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A Proposed Religion (for a novel)

Vox_Veritas
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11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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11/1/2014 7:24:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.

Any thoughts on the idea itself?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/1/2014 7:40:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:24:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.

Any thoughts on the idea itself?

The basic premise as the foundation for a religion is fine. You might have to flesh it out a little. Think about the sorts of questions a skeptic might ask.

What is the explanation for the 1st universe?

Why does the 1st god-universe need/want a 2nd?

If it could create universes (somehow), why only one?

Why isn't there more life in this 2nd universe?

Not much appeal to those who live and die prior to unification. Afterlife, resurrection?

Potential for war between rival god-universes?

Etc.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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11/1/2014 7:50:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:40:15 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:24:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.

Any thoughts on the idea itself?

The basic premise as the foundation for a religion is fine. You might have to flesh it out a little. Think about the sorts of questions a skeptic might ask.

What is the explanation for the 1st universe?

It had a scientific explanation. Whatever it is an atheist would say is the cause of this Universe.

Why does the 1st god-universe need/want a 2nd?

To continue to expand. Not as itself, but as something new formed from the unity of the two Universes. And whatever it forms plans on creating more universes so that a new, even greater entity springs from the union each time.

If it could create universes (somehow), why only one?

Why isn't there more life in this 2nd universe?

I fail to see how this is relevant. In this religion, life formed through evolution and abiogenesis and all that jazz.

Not much appeal to those who live and die prior to unification. Afterlife, resurrection?

Nope. However, the matter that makes up you will live on in the God that is formed.

Potential for war between rival god-universes?

The point is giving up oneself to form something greater. This is what both Universes would do, and there's no telling how many Universes have already done this.

Etc.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/1/2014 8:10:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 7:50:58 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:40:15 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:24:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.

Any thoughts on the idea itself?

The basic premise as the foundation for a religion is fine. You might have to flesh it out a little. Think about the sorts of questions a skeptic might ask.

What is the explanation for the 1st universe?

It had a scientific explanation. Whatever it is an atheist would say is the cause of this Universe.

So you have two universes with two entirely different explanations. A skeptic would jump on that.

Why does the 1st god-universe need/want a 2nd?

To continue to expand. Not as itself, but as something new formed from the unity of the two Universes. And whatever it forms plans on creating more universes so that a new, even greater entity springs from the union each time.

This sounds very wishy-washy. I suggest you think on it further. You aren't talking about the normal concept of a god if it can expand and merge.

If it could create universes (somehow), why only one?

Why isn't there more life in this 2nd universe?

I fail to see how this is relevant. In this religion, life formed through evolution and abiogenesis and all that jazz.

Yes, but if this 2nd universe was created for a specific purpose, so that all life would evolve and unify to replicate the feat of the 1st, why not maximise the amount of life and do things efficiently? Instead, we have a universe in which life appears to be an accident and from all indications is extremely rare. You need to explain this.

Not much appeal to those who live and die prior to unification. Afterlife, resurrection?

Nope. However, the matter that makes up you will live on in the God that is formed.

Not much of a consolation. You may be struggling for believers. :-)

Potential for war between rival god-universes?

The point is giving up oneself to form something greater. This is what both Universes would do, and there's no telling how many Universes have already done this.

Would do? Why? Once you create an independent entity, you've lost control.

Etc.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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11/1/2014 8:34:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 8:10:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:50:58 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:40:15 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:24:04 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:17:16 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:08:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 7:07:39 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/1/2014 6:59:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In the sci-fi story I'm currently writing there is an alien species. The "breed" (comparable to a race) that rules over this species follows the following religion:

They believe that long ago, in a Universe that existed before this one, all life unified into one entity, which converted all matter in the Universe to part of itself and became the Universe, all that existed. In having been absorbed into this entity, the Universe became a living entity. In a sense, the unified Universe became God.
That living Universe created a new Universe, which is this one. It desires for all life within this Universe to do the same that it did, to have all matter in the Universe become unified under one Supreme Maximally Complex Consciousness and become the second God, which shall be with the first. This religion would provide a set of codes a rules which, if followed by all lifeforms, would allow the Universe to achieve this unified consciousness.
In real life, the idea of all matter unifying under one consciousness, by the way, is known as the "Omega Point". I simply envisioned a religion from this idea.

What do you think of this idea?

Be careful. This is how scientology started. :-)

What do you mean?

The founder (inventor) was a science-fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard. His motive basically was to get rich quick. It worked.

Any thoughts on the idea itself?

The basic premise as the foundation for a religion is fine. You might have to flesh it out a little. Think about the sorts of questions a skeptic might ask.

What is the explanation for the 1st universe?

It had a scientific explanation. Whatever it is an atheist would say is the cause of this Universe.

So you have two universes with two entirely different explanations. A skeptic would jump on that.

All that the First God would provide for the second universe would be the "First Cause". That and causing the matter that it consists of to exist. That's it.

Why does the 1st god-universe need/want a 2nd?

To continue to expand. Not as itself, but as something new formed from the unity of the two Universes. And whatever it forms plans on creating more universes so that a new, even greater entity springs from the union each time.

This sounds very wishy-washy. I suggest you think on it further. You aren't talking about the normal concept of a god if it can expand and merge.

The two Gods die and form an even greater God. It goes on eternally.

If it could create universes (somehow), why only one?

Others would be out there as well.

Why isn't there more life in this 2nd universe?

I fail to see how this is relevant. In this religion, life formed through evolution and abiogenesis and all that jazz.

Yes, but if this 2nd universe was created for a specific purpose, so that all life would evolve and unify to replicate the feat of the 1st, why not maximise the amount of life and do things efficiently? Instead, we have a universe in which life appears to be an accident and from all indications is extremely rare. You need to explain this.

If you maximized life instead of simply having one sentient species, that life might resist absorption. The fact is, a single sentient species that creates the entity is the best way to do this. However, the God of the first Universe would simply create the second Universe without any specific design plan (other than perhaps the ordered laws of physics), allow life to form by itself, and communicate through prophets with whatever sentient life forms as a result.

Not much appeal to those who live and die prior to unification. Afterlife, resurrection?

Nope. However, the matter that makes up you will live on in the God that is formed.

Not much of a consolation. You may be struggling for believers. :-)

As it offers no hope for a life to come outside of a vague "your essence will be part of God", then you may be right. Then again, aren't there already existing religions that believe something like this and still have plenty of followers?

Potential for war between rival god-universes?

The point is giving up oneself to form something greater. This is what both Universes would do, and there's no telling how many Universes have already done this.

Would do? Why? Once you create an independent entity, you've lost control.

The two Gods will realize that selfishly holding on to their own consciousness is pointless and that something greater can be formed only if they merge.

Etc.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/1/2014 10:02:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Excuse me for saying so, but I don't like where this is going. You asked for ideas and I gave you some input. Instead of taking it on board, you seem dead set on defending your original concept. It seems to me that you are not open to any form of critical evaluation of your 'sci-fi' plot device. As such, why would I be interested in trying to help you hone your thoughts? You don't appear grateful, just defensive. I have better things to do with my time than find flaws in a pretend religion.
Vox_Veritas
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11/2/2014 12:40:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 10:02:52 PM, dee-em wrote:
Excuse me for saying so, but I don't like where this is going. You asked for ideas and I gave you some input. Instead of taking it on board, you seem dead set on defending your original concept. It seems to me that you are not open to any form of critical evaluation of your 'sci-fi' plot device. As such, why would I be interested in trying to help you hone your thoughts? You don't appear grateful, just defensive. I have better things to do with my time than find flaws in a pretend religion.

I am grateful for your input. I'm simply criticizing your criticism. As this is a fictional religion, I can assure you that I am not offended by what you have said in this thread. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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11/2/2014 3:01:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:40:11 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 10:02:52 PM, dee-em wrote:
Excuse me for saying so, but I don't like where this is going. You asked for ideas and I gave you some input. Instead of taking it on board, you seem dead set on defending your original concept. It seems to me that you are not open to any form of critical evaluation of your 'sci-fi' plot device. As such, why would I be interested in trying to help you hone your thoughts? You don't appear grateful, just defensive. I have better things to do with my time than find flaws in a pretend religion.

I am grateful for your input. I'm simply criticizing your criticism. As this is a fictional religion, I can assure you that I am not offended by what you have said in this thread. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Well, maybe I misread you. I apologise for being curt. I hope you got something out of our exchange. Good luck with your novel.