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Bleeding-Heart Liberal

PoeJoe
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4/24/2010 11:04:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
When most people use the phrase "bleeding-heart liberal," they usually mean it as a pejorative: "if those scumbag bleeding-heart liberals had their way, we would be giving all our money to those third world leeches!"

And I never understood that. To me, a bleeding-heart liberal is something to aspire to. It means ultimate compassion and empathy. It means giving a damn about fellow human beings. It means vehemently fighting injustice against all odds. And it's also romantic: a standing protest in front of a forest, screaming 'no!' to the big corporations.

But this thread is not about aesthetics.

It recently occurred to me that super religious, super Christian moralists tend to be very conservative--and that seems totally backwards to me. I mean, if you really followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, you'd think you'd be a... well, a bleeding-heart liberal. I mean, just think about it...

Love my neighbor? Sure, I'll give up some of my paycheck to help the less fortunate.

I shall not kill? Okay, imperialism is bad. Let's end America's war and promote world peace.

I should preserve creation? Of course I'll join your Green Peace march!

I mean, I don't understand it. Why do super Christians tend to be so conservative? It would seem to me that if a Christian were to be consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ, said Christian should be compassionate, he should have empathy, and he should look after those less fortunate than he. In summary, well... they should be bleeding-heart liberals.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/25/2010 12:05:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Bleeding heart liberal refers to a parody, (well actually they do exist) of a liberal.

You know the type, money is evil so lets tax people who have the audacity to succeed, crime can be solved by building youth centres and teaching police officers how to rap, the borders should be flung open, people should be paid not to work, affirmative action is 'good racism', white people must feel guilty for everything etc etc.

But of course you are right, true Christians should be ultra-absurdly-liberal. I guess that religion though it may change social norms at first, it eventually becomes the social norm, merges with the status quo, because a primary purpose of religion is not to solved philosophical problems... but to socialise.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 8:44:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/25/2010 12:05:57 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Bleeding heart liberal refers to a parody

Which sucks. I'm saying I would take pride in being called one.

Like I said, being called a bleeding-heart liberal is like being told you have ultimate compassion.

But of course you are right, true Christians should be ultra-absurdly-liberal. I guess that religion though it may change social norms at first, it eventually becomes the social norm, merges with the status quo, because a primary purpose of religion is not to solved philosophical problems... but to socialise.

Why do you think that is? It's not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely interested.

God is supposed to be objective, right? So, why do Christians tend to believe the polar opposite of Jesus' teachings? Why are they fitting in with social norms?

In fact, I'd even dispute that Christians are going with the flow. I mean, Christians dominate this society. They get to decide what the standard is for compassion.

Maybe you'll say that time has changed and science has become more prevalent, but that has nothing to do with Christians not acting like Jesus and not giving to those less fortunate, and not preserving the environment, and not promoting world peace.

I just don't understand.

Christians should be natural ally in terms of morality, but they're the total opposite. In fact, I suspect Jesus, if he lived today, would be a super-super-left liberal.
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PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 8:44:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 8:44:22 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
Christians should be my natural ally in terms of morality, but they're the total opposite.

Fix.
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mattrodstrom
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4/26/2010 8:50:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
would Jesus steal people's stuff to redistribute it?

would he throw them in jail if they wouldn't give?

i would steal in order to feed people... but I wouldn't steal for people to have more than basic needs.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 8:53:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 8:50:45 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
would Jesus steal people's stuff to redistribute it?

Yes.

would he throw them in jail if they wouldn't give?

Not jail. But he would say the rich who don't give to the less fortunate are being extremely immoral.

i would steal in order to feed people... but I wouldn't steal for people to have more than basic needs.

Fifty-five people were slaughtered in Darfur yesterday. What are you doing about it?
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/26/2010 8:55:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You're right, PoeJoe. Christians are not supposed to be capitalists. They're hypocritical... just like with everything else. Shocker. I mean what about all of the backwards redneck "Christians" calling for the death penalty? Um, I'm pretty sure Jesus said to turn the other cheek. Hah. Anyway there are literally hundreds of Bible verses about helping the poor, helping the sick, not idolizing money, not caring about money over good will, etc. It is absolutely hysterical to watch Christians try to defend capitalism; Jesus clearly said (Matthew 25, I believe) that whenever you fail to give food to the poor, shelter to the homeless, etc. that you are directly turning your back on HIM. So Christian capitalists... what gives?

Also, the answer cannot be, "Well Jesus promotes generosity but not the LAW calling for us to give charity." Orly? Then howcome Christians are pro anti-abortion laws? If this was just about following the word of God on your own and not having the law dictate morality for you, then they would be pro-choice. Regardless, whatever answer they give would be zZzZz just trying desperately to defend their hypocritical views. The Bible blatantly says to sell all of your possessions and give them to the poor. Good ol' Pat Roberton is worth 459 billion dollars. Haha.
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PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 8:56:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 8:53:48 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
would he throw them in jail if they wouldn't give?

Not jail. But he would say the rich who don't give to the less fortunate are being extremely immoral.

And by all means, an eternity in hell is much worse than any punishment here on Earth.
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mattrodstrom
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4/26/2010 9:02:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 8:53:48 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 4/26/2010 8:50:45 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
would Jesus steal people's stuff to redistribute it?

Yes.

would he throw them in jail if they wouldn't give?

Not jail. But he would say the rich who don't give to the less fortunate are being extremely immoral.

i would steal in order to feed people... but I wouldn't steal for people to have more than basic needs.

Fifty-five people were slaughtered in Darfur yesterday. What are you doing about it?

I don't know those people... it's a sad fact that i care less for them... I care... but less.

I would like my government to put political pressure, and give political/(some financial) support to the relevant Darfurian factions... and would probably prefer to buy their products to support some kind of stability bringing infrastructure... but I have other concerns I'm more aware of...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 8:55:54 AM, theLwerd wrote:
You're right, PoeJoe. Christians are not supposed to be capitalists. They're hypocritical... just like with everything else. Shocker. I mean what about all of the backwards redneck "Christians" calling for the death penalty? Um, I'm pretty sure Jesus said to turn the other cheek. Hah. Anyway there are literally hundreds of Bible verses about helping the poor, helping the sick, not idolizing money, not caring about money over good will, etc. It is absolutely hysterical to watch Christians try to defend capitalism; Jesus clearly said (Matthew 25, I believe) that whenever you fail to give food to the poor, shelter to the homeless, etc. that you are directly turning your back on HIM. So Christian capitalists... what gives?

Also, the answer cannot be, "Well Jesus promotes generosity but not the LAW calling for us to give charity." Orly? Then howcome Christians are pro anti-abortion laws? If this was just about following the word of God on your own and not having the law dictate morality for you, then they would be pro-choice. Regardless, whatever answer they give would be zZzZz just trying desperately to defend their hypocritical views. The Bible blatantly says to sell all of your possessions and give them to the poor. Good ol' Pat Roberton is worth 459 billion dollars. Haha.

free will... sin as a choice.

Taxes = stealing...

god says: "THOU SHALT NOT STEAL"

stealing to make others avoid sinning is sinning yourself aint it?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 9:12:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/26/2010 8:55:54 AM, theLwerd wrote:
You're right, PoeJoe. Christians are not supposed to be capitalists. They're hypocritical... just like with everything else. Shocker. I mean what about all of the backwards redneck "Christians" calling for the death penalty? Um, I'm pretty sure Jesus said to turn the other cheek. Hah. Anyway there are literally hundreds of Bible verses about helping the poor, helping the sick, not idolizing money, not caring about money over good will, etc. It is absolutely hysterical to watch Christians try to defend capitalism; Jesus clearly said (Matthew 25, I believe) that whenever you fail to give food to the poor, shelter to the homeless, etc. that you are directly turning your back on HIM. So Christian capitalists... what gives?

Also, the answer cannot be, "Well Jesus promotes generosity but not the LAW calling for us to give charity." Orly? Then howcome Christians are pro anti-abortion laws? If this was just about following the word of God on your own and not having the law dictate morality for you, then they would be pro-choice. Regardless, whatever answer they give would be zZzZz just trying desperately to defend their hypocritical views. The Bible blatantly says to sell all of your possessions and give them to the poor. Good ol' Pat Roberton is worth 459 billion dollars. Haha.

free will... sin as a choice.

A pretty sh1tty choice.

Taxes = stealing...

god says: "THOU SHALT NOT STEAL"

Nu uh. You're kicking it Old Testament. Jesus' teachings are more relevant to Christians.

stealing to make others avoid sinning is sinning yourself aint it?

Money is inherently evil. You're helping rich people.
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PoeJoe
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4/26/2010 9:14:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 9:12:17 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
stealing to make others avoid sinning is sinning yourself aint it?

Money is inherently evil. You're helping rich people.

Besides, you're following God's/Jesus' will.

He wants rich people to give up their money to the less fortunate. You're acting as an agent of God.
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Danielle
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4/26/2010 9:21:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:

free will... sin as a choice.

This doesn't even tough my point about anti-abortion laws. If that were true, then why are they vehemently trying to repeal Roe v. Wade?

god says: "THOU SHALT NOT STEAL"

First, taxes are not stealing if you adhere to the Social Contract. Second, you're right - the Bible also says not to take any money by force, however, that still provides the abortion discrepancy. God also says THOU SHALL NOT KILL but apparently the death penalty is a-ok.

stealing to make others avoid sinning is sinning yourself aint it?

I don't adhere to Christianity so I don't consider anything I do a "sin" lol just to be clear. But sure, I'll go with that. It still doesn't change the fact that Christian capitalists are sinning though. I don't think PJ's point was to justify liberal policies but rather a question as to why Christians didn't adhere to the teachings they uphold.

Matthew 5:42 --> Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Or better yet...

Exodus 22:25 --> If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest.

Leviticus also preaches at length about not charging interest. Yet I'm pretty sure tons of Christian lenders charge interest. So, the question is why Christians feel they can pick and choose about what parts of the Bible they uphold and which they don't. Answer? Whatever's most convenient for them. Wut fakes. You can say my support of taxes = me supporting theft but I'm not the one calling myself a Christian :)
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Danielle
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4/26/2010 9:22:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 9:21:37 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:

free will... sin as a choice.

This doesn't even touch my point about anti-abortion laws.
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DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/4/2010 8:10:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 9:22:02 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/26/2010 9:21:37 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/26/2010 9:04:57 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:

free will... sin as a choice.

This doesn't even touch my point about anti-abortion laws.

*reading Lweirds signature* " Hark! Fair Juliette speaks! "
The Cross.. the Cross.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/4/2010 10:25:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/24/2010 11:04:52 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
When most people use the phrase "bleeding-heart liberal," they usually mean it as a pejorative: "if those scumbag bleeding-heart liberals had their way, we would be giving all our money to those third world leeches!"

And I never understood that. To me, a bleeding-heart liberal is something to aspire to. It means ultimate compassion and empathy. It means giving a damn about fellow human beings. It means vehemently fighting injustice against all odds. And it's also romantic: a standing protest in front of a forest, screaming 'no!' to the big corporations.

But this thread is not about aesthetics.

It recently occurred to me that super religious, super Christian moralists tend to be very conservative--and that seems totally backwards to me. I mean, if you really followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, you'd think you'd be a... well, a bleeding-heart liberal. I mean, just think about it...

Love my neighbor? Sure, I'll give up some of my paycheck to help the less fortunate.

I shall not kill? Okay, imperialism is bad. Let's end America's war and promote world peace.

I should preserve creation? Of course I'll join your Green Peace march!

I mean, I don't understand it. Why do super Christians tend to be so conservative? It would seem to me that if a Christian were to be consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ, said Christian should be compassionate, he should have empathy, and he should look after those less fortunate than he. In summary, well... they should be bleeding-heart liberals.

Religion is like a mirror; it is a reflection of the person that that adheres to it. People find the person they want to be, and they make their religion conform to that conception.

To a liberal Jesus may look like this: http://www.morethings.com...
or maybe this: http://msp162.photobucket.com...

To a libertarian/conservative Jesus may look like this: http://communicationtopics.com... or maybe this: http://media.photobucket.com...

To be honest, I think the liberal conception is far more plausible.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/4/2010 10:56:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Technically, Christians are supposed to be CHARITABLE.

They are supposed to obey taxes of course, but I don't see anything in the books that says they have to advocate them.

However, they also aren't supposed to really be worldly enough to bother voting against them. And Jesus says give away ALL your money to the poor. Not a tithe to the church. 100 percent to the poor. (being asset heavy doesn't count either, sell ALL possessions. ) So while Christians needn't support taxes, Christians also do not belong in suits.

(Or surviving, really, since they'll kinda starve to death after obeying Jesus).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.