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The Council of Nicea

shaddamcorrinoIV
Posts: 106
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10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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10/29/2014 10:53:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

You are an Arian? Interesting...
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Karmanator
Posts: 142
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10/29/2014 10:58:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:30:21 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
They made a man into God. Bump.

And it is written ye are gods children of the most high.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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10/29/2014 11:01:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

If you're Christian you have to accept that Arianism is heresy. It is but one of many heresies that have beset Christianity.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/30/2014 11:35:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 11:01:47 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

If you're Christian you have to accept that Arianism is heresy. It is but one of many heresies that have beset Christianity.

It's only heresy because Constantine appointed the particular council he chose. THEY decided it was heresy, and they had no greater understanding, knowledge or experience than any other common Christian group of the day. You might remember that Galileo was a heretic too, as was Sir Isaac Newton. It's just a word applied by those placed into positions of proclaimed authority, to be used as a label toward anyone holding beliefs contrary to their own. Just like Catholics are heretics to Pentecostals, who are "heretics" to Lutherans, who are "heretics" to Calvinists, who are "heretics to Methodists, etc., etc.

"Heretic" is just a label which means "I think your beliefs are wrong".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/31/2014 8:23:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries

They actually didn't know too much about eachother before the council of Nicea. Arian and his followers went into the council expecting that they were going to win because in his area that was the majority teaching. Then at the council they were like, "yeah that's not right." And then obviously over the next few years they were still arguing because beliefs just don't die out right when they are labeled a heresy.

2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another.

To say it was an "historical chance" seems like kind of a big stretch. There's a reason Christian's don't hold to Arianism today and I do not think its simply because of the council of Nicea. People can read the bible for themselves today and figure it out.

In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

jeez
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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10/31/2014 8:33:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

"In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization."

Man, I'd hate to see your list of "worst mistakes of Western Civilization." Just for kicks, could you rattle off your top five?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/31/2014 11:20:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

Most of the time through out the history of Christianity, it has adapted to its political environment. If its politically persecuted it hides from the laws of the day. It wasn"t long ago that in china Christians only communicated in secret. Same in the roman empire before Constantine decided to cut a deal for their political influence and support. Now in china the powers that be have made nice with the Christian community by allowing a state run church. No different then Rome and the Catholic church then. England made their own church of which the King was vicar. In the US the churches other than churches of state and the like, have a voting body, and the preacher has to deal with them like politicians do with voters. The very early church with the apostle organized in a semi socialist manner to survive Israel"s society rejection. Hard to get a job when all are taught to hate you.

Doesn"t matter, world authority and power in the hands of human nature always becomes corrupted. It wasn"t important who or what or how, a church develops and grows. All that was important then was, it became unacceptable socially to treat Christians as out casts because of the God they worshiped. Back in that day, the Roman empire collected gods of conquered societies like trinkets in a box. There were many Emperors that insisted that they were to be worshiped as gods also. Other gods wasn't something Roman power was afread of. Why the Christian belief was feared by Rome, but Rome had no fear of the others could be interesting.
shaddamcorrinoIV
Posts: 106
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10/31/2014 7:04:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 8:33:00 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

"In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization."

Man, I'd hate to see your list of "worst mistakes of Western Civilization." Just for kicks, could you rattle off your top five?

1) When the German people elected Hitler as chancellor

2) The Trail of Tears

3) )Caesar Appointed Dictator of Rome

4) The Council of Nicaea

5)British Invasion of Gallipoli
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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10/31/2014 7:07:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 7:04:44 PM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
At 10/31/2014 8:33:00 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

"In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization."

Man, I'd hate to see your list of "worst mistakes of Western Civilization." Just for kicks, could you rattle off your top five?

1) When the German people elected Hitler as chancellor

2) The Trail of Tears

3) )Caesar Appointed Dictator of Rome

4) The Council of Nicaea

5)British Invasion of Gallipoli

I think that explains it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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10/31/2014 7:32:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 11:20:40 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.


Most of the time through out the history of Christianity, it has adapted to its political environment. If its politically persecuted it hides from the laws of the day. It wasn"t long ago that in china Christians only communicated in secret. Same in the roman empire before Constantine decided to cut a deal for their political influence and support. Now in china the powers that be have made nice with the Christian community by allowing a state run church. No different then Rome and the Catholic church then. England made their own church of which the King was vicar. In the US the churches other than churches of state and the like, have a voting body, and the preacher has to deal with them like politicians do with voters. The very early church with the apostle organized in a semi socialist manner to survive Israel"s society rejection. Hard to get a job when all are taught to hate you.

Doesn"t matter, world authority and power in the hands of human nature always becomes corrupted. It wasn"t important who or what or how, a church develops and grows. All that was important then was, it became unacceptable socially to treat Christians as out casts because of the God they worshiped. Back in that day, the Roman empire collected gods of conquered societies like trinkets in a box. There were many Emperors that insisted that they were to be worshiped as gods also. Other gods wasn't something Roman power was afread of. Why the Christian belief was feared by Rome, but Rome had no fear of the others could be interesting.

I think that the reason why the Romans feared Christianity was because it was a denial of everything that the Roman Empire stood for; it denied the importance of earthly things; it preached that the morality of the Empire was immoral; by denying other gods it was an attack on the multicultural nature of the Empire, and so was a socio-political threat as well.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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10/31/2014 7:37:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 7:04:44 PM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
At 10/31/2014 8:33:00 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

"In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization."

Man, I'd hate to see your list of "worst mistakes of Western Civilization." Just for kicks, could you rattle off your top five?

1) When the German people elected Hitler as chancellor

2) The Trail of Tears

3) )Caesar Appointed Dictator of Rome

4) The Council of Nicaea

5)British Invasion of Gallipoli

I would replace 4) with the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid Empire--that was the real catastrophe, Christianity is a product of that; 3) with the murder of Archimedes, and 5) with the murder of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand--we could have been spared the whole thing.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/1/2014 11:52:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 7:32:48 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:20:40 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.


Most of the time through out the history of Christianity, it has adapted to its political environment. If its politically persecuted it hides from the laws of the day. It wasn"t long ago that in china Christians only communicated in secret. Same in the roman empire before Constantine decided to cut a deal for their political influence and support. Now in china the powers that be have made nice with the Christian community by allowing a state run church. No different then Rome and the Catholic church then. England made their own church of which the King was vicar. In the US the churches other than churches of state and the like, have a voting body, and the preacher has to deal with them like politicians do with voters. The very early church with the apostle organized in a semi socialist manner to survive Israel"s society rejection. Hard to get a job when all are taught to hate you.

Doesn"t matter, world authority and power in the hands of human nature always becomes corrupted. It wasn"t important who or what or how, a church develops and grows. All that was important then was, it became unacceptable socially to treat Christians as out casts because of the God they worshiped. Back in that day, the Roman empire collected gods of conquered societies like trinkets in a box. There were many Emperors that insisted that they were to be worshiped as gods also. Other gods wasn't something Roman power was afread of. Why the Christian belief was feared by Rome, but Rome had no fear of the others could be interesting.

I think that the reason why the Romans feared Christianity was because it was a denial of everything that the Roman Empire stood for; it denied the importance of earthly things; it preached that the morality of the Empire was immoral; by denying other gods it was an attack on the multicultural nature of the Empire, and so was a socio-political threat as well.

I wouldn"t know for a historical fact, if that"s true or not, but if one looks at those who have an animosity towards Christianity today, for what was some of the reasons posted here? Because it affects their society and interferes with their freedom to do what they want to do? Then yes you are probably correct. Not by reason of historical facts, but because human nature never changes, therefore the same today as yesterday.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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11/1/2014 11:58:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I also forgot to mention that human nature and God"s nature are contrary to each other. Hence Christianity is really the agreement that in mankind should be the manifestations of the nature of the Lord God, man"s Creator, not human nature. Therefore it is human nature to reject God's nature within himself, and fear the enforced requierment thereof.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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11/1/2014 7:02:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 11:52:05 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/31/2014 7:32:48 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:20:40 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.


Most of the time through out the history of Christianity, it has adapted to its political environment. If its politically persecuted it hides from the laws of the day. It wasn"t long ago that in china Christians only communicated in secret. Same in the roman empire before Constantine decided to cut a deal for their political influence and support. Now in china the powers that be have made nice with the Christian community by allowing a state run church. No different then Rome and the Catholic church then. England made their own church of which the King was vicar. In the US the churches other than churches of state and the like, have a voting body, and the preacher has to deal with them like politicians do with voters. The very early church with the apostle organized in a semi socialist manner to survive Israel"s society rejection. Hard to get a job when all are taught to hate you.

Doesn"t matter, world authority and power in the hands of human nature always becomes corrupted. It wasn"t important who or what or how, a church develops and grows. All that was important then was, it became unacceptable socially to treat Christians as out casts because of the God they worshiped. Back in that day, the Roman empire collected gods of conquered societies like trinkets in a box. There were many Emperors that insisted that they were to be worshiped as gods also. Other gods wasn't something Roman power was afread of. Why the Christian belief was feared by Rome, but Rome had no fear of the others could be interesting.

I think that the reason why the Romans feared Christianity was because it was a denial of everything that the Roman Empire stood for; it denied the importance of earthly things; it preached that the morality of the Empire was immoral; by denying other gods it was an attack on the multicultural nature of the Empire, and so was a socio-political threat as well.

I wouldn"t know for a historical fact, if that"s true or not, but if one looks at those who have an animosity towards Christianity today, for what was some of the reasons posted here? Because it affects their society and interferes with their freedom to do what they want to do? Then yes you are probably correct. Not by reason of historical facts, but because human nature never changes, therefore the same today as yesterday.

I largely agree, Christianity is an affront against the right of men and women everywhere, which is why it is resisted.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Atheist-Independent
Posts: 776
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11/2/2014 3:43:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 10:17:43 AM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
I was reading a paper on the history of Christianity that had a Nicene-bias it said: "And the Arians attacked true Christianity for a number of years even after the council." This made me lol. For 1) if I remember my history correctly it was the Niceneas that were attacking us Arians for centuries 2) "True Christianity," that is real funny how every denomination calls itself "true Christianity" as historian Phillip Jenkins points out in his book Jesus Wars it is only by historical chance that the Roman/Byzantine Empire decided to back one group of bishops instead of another. In summary the Council of Nicaea was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the Western Civilization.

Nicea basically established Christianity as the primary religion of the Roman Empire. So if you are anti-Christian, it was bad, if not, it was good.