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Catholicism is not Christian

LifeMeansGodIsGood
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11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/3/2014 7:57:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
tldr
Without catholicism you wouldn't have your particular flavour of christianity.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/3/2014 2:39:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?

Then what is Christian?
Karmanator
Posts: 142
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11/3/2014 3:05:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost.
So how come the apostles could not manage to keep the "true" church going and it fell right away and had to be resurrected again?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/3/2014 5:05:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 3:05:02 PM, Karmanator wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost.
So how come the apostles could not manage to keep the "true" church going and it fell right away and had to be resurrected again?

I don't know what you are talking about, because it's obvious you do not know what you are talking about
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/3/2014 5:08:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:57:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
tldr
Without catholicism you wouldn't have your particular flavour of christianity.

You don't know what it means to be a christian. The people who first called disciples of Jesus Christ "christians" did not know what it meant to be a christian, but they knew the disciples were following the teachings of Jesus. That is not what makes a person a christian. Catholics are not Christians

how come you can't say more than five words at a time and you never say anything with any kind of rationale?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/3/2014 5:09:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 2:39:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?

Then what is Christian?

why do you ask? I explained it in the post. Are you not reading?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/3/2014 5:10:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:57:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
tldr
Without catholicism you wouldn't have your particular flavour of christianity.

You don't know what you are talking about.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/3/2014 5:40:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 3:05:02 PM, Karmanator wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost.
So how come the apostles could not manage to keep the "true" church going and it fell right away and had to be resurrected again?

The church didn't fall away during the lifetimes of the apostles. But to answer your question, the falling away occurred because men either desired or accepted whatever prestige there was in leadership of a congregation. The false distinction between a bishop and an elder (presybter) was the first step.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Karmanator
Posts: 142
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11/3/2014 5:59:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 5:40:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 3:05:02 PM, Karmanator wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost.
So how come the apostles could not manage to keep the "true" church going and it fell right away and had to be resurrected again?

The church didn't fall away during the lifetimes of the apostles. But to answer your question, the falling away occurred because men either desired or accepted whatever prestige there was in leadership of a congregation. The false distinction between a bishop and an elder (presybter) was the first step.
So like the op said, the apostles started it but like your saying, it ended. It didnt start again uncorrupted?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/3/2014 6:06:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 5:59:39 PM, Karmanator wrote:
At 11/3/2014 5:40:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 3:05:02 PM, Karmanator wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost.
So how come the apostles could not manage to keep the "true" church going and it fell right away and had to be resurrected again?

The church didn't fall away during the lifetimes of the apostles. But to answer your question, the falling away occurred because men either desired or accepted whatever prestige there was in leadership of a congregation. The false distinction between a bishop and an elder (presybter) was the first step.

So like the op said, the apostles started it but like your saying, it ended. It didnt start again uncorrupted?

One could restore it to the NT example at any time. I didn't say it never started again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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11/3/2014 6:55:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 5:09:47 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 11/3/2014 2:39:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?

Then what is Christian?

why do you ask? I explained it in the post. Are you not reading?

So you believe a man is saved by faith and that his actions don't affect his salvation.
Cryo
Posts: 202
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11/3/2014 7:35:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
People are always going around saying that they're the "true" Christians and all other denominations are false.

When most people say "Christian", what they're really referring to is Protestant. Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox are all Christians.

You all worship Yahweh, believe in Jesus and consider the Bible to be holy scripture. You're all Christians.
Beastt
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11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/3/2014 8:17:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?

No Christian or Catholic understand this prophecy in Daniel;

36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

The feet of iron and clay is a symbolic phrase that means Christianity. From both Catholicism and the Protestant churches, ruling governments were involved to protect them while they went out to the world to teach God's people how to build false gods ( buildings built with human hands ).

The mark of the beast on the forehead and hands is a phrase God uses to show that He puts thoughts in the mind of His people who don't know Him to teach them how to build things with their hands ( false gods ).

It was very important for God to have these false gods built so He can use them in His analogies to teach us saints about the end of age destruction of all His illusions and how He created us within His invisible thoughts. But it took the modern technology we have today to teach us exactly how He created us.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/3/2014 8:19:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
P.S. There's no such thing as true history taught by God's lying people who have no idea who they are in Him.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/4/2014 1:15:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 8:17:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I have had two or three debates on this subject with Catholics, and of course the Catholics and non-christians who are not Catholics vote against me and I lose those debates. Atheists get it right when they point out the fact the the Catholic church was instituted as a political organization which was used by governments attempting to steer religion into a means of strengthening their control as the rulers try to maintain the powers they enjoy over their domains. Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself, and that having believed on His resurrection as the Son of God who conquered death, and having admitted you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, and having received Jesus Christ personally as your Savoiur by calling on God in Jesus's name to save you, He has entered in to rule your heart by giving you a new heart born of the Spirit of God. Being a christian is knowing that you are a child of God and heaven is your home and your sins are forgiven and you have eternal life now with no need of purchasing incense or paying pennances or performing rosary prayers. This is not protestantism. Protestantism began when some Catholics, Martin Luther at the front, began to see in the Bible God's promises of eternal life which are not dependant on any sinner-man priest or Pope, and only founded on the blood of Jesus Christ which satisfied God as full payment for our sins. The true church of Jesus Christ began when He breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Gost. True believers are born of the Spirt of God through faith in His atoning work on the cross and knowledge of His resurrecttion which gaurantees the forgiveness of their sins as an act of God alone. The disciples of Jesus Christ were known and recognized as the leaders of the early true church, they were the apostles along with the apostle Paul who was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to replace Judas Isacariot. The written accounts of the gospels were kept, passed along, and protected by God at the cost of the blood of many saints (not catholic saints, true saints who were born of God's Spirit, Jesus Christ living in the believers). Secular history which ignores true church history is puporsely misleading as it attmepts to keep people away from the freedom Jesus promises through knowing God personally. John the Apostle, whom God used to pen the Revelation of Jesus Christ after he was boiled in oil as execution for refusing to stop preaching the gospel (good news from God) of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, had as his closest disciple Polycarp. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos after the "boil in oil" execution failed to kill him and by law he could not be subjected to another executionary punishement. John was the only apostle who was not tortured to death or executed for His faith. There is nothing that could have stopped the spread of the gospel throughout the world, and nothing will stop it from continuing to go forth. There are missionaries now in communist countries who spread the gospel in underground churches under threat of tortuous persection, and they are not Russian orthodox catholics who are tolerated and even endorsed by the communists. They are true saints who know God personally and spread the gospel in obedience to the Lord's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Modern education is doing a terrible disservice in america today with it's well orchestrated campain of disinformation.

There is enough in this post that any thinking person should reconsider the brainwashing they have been fed through falsified history perpetrated as "education"

You have to dig a little to get the true story of history. True history is what really happened and cannot be changed. Your person history is everything you have ever said, done, thought, or imagined and it all counts and is on your account of how your time was used as historical fact. God will examine all of our personal histories personally in the final Judgemetn. Will your wrongdoings be covered by the blood of Jesus Chrst or will you stand before God naked and try to cover yourself with lame excuses?

No Christian or Catholic understand this prophecy in Daniel;

'Course not! Nobody has a grip on ANY prophesy except a delusional schizophrenic who bums his daily sustenance off of the very groups he condemns. That makes a lot of sense! You don't need a Bible, Brad. You need to write one.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/4/2014 2:22:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.

Oh. Well, I put together a book containing MacBeth, Hamlet, and The Merchant of Venice. Therefore the writings of Shakespeare are the production of ... ME!

No, you are fully admitting that not a single NT book was of Catholic origin. What's more, in case you bring it up, you might as well go ahead and admit that the non-canonical writings of the 1st and 2nd centuries aren't Roman Catholic productions, either. So the best you have to offer is that someone, or some group of men, put together the gospels. Very well. That was done by 175 AD or so. So the Roman Catholics didn't do that, did they? Same goes for Acts. The vast majority of the rest of the NT books were never questioned.

It seems that you are the one playing upon a strawman. The only people around who think that the Catholics gave us the Bible are .... Roman Catholics and a few ignorant atheists. Nobody else falls for it.

39 canonical OT books ---> nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Nobody claims otherwise.
4 gospel accounts ----> accepted as canonical before there was any R. Catholic Church
1 book of Acts ----> never doubted by any Christian, accepted by all
8 of the Pauline epistles ---> never questioned by anyone, Catholic of not
1 book of 1 Peter ---> unquestioned by anyone

Let's see. that's 53/66, or 80% of the Bible, that was accepted by anyone and everyone who professed Christianity long before there was any Roman Catholic Church. THAT is your idea of "the Catholic Church handed us 'the Bible'."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/4/2014 6:31:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 2:22:29 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.

Oh. Well, I put together a book containing MacBeth, Hamlet, and The Merchant of Venice. Therefore the writings of Shakespeare are the production of ... ME!

No, you are fully admitting that not a single NT book was of Catholic origin.
Actually I'm telling you that all of the NT books are the result of the Catholics collecting and canonising them from the thousands of documents they had to choose from.
What's more, in case you bring it up, you might as well go ahead and admit that the non-canonical writings of the 1st and 2nd centuries aren't Roman Catholic productions, either.
See above.
So the best you have to offer is that someone, or some group of men, put together the gospels.
What is it about the english language you don't understand? They produced a group of books including what they claim and you believe are gospels allegedly written by apostles, you have their word for it only.
Very well. That was done by 175 AD or so. So the Roman Catholics didn't do that, did they? Same goes for Acts. The vast majority of the rest of the NT books were never questioned.
You don't read history any better than you read english.
It seems that you are the one playing upon a strawman. The only people around who think that the Catholics gave us the Bible are .... Roman Catholics and a few ignorant atheists. Nobody else falls for it.
You obviously have documentation supporting the existence of other christian religions existing since the time of the alleged jesus, I look forward to your evidence.
39 canonical OT books ---> nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Nobody claims otherwise.
Meaningless...............the Bible is under discussion and who created it.
4 gospel accounts ----> accepted as canonical before there was any R. Catholic Church
Provide evidence that they were accepted as canonical before the 4th century.
1 book of Acts ----> never doubted by any Christian, accepted by all
Wow.........the indoctrination worked...............big deal.
8 of the Pauline epistles ---> never questioned by anyone, Catholic of not
Wow............all of the letters were believed true for thousands of years, so none of them were ever questioned until science became involved. The Catholics chose the documents they wanted, the documents that supported the religion they were creating. Your problem is that your religion is the bastard offspring of Catholicism.
1 book of 1 Peter ---> unquestioned by anyone
For now. What of the other books of "peter" that the Catholics canonised?
Let's see. that's 53/66, or 80% of the Bible, that was accepted by anyone and everyone who professed Christianity long before there was any Roman Catholic Church. THAT is your idea of "the Catholic Church handed us 'the Bible'."
You proved nothing at all, but I'll give you E for effort.
LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/4/2014 6:40:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:31:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 2:22:29 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.

Oh. Well, I put together a book containing MacBeth, Hamlet, and The Merchant of Venice. Therefore the writings of Shakespeare are the production of ... ME!

No, you are fully admitting that not a single NT book was of Catholic origin.
Actually I'm telling you that all of the NT books are the result of the Catholics collecting and canonising them from the thousands of documents they had to choose from.
What's more, in case you bring it up, you might as well go ahead and admit that the non-canonical writings of the 1st and 2nd centuries aren't Roman Catholic productions, either.
See above.
So the best you have to offer is that someone, or some group of men, put together the gospels.
What is it about the english language you don't understand? They produced a group of books including what they claim and you believe are gospels allegedly written by apostles, you have their word for it only.
Very well. That was done by 175 AD or so. So the Roman Catholics didn't do that, did they? Same goes for Acts. The vast majority of the rest of the NT books were never questioned.
You don't read history any better than you read english.
It seems that you are the one playing upon a strawman. The only people around who think that the Catholics gave us the Bible are .... Roman Catholics and a few ignorant atheists. Nobody else falls for it.
You obviously have documentation supporting the existence of other christian religions existing since the time of the alleged jesus, I look forward to your evidence.
39 canonical OT books ---> nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Nobody claims otherwise.
Meaningless...............the Bible is under discussion and who created it.
4 gospel accounts ----> accepted as canonical before there was any R. Catholic Church
Provide evidence that they were accepted as canonical before the 4th century.

Tatian's Diatesseron, circa 180, a harmony of the four gospels.

Of course, your position (of necessity, not of fact) will ... mark it down ... be that NOTHING was "canonical" before the 4th century. I suspect you'll make a play on the word "canonical", therefore. You might be above it, but I doubt it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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11/4/2014 6:54:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:40:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:31:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 2:22:29 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.

Oh. Well, I put together a book containing MacBeth, Hamlet, and The Merchant of Venice. Therefore the writings of Shakespeare are the production of ... ME!

No, you are fully admitting that not a single NT book was of Catholic origin.
Actually I'm telling you that all of the NT books are the result of the Catholics collecting and canonising them from the thousands of documents they had to choose from.
What's more, in case you bring it up, you might as well go ahead and admit that the non-canonical writings of the 1st and 2nd centuries aren't Roman Catholic productions, either.
See above.
So the best you have to offer is that someone, or some group of men, put together the gospels.
What is it about the english language you don't understand? They produced a group of books including what they claim and you believe are gospels allegedly written by apostles, you have their word for it only.
Very well. That was done by 175 AD or so. So the Roman Catholics didn't do that, did they? Same goes for Acts. The vast majority of the rest of the NT books were never questioned.
You don't read history any better than you read english.
It seems that you are the one playing upon a strawman. The only people around who think that the Catholics gave us the Bible are .... Roman Catholics and a few ignorant atheists. Nobody else falls for it.
You obviously have documentation supporting the existence of other christian religions existing since the time of the alleged jesus, I look forward to your evidence.
39 canonical OT books ---> nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Nobody claims otherwise.
Meaningless...............the Bible is under discussion and who created it.
4 gospel accounts ----> accepted as canonical before there was any R. Catholic Church
Provide evidence that they were accepted as canonical before the 4th century.

Tatian's Diatesseron, circa 180, a harmony of the four gospels.

Of course, your position (of necessity, not of fact) will ... mark it down ... be that NOTHING was "canonical" before the 4th century. I suspect you'll make a play on the word "canonical", therefore. You might be above it, but I doubt it.

You were the one who claimed that some of your books were canonical in 175, I guess you want to run away from that claim now?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/4/2014 7:12:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 6:54:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:40:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 6:31:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 2:22:29 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:49:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:31:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/4/2014 1:24:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:54:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 8:05:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:58:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:55:13 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 11/3/2014 7:45:01 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Being a christian is knowing your sins have been paid for by God Himself

... the equivalent of God taking $50 bucks out of his own wallet, and then putting it right back into his wallet.

But more on topic: Christianity encompasses many denominations and Catholicism is a Christian denomination.

It depends upon whether one is following the Bible, or allowing for common usages of the word "denomination". If you stick to the Bible, I challenge anyone to locate ONE "Christian denomination".

The bible is a Catholic production, what makes someone following it a christian.

Exactly which book of the Bible is a "Catholic production"? I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.
I know you don't like it, but that's what it is.
Get over it and tell us what makes the bible the be all and end all for christianity, given it's method of creation.

I'm afraid that's not what I asked, is it? Don't act like MadCornish's little brother. Read the question, calmly answer it, and move on.

"I'll make it easier since the Catholic Church had nothing to do with 60% of the Bible in the first place: which NT book was a "Catholic production"?

You have 27 choices. Don't ramble around about "collecting" them together.

I answered and as I said you don't like the answer that doesn't mean anything to me. Your strawman is not an argument I'm making.
If you wish to join the discussion then join it rather than attempting dig up a rabbit of your own creation.

The collection of books called The Bible is a creation of the Catholics.

Oh. Well, I put together a book containing MacBeth, Hamlet, and The Merchant of Venice. Therefore the writings of Shakespeare are the production of ... ME!

No, you are fully admitting that not a single NT book was of Catholic origin.
Actually I'm telling you that all of the NT books are the result of the Catholics collecting and canonising them from the thousands of documents they had to choose from.
What's more, in case you bring it up, you might as well go ahead and admit that the non-canonical writings of the 1st and 2nd centuries aren't Roman Catholic productions, either.
See above.
So the best you have to offer is that someone, or some group of men, put together the gospels.
What is it about the english language you don't understand? They produced a group of books including what they claim and you believe are gospels allegedly written by apostles, you have their word for it only.
Very well. That was done by 175 AD or so. So the Roman Catholics didn't do that, did they? Same goes for Acts. The vast majority of the rest of the NT books were never questioned.
You don't read history any better than you read english.
It seems that you are the one playing upon a strawman. The only people around who think that the Catholics gave us the Bible are .... Roman Catholics and a few ignorant atheists. Nobody else falls for it.
You obviously have documentation supporting the existence of other christian religions existing since the time of the alleged jesus, I look forward to your evidence.
39 canonical OT books ---> nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Nobody claims otherwise.
Meaningless...............the Bible is under discussion and who created it.
4 gospel accounts ----> accepted as canonical before there was any R. Catholic Church
Provide evidence that they were accepted as canonical before the 4th century.

Tatian's Diatesseron, circa 180, a harmony of the four gospels.

Of course, your position (of necessity, not of fact) will ... mark it down ... be that NOTHING was "canonical" before the 4th century. I suspect you'll make a play on the word "canonical", therefore. You might be above it, but I doubt it.

You were the one who claimed that some of your books were canonical in 175, I guess you want to run away from that claim now?

Of course not. By "canonical", I mean widely accepted with little or no dissent, widely read in the churches, etc.

I just said, "I suspect you'll make a play on the word 'canonical', therefore. You might be above it, but I doubt it." The statement stands. This will probably be an outstanding example of why no discussions with you ever get anywhere.

To put it bluntly, by your reasoning and definitions, there could not possibly be an "official" canon (which you just call a "canon") in the absence of an "official" church.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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11/4/2014 7:25:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you are trying to make the little point that there was no "official" canon until there was an "official" politicoreligious church, why, I'd gladly concede that. I also concede that I could hardly care less.

I am after (1) widespread, well-nigh universal acceptance, (2) few or no dissenting voices, (3) commonly read/quoted/studied in church services, and (4) wide geographic coverage. About 85% of what is now the New Testament fit that category with or without any "Roman Catholic Church", hands down. The other 15% (basically four books) were debated. Make it 18% due to the Shepherd of Hermas.

So out of the whole Bible, you have about 8% which was debated/argued. At any rate, it's a ridiculous argument.

Did the Catholic Church give us the book of Matthew? Mark? Luke? John?
Did each of these books meet the four criteria above?
If so, it was already decided that the four gospels were Holy Scriptures long before the Roman Catholic Church ever developed.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."