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God is the biggest abortionist ever

Freeman
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4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

If God exists, it would seem that he has no problems whatsoever with abortion. After all, he is the genius architect that devised this whole system.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Xer
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4/23/2010 8:30:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

So only 30% of conceptions end with live birth?

If God exists, it would seem that he has no problems whatsoever with abortion. After all, he is the genius architect that devised this whole system.

inb4 Original Sin.
Freeman
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4/23/2010 8:39:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:30:05 PM, Nags wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

So only 30% of conceptions end with live birth?

Ugh.. let me do the math.

100 pregnancies/2 =50

50 pregnancies

50 multiplied by 0.8 = 40

No, 40 percent of pregnancies end in a live birth.

If God exists, it would seem that he has no problems whatsoever with abortion. After all, he is the genius architect that devised this whole system.

inb4 Original Sin.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Xer
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4/23/2010 8:42:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:39:57 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:30:05 PM, Nags wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

So only 30% of conceptions end with live birth?

Ugh.. let me do the math.

100 pregnancies/2 =50

50 pregnancies

50 multiplied by 0.8 = 40

No, 40 percent of pregnancies end in a live birth.

Where are you getting these numbers?

"Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage."

50+20=70
100-70=30
30%
mongoose
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4/23/2010 8:44:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nags, you are applying them at the same time. The other method involves surviving each one separately. It depends on what was meant by the statistic.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Freeman
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4/23/2010 8:53:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:42:28 PM, Nags wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:39:57 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:30:05 PM, Nags wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

So only 30% of conceptions end with live birth?

Ugh.. let me do the math.

100 pregnancies/2 =50

50 pregnancies

50 multiplied by 0.8 = 40

No, 40 percent of pregnancies end in a live birth.

Where are you getting these numbers?

Letter To A Christian Nation- Sam Harris (Good enough for me)

I was reading some blog and they had a quote from the book.

"Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage."

50+20=70
100-70=30
30%

No, you're doing the math wrong.

100 (unknown pregnancies)/2 =50

50 of those pregnancies end up getting recognized by the mother and then they become known pregnancies.

50 known pregnancies multiplied by 0.8 = 40

Therefore the number is 40%
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Anarcho
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4/23/2010 8:57:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

Yeah I mean in the Qur'an it calls fetuses, parasites. I know it is not exactly proof but not calling it a baby (living thing) and a parasite seems like reasoning for abortion but that's just me.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
Freeman
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4/23/2010 9:00:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:51:10 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
...Is this supposed to be an argument for something?

No, not really.

I guess it could be used as an argument against 'intelligent design'.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
nickthengineer
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4/23/2010 9:05:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

If God exists, it would seem that he has no problems whatsoever with abortion. After all, he is the genius architect that devised this whole system.

God made everything good and perfect in its original state. The fall of man introduced all the bad things in the world. You obviously don't believe any of that I'm sure, which is neither here nor there. If we are talking about Christianity for the moment, then let's at least acknowledge everything the Bible actually claims. Miscarriages, other birth problems, and any problem ever is the result of sin, not God's design.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
nickthengineer
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4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
popculturepooka
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4/23/2010 9:12:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

And that whole "Thou shall not murder" thing.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
nickthengineer
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4/23/2010 9:22:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:12:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

And that whole "Thou shall not murder" thing.

I'm sure you recognize the difference between the words "murder" and "kill" in English. Same thing in Hebrew (so I'm told by people who can read it). Thou shalt not MURDER. A different word was used when the judges and rulers of Israel were given instructions on what crimes to punish by putting the guilty to death, the same word that was used to describe God Himself striking someone dead.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
Freeman
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4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
mongeese
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4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.
popculturepooka
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4/23/2010 9:30:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:22:20 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:12:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

And that whole "Thou shall not murder" thing.

I'm sure you recognize the difference between the words "murder" and "kill" in English. Same thing in Hebrew (so I'm told by people who can read it). Thou shalt not MURDER. A different word was used when the judges and rulers of Israel were given instructions on what crimes to punish by putting the guilty to death, the same word that was used to describe God Himself striking someone dead.

I wasn't arguing against you....lol I was mentioning it in support of the point that, if the fetus is a person, then it would be wrong to murder that person. So then the bible would be implicitly against abortion.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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4/23/2010 9:31:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

I knew this was coming. You bolded the wrong part. Read closely:

IF THERE IS NO SERIOUS INJURY: the offender must be fined

BUT IF THERE IS SERIOUS INJURY: take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

*And if the serious injury is death, then logically take life for life. I'm surprised you actually typed all the verses but still ignored the last part.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
nickthengineer
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4/23/2010 9:32:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:30:33 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:20 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:12:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

And that whole "Thou shall not murder" thing.

I'm sure you recognize the difference between the words "murder" and "kill" in English. Same thing in Hebrew (so I'm told by people who can read it). Thou shalt not MURDER. A different word was used when the judges and rulers of Israel were given instructions on what crimes to punish by putting the guilty to death, the same word that was used to describe God Himself striking someone dead.

I wasn't arguing against you....lol I was mentioning it in support of the point that, if the fetus is a person, then it would be wrong to murder that person. So then the bible would be implicitly against abortion.

Ooooh ok gotcha. That's what I was citing the verses in support of.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/23/2010 9:41:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Yes, "serious injury" to the mother... You guys need to read it more closely. Do you honestly think you've read it any more closely than Maimonides?

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Causing a miscarriage, according to the verse, is acceptable as long as the mother isn't seriously injured.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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4/23/2010 9:49:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:41:03 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Yes, "serious injury" to the mother... You guys need to read it more closely. Do you honestly think you've read it any more closely than Maimonides?

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Causing a miscarriage, according to the verse, is acceptable as long as the mother isn't seriously injured.

...and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury...

No serious injury to who? Sounds to me like it was applying to the unborn child. Regardless, how could you look a woman in the eyes after she has just been punched in the stomach and miscarried and tell her that no serious harm was done to her? (KJV and others says "harm" for reference). It takes a cruel person to say such a thing, but I would guess this fits your obvious misconception of God anyway.

I'm out for the night folks.
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Freeman
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4/23/2010 9:56:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:49:50 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:41:03 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Yes, "serious injury" to the mother... You guys need to read it more closely. Do you honestly think you've read it any more closely than Maimonides?

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Causing a miscarriage, according to the verse, is acceptable as long as the mother isn't seriously injured.

...and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury...

Sounds to me like it was applying to the unborn child.

It's logically impossible for that interpretation to be correct. According to the verse, it is possible to cause a woman to have a miscarriage and still not cause 'serious harm'. Therefore, the verse clearly doesn't identify the death of the fetus as being inherently significant.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Ren
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4/23/2010 11:56:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:56:51 PM, Freeman wrote:
It's logically impossible for that interpretation to be correct. According to the verse, it is possible to cause a woman to have a miscarriage and still not cause 'serious harm'. Therefore, the verse clearly doesn't identify the death of the fetus as being inherently significant.

This is the verse as I prefer to have it written:

"22If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,"

I think it comes out much clearer this way. Now, let's try to have an open mind and acknowledge that "mischief" means "harm." The dictionary's 4th definition of mischief is as follows:

"4. Damage, destruction, or injury caused by a specific person or thing: "

Strive does in fact mean fighting, given the second definition of the word:

"2. To struggle or fight forcefully; contend:"

Thus, if you're fighting and hit some pregnant girl (clearly, drunk at a wedding or something), and she ends up giving birth, then you're at the mercy of her husband, and you will be fined in accordance to law. On the other hand, if she miscarries, then you will die. In fact, whatever defect the baby comes out with, will have to be given to you.

So, if the kid comes out with Down's Syndrome, then a bunch of lumberjacks come and beat you retarded.

Alternately,

I don't see how this verse is directly relevant to abortion. What it *does* prove is that God values prenatal children, and that He expects that when things happen to these children as a result of other people, those people are punished.
GeoLaureate8
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4/24/2010 12:02:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:51:10 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
...Is this supposed to be an argument for something?

I think his point is that Christians are anti-abortion, yet God does abortions all the time.
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Zetsubou
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4/24/2010 12:15:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

Fail, see Onan.

+With the nature of Islam, use common sense please.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/24/2010 12:31:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Seriously?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/24/2010 12:33:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:41:03 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Yes, "serious injury" to the mother... You guys need to read it more closely. Do you honestly think you've read it any more closely than Maimonides?

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Causing a miscarriage, according to the verse, is acceptable as long as the mother isn't seriously injured.

Premature and miscarriage are not the same word.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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4/24/2010 8:45:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 9:56:51 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:49:50 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:41:03 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:29:51 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:22:59 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 4/23/2010 9:11:00 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 4/23/2010 8:29:33 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think the Bible, Qur'an, etc themselves are against abortion, but rather the majority of the people who follow them.

The closest thing is where God declares that a person who causes the death of an unborn child should be punished by death (Exodus 21:22-24). That's pretty clear if you ask me.

You don't even know the verse you're quoting.

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Based on Maimonides' interpretation of this verse, many Jewish Scholars have come to conclude that abortion is not wrong.

Yes, "serious injury" to the mother... You guys need to read it more closely. Do you honestly think you've read it any more closely than Maimonides?

Exodus 21:22-24 (New International Version)

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Causing a miscarriage, according to the verse, is acceptable as long as the mother isn't seriously injured.

...and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury...

Sounds to me like it was applying to the unborn child.

It's logically impossible for that interpretation to be correct. According to the verse, it is possible to cause a woman to have a miscarriage and still not cause 'serious harm'. Therefore, the verse clearly doesn't identify the death of the fetus as being inherently significant.

Yes C_N has it right. Just because she gives birth prematurely the baby could still be fine if it was close enough to the due date. But if the baby comes out with damage done or dies, punishment ensues that is equal to the injury caused to it.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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4/26/2010 8:07:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/23/2010 8:22:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
Fifty percent of all conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually before the pregnant women even realizes she is pregnant. And another twenty percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

If God exists, it would seem that he has no problems whatsoever with abortion. After all, he is the genius architect that devised this whole system.

also 100% of people who are already born die. some die at a later stage in there life than others but this seems to bother few. You are not garranteed by God that you will live to see tomarrow. you are garanteed you will live untill the next hour. the next minite. every second of everyday is a gift.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/26/2010 8:12:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
For those who believe in God; The "Creator"

Before the creation there was utter perfection. All was perfect. All was Good.

after... there was hell... and there were dead babies.

why would a perfect God go and screw up a perfect existence?

would he?

why not leave it at just perfection?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."