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'Militance'

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Loud Mouthed Western Folk

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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10/31/2014 3:42:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:35:39 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Stalin/Mao comment in 3... 2... 1...

Well if that's what you mean by Militant Atheist then I very much object to being called one!

I'd rather religion go away... but wouldn't use Force to do so.

Those very example makes me object to labeling Atheists who would see religion disappear as being "Militant" about it... Before I was fine with the name (as who really cares about the name of itself?) but if that's what people mean when they say "militant atheist" then calling those like myself Militant is prepostrous :P

I'd see religion disappear, but wouldn't send anyone to the Gulag for having silly beliefs.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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10/31/2014 4:11:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:42:45 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:35:39 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Stalin/Mao comment in 3... 2... 1...

Well if that's what you mean by Militant Atheist then I very much object to being called one!

I'd rather religion go away... but wouldn't use Force to do so.

Those very example makes me object to labeling Atheists who would see religion disappear as being "Militant" about it... Before I was fine with the name (as who really cares about the name of itself?) but if that's what people mean when they say "militant atheist" then calling those like myself Militant is prepostrous :P

I'd see religion disappear, but wouldn't send anyone to the Gulag for having silly beliefs.

That isn't my idea of militant atheism, either. I was just flippantly voicing my expectation of one of the resident theists to bring up Stalin and/or Mao very soon.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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10/31/2014 4:32:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:11:56 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:42:45 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:35:39 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Stalin/Mao comment in 3... 2... 1...

Well if that's what you mean by Militant Atheist then I very much object to being called one!

I'd rather religion go away... but wouldn't use Force to do so.

Those very example makes me object to labeling Atheists who would see religion disappear as being "Militant" about it... Before I was fine with the name (as who really cares about the name of itself?) but if that's what people mean when they say "militant atheist" then calling those like myself Militant is prepostrous :P

I'd see religion disappear, but wouldn't send anyone to the Gulag for having silly beliefs.

That isn't my idea of militant atheism, either. I was just flippantly voicing my expectation of one of the resident theists to bring up Stalin and/or Mao very soon.

Given the flippant nature of the original post they'd be justified.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, thousands of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/31/2014 5:16:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Loud Mouthed Western Folk

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

You totally forgot the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, etc. that Christians stole from the natives of those lands to build their false gods on and worship their false deities ( imaginary gods from reading words in books ).
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/31/2014 5:53:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:32:01 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:11:56 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:42:45 PM, mortsdor wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:35:39 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Stalin/Mao comment in 3... 2... 1...

Well if that's what you mean by Militant Atheist then I very much object to being called one!

I'd rather religion go away... but wouldn't use Force to do so.

Those very example makes me object to labeling Atheists who would see religion disappear as being "Militant" about it... Before I was fine with the name (as who really cares about the name of itself?) but if that's what people mean when they say "militant atheist" then calling those like myself Militant is prepostrous :P

I'd see religion disappear, but wouldn't send anyone to the Gulag for having silly beliefs.

That isn't my idea of militant atheism, either. I was just flippantly voicing my expectation of one of the resident theists to bring up Stalin and/or Mao very soon.

Given the flippant nature of the original post they'd be justified.

I didn't think it was that flippant... I was noting the disparity in what is commonly regarded as militancy in religions and what is thrown around in the forums regarding atheists, which I myself have been on the receiving end of many a time.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/1/2014 8:19:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.

The reason why most christians won't be as militant, is because they live in a democracy where we have to get along while making compromises yet respecting certain aspects of ones beliefs. We can decide to not draw the prophet Muhammed in a cartoon, but we will not respect the muslim's demand for a theocracy to allow Sharia. Christians will be able to practice their religion, but they cannot make the church the official deciding authority over all. If a Muslim lived in a theocracy, he or she would be militant. Same with a Christian since this can allow slavery, treating women like cattle and killing non believers (or practicers of witchcraft)
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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11/1/2014 11:27:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 8:19:05 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.

The reason why most christians won't be as militant, is because they live in a democracy where we have to get along while making compromises yet respecting certain aspects of ones beliefs. We can decide to not draw the prophet Muhammed in a cartoon, but we will not respect the muslim's demand for a theocracy to allow Sharia. Christians will be able to practice their religion, but they cannot make the church the official deciding authority over all. If a Muslim lived in a theocracy, he or she would be militant. Same with a Christian since this can allow slavery, treating women like cattle and killing non believers (or practicers of witchcraft)

If they followed the Bible, it actually would be a nation where human rights are respected. The Old Covenant was one that gave humans what they deserve. It was merciless, but we deserved no better. But now we are under the New Covenant, which is one of mercy and grace. Yes, under the New Covenant wives are to submit to their husbands. The Bible spent three verses elaborating on this. However, under the New Covenant husbands are to treat their wives well, love them, and not be hard on them. The Bible spent nine verses elaborating on this point. And under the New Covenant, I seriously doubt that God would condone murdering witchcraft people or anybody else for that matter.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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11/1/2014 11:45:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

Fixed.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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11/1/2014 11:47:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 3:35:39 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Stalin/Mao comment in 3... 2... 1...

Oh, so they don't count? Interesting. I'll decide which religious massacres count then.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/1/2014 11:51:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 11:27:48 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 8:19:05 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.

The reason why most christians won't be as militant, is because they live in a democracy where we have to get along while making compromises yet respecting certain aspects of ones beliefs. We can decide to not draw the prophet Muhammed in a cartoon, but we will not respect the muslim's demand for a theocracy to allow Sharia. Christians will be able to practice their religion, but they cannot make the church the official deciding authority over all. If a Muslim lived in a theocracy, he or she would be militant. Same with a Christian since this can allow slavery, treating women like cattle and killing non believers (or practicers of witchcraft)

If they followed the Bible, it actually would be a nation where human rights are respected. The Old Covenant was one that gave humans what they deserve. It was merciless, but we deserved no better. But now we are under the New Covenant, which is one of mercy and grace. Yes, under the New Covenant wives are to submit to their husbands. The Bible spent three verses elaborating on this. However, under the New Covenant husbands are to treat their wives well, love them, and not be hard on them. The Bible spent nine verses elaborating on this point. And under the New Covenant, I seriously doubt that God would condone murdering witchcraft people or anybody else for that matter.

Psalms 137:9 states people should be happy to kill the babies of the Babylonians.

New Covenant still states by the disciples that women should not speak in church. You can say it was because women at that time gossiped, but people use that verse to justify keeping women silent. Militants use "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" as a means to justify murder. No matter how you twist it, it can still be used to justify killing. Army of God is one of the groups that uses this to justify bombing abortion clinics and killing abortion doctors. The reality is that a majority of simple Christians haven't fully looked into the bible, yet the common atheist has. Not saying this leads to atheism, but it's pretty embarrassing when an atheist knows more of the holy book that the christian goes by.
neutral
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11/1/2014 11:52:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

How would you not see a call of genocide against a religion as ... militant?

"We can't live on the same planet as them and I'm glad because I don't want to. I don't want to breathe the same air as these psychopaths and murders [sic] and rapists and torturers and child abusers. It's them or me. I'm very happy about this because I know it will be them. It's a duty and a responsibility to defeat them. But it's also a pleasure. I don't regard it as a grim task at all."

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org...

That would be Chris Hitchen's brother. Its pretty extreme.

There is also the 'New Atheist' movement.

"New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

That is all well and good until you start seeing the 'rational' argumentation degenerate into twisted irrationality like Hitchens does above, with Harris is tow, or Dawkins simply dismissing religion as a mental health issue - while advocating 'mild' pedophilia.

It was not all that long ago that 'respectable' people made these kinds of statements against Jews. We correctly recognize this thinking aimed at Jews as horrific bigotry and hatred. But if we replace the word 'Jew' with the word 'religion' ... suddenly its 'rational'?

The flippancy here is the keen ability of atheists to point out the extremist elements in the midst of other people's religion, but the utter failure to acknowledge the extremism within their own ranks.

The real danger here though isn't just the failure to acknowledge the extremism, is the unfettered belief that atheism cannot be effected like other ideological view points. It is precisely this belief that makes it highly likely that atheism can and will be hijacked - and Hitchens would be exhibit A in proof of that thesis.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,075
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11/1/2014 12:07:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 11:51:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/1/2014 11:27:48 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 8:19:05 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.

The reason why most christians won't be as militant, is because they live in a democracy where we have to get along while making compromises yet respecting certain aspects of ones beliefs. We can decide to not draw the prophet Muhammed in a cartoon, but we will not respect the muslim's demand for a theocracy to allow Sharia. Christians will be able to practice their religion, but they cannot make the church the official deciding authority over all. If a Muslim lived in a theocracy, he or she would be militant. Same with a Christian since this can allow slavery, treating women like cattle and killing non believers (or practicers of witchcraft)

If they followed the Bible, it actually would be a nation where human rights are respected. The Old Covenant was one that gave humans what they deserve. It was merciless, but we deserved no better. But now we are under the New Covenant, which is one of mercy and grace. Yes, under the New Covenant wives are to submit to their husbands. The Bible spent three verses elaborating on this. However, under the New Covenant husbands are to treat their wives well, love them, and not be hard on them. The Bible spent nine verses elaborating on this point. And under the New Covenant, I seriously doubt that God would condone murdering witchcraft people or anybody else for that matter.

Psalms 137:9 states people should be happy to kill the babies of the Babylonians.

New Covenant still states by the disciples that women should not speak in church. You can say it was because women at that time gossiped, but people use that verse to justify keeping women silent. Militants use "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" as a means to justify murder. No matter how you twist it, it can still be used to justify killing. Army of God is one of the groups that uses this to justify bombing abortion clinics and killing abortion doctors. The reality is that a majority of simple Christians haven't fully looked into the bible, yet the common atheist has. Not saying this leads to atheism, but it's pretty embarrassing when an atheist knows more of the holy book that the christian goes by.

"I come not to bring peace but a sword" did not mean Jesus wanted His disciples to go out and kill nonbelievers. That is not even close to what Jesus meant. He meant that His disciples would often have to choose between the approval of their family/friends and their walk with God.
It is true, by the way, that Paul commanded women to be silent in church. What exactly does that mean, exactly? Well, it means that men are the ones to hold authority in the church. Old fashioned, but it is still true.
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ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/1/2014 2:03:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:07:48 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 11:51:16 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/1/2014 11:27:48 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 8:19:05 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:09:51 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 11:07:27 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 10/31/2014 6:34:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 5:52:17 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:59:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:53:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 10/31/2014 3:27:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
'Militant Atheism' is a term that I am finding rather annoying. I am vocal and I am aggressive in attacking religion and God's existence, as well as the social implications. But me, militant?

Here are my conceptions of what 'Militant' appears to be perceived amongst belief systems:

Militant Christians: Crusades, Forced Missionary's in East Asia and Africa.
Militant Jews: Israelis
Militant Muslims: ISIS, Theocratic Governments (Saudi, Pakistan, etc)
Militant Atheists: Several thousand people during the French Revolution, millions of people during the Soviet crackdowns on religion, etc.

Does anybody else see the disparity? Perhaps take note of the number of deaths and executions caused by each group and you will see where I am coming from.

My mistake. Fixed.

If that's your perception of militant atheism, then I simply do not see how even the most aggressive of vocalists, including Hitchens etc. would be regarded as 'Militant'. It seems to be a term that is thrown around.... Flippantly.

Okay, I agree. At the same time, however, Conservative Christians cannot be called militant Christians.

Only if they are willing to use bad actions. An idea of extremist Christian is the Christian who decapitated a guy because he was accused of practicing witchcraft.

Okay, I can agree with that guy being called militant.

The reason why most christians won't be as militant, is because they live in a democracy where we have to get along while making compromises yet respecting certain aspects of ones beliefs. We can decide to not draw the prophet Muhammed in a cartoon, but we will not respect the muslim's demand for a theocracy to allow Sharia. Christians will be able to practice their religion, but they cannot make the church the official deciding authority over all. If a Muslim lived in a theocracy, he or she would be militant. Same with a Christian since this can allow slavery, treating women like cattle and killing non believers (or practicers of witchcraft)

If they followed the Bible, it actually would be a nation where human rights are respected. The Old Covenant was one that gave humans what they deserve. It was merciless, but we deserved no better. But now we are under the New Covenant, which is one of mercy and grace. Yes, under the New Covenant wives are to submit to their husbands. The Bible spent three verses elaborating on this. However, under the New Covenant husbands are to treat their wives well, love them, and not be hard on them. The Bible spent nine verses elaborating on this point. And under the New Covenant, I seriously doubt that God would condone murdering witchcraft people or anybody else for that matter.

Psalms 137:9 states people should be happy to kill the babies of the Babylonians.

New Covenant still states by the disciples that women should not speak in church. You can say it was because women at that time gossiped, but people use that verse to justify keeping women silent. Militants use "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" as a means to justify murder. No matter how you twist it, it can still be used to justify killing. Army of God is one of the groups that uses this to justify bombing abortion clinics and killing abortion doctors. The reality is that a majority of simple Christians haven't fully looked into the bible, yet the common atheist has. Not saying this leads to atheism, but it's pretty embarrassing when an atheist knows more of the holy book that the christian goes by.

"I come not to bring peace but a sword" did not mean Jesus wanted His disciples to go out and kill nonbelievers. That is not even close to what Jesus meant. He meant that His disciples would often have to choose between the approval of their family/friends and their walk with God.
It is true, by the way, that Paul commanded women to be silent in church. What exactly does that mean, exactly? Well, it means that men are the ones to hold authority in the church. Old fashioned, but it is still true.

So jesus would have a problem with women pastors and strong female figures? Remember some of the apostle Paul's stuff is opinionated. There's a verse that says he personally thinks that if somebody can't marry, it's best they stay single. This isn't a command, but an opinion of Paul.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/1/2014 2:26:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
According to the dictionary definition of "militance", it can be defined as "having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause". Such as "a militant political activist".

So one can clearly see that an individual/group does not have to partake in actual "military" action in order to be described as "militant".

The term would constitute anyone who is aggressive or extreme in opinions and causes (whether political, religious, etc.).

As for your other comments, about militant Jews equating Israeli's--because of not including words such as "some" or expounding on your comment you imply that all Israeli's are militant or affiliated with the military.

Which is certainly not the case. Israel had a diverse culture with a number of non-Jews living in the country.

Moreover, you actually get Arabs in the IDF too.
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