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How do you know your religion is true?

joeparis123
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10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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10/29/2014 4:31:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

and Benevolence is greater than selfishness...
and x is greater than z
and consciousness is greater than non-consciousness
and Knowing everything is greater than not knowing everything
and being right is greater than being wrong

therefore the omniscient, omnibenevolent, all powerful God exists because I think he's Great! :o)
mortsdor
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10/29/2014 4:36:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

Otherwise it wouldn't be all that great, would it?
SNP1
Posts: 2,407
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10/29/2014 5:31:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 4:31:29 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

Evidence that the greatest possible thing must exist.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
mortsdor
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10/29/2014 5:51:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 5:31:03 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 4:31:29 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

Evidence that the greatest possible thing must exist.

Can you conceptualize/imagine something being most great?

Assuming you can..

if it were to exist only as an idea in the mind, then we would be able to imagine something that is greater.... (that is, the same thing, but existent in Reality!)

which would be a contradiction of it being the most great thing.

Therefore if you can imagine something most great, it MUST exist in reality

Obviously :P

http://www.iep.utm.edu...
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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10/29/2014 5:55:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Take religions and follow logic. as my logic starts, you most examine the scriptures of any religions... so first check if we have today the original readings.. if any religion hasnt it. dont waste time going further, secondly examine the claims it brought, for example concept of God,what it says for this world and hereafter, justice... reasonably check it, doing that i believe the only way you will have is Islam. peace.
Never fart near dog
Dragonfang
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10/29/2014 6:05:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You don't have to study every single religion in existence; if you find the truth, falsehood shall depart.

That is because Allah is the Truth, and that which they call upon other than Him is falsehood, and because Allah is the Most High, the Grand. (Quran 22:62)

And say, "Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart." (Quran 17:81)

So first you need to set criteria for search for the truth that is based on logic and intuition. Then, step by step the circle of search will get smaller. Study the religions that agree with what you logically know to be absolutely true and the criteria that you set.
For example, if you set the criteria that the creator is an immaterial all-powerful first cause for the universe we see, and acknowledge that multiple gods are impossible, thousands of "false religions" are out. Every invention we have requires instructions, mice and bees instinctively knows what to do, but for us humans we require some sort of instruction if we are created by a creator.

TBH, I don't see Judaism or Christianity as coherent.
Judaism is a nationalistic religion, not a global one. So non-Jews shouldn't worship God? Furthermore, the OT is not preserved and is written by unknown men, unknown number of men, at unknown times (oldest manuscript is around 1200 years after Moses?), and at unknown places. Not to mention faulty characteristics of God.
Christianity's scriptures don't have a much better record of preservation on top of Judaism's scripture preservation. That is in addition to logical incoherence and contradiction of doctrines and perceptions.

Islam is submission to God the creator alone while leaving behind self-worship and any worship of a creation. It encourages knowledge and it's scripture is preserved and authentic. It have a complete doctrine and legislation that is valid for all time and place.

Sorry had to enter a biased rant. Take it as you will and feel free to argue.
SNP1
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10/29/2014 7:28:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 5:51:06 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/29/2014 5:31:03 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 4:31:29 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

Evidence that the greatest possible thing must exist.

Can you conceptualize/imagine something being most great?

Assuming you can..

if it were to exist only as an idea in the mind, then we would be able to imagine something that is greater.... (that is, the same thing, but existent in Reality!)

which would be a contradiction of it being the most great thing.

Therefore if you can imagine something most great, it MUST exist in reality

Obviously :P

http://www.iep.utm.edu...

1) Converse error.

The logic flows this way:
If something exists, it has greatness.

The argument uses the converse (which is not logical)
If something has greatness, then it exists.

2) Unsupported assumption

The argument assumes that existence is greater than non-existence.

3) Circular reasoning

The conclusion is built into the assumption.

Example:
1) Hogwarts is the greatest place on earth.
2) A place that exists is greater than one that doesn't.
3) Therefore, Hogwarts exists.

4) Same logic provides contradicting results

Gasking's Parody:
1) The creation of the universe is the greatest achievement imaginable.
2) The merit of an achievement consists of its intrinsic greatness and the ability of its creator.
3) The greater the handicap to the creator, the greater the achievement (would you be more impressed by Turner painting a beautiful landscape or a blind one-armed dwarf?)
4) The biggest handicap to a creator would be non-existence
5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the creation of an existing creator, we can conceive a greater being " namely, one who created everything while not existing.
6) Therefore, God does not exist.

Conclusion:
The argument is flawed, and is not evidence.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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10/29/2014 7:31:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

If they are truly your own views, that could be evidence they are in error. The truth of your self or about yourself and how you think and feel, yea, but the truth of what to believe, can"t be of self. Just in case that"s where you are with that.

Therefore how do you verify for yourself what is true, in anything that is important enough to you to verify for your self? As in not just be informed, but know.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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10/29/2014 10:12:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
How do you know your religion is true?

Because five out of seven people disbelieve it.
Obed
Posts: 463
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10/29/2014 11:14:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Jesus tells us how we can know. Jesus says to do what he says, and then we will know.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
bulproof
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10/29/2014 11:17:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 11:14:35 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Jesus tells us how we can know. Jesus says to do what he says, and then we will know.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Pretending to know what some mythical bronze age figure said is unbecoming of a 21st century homo sapiens sapiens.
Obed
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10/29/2014 11:19:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 11:17:16 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:14:35 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Jesus tells us how we can know. Jesus says to do what he says, and then we will know.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Pretending to know what some mythical bronze age figure said is unbecoming of a 21st century homo sapiens sapiens.

Just try it. What do you got to lose?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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10/29/2014 11:21:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 11:19:41 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:17:16 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:14:35 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Jesus tells us how we can know. Jesus says to do what he says, and then we will know.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Pretending to know what some mythical bronze age figure said is unbecoming of a 21st century homo sapiens sapiens.

Just try it. What do you got to lose?

The most rare commodity you have: time.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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10/30/2014 12:50:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

I'm enlightened to observe what your definition of true is, because religion is neither true nor false. Albeit, as it pertains to reality, and what comports with reality, many religious claims, mainly indoctrinated individuals who perpetuate these claims, contradict and even overtly assert verifiably contradictive statements in regards to reality.

Your latter question is great, and if manifested more frequently, this may resolve the abundance of dogmatic whims many religions permeate. How do we know our views are reasonable is spot on! We should be able to test them, compare them, scrutinize them further on a basis that provides predictable outcomes, and formulate a hypothesis that is rationally induced, rather than emotionally or unreasonable .
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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10/30/2014 7:01:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 7:28:23 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 5:51:06 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/29/2014 5:31:03 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/29/2014 4:31:29 PM, mortsdor wrote:
Because Clearly Existence is greater than nonexistence, and the Greatest Possible Thing must then exist!

Evidence that the greatest possible thing must exist.

Can you conceptualize/imagine something being most great?

Assuming you can..

if it were to exist only as an idea in the mind, then we would be able to imagine something that is greater.... (that is, the same thing, but existent in Reality!)

which would be a contradiction of it being the most great thing.

Therefore if you can imagine something most great, it MUST exist in reality

Obviously :P

http://www.iep.utm.edu...

1) Converse error.

The logic flows this way:
If something exists, it has greatness.

The argument uses the converse (which is not logical)
If something has greatness, then it exists.

2) Unsupported assumption

The argument assumes that existence is greater than non-existence.

3) Circular reasoning

The conclusion is built into the assumption.

Example:
1) Hogwarts is the greatest place on earth.
2) A place that exists is greater than one that doesn't.
3) Therefore, Hogwarts exists.

4) Same logic provides contradicting results

Gasking's Parody:
1) The creation of the universe is the greatest achievement imaginable.
2) The merit of an achievement consists of its intrinsic greatness and the ability of its creator.
3) The greater the handicap to the creator, the greater the achievement (would you be more impressed by Turner painting a beautiful landscape or a blind one-armed dwarf?)
4) The biggest handicap to a creator would be non-existence
5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the creation of an existing creator, we can conceive a greater being " namely, one who created everything while not existing.
6) Therefore, God does not exist.

Conclusion:
The argument is flawed, and is not evidence.

Hey, mind if I provide a defense for the ontological argument?

To understand the heck Anslem's ontological argument is saying in plain English, here are a couple of conversations:

Person A: "The highest mountain is Mount Rushmore. "

Person B: "But there is a higher mountain: Mount Everest."

Person A: "True, but there is no mountain higher mountain than Mount Rushmore."

Person B: "That is an illogical statement. If there is a higher mountain than Mount Rushmore, then Mount Rushmore is not the highest mountain. Mount Rushmore can't be the highest and yet not the highest mountain at the same time. Since your statement that Mount Rushmore is the highest mountain is incoherent, then it is false.

-

Atheist: "The greatest conceivable being only exists as a concept."

Theist: "Actually, there is a conceivably greater being: A being that exists both as a concept and in reality."

Atheist: "True, but the greatest conceivable being only exists as a concept."

Theist: "That is an illogical statement. If there is a conceivable being greater than the one that exists only as a concept, then the being that exists only as a concept is not the greatest conceivable being. The greatest conceivable being cannot be the greatest and yet not the greatest at the same time. Since your statement that the greatest conceivable being only exists as a concept is incoherent, then it is false.

You asked why is existence greater. God is a necessary being (first & last, eternal, etc.). If he wasn't and he was a mere possibility, then his existence is contingent on the existence of something else, and so forth until we reach an existence that necessarily exists and is not dependent on the existence of something else, that thing is greater. Basically, you are changing the definition of God into not-God.

Arguments don't beg the question, people beg the question. If there is a controversial or a questionable assumption or premise that you don't agree with, then simply state it and I shall provide support.

I am not sure why you are posting parodies and calling it a day. What do they have to do with argument? At best, this is an association fallacy:

1- Conservation of nature and eugenics had something in common: They were supported by the Nazis!
2- We reject eugenics.
3- We might as well reject everything the Nazis supported (especially the conservation of nature).
C: Therefore, we must reject conservation of nature and pollute as much as we want.

1- The ontological argument for God and the parody have something in common: They use modal logic!
2- We reject the parody.
3- We might as well reject all modal logic arguments (especially the one about God).
C: Therefore, we must reject the ontological argument for God.

This is not a logical rebuttal. You must point what exactly is wrong with the Anslem's argument. I can easily refute the parodies for instance:

Hogwarts is the greatest place on earth. Is incoherent. We can't get always get a greater Hogwart by having a larger building, more Quidditch arenas, better equipment, etc. However, the characteristics of God are not infinite, power and knowledge are simply maximized in which it is impossible of conceive of greater power or greater knowledge.
Furthermore, Hogwart, a magical education institution, is not necessary for the existence of the world. We can have a world that doesn't have Hogwart and the world will exist just fine.

The second parody is even more hilarious. I can point multiple problems replicated in the previous parody, it also includes fallacious appeal to common sense (Does a poor country winning the world cup make the achievement instinctively greater? I would like to see logical proof/man can invent a wooden cube or a space ship, does this mean that the wooden cube somehow represents the greatest achievement possible for humans?), but I'll settle with this glaring incoherence:

"We can conceive a greater being"namely, one who created everything while not existing".

Lol. :)
This actually reinforces the ontological argument. It is impossible to have a non-existent being which creates the world.

The ontological argument doesn't actually prove God exists, it takes permanent/willing Agnosticism, "God is imaginary", "Well, there is a chance that God might exist, but he doesn't" out of the question since these positions are incoherent. God is the first cause, and if the first cause is something else then God is impossible. End of the question.
Essentially, it turns the God debate into Theism vs strong Atheism, and strong Atheism isn't strong community (and dare I say, argument) wise.

Here is an ontological argument inspired by Platinga's version. GL refuting it.

1- If God exists, then he has necessary existence.
1a- Either God has necessary existence or he doesn"t.
1b- If God doesn"t have necessary existence, then he necessarily doesn"t.

2- Either God has necessary existence, or he necessarily doesn"t.
2a- If God doesn"t have necessary existence, then he necessarily doesn"t.
2b- If God necessarily doesn"t have necessary existence, then God necessarily doesn"t exist.

3- Either God has necessary existence, or he necessarily doesn"t exist.

4- It is not the case that God necessarily doesn"t exist.

5- Therefore God has necessary existence
5a- If God has necessary existence, then God exists.

C: Therefore God exists.
Emilrose
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10/30/2014 7:58:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Holy scripture is always important--in terms of seeking truth. For example, the Torah (Old Testament) has made a number of prophecies that have (in later years) came true. It's also the teachings of your religion that dictates to its truthfulness.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
mortsdor
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10/30/2014 8:06:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 7:58:55 AM, Emilrose wrote:
the Torah (Old Testament) has made a number of prophecies that have (in later years) came true.

Has the Torah made any claims that were later proven false?

Does it sanction/approve of horrible things? from murder to genocide? (hint: Yes)

If so, why grant it's claims any special legitimacy to describing Truth or Morality?
bornofgod
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10/30/2014 8:09:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

How many people do you know that love to be wrong?
Emilrose
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10/30/2014 9:01:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 8:06:59 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/30/2014 7:58:55 AM, Emilrose wrote:
the Torah (Old Testament) has made a number of prophecies that have (in later years) came true.

Has the Torah made any claims that were later proven false?

Does it sanction/approve of horrible things? from murder to genocide? (hint: Yes)

If so, why grant it's claims any special legitimacy to describing Truth or Morality?

I should've known I'd get a response like this.

Concerning "false claims"--I do not know of any. The Torah predicted a number of things including the exile of the Jews around the world for many years, Jewush persecution, Israel becoming a desolate land, then the return of Jews to Israel, the re-establishment of Israel, the introduction of the Shekel, the list goes on.

As for sanctioning of genocide--that isn't exactly the case. The Canaanites, Amelkites, Amorites, and so on, essentially made war with the Hebrew (such as disallowing them access to the land). The Canaanites in particular were deeply immoral as they regularly practiced child sacrifice--as worship to their G-d. And other things such as incest and pedophilia.

Things such as "truth and morality" are absolutely outlined in the Torah. The majority of moral teachings and laws now are in fact based on the Ten Commandments.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
mortsdor
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10/30/2014 11:51:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:01:13 AM, Emilrose wrote:
The Torah predicted a number of things including the exile of the Jews around the world for many years, Jewush persecution, Israel becoming a desolate land, then the return of Jews to Israel, the re-establishment of Israel, the introduction of the Shekel, the list goes on.

As the return to israel, that can easily be seen as a Self-fulfilling prophecy... and is thusly unsurprising.

As for sanctioning of genocide--that isn't exactly the case. The Canaanites, Amelkites, Amorites, and so on, essentially made war with the Hebrew (such as disallowing them access to the land).

the people of Jericho were the first people to be completely disposed of (man, woman and child) by God's chosen people correct?

What war did they start with the jews? evidence, or even biblical reference?

After the genocide of the people of Jericho is it surprising that other people's rejected the jews from gaining access to their lands?

The Canaanites in particular were deeply immoral as they regularly practiced child sacrifice--as worship to their G-d. And other things such as incest and pedophilia.

sure they did.

I wonder what the germans would be claiming about their attempts at genocide if they'd won WWII.

Things such as "truth and morality" are absolutely outlined in the Torah. The majority of moral teachings and laws now are in fact based on the Ten Commandments.

Sure, but even in the ten commandments story you can find evidence of the Torah's G-d's proclivity for murder and genocide, as well as ridiculous contradictions concerning his supposedly perfect nature.

For when Moses was upon the mountain did God not come to moses in his anger, saying that he would destroy the israelites down to every last man woman and child since some had worshipped the golden calf?

Then moses makes god "think twice", appealing to god's vanity, asking something to the effect of "what would the Egyptians think of you for leading the jews out of Egypt just to kill them in the mountains."

Through this appeal moses convinces God (which sounds absurd given god's supposedly omniscient nature) to think twice about "the evil" he was to do to his people... and instead decides to have moses go back down to order half the jews to kill the other half (children not precluded).

This god seems a petty, vicious fellow...
The fact that he also orders the Israelites to go to the land of Canaan and slaughter every last person therein is unsurprising.

- - - -

and there's lots of other morally detestable passages in the OT / Torah...

For example where it calls upon people to carry girls who've commited pre-marital sex to their father's doorstep to then murder them there by stoning.

also where god threatens that he will force people to cannibalize their loved ones if they don't worship him. LEV 26:29
bulproof
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10/30/2014 9:08:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:01:13 AM, Emilrose wrote:
As for sanctioning of genocide--that isn't exactly the case. The Canaanites, Amelkites, Amorites, and so on, essentially made war with the Hebrew (such as disallowing them access to the land). The Canaanites in particular were deeply immoral as they regularly practiced child sacrifice--as worship to their G-d. And other things such as incest and pedophilia.

Who says?
BTW Archeology is coming to the conclusion that the hebrews are the descendants of canaanites.
Emilrose
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10/30/2014 9:19:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:08:13 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/30/2014 9:01:13 AM, Emilrose wrote:
As for sanctioning of genocide--that isn't exactly the case. The Canaanites, Amelkites, Amorites, and so on, essentially made war with the Hebrew (such as disallowing them access to the land). The Canaanites in particular were deeply immoral as they regularly practiced child sacrifice--as worship to their G-d. And other things such as incest and pedophilia.

Who says?
BTW Archeology is coming to the conclusion that the hebrews are the descendants of canaanites.

Ahem, the Canaanite religion says it. The Canaanite G-d was named "Moloch", a "G-d" that specifically commands child sacrifice as a form of worship. There is also evidence for the incest and pedophilia.

As for this supposed archeology, the Hebrews existed as a distinct group at the same time as the Canaanites--so how exactly is that possible? Moreover the Hebrews originated from a separate land.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
bulproof
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10/30/2014 9:35:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:19:53 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 10/30/2014 9:08:13 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/30/2014 9:01:13 AM, Emilrose wrote:
As for sanctioning of genocide--that isn't exactly the case. The Canaanites, Amelkites, Amorites, and so on, essentially made war with the Hebrew (such as disallowing them access to the land). The Canaanites in particular were deeply immoral as they regularly practiced child sacrifice--as worship to their G-d. And other things such as incest and pedophilia.

Who says?
BTW Archeology is coming to the conclusion that the hebrews are the descendants of canaanites.

Ahem, the Canaanite religion says it. The Canaanite G-d was named "Moloch", a "G-d" that specifically commands child sacrifice as a form of worship. There is also evidence for the incest and pedophilia.
Once again, your claims are not evidence. Produce the evidence that supports your CLAIMS.
As for this supposed archeology, the Hebrews existed as a distinct group at the same time as the Canaanites--so how exactly is that possible? Moreover the Hebrews originated from a separate land.
Produce some evidence to support your CLAIMS. There is a total of ZERO evidence for the exodus.
Now produce evidence and not CLAIMS.
intellectuallyprimitive
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10/30/2014 9:47:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 7:58:55 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Holy scripture is always important--in terms of seeking truth. For example, the Torah (Old Testament) has made a number of prophecies that have (in later years) came true. It's also the teachings of your religion that dictates to its truthfulness.

Truth is that which comports with reality, and various claims within the old-testament have been demonstrably verified as spurious, the christian bible. Holy scripture contains fables written by men to convey morals and to also induce fear amongst people. The veracity of an understanding of reality was apparently not a motive for those that originally wrote scripture, and I'm aware that their have been multiple translations throughout history.

I'm uncertain if you are aware that science operates for many reasons but the formidable reason is for its ability, when utilized sufficiently, to harness a predictive power. Which prophecies do you refer to?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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10/30/2014 10:07:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 7:58:55 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Holy scripture is always important--in terms of seeking truth. For example, the Torah (Old Testament) has made a number of prophecies that have (in later years) came true. It's also the teachings of your religion that dictates to its truthfulness.

All "Holy Scripture" is are the writings of men that other men dubbed "Holy". Do you really not understand the origin of the Bible? Gather hundreds (possibly thousands) of writings, dump them in front of a council of about 300-men and ask them to pick which ones are "divinely inspired". After 42-years of arguing, disagreeing, forming coups against each other, excommunicating those who disagree with the majority and then finally demanding that everyone sign agreement (under threat of exile and excommunication), declare the cherry-picked works to be "The Word of God". And that's all you have. What's important in finding truth is how consistently it fits with reality. And scripture is a miserable failure in that regard.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Obed
Posts: 463
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10/30/2014 11:39:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/29/2014 11:21:57 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:19:41 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:17:16 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/29/2014 11:14:35 PM, Obed wrote:
At 10/29/2014 3:12:38 PM, joeparis123 wrote:
Can you know if your religious beliefs are true (pertains to reality)? If so, then how do you know that your views are true?

Jesus tells us how we can know. Jesus says to do what he says, and then we will know.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Pretending to know what some mythical bronze age figure said is unbecoming of a 21st century homo sapiens sapiens.

Just try it. What do you got to lose?

The most rare commodity you have: time.

You waste a lot of time...this would not be a waste.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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10/30/2014 11:39:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:19:53 PM, Emilrose wrote:
a "G-d" that specifically commands child sacrifice as a form of worship.

Not that I think you have good sources for that, but presuming it's true...

the command itself wouldn't be unreasonable from God though... right?

see Abraham/Isaac

Also, if the people who carry such things out should be damned to be murdered, and have their entire families/people murdered... Then I suppose that puts Abraham and his people in a different light too doesn't it?
mortsdor
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10/30/2014 11:43:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 9:19:53 PM, Emilrose wrote:
a "G-d" that specifically commands child sacrifice as a form of worship.

In case you didn't get it... God suggested he had the right to command such a sacrifice, and Abraham showed himself to willing to commit such sacrifice.

the fact that you condemn every last canaanite for carrying out what Abraham was willing to carry out, and essentially for the same reasons...
Your words pretty much equally condemn every last follower of Abraham as well.