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What You Dislike About Religion

Mirza
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11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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11/1/2014 1:08:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

I think you have elucidated quite eloquently what there is about religion to dislike.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?
Never fart near dog
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/1/2014 5:48:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.

Sure, but start from the beginning, if you believe and trust unknown authors why wasting time anyway? next step is examining the Quran for your claim that really i can be true that one guy can made up a religion called islam?
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/1/2014 5:49:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 5:48:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.

Sure, but start from the beginning, if you believe and trust unknown authors why wasting time anyway? next step is examining the Quran for your claim that really i can be true that one guy can made up a religion called islam?

it can be true that one guy could made...
Never fart near dog
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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11/1/2014 5:54:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 5:48:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.

Sure, but start from the beginning, if you believe and trust unknown authors why wasting time anyway? next step is examining the Quran for your claim that really i can be true that one guy can made up a religion called islam?

Unknown authors. What do you mean by that? The Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew. The Gospel of Mark was written by Mark. The Gospel of Luke was written by Luke. The Gospel of John was written by John. And the other books of the New Testament were written either by Paul, Peter, or John.
And yes, it is possible that one guy made up Islam. Muhammad (pbuh) did. One could argue the same goes with Christianity, but at least many of the things Jesus did were backed up by OT prophecies. Can the same be said about Muhammad (pbuh)?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
carriead20
Posts: 1,394
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11/1/2014 6:22:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't like any religion because one according to carbon dating the universe is 13.8 billion years old while most religions say the universe is only 6,000 years old. Another reason I don't like religion is man created religions so he can enslave other men and not feel bad because he is doing it in the name of his "god". He also committed genocide against others if they didn't believe in his god (e.g. The Crusades).
To all the people fighting a hard battle out there - life's giving you a pretty hard beating. There's no sugarcoating that, but there's no shadow that's free of light. When life sneers at you and asks, "Ready to go again?" - Raise your hand. Reach out to victory. Don't give in.

---Help Bsh and YYW see each other---
http://www.gofundme.com...
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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11/1/2014 6:47:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 6:22:12 PM, carriead20 wrote:
I don't like any religion because one according to carbon dating the universe is 13.8 billion years old while most religions say the universe is only 6,000 years old. Another reason I don't like religion is man created religions so he can enslave other men and not feel bad because he is doing it in the name of his "god". He also committed genocide against others if they didn't believe in his god (e.g. The Crusades).

Just a slight correction. The age of the universe is not established through carbon dating. Carbon dating only applies to organic material up to 50,000 years old. Otherwise you are doing fine. Carry on. :-)
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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11/1/2014 6:50:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 1:08:26 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

I think you have elucidated quite eloquently what there is about religion to dislike.

Earning brownie points with the forum ambassadors again, bulproof? :-)
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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11/1/2014 6:52:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 5:54:43 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:48:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.

Sure, but start from the beginning, if you believe and trust unknown authors why wasting time anyway? next step is examining the Quran for your claim that really i can be true that one guy can made up a religion called islam?

Unknown authors. What do you mean by that? The Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew. The Gospel of Mark was written by Mark. The Gospel of Luke was written by Luke. The Gospel of John was written by John. And the other books of the New Testament were written either by Paul, Peter, or John.
And yes, it is possible that one guy made up Islam. Muhammad (pbuh) did. One could argue the same goes with Christianity, but at least many of the things Jesus did were backed up by OT prophecies. Can the same be said about Muhammad (pbuh)?

i dont making it up saying unknown authors, christain scholars telling you that why i should work hard to prove it. its scholarship not just words in air. academics telling you that. only fundamentalists believe (tradition) the authors of the books are the real authors. we dont know who was Mattew/John/Luke/Mark. how where when they worte whatever they worte and they werent disciples of Jesus (pbuh). even If you open the bible its written there "the gospel according to john/mattew/mark/luke". you know what means "according to"? they telling you in simple language that we (christain printers) dont believe so that these authors are the real ones. if you write something you would put there "by" not "according to" its 3 person telling you what somebody says or write.
reseaech the authorship books in the Bible. check Bart Ehrman, his lectures or debates with christain debaters (which admitting of the unknown authors) like James White or Craig Evans. http://en.wikipedia.org...

About the OT prophecies, what do you mean by prophecies? writing (by somebody we dont know) a story that comfirming the OT makes a prophecy? through i believe in Jesus (pbuh) also its not an evidence to argue, if you give prophecy about something specific which did happen after Jesus (pbuh) it would be something. we have also prophecies in the Quran and Hadiths, but first examine its preservation, if its corrupted by time, it waste of time believing something which changed.
Never fart near dog
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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11/1/2014 7:09:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 6:22:12 PM, carriead20 wrote:

I don't like any religion because one according to carbon dating the universe is 13.8 billion years old while most religions say the universe is only 6,000 years old.

Correction:
*Some* theists who follow *some* particular religions say that the universe is 6000 years old.

Another reason I don't like religion is man created religions so he can enslave other men and not feel bad because he is doing it in the name of his "god".

Correction:
Man created religion to explain natural phenomena and feel a connection to the world around him. People using religion for the purposes of gaining power and such became common practice only after social stratification in human societies occurred, which was many millions of years after they evolved the cognitive functions which allowed for religion.

He also committed genocide against others if they didn't believe in his god (e.g. The Crusades).

Correction:
The Crusades were primarily motivated by the political goals of the Catholic Church and Byzantine Emperor. And it can hardly be considered a genocide, seeing that the crusaders ended up losing... Please name a real genocide which was actually carried out for religious reasons.

You're welcome.
carriead20
Posts: 1,394
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11/1/2014 7:42:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and a$s, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21
"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon." Joshua 10:40-41
"To kill the big rats, you have to kill the little rats." A statement justifying the mass murder of innocent Tutsi children, infants, and newborns. It was made by a political commentator on Radio Mille Collines in Rwanda, just before the 1994 genocide, perpetrated by many Hutus.

Recent genocides:

According to the Article II of the United Nation's Genocide Convention of 1948 (UNCG), the term "genocide" means a major action "committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:" "...Killing members of the group" is one action which qualifies under the Convention. 3

A very few conservative Christians have called for the U.S. government to mount a genocidal campaign against minority groups. They have primarily targeted homosexuals and Wiccans. However, most North Americans find it difficult to conceive of an activity that is more horrific and reprehensible than genocide.

During the 20th century, there have been many mass murders of people groups. Most were motivated to a significant degree by religious beliefs. In chronological order some of them were:

The deaths of unknown millions Congolese, starting in 1885 and continuing into the 20th century, while the Congo Free State (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo) was controlled by King Leopold II of Belgium. It was a regime of widespread forced labor, mass murder, mutilation and torture.
The massacre of the Armenian Christians by the Turks during 1915 & 1916.. Although the government of Turkey denies that this actually happened, the evidence of the genocide is overwhelming.
The artificial Ukrainian famine of the 1930s, perpetrated by the communist government of the USSR.
The highly organized extermination of about 11 million persons by the Nazi government of Germany, including six million Jews, millions of Poles, and 400,000 Roma, during World War II. There are Holocaust deniers who say that it never happened. Again, the evidence is overwhelming that the Holocaust happened.
The genocide of Muslims, Roma, Serbian Orthodox and others by the Usta"a -- a Roman-Catholic/Fascist regime) which controlled Croatia from 1941 to 1945.
The avoidable "Great Bengal Famine" of 1943, which was under British control at the time. This almost forgotten, needless holocaust killed about four million humans.
The destruction of over one million of the Cambodian intelligentsia and others by the Khmer Rouge Communists in the mid 1970s.
The genocide of the Roman Catholics in East Timor by the Muslim government of Indonesia from 1975 to 1999. About one in three Catholics in the country were exterminated.
The genocide of hundreds of thousands of people, mainly Muslims, primarily by Serbian Orthodox Christians in Bosnia-Herzegovina during the 1990s.
The genocide of Christians and Animists by the Muslim government of Sudan. This program continues today, although it does appear to be slowing down.
The 1994 genocide of about 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus in Rwanda.
Many of these mass murders and crimes against humanity were sufficiently serious to qualify as genocides.
To all the people fighting a hard battle out there - life's giving you a pretty hard beating. There's no sugarcoating that, but there's no shadow that's free of light. When life sneers at you and asks, "Ready to go again?" - Raise your hand. Reach out to victory. Don't give in.

---Help Bsh and YYW see each other---
http://www.gofundme.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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11/1/2014 8:48:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 6:50:20 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 1:08:26 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

I think you have elucidated quite eloquently what there is about religion to dislike.

Earning brownie points with the forum ambassadors again, bulproof? :-)

Hey! If anybody needs 'em it's gotta be me. ;-)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/2/2014 11:43:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 6:22:12 PM, carriead20 wrote:
I don't like any religion because one according to carbon dating the universe is 13.8 billion years old while most religions say the universe is only 6,000 years old. Another reason I don't like religion is man created religions so he can enslave other men and not feel bad because he is doing it in the name of his "god". He also committed genocide against others if they didn't believe in his god (e.g. The Crusades).
I must apprise you of the errors you have made: None of the Abrahamic religions certify the claim that the universe is that young. You can, unquestionably, attempt to draw such a conclusion from a selected amount of verses from some of the texts, but, fortunately, that would be easily dismissed as untrue. There are surely people who do hold the belief that the universe is as young as you put it, but these are not representative of the majority. In the case of Islam, neither the scriptures nor its followers have a say over the age of the world, apart from what can be concluded though scientific observation and analysis. Concerning the approval of slavery and other crimes, keep in mind that what any person does in the name of his religion does not suggest that the religion itself either honours and permits the act, nor that other of its followers approve. I appreciate your input on the effects of erroneous religious convictions, but should you have an opinion on theological issues, you are welcome to place your comment.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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11/2/2014 12:30:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The level of certainty and dogmatism. That so many seem to place little to no epistemic distance between themselves and God.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/2/2014 12:52:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:30:52 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The level of certainty and dogmatism. That so many seem to place little to no epistemic distance between themselves and God.
Interesting. Why do you think there needs to be such a distance?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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11/2/2014 12:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My two greatest dislikes;

1. The lack of honesty
2. The lack of concern for truth
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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11/2/2014 1:26:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 5:54:43 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:48:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 5:40:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:41:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

i really dislike people who believe in stuff that were written by anonimous authors.. like the bible, we dont know who wrote them, how when and where, because it was uncontrolled transmission everyone had the chance to add things or delete. because it claims to be Word of God (i dont know how even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.) you have to believe it without little investigation?

Meanwhile, Islam was started by one guy, who could've made the whole religion up.

Sure, but start from the beginning, if you believe and trust unknown authors why wasting time anyway? next step is examining the Quran for your claim that really i can be true that one guy can made up a religion called islam?

Unknown authors. What do you mean by that? The Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.
No it wasn't. Even study bibles are starting to include that point. ALL of the canonical gospels were anonymous writings. Church fathers assigned authorships. (And they were wrong on all four.)

The Gospel of Mark was written by Mark.
Wrong again. It was anonymous. The true author is thought to have been an unknown Roman convert to Christianity. The text makes it clear that the author was not Jewish, and had never been a member of the Jewish faith.

The Gospel of Luke was written by Luke.
No, and if you read the first four verses, it tells you that the author wasn't writing from personal knowledge, but taking the information from others.

The Gospel of John was written by John.
And again, that it not true. It contains information copied from "The Gospel of Mark", as well as information taken from "Jewish War" and "Antiquity of the Jews" which were both written by Flavius Josephus, and completed in 93CE.

And the other books of the New Testament were written either by Paul, Peter, or John.
Do some research. Scholars routinely agree that 6 or 7 of the 13 writings attributed to Paul, were actually written by Paul. As for Peter, sorry; wrong again.

And yes, it is possible that one guy made up Islam. Muhammad (pbuh) did. One could argue the same goes with Christianity, but at least many of the things Jesus did were backed up by OT prophecies. Can the same be said about Muhammad (pbuh)?
The truth here is that the New Testament was written using the Old Testament prophecies, and filled with stories which were manufactured to fulfill those prophecies. Want evidence for that? Take a look at Matthew 21:2 "Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an a-s-s tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me."

This is part of a story written to fulfill the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9. But there is a problem when on compares them.
(Zechariah 9:9) "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an a-s-s, and upon a colt the foal of an a-s-s."

In the description of the donkey you'll notice a Hebrew parallelism. The donkey is first mentioned, then further described in a second phrase. But in "Matthew", he has Jesus asking for two donkeys, not one. If we research the texts available when "Matthew" was written we find the Greek Septuagint, which was a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. And the Greek Septuagint made an error in translation, and shows the new king riding two donkeys in Zechariah 9:9. So the author of "Matthew" (who wrote in Greek), obtained his view of the prophecy from the Greek Septuagint, and therefore has his fictional Jesus character ask for two donkeys, rather than one.

So it wasn't an eye-witness account, and it didn't really happen. The author of "Matthew" simply believed that the prophecy had been fulfilled by Jesus, and wrote his story to fit his understanding of the prophecy. The other three gospel authors all have Jesus asking for just one donkey. These authors weren't writing accounts. They were writing stories.

Sorry to have to put in hyphens for "a-s-s" but the site's stupid profanity filter won't allow scripture.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
jodybirdy
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11/2/2014 3:30:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

For me religion is an establishment that has placed its own existence and power before its true cause. Misrepresentation for profit and power is the only thing that comes to my mind.

In my view it doesn't matter what God is worshiped, because the lowest common denominator is always the same. What I dislike about religion is that it isn't a way of life, but a set of instructions that tends to contradict itself when practiced. We see many examples of that here. It exists for the soul purpose of control. We all know what is moral and what is true, even in the absence of the religious enterprise.

So, what I dislike about religion is that it is no different than any other incorporated body that sells something. And the self proclaimed ambassadors of these religions are often ill equipped for their self appointed positions. What sickens me most about it is that they are selling salvation and immortality. You can't sell happiness or serenity because its free to everyone whether or not there is an afterlife or a God. It is one of the greatest cons in history.

Does this make sense? -- God gave us the gift of life to appreciate and grow, but I must spend that life worshiping him for the gift rather than using it for its intended purpose. -- To me this is one of the biggest contradictions.

No matter how pure a philosophy is, someone is going to capitalize on it. The truth is that the most valuable things in life are free. However, people have been programmed to believe that even love and happiness comes with a cost and a conditional, "what's in it for me".
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
popculturepooka
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11/2/2014 4:31:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:52:31 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/2/2014 12:30:52 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The level of certainty and dogmatism. That so many seem to place little to no epistemic distance between themselves and God.
Interesting. Why do you think there needs to be such a distance?

Because, for example, when you question someone's interpretation or understanding of a religious text and the equate that with questioning the very words of God him/herself.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/2/2014 7:57:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

Isaiah 40
28: Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Isaiah 44
6: Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Isaiah 45
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Most Christians do not understand that there's only ONE Creator who acted alone. They need a physical looking god to worship which they call Jesus who was only a saint of the Lord's who testified to the invisible Word of God where we all exist.
Mirza
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11/4/2014 11:47:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 4:31:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Because, for example, when you question someone's interpretation or understanding of a religious text and the equate that with questioning the very words of God him/herself.
I agree with that. It's annoying and irrational, not to mention extremely ignorant. What's mostly irritating is the fact that those who consider a part of scripture literal are not aware that even interpreting what literal even means is something necessary.
Mirza
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11/4/2014 11:56:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 3:30:16 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
What I dislike about religion is that it isn't a way of life, but a set of instructions that tends to contradict itself when practiced.
If it is a set of instructions on how to live your life, then it is a way of life. That an individual does not oblige himself to depart from contradictory means of living and practising the religion does not invalidate the purpose of religion in terms of one's moral duties.

We see many examples of that here. It exists for the soul purpose of control.
Where, and what kind? Do you, nevertheless, believe that the core individuals of some religions, such as Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] of Islam, purposely wished to increase control and dominance over an individual, or that it is an aftereffect of their true and honest intention with spreading the message of their religion?

We all know what is moral and what is true, even in the absence of the religious enterprise.
Partially true. However, what is considered moral and not is very often seen from a perspective of what benefits the masses. If you consider that to be a real display of moral realism, then you are correct. Since I consider morality to be objective, I must sincerely disagree with that view.

Does this make sense? -- God gave us the gift of life to appreciate and grow, but I must spend that life worshiping him for the gift rather than using it for its intended purpose. -- To me this is one of the biggest contradictions.
What is the intended purpose of life? I believe you are not completely aware of what worship entails. To worship God is to pray to Him, but many other things as well. To follow His command is worship. When you offer works of charity in His name, you are doing a part of worship. I see no contradiction here.
Cryo
Posts: 202
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11/4/2014 2:24:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What I dislike about religion is that it shifts a person's moral compass. It makes someone care more about their invisible friend than the real people around them.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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11/4/2014 2:32:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 11:56:23 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/2/2014 3:30:16 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
What I dislike about religion is that it isn't a way of life, but a set of instructions that tends to contradict itself when practiced.
If it is a set of instructions on how to live your life, then it is a way of life. That an individual does not oblige himself to depart from contradictory means of living and practising the religion does not invalidate the purpose of religion in terms of one's moral duties.

We see many examples of that here. It exists for the soul purpose of control.
Where, and what kind? Do you, nevertheless, believe that the core individuals of some religions, such as Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] of Islam, purposely wished to increase control and dominance over an individual, or that it is an aftereffect of their true and honest intention with spreading the message of their religion?

We all know what is moral and what is true, even in the absence of the religious enterprise.
Partially true. However, what is considered moral and not is very often seen from a perspective of what benefits the masses. If you consider that to be a real display of moral realism, then you are correct. Since I consider morality to be objective, I must sincerely disagree with that view.

Does this make sense? -- God gave us the gift of life to appreciate and grow, but I must spend that life worshiping him for the gift rather than using it for its intended purpose. -- To me this is one of the biggest contradictions.
What is the intended purpose of life? I believe you are not completely aware of what worship entails. To worship God is to pray to Him, but many other things as well. To follow His command is worship. When you offer works of charity in His name, you are doing a part of worship. I see no contradiction here.

I am not discounting the wisdom spoken by who are considered the greatest prophets. I object to what has been done with their words. How they have been twisted and used by religious enterprise for profit and control.

Worship comes in many forms, yes. Showing appreciation for the beauty and the gift of life and giving of yourself to the needy are ways to do so. There is in my interpretation no requirement to advertise that you are doing it to please God or Allah. That changes the intent from selfless to a selfish gain to earn "approval". It is not glorifying God/Allah unless the true intent is pure.

Faith and religion are different things. Open worship is demonstration. The only thing that matters is that it is done with pure intent and not one for personal gain or to demonstrate that one is more worthy of salvation than the person standing next to them. It is a private duty and a personal journey.

These are just a handful my thoughts and my reasons for the conclusion that I have come to. If you want to demonstrate that you appreciate the gift of life to please God then you must do so through your actions and remember that a gift is intended to use for its purpose and it displeases the giver if you set it aside and never use it for its intended purpose.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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11/4/2014 3:12:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 11:47:26 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/2/2014 4:31:06 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Because, for example, when you question someone's interpretation or understanding of a religious text and the equate that with questioning the very words of God him/herself.
I agree with that. It's annoying and irrational, not to mention extremely ignorant. What's mostly irritating is the fact that those who consider a part of scripture literal are not aware that even interpreting what literal even means is something necessary.

yeah. Pretty much.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/4/2014 3:46:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
jodybirdy, I agree with a large fraction of your comment. It is, however, important to make apparent that one's intents very so often come to display in the matter of actions. To suggest that if one participates in works of charity to demonstrate his faith rather than by doing so thorough purely good intent undermines the very fact that displaying the intent is not wrong in this case, so long as it is truly present. One may go to the mosque or church to please others, but if one intents to worship God, but feels happy that he can put that at display as well, then I certainly don't find this to be indicative of lack of faith or intent.
SamStevens
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11/4/2014 4:04:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 12:30:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
Forget your religious convictions for a moment, and try to answer the following question: What is it, concerning the major theistic religions, that you dislike the most, but are open to being informed about? Do not include your own religion.

For myself, I mostly dislike about Christianity the fact that it is overly open to interpretation, and, even more, the concept of trinity. With regard to interpretations, it is certainly not easy to establish what the true message of a scripture is, even when resorting to a literal interpretation. That itself, too, still involves interpreting a text. Christianity, however, seems to be overly ambiguous apart from core teachings. If one reads the Bible, it seems obvious that the duty of a believer is to pray and do good deeds, as well as many other things that one should do, and abstain from, that Christians very widely ignore. Yet, Christianity in its modern shape has distracted from this.

The trinity is problematic for a couple of reasons, and they do not have to be logical reasons for me to find it so. I mostly take issue with what the Bible says concerning Jesus, and I have certainly not found very authentic texts that make the trinity seem like an established part of being a true Christian.

One problem I have with religion is that it claims to know information about the universe with out a single shred of evidence. It arrogantly claims that it is the right religion, it has the right information about how people came to be, that it has the right god, and whatnot.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."