very short-term), I'm afraid I'm not really qualified to offer that as any kind of professional opinion.

It is delicate. As you know I am a spiritual person although I do subscribe to religious doctrines or churches. I know the bible very well and every time I bring up other possible translations to the verses she is using to support her claims she actually becomes very angry and tells me that you cannot change the bible to support your own cause for selfish reasons. I sent her something about sibling therapy. I'm willing to strip naked to my core and give up every secret I have in front of a psychologist to help her. She didn't respond. So perhaps you're right about retraction. You've given me something to think about.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 1:48:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:43:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

You ought to encourage her to get help from a professional psychiatrist. No unqualified forum people can assess anyone else correctly and even qualified people need to see patients face to face before they can assess them.

Yeah, she's been to a psychiatrist and she was over medicated and had to be hospitalized for hearing voices. Jesus came to visit her one day. There is some addiction hence the obvious resistance to medication. I know she needs professional help. But does she also need to let go of religious influences in her life as well?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 1:51:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:36:08 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.

Does she have spending sprees...in a lot of debt(not necessarily).....

She probably recently experienced another manic episode.....came down from that high .....became severely depressed or was just not thinking incorrectly during the mania and attempted suicide.....A diagnosis like hers can sometimes start out with depression as the only reported symptom....symptoms of mania can often be overlooked and manic episodes can be overlooked as well....because they are mild

Normally the depression...probably the most severe and chronic of her symptoms.....is often reported first...because it is the most bothersome...

May I ask this please? Has she ever been suspected of having Schizophrenia.....or is Schizo Affective Disorder....She doesn't her voices regularly does she?......I don't think so....but I have to ask.....

Jesus came to see her once. She was hearing voices but they attributed it to the wrong meds. Yes spending sprees, debt, all of it.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 2:01:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:56:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

A very sad state of affairs. To paraphrase and hopefully not insult Neil Young "the religion and the damage done"

I feel that without religion she'd be healthier. But I know absolutely nothing about psychology so who am I to say.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 2:19:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 1:51:43 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:36:08 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.

Does she have spending sprees...in a lot of debt(not necessarily).....

She probably recently experienced another manic episode.....came down from that high .....became severely depressed or was just not thinking incorrectly during the mania and attempted suicide.....A diagnosis like hers can sometimes start out with depression as the only reported symptom....symptoms of mania can often be overlooked and manic episodes can be overlooked as well....because they are mild

Normally the depression...probably the most severe and chronic of her symptoms.....is often reported first...because it is the most bothersome...

May I ask this please? Has she ever been suspected of having Schizophrenia.....or is Schizo Affective Disorder....She doesn't her voices regularly does she?......I don't think so....but I have to ask.....

Jesus came to see her once. She was hearing voices but they attributed it to the wrong Med's. Yes spending sprees, debt, all of it.

So on the voices......how often does she hear voices and have hallucinations.....Just isolated events?(......or chronic voices and chronic hallucinations? if chronic...she would likely already be taking Med's specifically for the voices..........

If acute then, it's likely "religious delusions" she is experiencing during a manic episode.....even when the episode is over....strong thoughts and beliefs can still remain and fester.....regarding the delusions...she is most likely delusional in other areas of her life to and her thinking during these "episodes"......When I say "religious delusions", I don't mean that is the only delusions she may be having at the time...but the "religious delusions"...those in my humble opinion are the most difficult to combat...

Bi-polar mania is tricky enough as it is.....just by itself...but when you throw in "religious delusions" on top of that or in with mania.....and then throw in the tricky?
My, my, my, my.......Very delicate.......very tricky

Curious how old she was when she experienced her first manic episode? Males usually 30 and below...females usually late 30's or early 40's.....but in can happen at practically any age...as well...

Is she working? How has it, or has it affected her employment?
jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 2:38:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 2:19:17 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:51:43 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:36:08 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.

Does she have spending sprees...in a lot of debt(not necessarily).....

She probably recently experienced another manic episode.....came down from that high .....became severely depressed or was just not thinking incorrectly during the mania and attempted suicide.....A diagnosis like hers can sometimes start out with depression as the only reported symptom....symptoms of mania can often be overlooked and manic episodes can be overlooked as well....because they are mild

Normally the depression...probably the most severe and chronic of her symptoms.....is often reported first...because it is the most bothersome...

May I ask this please? Has she ever been suspected of having Schizophrenia.....or is Schizo Affective Disorder....She doesn't her voices regularly does she?......I don't think so....but I have to ask.....

Jesus came to see her once. She was hearing voices but they attributed it to the wrong Med's. Yes spending sprees, debt, all of it.

So on the voices......how often does she hear voices and have hallucinations.....Just isolated events?(......or chronic voices and chronic hallucinations? if chronic...she would likely already be taking Med's specifically for the voices..........

If acute then, it's likely "religious delusions" she is experiencing during a manic episode.....even when the episode is over....strong thoughts and beliefs can still remain and fester.....regarding the delusions...she is most likely delusional in other areas of her life to and her thinking during these "episodes"......When I say "religious delusions", I don't mean that is the only delusions she may be having at the time...but the "religious delusions"...those in my humble opinion are the most difficult to combat...

Bi-polar mania is tricky enough as it is.....just by itself...but when you throw in "religious delusions" on top of that or in with mania.....and then throw in the tricky?
My, my, my, my.......Very delicate.......very tricky

Curious how old she was when she experienced her first manic episode? Males usually 30 and below...females usually late 30's or early 40's.....but in can happen at practically any age...as well...

Is she working? How has it, or has it affected her employment?

You obviously have some experience with this. It was her mid-thirties when it surfaced and caused huge problems, although she has always had tendencies towards depression and over the top religious moments. She's working now but it has affected her employment in the past. She is very educated, intelligent and very good in her field. Her "religious mania" as you call it has reached an all time high.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 3:01:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 2:38:28 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 2:19:17 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:51:43 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:36:08 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:19:20 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 1:02:32 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.


You have to be very delicate with her situation...if what I'm thinking is going on is correct. May I ask a few questions...please?

Is she Bi-polar and has manic episodes with loads of depression to follow or is she more uni-polar...all depression never mania....I believe the former...you'll know which...
If she has manic episodes...she could likely be experiencing "religious delusions,"...a form of the mania.....either way a very delicate situation...especially if she is experiencing delusions....

I have a few more questions...but I will wait for your response....

She is bi-polar. That's the diagnosis anyway. She has manic episodes. A week before the pills she bought a new car and was happy. She is very religious and always has been.

Does she have spending sprees...in a lot of debt(not necessarily).....

She probably recently experienced another manic episode.....came down from that high .....became severely depressed or was just not thinking incorrectly during the mania and attempted suicide.....A diagnosis like hers can sometimes start out with depression as the only reported symptom....symptoms of mania can often be overlooked and manic episodes can be overlooked as well....because they are mild

Normally the depression...probably the most severe and chronic of her symptoms.....is often reported first...because it is the most bothersome...

May I ask this please? Has she ever been suspected of having Schizophrenia.....or is Schizo Affective Disorder....She doesn't her voices regularly does she?......I don't think so....but I have to ask.....

Jesus came to see her once. She was hearing voices but they attributed it to the wrong Med's. Yes spending sprees, debt, all of it.

So on the voices......how often does she hear voices and have hallucinations.....Just isolated events?(......or chronic voices and chronic hallucinations? if chronic...she would likely already be taking Med's specifically for the voices..........

If acute then, it's likely "religious delusions" she is experiencing during a manic episode.....even when the episode is over....strong thoughts and beliefs can still remain and fester.....regarding the delusions...she is most likely delusional in other areas of her life to and her thinking during these "episodes"......When I say "religious delusions", I don't mean that is the only delusions she may be having at the time...but the "religious delusions"...those in my humble opinion are the most difficult to combat...

Bi-polar mania is tricky enough as it is.....just by itself...but when you throw in "religious delusions" on top of that or in with mania.....and then throw in the tricky?
My, my, my, my.......Very delicate.......very tricky

Curious how old she was when she experienced her first manic episode? Males usually 30 and below...females usually late 30's or early 40's.....but in can happen at practically any age...as well...

Is she working? How has it, or has it affected her employment?

You obviously have some experience with this. It was her mid-thirties when it surfaced and caused huge problems, although she has always had tendencies towards depression and over the top religious moments. She's working now but it has affected her employment in the past. She is very educated, intelligent and very good in her field. Her "religious mania" as you call it has reached an all time high.

So that's a no...I take on chronic voices and hallucinations?
fazz
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10/29/2014 3:08:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

I have heard of this before. Once I read a report about villages in India very rural. So they have traditions like purdah (translated as 'curtains') that is, the women is never seen in public unless fully covered and clothed, and not accompanied by her husband. The report was about the devastating Storm and Typhoon that caused 100s of millions of damages. This woman was a wife who had married at a young age. She did not know anything of the outside world. So when the storm came everyone in the village had left. This women was so used to her home that she refused to come out. Perhaps she feared that people would "see" her real face. But she stayed behind the curtains as the typhoon came and blew everything away.

When I read this my first thought was about animals in cages. I thought of how gorrillas that have grown up in human care can never be free. Once they are used to their "cage" it becomes their home. So when they are let free they do not go to the forest but come back to their cages. In some sense, we humans create our own figurative prisons in the recesses of our minds. We have become so advanced as a civilization but sometimes I wonder if all our knowledge is so 'abstract' that we lose the ability to reason and use common sense. In this manner Culture & Religion both can become cages of the mind.
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 3:11:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Where is she at with the illness personally:

Is she in any type of denial that she is bi-polar and has manic episodes?

If she excepts....something,,,about her illness...what does she accept?

Does she believe she ever had a hallucination or delusion? Or does she still believe that it actually happened and says it wasn't delusion or a hallucination?

How long ago was it that she thinks she saw Jesus?

Has she been hospitalized ever?

Has she told her Dr. that she believes she has had religious delusions?......or does she try to hide it?

Is there times in the past that she wasn't strong and vocal about her faith....maybe sometimes of doubt, depression, and silence?......OR no lapses in her faith....very strong and vocal all the time?

If
Composer
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10/29/2014 3:15:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 2:01:52 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:56:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

A very sad state of affairs. To paraphrase and hopefully not insult Neil Young "the religion and the damage done"

I feel that without religion she'd be healthier. But I know absolutely nothing about psychology so who am I to say.

People with a bi-polar disorder mostly don't want to be cured as they invariably enjoy all the attention!
jodybirdy
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10/29/2014 3:23:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:11:56 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Where is she at with the illness personally:

Is she in any type of denial that she is bi-polar and has manic episodes?

She knows she has problems but she believes she can stop taking Med's and be fine.

If she excepts....something,,,about her illness...what does she accept?

That she is bi-polar. She is in health care and so I believe she trusts a doctor's diagnosis.

Does she believe she ever had a hallucination or delusion? Or does she still believe that it actually happened and says it wasn't delusion or a hallucination?

She new what they were when she had them, but it doesn't make sense to me because she still did what they told her to do. She believes that Jesus REALLY visited her.

How long ago was it that she thinks she saw Jesus?

A few years before the man's voice that told her to burn herself.

Has she been hospitalized ever?

Twice.

Has she told her Dr. that she believes she has had religious delusions?......or does she try to hide it?

I don't know what she tells the doctor.

Is there times in the past that she wasn't strong and vocal about her faith....maybe sometimes of doubt, depression, and silence?......OR no lapses in her faith....very strong and vocal all the time?

She went nuts a few years back and had a bit of a midlife crisis. She was wilder than I was at 18. She didn't take about God during that time.

If
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 3:35:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:15:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/29/2014 2:01:52 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:56:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

A very sad state of affairs. To paraphrase and hopefully not insult Neil Young "the religion and the damage done"

I feel that without religion she'd be healthier. But I know absolutely nothing about psychology so who am I to say.

People with a bi-polar disorder mostly don't want to be cured as they invariably enjoy all the attention!

Do you think that without religion that she would be less bi-polar? Is it a catalyst or a cause?
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 3:38:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:08:01 AM, fazz wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

I have heard of this before. Once I read a report about villages in India very rural. So they have traditions like purdah (translated as 'curtains') that is, the women is never seen in public unless fully covered and clothed, and not accompanied by her husband. The report was about the devastating Storm and Typhoon that caused 100s of millions of damages. This woman was a wife who had married at a young age. She did not know anything of the outside world. So when the storm came everyone in the village had left. This women was so used to her home that she refused to come out. Perhaps she feared that people would "see" her real face. But she stayed behind the curtains as the typhoon came and blew everything away.

When I read this my first thought was about animals in cages. I thought of how gorrillas that have grown up in human care can never be free. Once they are used to their "cage" it becomes their home. So when they are let free they do not go to the forest but come back to their cages. In some sense, we humans create our own figurative prisons in the recesses of our minds. We have become so advanced as a civilization but sometimes I wonder if all our knowledge is so 'abstract' that we lose the ability to reason and use common sense. In this manner Culture & Religion both can become cages of the mind.

I agree with you completely.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/29/2014 3:38:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:23:45 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:11:56 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Where is she at with the illness personally:

Is she in any type of denial that she is bi-polar and has manic episodes?

She knows she has problems but she believes she can stop taking Med's and be fine.

If she excepts....something,,,about her illness...what does she accept?

That she is bi-polar. She is in health care and so I believe she trusts a doctor's diagnosis.

Does she believe she ever had a hallucination or delusion? Or does she still believe that it actually happened and says it wasn't delusion or a hallucination?

She new what they were when she had them, but it doesn't make sense to me because she still did what they told her to do. She believes that Jesus REALLY visited her.

How long ago was it that she thinks she saw Jesus?

A few years before the man's voice that told her to burn herself.

Has she been hospitalized ever?

Twice.

Has she told her Dr. that she believes she has had religious delusions?......or does she try to hide it?

I don't know what she tells the doctor.

Is there times in the past that she wasn't strong and vocal about her faith....maybe sometimes of doubt, depression, and silence?......OR no lapses in her faith....very strong and vocal all the time?

She went nuts a few years back and had a bit of a midlife crisis. She was wilder than I was at 18. She didn't take about God during that time.

If
Call her bluff -

Ask her if she really believes she is a genuine jebus believer, to pray to jebus to cure her using e.g. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) English Standard Version (ESV) Story book

She can have no legitimate argument that she might not get what she asked for but that in itself is another bluff!

There is NO caveat on using John 15:7, jebus made the promise to ANY genuine believer no questions further asked!

Read John 15:7 carefully, as jebus has made this promise and it is ' a given ' without question to those qualified to receive & have said request immediately fulfilled.

When it fails as it always does, she will know she is either a fraudulent believer Or Story book jebus is a MYTH Or a LIAR! hence Unworthy of respect and she is free to dump her story book and get on with life without her mythical based crutch!
biznis
Posts: 125
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10/29/2014 3:49:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:23:45 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:11:56 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Where is she at with the illness personally:

Is she in any type of denial that she is bi-polar and has manic episodes?

She knows she has problems but she believes she can stop taking Med's and be fine.

If she excepts....something,,,about her illness...what does she accept?

That she is bi-polar. She is in health care and so I believe she trusts a doctor's diagnosis.

Does she believe she ever had a hallucination or delusion? Or does she still believe that it actually happened and says it wasn't delusion or a hallucination?

She new what they were when she had them, but it doesn't make sense to me because she still did what they told her to do. She believes that Jesus REALLY visited her.

How long ago was it that she thinks she saw Jesus?

A few years before the man's voice that told her to burn herself.

Has she been hospitalized ever?

Twice.

Has she told her Dr. that she believes she has had religious delusions?......or does she try to hide it?

I don't know what she tells the doctor.

Is there times in the past that she wasn't strong and vocal about her faith....maybe sometimes of doubt, depression, and silence?......OR no lapses in her faith....very strong and vocal all the time?

She went nuts a few years back and had a bit of a midlife crisis. She was wilder than I was at 18. She didn't take about God during that time.

Self-persecution and persecution of others.....both there too?

There are triggers too.....such as stress, anxiety, drugs, divorce, marriage, deaths, finances, birth of child,......etc.....

You should likely see some problems with addiction, promiscuity(only at times), high-risk behavior, pressured speech(during mania only), racing thoughts(mania), euphoria or grandiose thinking(mania),.......during periods of severe depression...you should see some isolation too
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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10/29/2014 4:28:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:49:26 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:23:45 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:11:56 AM, biznis wrote:
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Where is she at with the illness personally:

Is she in any type of denial that she is bi-polar and has manic episodes?

She knows she has problems but she believes she can stop taking Med's and be fine.

If she excepts....something,,,about her illness...what does she accept?

That she is bi-polar. She is in health care and so I believe she trusts a doctor's diagnosis.

Does she believe she ever had a hallucination or delusion? Or does she still believe that it actually happened and says it wasn't delusion or a hallucination?

She new what they were when she had them, but it doesn't make sense to me because she still did what they told her to do. She believes that Jesus REALLY visited her.

How long ago was it that she thinks she saw Jesus?

A few years before the man's voice that told her to burn herself.

Has she been hospitalized ever?

Twice.

Has she told her Dr. that she believes she has had religious delusions?......or does she try to hide it?

I don't know what she tells the doctor.

Is there times in the past that she wasn't strong and vocal about her faith....maybe sometimes of doubt, depression, and silence?......OR no lapses in her faith....very strong and vocal all the time?

She went nuts a few years back and had a bit of a midlife crisis. She was wilder than I was at 18. She didn't take about God during that time.

Self-persecution and persecution of others.....both there too?

There are triggers too.....such as stress, anxiety, drugs, divorce, marriage, deaths, finances, birth of child,......etc.....

You should likely see some problems with addiction, promiscuity(only at times), high-risk behavior, pressured speech(during mania only), racing thoughts(mania), euphoria or grandiose thinking(mania),.......during periods of severe depression...you should see some isolation too

You've described her perfectly.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/29/2014 5:21:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 12:18:33 AM, jodybirdy wrote:
Someone close to me tried to commit suicide. She took 40 ativan and 20 other pills of some variety. She was surprised to wake up two days later. No one knew it happened until afterwards. She has been separated from her husband for years now and refuses to grant him a divorce because the Bible states that it is wrong and that they will both be adulterers for the rest of their lives and she must remain alone to have chance of going to heaven. Her reasoning when she took the pills is that she loves her husband so much and now he wants to see other people. So she wanted to kill herself to save him from going to hell. She says that she will face an eternity in Hell so that he doesn't have to.

I what to know if the people here agree with me that religion is adding to her depression. I think it is bad for her at this point and that she has taken it entirely too far. I think that overly religious people often go insane because religion allows them to completely omit reality as an alternative to facing adversity.

Please remember we are discussing a real person here. And that my question involves whether or not this can be blamed on religion or if she's just looking for excuses. Is she mental because the Bible told her so or is she just mental?

I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think that my assessment could be flawed.

Well the fact that most christians are not going around looking, with all due respect, crazy, means that there's a personal component in here. Your friend has probably a mental issue of some kind.

Now, that religion worsens that mental issue? I totaly agree. Religion is a very compelling way of distorting reality, which is something you wouldn't want a crazy person to do.