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100% proof Jesus is not God!

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/27/2010 10:05:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I thought this was kind of interesting. I always love to see religious people use reason to repudiate each other's unfounded and mutually exclusive views about the nature of reality. Of course, I have no dog in this fight.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

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belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/27/2010 12:59:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
meh. presumes that the concept of the trinity is coherent. not sure how applicable it is to anything. lol
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/27/2010 1:22:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:20:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
3 out of 4 of the gospels do not claim Jesus is God.
None of them do. From the first of them to the last, Jesus (peace be upon him) seems to be more and more than a human being. Throughout years, people started thinking of him being more and more than a human, and today almost every Christian believes that he is God, and worship him.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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4/27/2010 1:32:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:22:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:20:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
3 out of 4 of the gospels do not claim Jesus is God.
None of them do.

Actually, the Book of John contradicts the other three in multiple instances. Here is one such instance:

John 10:30 NLT
"The Father and I are one"

The other three only claim that he is the "Son of God".
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/27/2010 1:52:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:32:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Actually, the Book of John contradicts the other three in multiple instances. Here is one such instance:

John 10:30 NLT
"The Father and I are one"

The other three only claim that he is the "Son of God".
John 10:30 should be read in context. If not, then read the following verse:

[John 17:21] "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

The same word for 'one' is used in both the verse I cited, and John 10:30. The word is 'hen'. If being 'one' means one being, then all the 12 disciples of Jesus were also one with Jesus and God, meaning we have 14 gods, or they are all part of God, just like Jesus is supposed to be?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/27/2010 1:54:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think part of the problem could perhaps be mistranslations of the Bible as there's certain things in languages that can't really be directly translated.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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4/27/2010 1:58:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:32:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:22:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:20:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
3 out of 4 of the gospels do not claim Jesus is God.
None of them do.

Actually, the Book of John contradicts the other three in multiple instances. Here is one such instance:

John 10:30 NLT
"The Father and I are one"

The other three only claim that he is the "Son of God".

Not so easy with John. He treats Jesus as the personification of The Word of God.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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4/27/2010 2:03:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:52:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:32:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Actually, the Book of John contradicts the other three in multiple instances. Here is one such instance:

John 10:30 NLT
"The Father and I are one"

The other three only claim that he is the "Son of God".
John 10:30 should be read in context. If not, then read the following verse:

[John 17:21] "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

The same word for 'one' is used in both the verse I cited, and John 10:30. The word is 'hen'. If being 'one' means one being, then all the 12 disciples of Jesus were also one with Jesus and God, meaning we have 14 gods, or they are all part of God, just like Jesus is supposed to be?

I didn't know that. Adding that to my Unitarian arsenal.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/27/2010 2:05:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 2:03:18 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I didn't know that. Adding that to my Unitarian arsenal.
I will come with more responses in the thread I made. It will hopefully explain everything.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/27/2010 2:17:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 1:32:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:22:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/27/2010 1:20:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
3 out of 4 of the gospels do not claim Jesus is God.
None of them do.

Actually, the Book of John contradicts the other three in multiple instances. Here is one such instance:

John 10:30 NLT
"The Father and I are one"

False. If you read the following lines of that passage, he goes onto say that we are all Gods in John 10:34.

I find it hilarious that the only verse that Christians can find that shows Jesus calling himself God, is the same verse that he says we are all Gods.
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random123
Posts: 2
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5/2/2010 5:59:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
1 John 5:20 "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).< reference to the trinity

John 10:30, "I and the Father are one."

Colosians The Supremacy of Christ
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

John 1:1 says that "the Word was God." John 1:14 says that "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

***** There is Plenty More verses if you would like more.

The Bible is CLEAR that Jesus is God in the flesh. You either accept Jesus as Savior or think him a liar.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/2/2010 7:00:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Doctrine of the trinity is taken as a premise upon which faith is built. It is not an argument that can be broken apart and questioned.

No different from the way mathematics depends on the axioms A = A or A + 0 = A in order to function.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/2/2010 7:05:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Jesus is God.
http://www.Debate.org...

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/3/2010 2:32:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
To begin with, the 'Alpha and Omega' is from a book that is totally flawed according to Christian scholars themselves. It predicts something that has already happened, for instance.

Moving on, I do not see where Jesus (peace be upon him) himself says 'I am God', but I see some authors say something. However, if an author says someone is 'Lord' or 'God', then a mountain, Satan, and many other things are also gods? Because surely there are numerous verses calling a mountain 'Lord', calling Satan God, and so forth. I will disprove this fallacious belief in my own thread.

To end with, just because Jesus says 'I am in God' or 'God and I are one' does not mean that they are one as a being. Read my own thread, I have proved that Jesus told his disciples that he, they, and God are all one, so we have 14 gods with that analogy. Moreover, I have also proved that Jesus also said that he is in his followers/disciples, they in him, and Jesus in God. Something with that logic. So we have a mountain who is God, Jesus who is God, 12 disciples who are gods, Satan who is God, and so forth?

How logical. Besides, copy-pasting is not much of use in this case. It would be better if the verses were copy-pasted in the right context.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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5/3/2010 8:31:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sorry, but from the scriptures that were read out, not once did it say Jesus was tempted, I've watched the video and it doesn't say that he was, Just because it says that he was taken to be, doesn't mean he was
random123
Posts: 2
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5/3/2010 8:36:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was merely trying to correct you on the fact that the Bible states cleary that there is a trinity, and that Jesus came to save. Whether you belive it or not is your choice. I can not argue what is faith based and what is belief. I can not prove to you that there is a God, or that Jesus is Savior. It based on Faith and on the written Word.
The Bible, however, is CLEAR about Jesus so stop trying to conform what the it says to fit your own beliefs.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/5/2010 3:41:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/27/2010 10:05:04 AM, Freeman wrote:
I thought this was kind of interesting. I always love to see religious people use reason to repudiate each other's unfounded and mutually exclusive views about the nature of reality. Of course, I have no dog in this fight.



OK, Here the term 'tempted' is being used in two quite separate ways;

1) God cannot be tempted.. in the sense that God's nature does not change.
2) satan tempted Jesus.. in the sense that, despite Jesus (being God) does not change, satan none the less tried to tempt Him.

Imagine a guy in a baseball game who suddenly loses the use of his arms..
We may say; " He cannot strike.. pitching at him is a futile exercise! "
BUT the pitcher can still pitch despite this.

Jesus IS God, He was EXPLICIT:

John 12:44-46 (New International Version)

44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
The Cross.. the Cross.