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I Attended a Scientology Service!

GeoLaureate8
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4/26/2010 12:31:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
For my Philosophy of World Religions class, I had to choose a "religious institution/community that I am neither a member of nor are familiar with" and talk with their leadership and attend a formal service.

So today, I got a tour of the place and attended their Sunday Service. It is very high tech inside with a lot of plasma screen monitors teaching their tenets. The staff/ministry their were also very nice. One of them let me and my girlfriend have a short auditing session with the E-Meter (detects electro-dermal response in psychoanalytics that indicates mental stress) as well. Apparently I was very mentally stable because it took the guy about 15 questions before the E-Meter would even budge (brought up a question about a recently dead relative).

The Sunday Service was quite shocking to be honest. Pre-Service, a guest singer came in and sang the Circle of Life. They then started off the sermon by reading the Creed from a Scientology book by Hubbard that looked like a Bible. Then after reading a passage from the book, they transitioned to a group counseling session. This was the weird part. It was one of the many Hubbard "processes" (group counsel sessions) and it was called something akin to "Awareness training" that involved us becoming aware of our surroundings.

We were commanded to feel the chair, point to the walls, examine different spots on a wall, touch different body parts (ok, that doesn't sound right, lol. it was head, elbow, shoulders, etc.), stand up and stare at our chair, etc. This was stuff that I actually welcomed as I have come to understand the importance of and become acquainted with inanimate objects, so that was a plus.

At the end, they showed us to the court/lounge area where they had free food and drinks. It was healthy (they focus on detoxifying and stuff), yet good food.

Overall, it was great experience and they didn't take any of my money (lol). One thing I think they should do is take out God from their tenets, even though they never mentioned or focused on him really. They probably need to include God to attract members, especially in the West, otherwise no one would probably bother. (The video on their website was hilarious because they were talking about how they allow people of all religions into their church, and showed a Muslim in full attire, probably straight out of the Middle East, sitting there. LOL, yeah right!)

*By the way, Thetans are not a bunch of little aliens inside you, a Thetan is another word they use for Soul/Self.

(I'm probably going to copy and paste this post into Word and submit it as my Reflective Paper for class. :P)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/26/2010 12:42:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:31:53 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
*By the way, Thetans are not a bunch of little aliens inside you, a Thetan is another word they use for Soul/Self.

Both actually. Thetans are believed to be long lived essences that *have* lived elsewhere i.e. alien souls.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/26/2010 12:43:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
And just when I thought you could not get any wierder!

But seriously, sounds interesting. I'd probably go to such an event myself. Do you consider that their teachings actually have any value though?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/26/2010 12:44:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:42:50 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:31:53 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
*By the way, Thetans are not a bunch of little aliens inside you, a Thetan is another word they use for Soul/Self.

Both actually. Thetans are believed to be long lived essences that *have* lived elsewhere i.e. alien souls.

But aren't you your soul?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 12:44:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:42:50 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:31:53 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
*By the way, Thetans are not a bunch of little aliens inside you, a Thetan is another word they use for Soul/Self.

Both actually. Thetans are believed to be long lived essences that *have* lived elsewhere i.e. alien souls.

Yes, actually. They believe in reincarnation and these "souls" have incarnated in bodies on Earth and elsewhere.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 12:45:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:44:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:42:50 AM, Puck wrote:
Both actually. Thetans are believed to be long lived essences that *have* lived elsewhere i.e. alien souls.

But aren't you your soul?

The body is a shell.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/26/2010 12:46:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:45:17 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:44:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:42:50 AM, Puck wrote:
Both actually. Thetans are believed to be long lived essences that *have* lived elsewhere i.e. alien souls.

But aren't you your soul?

The body is a shell.

That is sort of what I meant.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Puck
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4/26/2010 12:46:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
And yeah, they have become a polished Christianised like organisation "the urge toward existence as infinity, as God or the Supreme Being or Author of the Universe." Just look at their symbol. :P
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 12:49:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

"All is manifestation of the universal spirit, which is all that actually exists. " - http://www.beliefnet.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/26/2010 12:51:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"The eighth dynamic is the urge toward existence as INFINITY. The eighth dynamic also is commonly called God, the Supreme Being or Creator, but it is correctly defined as infinity. It actually embraces the allness of all. That is why, according to L. Ron Hubbard, "when the seventh dynamic is reached in its entirety one will only then discover the true eighth dynamic.""
GeoLaureate8
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4/26/2010 12:55:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:43:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
And just when I thought you could not get any wierder!

But seriously, sounds interesting. I'd probably go to such an event myself. Do you consider that their teachings actually have any value though?

Honestly, I think that it's primarily a rehabilitation religion as well as a self-improvement (mental, physical, even business) religion. The theology kind of takes a backseat. I'm not sure if they believe the sci-fi stuff, or if they actually just acknowledge it as just one of Hubbard's sci-fi writings. In fact, if you look at their official website describing their beliefs, there's no mention of aliens (except reincarnation that occurs all over the universe).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/26/2010 12:56:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.

Because atheism ends with non belief in god? :P Spinoza never denied a personal relationship was possible with god - just that god was of the interdependant infinite in all things, that god must be nature.
GeoLaureate8
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4/26/2010 12:57:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.

Well, Panentheism is a bit different than Pantheism. Spinoza (often mistaken as a Pantheist) is actually a Panentheist which believes that everything is "in" God or an "extention" of God.

Pantheism is Atheism. Or as Richard Dawkins says "Pantheism is sexed up Atheism."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/26/2010 12:57:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:55:01 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:43:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
And just when I thought you could not get any wierder!

But seriously, sounds interesting. I'd probably go to such an event myself. Do you consider that their teachings actually have any value though?

Honestly, I think that it's primarily a rehabilitation religion as well as a self-improvement (mental, physical, even business) religion. The theology kind of takes a backseat. I'm not sure if they believe the sci-fi stuff, or if they actually just acknowledge it as just one of Hubbard's sci-fi writings. In fact, if you look at their official website describing their beliefs, there's no mention of aliens (except reincarnation that occurs all over the universe).

I don't personally trust it, it is either a religion or a self-help/improvement program that charges. I don't like the idea of it being both, but it does seem to have a lot of happy members.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 1:04:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:57:52 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't personally trust it, it is either a religion or a self-help/improvement program that charges. I don't like the idea of it being both, but it does seem to have a lot of happy members.

Yeah, I actually was very skeptical about it myself (I thought it was just another religion used as a tool of the Illuminati conspiracy, though some aspects of it might just like all the other religions).

As far as charges, it actually accepts donations instead. It doesn't have weekly Sunday collections.

However, I would imagine that the price ain't cheap for their Purification programs or Psycho-therapy sessions. That's a bit of a turn off.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/26/2010 1:40:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 1:04:34 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:57:52 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I don't personally trust it, it is either a religion or a self-help/improvement program that charges. I don't like the idea of it being both, but it does seem to have a lot of happy members.

Yeah, I actually was very skeptical about it myself (I thought it was just another religion used as a tool of the Illuminati conspiracy, though some aspects of it might just like all the other religions).

As far as charges, it actually accepts donations instead. It doesn't have weekly Sunday collections.

However, I would imagine that the price ain't cheap for their Purification programs or Psycho-therapy sessions. That's a bit of a turn off.

So Scientologists aren't really as crazy as everybody thinks?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 1:44:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 1:40:34 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
So Scientologists aren't really as crazy as everybody thinks?

Nope. From what I could tell, just friendly people and interesting practices.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/26/2010 1:45:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 1:44:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/26/2010 1:40:34 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
So Scientologists aren't really as crazy as everybody thinks?

Nope. From what I could tell, just friendly people and interesting practices.

Next you should visit a mosque. :P
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/26/2010 1:46:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 1:45:08 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/26/2010 1:44:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Nope. From what I could tell, just friendly people and interesting practices.

Next you should visit a mosque. :P

Yeah, there's a few mosques down here in Vegas actually.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/26/2010 1:50:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 1:46:23 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/26/2010 1:45:08 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/26/2010 1:44:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Nope. From what I could tell, just friendly people and interesting practices.

Next you should visit a mosque. :P

Yeah, there's a few mosques down here in Vegas actually.

There's none where I am. :( The closest one is almost two hours away.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/26/2010 3:19:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 12:56:06 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.

Because atheism ends with non belief in god? :P Spinoza never denied a personal relationship was possible with god - just that god was of the interdependant infinite in all things, that god must be nature.

Spinoza's God is the whole universe, and it is also impersonal non-sentient. The atheist universe is the whole universe and is also non-sentient.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Puck
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4/26/2010 4:42:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 3:19:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:56:06 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.

Because atheism ends with non belief in god? :P Spinoza never denied a personal relationship was possible with god - just that god was of the interdependant infinite in all things, that god must be nature.

Spinoza's God is the whole universe, and it is also impersonal non-sentient. The atheist universe is the whole universe and is also non-sentient.

"From the necessity of the divine nature there must follow infinitely many things in infinitely many modes, (i.e., everything that can fall under an infinite intellect)".

Spinoza is definitely positing a 'god' model - god is both uncaused an infinite. That it is inseperable from the universe doesn't change that it is actually his god. That it is decidedly a non monotheistic model, no argument there. It's deterministic, there is no god based intent.

"By God I understand a being absolutely infinite, i.e., a substance consisting of an infinity of attributes, of which each one expresses an eternal and infinite essence."
Cerebral_Narcissist
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4/26/2010 5:40:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/26/2010 4:42:04 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 3:19:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:56:06 AM, Puck wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:49:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/26/2010 12:47:38 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Update: I just found out that their God is the Panentheist God. i.e. Spinoza's God

I do struggle to understand how spinoza's God is any different from atheism.

Because atheism ends with non belief in god? :P Spinoza never denied a personal relationship was possible with god - just that god was of the interdependant infinite in all things, that god must be nature.

Spinoza's God is the whole universe, and it is also impersonal non-sentient. The atheist universe is the whole universe and is also non-sentient.

"From the necessity of the divine nature there must follow infinitely many things in infinitely many modes, (i.e., everything that can fall under an infinite intellect)".

Spinoza is definitely positing a 'god' model - god is both uncaused an infinite. That it is inseperable from the universe doesn't change that it is actually his god. That it is decidedly a non monotheistic model, no argument there. It's deterministic, there is no god based intent.

"By God I understand a being absolutely infinite, i.e., a substance consisting of an infinity of attributes, of which each one expresses an eternal and infinite essence."

So what is the difference between that and
"By reality I understand a concept absolutely infinite, i.e., a substance consisting of an infinity of attributes, of which each one expresses an eternal and infinite essence."
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.