Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Authority, Morality, and Psychology

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 1:32:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is a video that everyone needs to watch. This is especially important to what I was saying in the other thread regarding authority and man's own responsibility.

(I put this in religion because there's no "Philosophy" forum.)

Some quotes of interest from the video:

"As soon as I hear that somebody is thinking that another authority or another person has the rights over their mental and emotional and attitudinal and psychic life, I'm worried about that person because I know that person has got some very serious psychological and existential problems. Then that person is going to be part of some heard, or will be a controller of a heard, or will be manipulated by the heard. And you're never going to find that person doing good in the world, real necessary good at all. It's just a contradiction in terms." - Michael Tsarion

"So the fundamental line is discover that there is a hidden hand mind controlling the world operating to keep you down. Understand that you are participant in that because you are allowing those hooks into your flesh." - Michael Tsarion

"You must distinguish the difference between saying "Have I been sold a lie?" And the difference between "Yeah, but have I bought a lie." Because there's all the difference in the world attitudinally between those two statements. You are being sold a lie! But that's the perfect right of that salesman to sell you a lie." - Michael Tsarion

"No human being who is in their center, who is being guided, who is close to their intuition, who's got a sharp critical apparatus, who's got a sharp sense of judgment can ever be manipulated." - Michael Tsarion

"A lot of the obstacles and challenges and tragedies that are occuring in the world; that's what their for. This is the grinder, this is the thing that's sharpening the blades of intelligent people." - Michael Tsarion
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 1:46:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 1:36:01 AM, Puck wrote:
Herd. :P

Yeah, I was writing fast. I personally record Michael Tsarion's quotes on my own. I play the video and try to type out the quotes as he speaks.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 4:27:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lol it amuses me that you made a post full of quotes from an authoritative figure on the destructiveness of taking things on authority...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 4:34:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 4:27:40 PM, belle wrote:
lol it amuses me that you made a post full of quotes from an authoritative figure on the destructiveness of taking things on authority...

bingo.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 4:35:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 4:34:15 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/22/2010 4:27:40 PM, belle wrote:
lol it amuses me that you made a post full of quotes from an authoritative figure on the destructiveness of taking things on authority...

bingo.

MT is just less threatening because he doesn't have as much authority :P
President of DDO
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 6:34:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 4:34:15 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/22/2010 4:27:40 PM, belle wrote:
lol it amuses me that you made a post full of quotes from an authoritative figure on the destructiveness of taking things on authority...

bingo.

Are you guys serious?

He's a guide, not an authority.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 6:56:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:34:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/22/2010 4:34:15 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/22/2010 4:27:40 PM, belle wrote:
lol it amuses me that you made a post full of quotes from an authoritative figure on the destructiveness of taking things on authority...

bingo.

Are you guys serious?

He's a guide, not an authority.

Kinda makes "This is a video that everyone needs to watch." pointless then doesn't it? :P
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2010 8:35:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 6:56:43 PM, Puck wrote:
Kinda makes "This is a video that everyone needs to watch." pointless then doesn't it? :P

Those were words to stress the importance of the video. It wasn't an authoritative comment, nor is anything he says in the video.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Floid
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2010 5:53:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"No human being who is in their center, who is being guided, who is close to their intuition, who's got a sharp critical apparatus, who's got a sharp sense of judgment can ever be manipulated." - Michael Tsarion

I think by definition if you are being guided you are being manipulated, now that could be manipulated for the better or for the worse, but manipulated none the less.

This Michael Tsarion sounds like someone who uses a lot of words to not say very much.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2010 12:26:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
ma·nip·u·late (m-npy-lt)
tr.v. ma·nip·u·lat·ed, ma·nip·u·lat·ing, ma·nip·u·lates
1. To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: She manipulated the lights to get just the effect she wanted.
2. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously: He manipulated public opinion in his favor.
3. To tamper with or falsify for personal gain: tried to manipulate stock prices.

On the other hand, one must ask yourself -- does everyone want to be self-sufficient? Do people really desire intellectual and philosophical autonomy?

Because, to be honest with you, that seems to be too much responsibility for most.

I have to admit, you can't blame evil men for feeding from those who take their breast out for them.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2010 12:26:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 12:26:22 PM, Ren wrote:
ma·nip·u·late (m-npy-lt)
tr.v. ma·nip·u·lat·ed, ma·nip·u·lat·ing, ma·nip·u·lates
1. To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: She manipulated the lights to get just the effect she wanted.
2. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously: He manipulated public opinion in his favor.
3. To tamper with or falsify for personal gain: tried to manipulate stock prices.

On the other hand, one must ask his or herself -- does everyone want to be self-sufficient? Do people really desire intellectual and philosophical autonomy?

Because, to be honest with you, that seems to be too much responsibility for most.

I have to admit, you can't blame evil men for feeding from those who take their breast out for them.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/27/2010 2:28:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 5:53:36 AM, Floid wrote:
"No human being who is in their center, who is being guided, who is close to their intuition, who's got a sharp critical apparatus, who's got a sharp sense of judgment can ever be manipulated." - Michael Tsarion


I think by definition if you are being guided you are being manipulated, now that could be manipulated for the better or for the worse, but manipulated none the less.

Equivocation of terms. Are you being manipulated when you follow a street sign that leads to the right road?

This Michael Tsarion sounds like someone who uses a lot of words to not say very much.

That's what people say when they don't understand something. And if he was saying nothing, then you wouldnt be disagreeing with his sentiments.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/27/2010 5:33:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 2:28:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
That's what people say when they don't understand something. And if he was saying nothing, then you wouldnt be disagreeing with his sentiments.

eh "their own science proves their is no tomorrow"

"the judgment of the universal force"

the sentences mean something, but still they are devoid of real content. for example, how can a force possess judgment? how do you "prove" that there is no tomorrow? wtf is he on about? lol.

its really not complicated. everything you believe is a lie and there are people out there manipulating you. its your job to "wake up" and take control. how do you do that? by trusting me when i tell you everyone except me is lying to you...

....

its not very compelling is all :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/27/2010 8:47:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 5:33:50 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/27/2010 2:28:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
That's what people say when they don't understand something. And if he was saying nothing, then you wouldnt be disagreeing with his sentiments.

eh "their own science proves their is no tomorrow"

"the judgment of the universal force"

the sentences mean something, but still they are devoid of real content. for example, how can a force possess judgment? how do you "prove" that there is no tomorrow? wtf is he on about? lol.


its not very compelling is all :P

If those were the only two sentences that you heard, or you thought were the center of his whole point, then you were missing the point entirely. For example, his point wasn't that "science proves tomorrow doesn't exist," but that people who guide public perception (priests, gurus, scientists) are always holding a carrot in front of your face representing something that isn't real. Always drawing people's attention towards the future rather than the ever-important present.

His point wasn't that there is a judgment field of a universal force, but rather that, the concern is not about whether "they sell you a lie" but rather, whether or not you bought that lie. For example, the Catholic priests and lying politicians have every right to sell you a lie. But that's their right as a salesman. The true moral component is whether or not you bought that lie and what you put your energy into.

It seems you focused on the wrong words and missed the point of what he was saying.

its really not complicated. everything you believe is a lie

He made no such accusation. His focus was on how to and what the importance is of discernment.

and there are people out there manipulating you. its your job to "wake up" and take control. how do you do that? by trusting me when i tell you everyone except me is lying to you...

No, that wasn't even implied, let alone stated. He doesn't ask you to believe him, nor was there anything to "believe" in that video. He was inquiring and stressing the importance of psychological independence.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/27/2010 8:59:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 8:47:41 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
If those were the only two sentences that you heard, or you thought were the center of his whole point, then you were missing the point entirely.

they just stuck in my head as the most obvious examples of him making absurd statements.

For example, his point wasn't that "science proves tomorrow doesn't exist," but that people who guide public perception (priests, gurus, scientists) are always holding a carrot in front of your face representing something that isn't real. Always drawing people's attention towards the future rather than the ever-important present.

i'm sure that wasn't his main point but him saying it in an offhanded manner as if its obviously true kind of kills his credibility. and like i said, that was just one of the most blatant examples of an absurd claim made with a straight face.

additionally, while getting too mired in it is bad for psychological heath, thinking of the future is one of our greatest strengths as humans. our ability to plan mightily increases our adaptability and success in disparate environments.

His point wasn't that there is a judgment field of a universal force, but rather that, the concern is not about whether "they sell you a lie" but rather, whether or not you bought that lie. For example, the Catholic priests and lying politicians have every right to sell you a lie. But that's their right as a salesman. The true moral component is whether or not you bought that lie and what you put your energy into.

but he did say it, again in a manner as though it is obvious. i agree that anyone has a right to say anything they want- including sell me a lie- and its my responsibility whether i decide to accept it as truth or not. in that bare bones form what he says makes sense. but thats one sentence. the rest of the video is fluff and false claims.

He made no such accusation. His focus was on how to and what the importance is of discernment.

sure he did. maybe not "everything you believe" but certainly "everything you are told by authority figures who aren't me"

No, that wasn't even implied, let alone stated. He doesn't ask you to believe him, nor was there anything to "believe" in that video. He was inquiring and stressing the importance of psychological independence.

and if you independently come to the conclusion that he is full of shyte and not everything you learn from mainstream media is a lie... will he *not* call you a sheep? hmmm...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...